Respect for all - Page 12

jillio · 02-18-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

They do have the right to free education but if all deaf schools are going oral because of CIs. Where do the CI failures goes to??? Where do the kids whose parents can't afford CI or has no insurance, can go to??? Isn't there a school that is like public and the deaf board could use it???

I understand where you are coming from, and there should be an alternative like that available for students.

jillio · 02-18-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

It doesn't have to be. I was recentlytold that in sweden, the holy land of bi-bi education, they had a situation some years ago where the numbers of students in bi-bi schools became so small they almost shut down schools, and perhaps did shut down a few. But it's now on the rise as never before.

I also heard from more than one source through years, that in Japan, they ditched CI as the new hope a decade ago. Those countries have historically proved to be 5-20 years ahead of other countries in several areas.

Don't want to give false hopes, but somehow I am not that worried.

It is on the rise in Sweden because they now have some longitudinal data to work with regarding CI implanted students. The CI was not the panacea that it was believed it was going to be. They have discovered, through logitudinal data on these students, that oral only, despite the miracle claims of CI, was not accomplishing educational goals. The U.S. has the same data available, the the hard core oralists are refusing to see it, and when it is pointed out, those bringing it to their attention are called anti-CI.

**shel90** · 02-18-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallee

I agree you don't want a division between students. How is your program set up? Who decides the programs related to your school? Also do you have to have certification in Deaf Ed to teach at a School of the Deaf?

Our program is BiBi..we teach using the public school curriculm and all the classes are set up using the public school model with the exception of speech classes for those who benefit from spoken language in the afternoons. We teach all content areas using ASL and written English. A few months ago, I was on a theme that covered different culture and languages and I taught my students few words in Spanish, French and Italian. Our students arent being denied anything...they have access to language at all times, during social, academic, and after school programs.

In the state of MD, one needs a certification in Deaf Ed meaning one needs a degree in Deaf Ed. That was why I got my master's cuz I didnt know that special ed didnt qualify me to teach Deaf ed.

**shel90** · 02-18-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It is on the rise in Sweden because they now have some longitudinal data to work with regarding CI implanted students. The CI was not the panacea that it was believed it was going to be. They have discovered, through logitudinal data on these students, that oral only, despite the miracle claims of CI, was not accomplishing educational goals. The U.S. has the same data available, the the hard core oralists are refusing to see it, and when it is pointed out, those bringing it to their attention are called anti-CI.

I want to move to Sweden!

**shel90** · 02-18-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

It doesn't have to be. I was recentlytold that in sweden, the holy land of bi-bi education, they had a situation some years ago where the numbers of students in bi-bi schools became so small they almost shut down schools, and perhaps did shut down a few. But it's now on the rise as never before.

I also heard from more than one source through years, that in Japan, they ditched CI as the new hope a decade ago. Those countries have historically proved to be 5-20 years ahead of other countries in several areas.

Don't want to give false hopes, but somehow I am not that worried.

What do u mean in Japan, they ditched the CI? U mean they ditched the oral-only programs?

flip · 02-18-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What do u mean in Japan, they ditched the CI? U mean they ditched the oral-only programs?

No, the interest and awe around the CI itself have faded, and implants are on the decrease, peaking a decade ago. I was told some japaneses shake their head when told about the hot debates on CI in europe and the states, like "wow, they STILL talking about CI?". I don't know about the education system in Japan, but the deaf japaneses and terps I have met had strong sign language skills, so guess there are TC/bi-bi programs in Japan.

jillio · 02-18-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

No, the interest and awe around the CI itself have faded, and implants are on the decrease, peaking a decade ago. I was told some japaneses shake their head when told about the hot debateis on CI in europe and the states, like "wow, they STILL talking about CI?". I don't know about the education system in Japan, but the deaf japaneses and terps I have met had strong sign language skills, so guess there are TC/bi-bi programs in Japan.

I wonder, if because all the hype started to fade regarding CI after awhile is the reason that the U.S. medical establishement has put such effort into advertsing and promotion recently. Anecdotal evidence didn't support the original claims, uncsuccessful cases started speaking out, parents had to back up and rethink their decisions to keep their children in oral only programs because the results were not panning out as predicted. Interest started to fade....so the medical community has renewed their efforts at promotion and started focusing on yoiunger and younger recipients to increase their patient base.

flip · 02-18-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I want to move to Sweden!

I once saw a tape from a school in sweden with a deaf imigrant teachers for deaf imigrants. Can't get more bi-bi, or do we call that tri-lingual tri-cultural?

