Children who have been implanted are not going to be part of the deaf community?

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

- I don't see the question being rephrased so I could reply.

I did rephrased on post number 5, again you couldn't understand for the second time, I'll say this one more time...because I'm nicer than you ever will be to me.

"What do you say about those hearing parents who do not exposed their implanted child into the deaf world to meet with other deaf children, and not being able to learn and use sign language with their implanted child."

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Deaf members - and especially those who know ASL - get the different syntax. Easily.
Like you, for example, wasn't that you Shel who was able on occasion to translate posts which were written in ASL syntax into standard English for those who didn't understood them?



Fuzzy

Fuzzy, I've never pretended to be really fluent in ASL and I should point out that many d/Deaf did not learn ASL until after they became adults. So how could be ASL be a factor in their writings? Cheri has been pointing that out to you too.

It's very clear to most posters that English is my first langauge so ASL isn't a factor in my writing even though I'm weak in both spelling and puncuation.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Deaf members - and especially those who know ASL - get the different syntax. Easily.
Like you, for example, wasn't that you Shel who was able on occasion to translate posts which were written in ASL syntax into standard English for those who didn't understood them? I don't know about Rockdrummer and others, but jillio knows ASL so she could figure the question out. I don't know ASL, so I can't.


If I am not mistaken I was told to "ASK US, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND".
So I asked, and in return was called troll? How nice, how respectful. This is the deaf way of respecting others, right?
Another thing - I was accused of not caring of anybody's POV but mine own.
I don't see anybody's interested in learning MY POV here - I don't see the question being rephrased so I could reply.


Fuzzy

Due to having so much on my mind lately, I cant recall translating for anyone here on AD. Most of the member's writings are not following the syntax of ASL anyway.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Deaf members - and especially those who know ASL - get the different syntax. Easily.

I don't know about Rockdrummer and others, but jillio knows ASL so she could figure the question out. I don't know ASL, so I can't.

If you say this one more time about my grammar written, I swear may God help me, I would not be very kind to you at all. I've had it up here with you already. And I would not even care if I get banned for this either, because I've had enough of your drama.

[Audiofuzzy]

One don't have to be fluent to get the gist. And I don't know ASL none, period.

"What do you say about those hearing parents who do not exposed their implanted child into the deaf world to meet with other deaf children, and not being able to learn and use sign language with their implanted child."

Okay, now I get it. Thanks.

I would say it depends on situation. If you implanted your child early with CI, your priority is to achieve the best results from implanting because time matters very very much with learning to hear and speak.
There will always be time to join deaf community and learn ASL.

Those parents who does not implant their children but keep a deaf child from the deaf community and ASL - they should include that for the child as early as possible.

Fuzzy

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

actually you should ALWAYS care what and how you write because when you are not specific this is exactly what causes troubles among members.
I too think when you write just "hearing parents" you mean ALL parents, because this is what the standard English implies.


Fuzzy

No it isn't.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by shel90

Due to having so much on my mind lately, I cant recall translating for anyone here on AD. Most of the member's writings are not following the syntax of ASL anyway.

*noding*We only have a couple of posters that follow ASL syntax.

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by Cheri

If you say this one more time about my grammar written, I swear may God help me, I would not be very kind to you at all. I've had it up here with you already. And I would not even care if I get banned for this either, because I've had enough of your drama.

Cheri's post illustrates why it's best not to critize other d/Deaf's grammar - or for that matter hearing's people grammer as well. I belong to a forum that isnt' deaf related; one hearing man likes to nitpick other people's grammer and no one really likes that. It's rude and you have to consider that other people have feelings as well.

[deafdyke]

Hey the grammar here isn't too bad. Even a lot of oral kids have difficulty with expressing themselves though writing. ALL it is, is the fact that many deafies approach English as a SECOND language. Look at posts made by people who speak English as a second language. You'll see the exact same syntaxial and grammartical errors.

If you implanted your child early with CI, your priority is to achieve the best results from implanting because time matters very very much with learning to hear and speak.
There will always be time to join deaf community and learn ASL.

Yes, it's important for a kid to get good training in learning how to hear and speak................but what if the kid doesn't have a flair for speech? Then you've got a kid who is SEVERELY language delayed. All the pro oral advocates make it seem like ALL dhh kids speak the "Queen's English"......but if that's true then how come a lot of kids are still in speech therapy for language issues? How come oral kids aren't great at English?

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Yes, it's important for a kid to get good training in learning how to hear and speak................but what if the kid doesn't have a flair for speech? Then you've got a kid who is SEVERELY language delayed. All the pro oral advocates make it seem like ALL dhh kids speak the "Queen's English"......but if that's true then how come a lot of kids are still in speech therapy for language issues? How come oral kids aren't great at English?

Excellent point, DD.

Yes, I agree training is good for learning to hear and speak with CIs. I have seen too many kids who could hear and speak with HAs and even pass for hearing at first glance but had serious language problems hence why I favor Bi-Bi.

