Deaf view on a CI kid... its a bummer..

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Cloggy

Cloggy

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Just wondering why many deaf people cannot see the deaf child having the capability to hear...

All this effort by Deaf society to convince that for the child it's better to stay deaf instead of to hear. Such utter nonsense.

Sometimes I feel that it is the bad expereinces from childhood, followed by good experiences when "finally" sign-language was learned is the motivator for this behaviour.
Allmost as if the child HAS to have to good experience of being deaf, and is not entitled to any good experience of hearing.

Every time, a deaf child with CI is compared with personal experiences as a child that is hard of hearing. And since the Deaf person had that experience - it automatically means that the new-born child also has that experience.
 
I think this kind of behavior is mostly motivated by fear of the unknown, Cloggy, aided by misinformation, propaganda, and ethnocentrism. Those who are within the Deaf community fear the exodus of deaf children into the hearing world because it lessens THEIR community base. So they start making up stories that every parent will implant their deaf child, that every deaf child with a CI will be forced into an oral only upbringing, and that every deaf child with a CI will spurn the D/deaf communities in favor of the hearing world. Fear of the unknown is a powerful thing.

Its this fear-mongering that drives people to discount any kind of positive experience a child may have as "well not every child has that experience, so you shouldn't talk about it, because other people might think its that way with everybody and that's not right..." Its sad that people feel they have the right to interject THEIR beliefs into a decision that belongs to the family. My advice is to simply do what you believe is best - after all, the parents have the best interests for the child at heart, even if others refuse to believe this is so.
 
You have to understand where some of us are coming from, Cochlear implant is a personal choice. And most of you think that the earliest the child is implant would most likely show higher level of language development than those who are not implant. I know for fact the early you focuses on your child's language and communication development such as sign and spoken language they will have a higher language development on track. Hell sign language is good for those to communicate across a football field or talk to someone down the block or in the Library.

Supposed if the cochlear implant isn't working for the child, What are you gonna do? Keep going for the implant until something picks up? That's non-sense. Cochlear implant isn't for everyone, it all depending upon individual.

I hate the fact when they grow up feeling like their parents are trying to make them something they are not; they want to make them appear to be hearing. What is it to grieve? Being deaf is a gift, just like any new born that is born in this world is also a gift. Parents are supposed to be primary teachers, not trying to "fix" a child into being someone else.

In this world, You want to give your child the option of speaking not hearing. learning to speak is not as frustrating as not learning to speak in the real world.

That's all I gonna say for right now. ;)
 
U are both wrong. It is because people expected us to live the life like a hearing person rather than educating us about our needs and that it is ok to be deaf and that there is nothing wrong with us. . Also, the expectations of hearing people have of us to meet their hearing needs all the time without ever meeting our deaf needs which makes life difficult for many of us. Many of us are tired of hearing people not respecting ASL, not respecting that we are deaf, and we see it happening again with children who are implanted. It seems like when we voice our opinions or anger, it is brushed off but when u, hearing people voice yours, it is expected to taken seriously. That is inequality and many of us are still fighting against it.

I dont think it is fear of the unknown..it is the anger of the hearing world telling us to do this or that when it was very difficult for us and making us feel inferior. Cloggy, u put so much value on being able to hear and expect us to have the same values. Some of us dont..

If the hearing world had shown respect for ASL instead of forcing us to use spoken language only and not put us down as retarded or whatever, maybe there wouldnt be so much anger, wouldnt there be?
 
shel90 said:
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If the hearing world had shown respect for ASL instead of forcing us to use spoken language only and not put us down as retarded or whatever, maybe there wouldnt be so much anger, wouldnt there be?
Click to expand...

I totally agree on that..
 
neecy said:
I think this kind of behavior is mostly motivated by fear of the unknown, Cloggy, aided by misinformation, propaganda, and ethnocentrism. Those who are within the Deaf community fear the exodus of deaf children into the hearing world because it lessens THEIR community base. So they start making up stories that every parent will implant their deaf child, that every deaf child with a CI will be forced into an oral only upbringing, and that every deaf child with a CI will spurn the D/deaf communities in favor of the hearing world. Fear of the unknown is a powerful thing.

