Cheri

Truth? the truth is you as a father decline sign language to your cochlear implant daughter, so how am I supposed to know that signs is valuable to you when you never use it, nor have I ever seen you supporting signs.

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jillio

I wasn't correctlng you, I was correcting fuzzy. But I wanted to reply to your post. I knew where the quote came from.

jillio

I have never denied the implant to my son. It siomply hasn't been necessary, nor has he found it necessary. And I think we all know what you were referring to regarding parents who "take the safe way." Safe is remaining in ones little hearing world and being afraid to venture out of it.

But since you never had the courage to explain exactly what you meant by your remark prior, I suppose you know all about being "safe".

Cheri

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Maria

Why is it sooo important to you about who understands ASL English, not written English ? I am soo positive sure that you certainly HAVE ONE error in your grammer or written skills. You don't have any " perfect " in your grammer or written skills. You are no matched with doctor or lawyer or psychologist or psychiatrist's written skills or grammer.

Is one of your eyes drooped than the other ? Or shall I say is one of your shoes bigger than other in size ? Hmm... Who says perfect ?

You have a problem with many issues here.

jillio

Too late rick. Point already made.

jillio

Perhaps because you have not looked. And the point is, I serve the interests of the deaf, not the hearing. And, the deaf community overwhelmingly agrees with me.

And if you are referring to the hearing parents on this board, you and cloggy are hardly representative of the world of hearing parents of deaf chidlren as a whole. Thank Gawd.

Cheri

That's correct beside Fuzzy never been in a deaf world, she is more social with the hearing world that's why most hearing parents have her support. Who cares. You have us, Jillio.

I'm almost positive sure most deaf people here would love to have you as their parent.

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jillio

Thank you, Cheri. That is what is important to me. I'm still trying to figure out how a parent who has a deaf kid, but has never, ever learned to sign is supportive of sign language. Methinks poster types one way, but acts another!

rick48

Nothing like having an inflated opinion about one's self is there JT.

Don't confuse having a little band of sycophants who feed your need for constant reassurance of the choices you made for your son as being representative of anything.

Say what you want about cloggy and I but at least we are secure in the choices we made for our children.

Why don't you bring your charming personality and close-minded views to places such as the ci circle or the Hearing Exchange. I am sure you will find that your views will suddenly become those of a very distinct minority.

jillio

I guess rick won't answer the questions regarding sign now, but he did infact answer them in other previous posts. Here they are:

I have made the language methodology decision and chose an oral route

We taught English to both of our children directly through speaking to them, reading aloud, nursery rhymes, singing, word songs and games, etc. They also learned English through watching TV, videos and indirectly from hearing other people's conversations etc. With my oldest daughter who is deaf, she also did get s&l therapy. However, a large part of that was learning to listen to and for specific phonemes (sp?) as well as pronouncing them.

Our daughter is 20, going into her junior year of college, a ci user and was raised orally. She was always mainstreamed

our daughter learned spoken English

jillio

Why int he world would I want to go somewhere that supports such narrow minded views as oralsim? I deal with the effects of it on a daily basis....the teenagers who are miserable because they have never been permitted accessto sign or dea culture, the students who are delayed because their parents believed that denying them sign would help their oral langauge development, the young adults who have succeeded, but are still miserable because they never felt a connection to their hearing parents because the parents refused tolearn sign, the young adults that rarely visit their parents because their parents refuse tosign and their children feel estranged from them, and on and on and on. I get my fill of that. No reason to visit one of your forums to get more of it. All of you oralist parents patting yourselves on the back for a job well done, while your deaf children are visiting forums such as AD and lamenting over the fact that they could never connect with their parents on more than a superficial level, and stating that if they had one wish inthis life, it would be that their parents used sign. Nothing new about those two forums....and of course you are comfortable there. They are hearing forums and represent the views of the majority as you know it....the hearing. Over here, however, you are in the distinct minority. And you can't handle it. Got to keep returning to the majority hearing to get your pat on the back. Funny, isn't it, that your own daughter is in the minority, and not the majority.

R2D2

I have to say, how sad it is, but not surprising that this thread which was to support a parent has turned into yet another bickerfest I don't care who started it or who is right or wrong - I think that sometimes there is a time and a place not to rise to the bait.

No wonder parents don't hang around.

__________________


Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006
Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom

Cochlear implant myths

Angel

:Sigh:


I willing to take the blame for this mess, so therefore I decide not to post in these CI threads anymore and this is going to be my final post, this has became too diffcult for me to handle and we will always be the ones look like "bad" guys here and it seem like no one wants to listen to us anymore, so it just not worth it ...