Based on my limited experince with both late deafened and those who were implanted young, the CI does help with sound perceptions but you still have to prevent language delays. From what I've seen of some late deafened - if not all of them - they do still need aids like captioning, relay (in some cases if not all cases) and other aids so this suggests to me there are still some gaps in sound perception with the implant. This implies that you still have to work to prevent language delays in very young children.

[Liebling:-)))]

Originally Posted by Tousi

Hey, hey, troll; all you had to do was read the great communication between Cheri and Rockdrummer so that you would not have to come here and goad people! The answer (Cheri/Rockdrummer) is right there BIG AS LIFE but, no, you just had to come in with your blunderbuss and make us all go several steps back instead of forward.

*A*M*E*N*

[Liebling:-)))]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I would like to hear deaf's views on how you feel about those hearing parents with the decision of implanted of their children. The futures of deaf children are being decided every day by people other than the children themselves

Here is my answer to your questions and add to share my opinion in your question #4 bit.

Question one:

experience little or no part of the deaf community that included sign language, exposed their implanted children to meet other deafs, from your experience and knowledge. How do you feel about that?

Very sad

I never forget how I feel for a first time after saw the "Fury & Sound" movie about Shelby and her hearing parents. I don't experience in real life like that and haven't meet anyone who pulled their deaf children to their own world. It could be that some hearing parents did to their deaf children like that here in Germany but I personally don't have any experience to collect from them in real life but learn from CI threads here and my friends who have deaf children in real life.

Question two:

Should parents must be aware of the choices in languages and not be swayed by opinions of so-called professionals in the field when making their decisions do you agree or don't agree?

Yes, the parents should be aware of ALL choices, not just languages. I find sad that some parents depend on professional's opinions over deaf people and their own real life experiences situation. I wish they open their mind and accept both sides between Expert's view and deaf people's experiences.

Question three:

Do you believe that cochlear implant is an individual choice, nor anyone's choice?

Yes, I beleive that it should be decision together between the parents and their child IF a child make a first move for want to have CI.

Question four:

Do you think the decision to get a cochlear implant should be no harder than deciding to buy glasses to correct a vision problem?

No, there're no comparison between glasses and CI because CI is a surgery which glasses, HA, prosthesis, etc doesn't because they do not require surgery.

I would like to share my opinion over that comparison with HA, prosthesis and glasses to CI since you brought the subject up over glasses, Cheri...

I can see that many parents think CI itself helps to improve the children to speak and hear which is not true because wear glasses, HA, prosthesis and CI itself doesn't mean to improve their see sight to see anything, ear to hear and speak anything, improve their own legs or arms... but HELP them to see, hear and walk because they want to hear, see and walk... That's all. If they want to learn to speak then need their parent's support, not CI and HA itself. I want to read the subtitles or anything then need glasses to help me to read better, not improvement.

Question five:

Do you think cochlear implants are unnecessary, oppressive, potentially harmful, particularly when forced upon minor children?

No, I don't think it's necassary to have CI surgery on babies/toddler because deaf is not a life-threating situation (like what Cheri answered). I beleive to wear HA on babies first until they familiar with the sounds and then they will make their own choice either they want to remain to have HA or decide for want to have CI and then have their parent's support instead of wait until they are 18 years old.

Question six:

Do you agree with those hearing parents who states that implanted children function and thrive better in a hearing word with the ability to hear and speak, Parents believes that in order to succeed, their child will have to be able to hear and speak.

No, I respectfully disagree on this. Each child is different. It depends on their own moviation. Its about their own moviation to learn anything and want to speak/hear anything...

My son told me that a person with CI and HA still have deaf voice... no matter either they speak like hearing or not. Interesting...

I am speechless and feel bit sad when my Dad told me last year that he would of implant on me with CI straight way because he wish to speak to my ear. It tells alot thru Forums that some hearing parents are interesting to focus their deaf child to hear and speak to be like them to neglect to learn where their child come from and also language skills/literacy skill as well... because they should hear and speak to be like them.

Question seven:

Do you think parents are obsessed over ability to hear is important to them instead of focus on the fact that their child is just a bit different from the parents?

Unfortunlately yes, see my answer above # 6.

Question eight

Do you believe that implanted children should exposed in both worlds not just one?

Yes of course because the children with CI are still deaf like us. It's same thing what I did with my hearing boys. I exposed both world because my boys are hearing.

[Audiofuzzy]

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Yes, it's important for a kid to get good training in learning how to hear and speak................but what if the kid doesn't have a flair for speech? Then you've got a kid who is SEVERELY language delayed. All the pro oral advocates make it seem like ALL dhh kids speak the "Queen's English"......but if that's true then how come a lot of kids are still in speech therapy for language issues? How come oral kids aren't great at English?

It is important to determine what is causing this language delay first.
Most often than not, it's a combination of different factors.
The time of implanting matters, the amount and quality of work spent of following therapy matters, the parent's dedication to work with their implanted child matters, even the parent's education matters - usually more, better educated parents have better understanding of what is at stake and work harder with their children.
In the case of children who received an implant too late for maximum benefits, it would be good to include ASL sooner than in the case of children who got implanted in just right time for having best benefits, and who are doing good.