SxyPorkie · 02-18-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Rick, can't you understand that almost NO ONE here is anti-CI? Most of us realize that it's a helpful thing for those kids who get very little to no benifit from HAs. I just don't understand why when those of us who aren't totally gung-ho for CI, express concerns about them, we're attacked and called "anti-CI"

RR had opened this thread wanting us to debate reasonably... Now you started all bullshit.. pinpointed to Rick.... YOU STOP IT.. NO MORE BASHING ON CERTAIN PERSONS..... DEBATE REASONABLE... NO MORE BIG WORDS YOU KNOW NOTHING... continue debating without bashing.. we want to debate in peace.. so shut up...

flip · 02-18-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I wonder, if because all the hype started to fade regarding CI after awhile is the reason that the U.S. medical establishement has put such effort into advertsing and promotion recently. Anecdotal evidence didn't support the original claims, uncsuccessful cases started speaking out, parents had to back up and rethink their decisions to keep their children in oral only programs because the results were not panning out as predicted. Interest started to fade....so the medical community has renewed their efforts at promotion and started focusing on yoiunger and younger recipients to increase their patient base.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Early implants seems to be the last selling point they have, if their marketing department not at the moment is figuring out new ways to continue the cash flow. Wonder what the next selling point then will be..

jillio · 02-18-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

I once saw a tape from a school in sweden with a deaf imigrant teachers for deaf imigrants. Can't get more bi-bi, or do we call that tri-lingual tri-cultural?

How about multi-lingual/multi-cultural? Whatever we call it, it shows great signs of progressivenenss.

jillio · 02-18-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Early implants seems to be the last selling point they have, if their marketing department not at the moment is figuring out new ways to continue the cash flow. Wonder what the next selling point then will be..

Intra-uteruran implantation?

flip · 02-18-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Intra-uteruran implantation?

Whatever that is, that sounds creative, let's hope advanced bionics don't read those threads

Hope that does not involve implanting babies before they are born?

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

The other option is for her to get a CI and improve her oral skills but not a good reason to get a CI. Besides she doesnt want one anyway.

Besides the school already employs oral deaf educators who, of course, are hearing.

Oral teachers of the deaf are not always hearing. I know many that range from a mild hearing loss to a profound hearing and of course they are hearing since they have teach deaf kids to be oral. And I as a parent of 2 deaf oral teenagers would prefer a teacher that had a hearing loss. My children have had teachers with hearing losses in the past.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallee

One of my fears of moving to anything state. My mom wants me to move home, I don't want to give up my tenure.

I guess it is worst in other states then here in California. It is very easy to get a tenure track teaching position if it is in special education. I know elementary it is not easy and in certain areas in high school it is easy like math and science but not history or english.

**shel90** · 02-18-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

Oral teachers of the deaf are not always hearing. I know many that range from a mild hearing loss to a profound hearing and of course they are hearing since they have teach deaf kids to be oral. And I as a parent of 2 deaf oral teenagers would prefer a teacher that had a hearing loss. My children have had teachers with hearing losses in the past.

I asked a parent here on AD (not going to name names) about a deaf teacher teaching his child and he said no way and another parent agreed.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

I do and I am sure that there are other Deaf people who feel the same way. Then I just thought of not enough of Deaf professionals. It is because of that paper that there should be deaf board and deaf school. Speech therapy can be included for CI kids if there are any $$ for it.

What if there are parents who can't afford CI like Hispanics and Native Americans??? That is why I want to know if there is a public like school that can be under the control of Deaf people.

But in the United States if a person wants a CI and does not have insurance they can get it through Medi-cal and they can get speech through Medi-cal if they want. This is only if they want a CI not they should all have it.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallee

Not every child can qualify for CI. It is not just not for everyone. It targets a small population. That is why I don't see deaf schools or bi bi programs going from schools. I hope not. Each targets only a part of the Deaf population. I see room for child's education needs being met.

Shel, does your school have any programs that include Oral Deaf? Could the two programs work together or are they so different that it would not work?

There is a great oral deaf school in the middle of CA that is trying to figure out how to have a TC and oral program together on the same campus. They are trying to figure out to do this with a local public school district.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

What a nightmare it would be for you if those laws was passed. Imagine, deaf people deciding themselves what is good for them... Scary!

As every responsible deaf person would do after meeting too many children deprived of language with wounds from oralism, you bet I do, and will do anything I am capable of to fight the oral terrorism you promote. Don't worry if you think I am just sitting and complaining.

Good for you and I am glad you are trying to change things. It is not scary for me.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SxyPorkie

RR had opened this thread wanting us to debate reasonably... Now you started all bullshit.. pinpointed to Rick.... YOU STOP IT.. NO MORE BASHING ON CERTAIN PERSONS..... DEBATE REASONABLE... NO MORE BIG WORDS YOU KNOW NOTHING... continue debating without bashing.. we want to debate in peace.. so shut up...