Cduskey -- Please accept my apologize, I wish you and your family all the best!! :walk away quietly:

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

lovezebras

I agree, I don't have a real say in the whole debate, nor would i want to, Im going to start to learn sign next year cuz i think it could be useful for the future but thats not what the parent was asking they were asking about everyones opinion on CI for her daugher not about ASL or ORAL english....I don't think it's very fair that everyone is ruining a thread that someone came on here for advice only to see it be torn up into shreads and turn into a huge argument...

jillio

No need for you to accept the balme for anything, angel. I t is not your fault. Nor are you the bad guy. You ahve an opinion, as dp we all. It is onlywhen others want to make one opinion wrong and the other right that all of this starts.

Quite obviously, if you check out the first few posts, those of us that are considered the "bad guys" were the first ones to step up to support this parent.

Cheri

I apologies, I'm at blame also for this cause of the thread to go downhill. I'm not saying no more.

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Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

Maria

I would never understand that some hearin' parents prefer oral rather than signings. What's soo special about bein' oralist without signings ? Is it about intelligence ? Or is it about " better than you " when one can't hear or talk ?

I am concerned about how it will turn the CI children out to be bullies, if they don't use sign language to bring both worlds together in ONE BIG community. I can see there's some " friction " because of each group is separated from each other. Let's say here : CI people will go to CI group of people. Deaf people wil go to Deaf group of people. They BOTH ( CI and Deaf people ) don't join each other's group as one group, because some CI people don't think that the sign language is valuable to them.

I don't even understand WHY some CI people feel that by usin' voice is soo much easier for them rather than learnin' sign language to form a communication with deaf people.

The question is : How do YOU make new friends with deaf people if, YOU don't learn sign language just because you choose oralism ? What if, the CI parents found out that their baby is deaf after birth ? hmm ... Wonderin' , are they goin' to take this baby to see doctor and discuss to have cochlear implants on this child just like their CI parents ?

I am sure there are soo many questions that have been unanswered.

deafdyke

Actually, jillo I kind of disagree with that. ASL is not English, but English can be used to transliterate ASL syntax.

Audiofuzzy

You have to take under consideration the fact that if the implanted child will not have enough exercise by listening and speaking, it will ruin its chances of having optimal benefits from CI. So, even though the use of SL is temporarily declined, or even completely avoided, it is ALWAYS possible to return to SL later, even years later.

Since SL is a visual language, and since the born deaf or H-o-H child has natural predisposition to use signs and gestures and other instinctive ways to recompensate for lack of a hearing sense,
the SL will be picked up with no troubles at any time later on. This can not be said of achievieng optimal hearing and speaking abilities - for his type of communication and oral langauge development, time is extremely valuable, and fleeting.

Keep in mind also that almost EVERY deaf or HoH person is aware of being "different", even with CI, and naturally curious about being deaf, deaf culture and sign language. It is more likely than not that the implanted child will be, at one point, interested in same as him peers. That is particularly true for teenagers who seek their indentities then.

Fuzzy

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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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deafskeptic

No trouble picking up sign later on? I'm rather skeptical of that one. As ASL and other Sign Languages are not the same as English, I sign with a rather strong English "accent" for want of a better word. I don't mean British English either. I don't sign like a native; I'd rather have someone learn sign early and ditto for English. I've gotten a lot of flack for not signing like a native ASLer from some deaf in the Deaf culture. Most Deaf and those who know sign well can tell that I am not a native user of ASL when I sign. I wish I could sign like a native user of ASL.

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Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

Liebling:-)))

Thank you for share your wonderful description and link here. Most hearing people find sign language beautiful and like to learn it...

Example at Fitness Studio, some members stared us sign and questioned my son how do he learn sign... My son replied - he look at us and sign automatic... They were like wow and asked us to teach them how to sign good morning to good night, good day, bye, hallo, eat, drink, execrise... just pick simple word like that... They signed to me...

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Tousi

Fuzzy, just for the record, there's no such animal as ASL English.

Audiofuzzy

oops, forgot about something :

Sadly, this is how the conversation here looks like most of the time.

My point exactly. ASL users mix different grammar and syntax from ASL and mix it with written or spoken English. The more immersed in ASL, the more grammar and syntax of ASL in the way they write. Example - Smithr who wrote about his CI removal.
The more oral and immersed in hearing world also - the better grammar and syntax in written English. Example - Cheri.
Maria, Liebling, Angel- are in between.


True. English IS my SECOND language, self-taught. I am aware I too make quite often grammar mistakes. of course there is an explanation for it - I tend to use grammar from my native language. Nevertheless, my English grammar is closer to official English grammar than of those who mainly communicate via ASL.

Oh, but I didn't CRITICIZE nobody's English.
It is very normal, understandable and expected even that a deaf person, who grew up signing use different syntax and grammar when writing or speaking.
This is nothing to be ashamed of, or improper about that. I just pointed this out as a factor -THE factor - that complicates communciation between those who grew up "hearing" and those who grew up "signing".
This is absolutely normal, common, understandable thing that simply exist.