Fuzzy

[CutePommie]

(syntax)

*Me believe Fuzzy sound like Cranky old lady*

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

It is important to determine what is causing this language delay first.
Most often than not, it's a combination of different factors.
The time of implanting matters, the amount and quality of work spent of following therapy matters, the parent's dedication to work with their implanted child matters, even the parent's education matters - usually more, better educated parents have better understanding of what is at stake and work harder with their children.
In the case of children who received an implant too late for maximum benefits, it would be good to include ASL sooner than in the case of children who got implanted in just right time for having best benefits, and who are doing good.


Fuzzy

You say that, "more often than not, it is combination of different factors." Care to explain exactly what you believe those factors to be? SES and parental education are not factos in language delays seen in deaf children. While these do have some effect on academic achievement in some children, hearing children included, they are not factors in laguage acquisition.

Children do not recieve implants too late to receive maximum benefit. Maximum benefit can be obtained at any point. Adults who are implanted at later age are able to achieve maximum benefit from their CIs, because the intended benefit of CI is to provide sound perception.
Maximum benefit for some early implantees does not include development of oral language, and maximum benefit for some late implatees does include oral language development. Maximum benefit is determined indiviual by individual, there is no generalized standard of maxium benefit. It is a subjective measurement.

Exactly what do you determine "just the right time" to be?

It is advisable to include ASL for any child with significant hearing loss, implanted or not. How do you resond to the recent research indicating that even implanted children test more closely to their hearing peers for language and literacy when they are exposed to both sign and speech?

Ant, BTW, it is "doing well", not "doing good".

[Angel]

Originally Posted by Cheri

If you say this one more time about my grammar written, I swear may God help me, I would not be very kind to you at all. I've had it up here with you already. And I would not even care if I get banned for this either, because I've had enough of your drama.

...I hope this made you feel a bit better....

[rockdrummer]

I think it's petty to point out grammer errors. I consider myself to be pretty decent at English and I constantly make grammer and spelling errors. Tha'ts why God invented the grammer and spell checkers. The funny thing is that when I run spell checkers I am making the same mistakes on the same words all the time. (That whole I before E except after C and sometimes Y rule always trips me up) You would think that I would learn by now.

Sorry for being off topic here. Just my two cents worth.

[Angel]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

Just my two cents worth.

:holding my piggy bank:...aw just two cents?...

[jillio]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

I think it's petty to point out grammer errors. I consider myself to be pretty decent at English and I constantly make grammer and spelling errors. Tha'ts why God invented the grammer and spell checkers. The funny thing is that when I run spell checkers I am making the same mistakes on the same words all the time. (That whole I before E except after C and sometimes Y rule always trips me up) You would think that I would learn by now.

Sorry for being off topic here. Just my two cents worth.

And that is exactly why English is so difficult to learn from a phonetic basis. It is so inconsistent. Not to mention the ifs, and, or buts, in all of the rules of grammar. Just when yo think you know the rule, they add a "Except when" to the end of it!

BTW, while I am very careful in the professional writing that I do, I make plenty of mistakes when posting to a forum or sending a personal email!

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by jillio

And that is exactly why English is so difficult to learn from a phonetic basis. It is so inconsistent. Not to mention the ifs, and, or buts, in all of the rules of grammar. Just when yo think you know the rule, they add a "Except when" to the end of it!

BTW, while I am very careful in the professional writing that I do, I make plenty of mistakes when posting to a forum or sending a personal email!

He he, I've good English skills and I still make grammarical mistakes. Sometimes I forget to include the ings in my sentences as in this example:
I am talk to my parents about my trip to the farm when it should be I am talking to my parents about my trip to the farm.

Other times my subject verb agreement isn't always correct and this is my most common grammarical mistake as in this following example: I'll pick up all the dog today. It should be I'll pick up all the dogs today.

My spelling and punucation sucks too

I'm very complusive about correcting my grammarical mistakes - even though no one else on this forum really cares about my grammarical mistakes.

[Liebling:-)))]

Who cares?

Mainly important is we understand each other well, no matter either we have bad English nor misspelling grammar. Remember, nobody are prefect... Their personality comes first before worry their grammars.

If I don´t understand something or unsure either I understand correctly then ask you for your clarify in friendly way instead of insult your grammar.

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Who cares?

Mainly important is we understand each other well, no matter either we have bad English nor misspelling grammar. Remember, nobody are prefect... Their personality comes first before worry their grammars.

If I don´t understand something or unsure either I understand correctly then ask you for your clarify in friendly way instead of insult your grammar.

Yeah, being able to understand each other is the important part on this forum. Being nasty to others even if my grammar is perfect a good way to get banned.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Yeah, being able to understand each other is the important part on this forum. Being nasty to others even if my grammar is perfect a good way to get banned.

Agreed. Nasty and offensive is nasty and offensive, even if it is grammatically correct.

[shel90]

Let's have a grammar contest!