RIGHT ON, Great Post

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 08:21 PM

I thought that this thread was started by me to discuss respect for all and that RR open it again if we stick to the point and to the reasons that this thread was started in the first place. I think many of us should look at deafbaglel, I know I spelled it wrong. She stated her point which was different then mine but in a kind respectful manner. We should learn from her.

**Cheri** · 02-18-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I asked a parent here on AD (not going to name names) about a deaf teacher teaching his child and he said no way and another parent agreed.

That parent is entitle to his/her opinion, there's nothing wrong with that, because hearing teachers could be able to listen to their deaf child's voice if he/she are pronouncing the words correctly, maybe that was the reason.

jackiesolorzano · 02-18-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

That parent is entitle to his/her opinion, there's nothing wrong with that, because hearing teachers could be able to listen to their deaf child's voice if he/she are pronouncing the words correctly, maybe that was the reason.

You are right Cheri, different parents think differently. Since I am an oral teacher of deaf I was always able to help my kids with things they were not able to get or understand in school. So for me it was important that my children had role models like themselves in their lives because I knew if their teacher didn't catch something I would at home. But that is me. I can see where other parents want to make sure that their child's teacher was able to hear everything and catch mistakes. Different things work differently for different chidlren and families.

Buffalo · 02-18-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It is on the rise in Sweden because they now have some longitudinal data to work with regarding CI implanted students. The CI was not the panacea that it was believed it was going to be. They have discovered, through logitudinal data on these students, that oral only, despite the miracle claims of CI, was not accomplishing educational goals. The U.S. has the same data available, the the hard core oralists are refusing to see it, and when it is pointed out, those bringing it to their attention are called anti-CI.

Is there a link online for us to read on this?? Thanks!

deafbajagal · 02-18-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

Is there a link online for us to read on this?? Thanks!

Have you read the book titled Educating Deaf Children Bilingually: With Insights & Applications from Sweden and Denmark by Shawn N. Mahshie? I have no idea if it will include the research that Jillo is talking about - but I do know that I got goose bumps when I had read it! If you get bored and haven't read this one - go for it

. The style is boring but the context (the "meat") is interesting, at least that's my opinion.

Buffalo · 02-18-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

Have you read the book titled Educating Deaf Children Bilingually: With Insights & Applications from Sweden and Denmark by Shawn N. Mahshie? I have no idea if it will include the research that Jillo is talking about - but I do know that I got goose bumps when I had read it! If you get bored and haven't read this one - go for it

. The style is boring but the context (the "meat") is interesting, at least that's my opinion.

Could you please fill us on what the book says? Thanks!

The Amazon.com list those used books from $70 tp $90. I ain't rich and I got 15 books on my Amazon.com wish list and most of them are related to Deaf culture, etc.

**shel90** · 02-19-2008, 05:25 AM

Yes, Jillo I would like a link. Flip, I googled about Japan..couldnt find anything about it. Thanks!

**shel90** · 02-19-2008, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

Have you read the book titled Educating Deaf Children Bilingually: With Insights & Applications from Sweden and Denmark by Shawn N. Mahshie? I have no idea if it will include the research that Jillo is talking about - but I do know that I got goose bumps when I had read it! If you get bored and haven't read this one - go for it

. The style is boring but the context (the "meat") is interesting, at least that's my opinion.

I would love to read that book..thanks for sharing it!

**Kalista** · 02-19-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

That parent is entitle to his/her opinion, there's nothing wrong with that, because hearing teachers could be able to listen to their deaf child's voice if he/she are pronouncing the words correctly, maybe that was the reason.

My pronouce accurated " F-Y". Rest of other words, I could not speak. Isn't it strange?

**Kalista** · 02-19-2008, 07:28 AM

Educating Deaf Children Bilingually: With Insights & Applications from Sweden and Denmark by Shawn N. Mahshie

It gets me curious to read that book.

02-19-2008, 05:25 AM	#357 (permalink)
shel90 Audist are not welcome Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,504 Blog Entries: 3	Yes, Jillo I would like a link. Flip, I googled about Japan..couldnt find anything about it. Thanks! __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

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02-18-2008, 08:21 PM	#351 (permalink)
jackiesolorzano Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,012	I thought that this thread was started by me to discuss respect for all and that RR open it again if we stick to the point and to the reasons that this thread was started in the first place. I think many of us should look at deafbaglel, I know I spelled it wrong. She stated her point which was different then mine but in a kind respectful manner. We should learn from her.

02-19-2008, 07:28 AM	#360 (permalink)
Kalista Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 8,142	Educating Deaf Children Bilingually: With Insights & Applications from Sweden and Denmark by Shawn N. Mahshie It gets me curious to read that book.