First of all I didn't judge no one - I pointed out the differences in how we communicate - you grew up in oral enviroment, and later learned to sign. this is why you write the way you write. I grew up in hearing enviroment, never signed, but in a foreign country - and this is why I write the way I do.
and that complicates our communication, there is no judgement in it - just stating a fact.

Not maybe "care", but at least pay attention. maybe that other person wants to tell you something important?

When and where did I say "BAD English"??? I said ASL English, written English, different English etc. How does that makes it "bad"?


This is your family. of course they are going to reassure you, and that's how it should be.
besides, I never said your English is "BAD". I said I can tell the way you write you are deaf, or signing. That does not make it "bad" English. In fact I would say your English is better than Angel, Maria, Liebling.
And why I said all that - to make you realise that it looks like you often do not understand what I wrote. And because you don't understand it, you don't know what am I saying. or not saying. and accuse me of things I didn't do.


If I had time, I would happily search for my prolonged discussion with Deafdyke and others but mainly Deafdyke in 2005 about ASL language and English in general. But I don't. So, please just be assured that I know what ASL is.

The variable is - the six people, except maybe one, YOU - have the same written English COMPREHENSION.
that's what the variable is, jill. no wonder they all don't get the point alike.
if you add the consensual reassuring patts on the back instead of listening to what I have to say - the communication disaster continues. sadly.

And you jillio would actually do them better service if you told them the truth.
your are not being quite truthful with your friends.

Oh? and how do they hand spell a cat? Le Chat? El gato?
I am well aware what ASL is.

because, sadly, half of my posts are either completely misinterpreted or partially misunderstood. by you as well.
don't you think that good understanding of each other is important?

you might be surpised, but they don't always have perfect grammar or spelling, either

by your logic - if children are important to me and I support them, I should pop one out every nine months, then. otherwise I am not really supportive, am I, hmm?


Of course you did, once - the moment you decided against early implanation - the MOST SUCCESSFUL implantation.

I believe it's definitely easier to learn gesturing for a late deafened than to learn to hear and speak for the born deaf.


Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

Liebling:-)))

If you said that you like sun, that´s fine with us because we know it´s your preference but you tried to compare Lotto and sign language with sun and moon is a misinterpretation. The problem is you interpreted our post in the wrong over Lotto and Sign language. I don´t bother to repeat and repeat because you don´t want to understand.




No, the hearing or deaf children should not depend to train to hear the sounds and speaking only... sign language should be including.

I disagree that you think it´s too early for 5 years old to sign...

I signed my children when they were babies... They started to develop their sign languages when they were 8 and 10 months old. Of coursé it´s same with deaf children with HA or CI as well. It´s cute to see babies/toddlers sign languages. It develops quick and easy...

Here is my interpretation post for you... Cheri is total surprised over Rick´s comment for support sign language.

Pick on you? *scratch on my head* I only remind or correct your post with NO insult/attack/bash because I remember your posts in some threads. What you think is your problem, not mine.

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Audiofuzzy

maybe technically not, but we have to describe undescribable at one point, don't we. feel free to describe the way how, for example Smithr writes. what English is that? I'll be happy to follow.

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

R2D2

I had no idea who started it first and to be honest, my eyes start to glaze over a bit with threads that go a bit out of control and go on about people's parenting and the need to take one's medicine and as a result, I do a fair bit of post skipping.

Anyway, for all I know Cduskey might be on the edge of her seat with rapt attention so I better not become a de facto moderator and to be honest my post has already proven to be a waste of time.

The first lot of posts from both "sides" (do we really have to be on "sides?") who responded to her were great though.

Maybe after a break you might feel ready to post again?

__________________


Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006
Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom

Cochlear implant myths

Audiofuzzy

Yep. I am sure I had a quite a part in derailing as well, my apologies.
here's my two cents;
as a person who was able to hear relatively well with HAs for most of my life, I definitely appreciate the ability to hear and speak.
No matter what direction is taken - deaf culture or "hearing culture" - to hear and speak is good.

So, if I was a mother of one, or two or three or x number of kids- I would defnitely go for both for all hearing impaired kids - the CI and sign language.
One does not exclude the other, but being fluent on both is most beneficial.




Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

Maria

Fuzzy,

Soon or later, I wouldn't be surprised that you will be banned by one of the moderators.

Audiofuzzy

Oh, and I meant to ask - if I may- since you mentioned that the hearing loss is most likely genetic- do you or your husband have or had anyone in a family, including some generations back - who have/had hearing loss, or some neurological diseases/disorders. like Meniere's?

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.