Its this fear-mongering that drives people to discount any kind of positive experience a child may have as "well not every child has that experience, so you shouldn't talk about it, because other people might think its that way with everybody and that's not right..." Its sad that people feel they have the right to interject THEIR beliefs into a decision that belongs to the family. My advice is to simply do what you believe is best - after all, the parents have the best interests for the child at heart, even if others refuse to believe this is so.
Click to expand...

If hearing parents are expected to have the same respect from everyone for implanting their children, then Deaf parents have just as much right to the same if they decide not to implant their children. It goes both ways...

Stop blaming deaf people for everything. Man!
 
shel90 said:
If hearing parents are expected to have the same respect from everyone for implanting their children, then Deaf parents have just as much right to the same if they decide not to implant their children. It goes both ways...

Stop blaming deaf people for everything. Man!
Click to expand...


Correct, it does go BOTH ways, Thank you!!
 
shel90 said:
U are both wrong. It is because people expected us to live the life like a hearing person rather than educating us about our needs and that it is ok to be deaf and that there is nothing wrong with us. . Also, the expectations of hearing people have of us to meet their hearing needs all the time without ever meeting our deaf needs which makes life difficult for many of us. Many of us are tired of hearing people not respecting ASL, not respecting that we are deaf, and we see it happening again with children who are implanted. It seems like when we voice our opinions or anger, it is brushed off but when u, hearing people voice yours, it is expected to taken seriously. That is inequality and many of us are still fighting against it.

I dont think it is fear of the unknown..it is the anger of the hearing world telling us to do this or that when it was very difficult for us and making us feel inferior. Cloggy, u put so much value on being able to hear and expect us to have the same values. Some of us dont..

If the hearing world had shown respect for ASL instead of forcing us to use spoken language only and not put us down as retarded or whatever, maybe there wouldnt be so much anger, wouldnt there be?
Click to expand...

:gpost:!!
 
shel90 said:
If hearing parents are expected to have the same respect from everyone for implanting their children, then Deaf parents have just as much right to the same if they decide not to implant their children. It goes both ways...
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you seem to feel that someone is suggesting Deaf parents should not have the right to decide against a CI. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven't seen anyone get angry over someone not being implanted.
 
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Drew's Dad said:
I'm surprised you seem to feel that someone is suggesting Deaf parents should not have the right to decide against a CI. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven't seen anyone get angry over someone not being implanted.
Click to expand...

Fuzzy posted in another thread about how deaf parents are lazy for not giving their deaf children an option for an implant. Since when in this world that we all must be hearing?
 
Drew's Dad said:
shel90 said:
If hearing parents are expected to have the same respect from everyone for implanting their children, then Deaf parents have just as much right to the same if they decide not to implant their children. It goes both ways...
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you seem to feel that someone is suggesting Deaf parents should not have the right to decide against a CI. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven't seen anyone get angry over someone not being implanted.
Click to expand...

Yea it was in another thread...that deaf parents wont implant their deaf children cuz they are too lazy to learn spoken language to communicate with them.
 
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I dunno about you, but if somebody says somebody is lazy - it sounds like they're making a observation/complaint/comment, but certainly not anything in anger.
 
Cheri said:
Fuzzy posted in another thread about how deaf parents are lazy for not giving their deaf children an option for an implant. Since when in this world that we all must be hearing?
Click to expand...

I know and not all deaf people qualify for a CI so what then? It is time to change this particular attitude and meet each other's needs instead of just the hearing needs. Then we wouldnt have this problem.
 
neecy said:
I think this kind of behavior is mostly motivated by fear of the unknown, Cloggy, aided by misinformation, propaganda, and ethnocentrism. Those who are within the Deaf community fear the exodus of deaf children into the hearing world because it lessens THEIR community base. So they start making up stories that every parent will implant their deaf child, that every deaf child with a CI will be forced into an oral only upbringing, and that every deaf child with a CI will spurn the D/deaf communities in favor of the hearing world. Fear of the unknown is a powerful thing.

Wow, that's funny! You have just described oralism is all it's glory. The misinformation and the propaganda are coming from the oral only camps. The fear that is being preyed upon and manipulated is the fear that the hearing parent feels when he finds that his/her child is deaf. Fear that their child will be seen as "handicapped". Fear that their child wil never be able to live a so-called "normal life". Fear that their child will never be able to achieve more than minimal education. Fear that their child will never be able to reach their potential. Fear that their child is different from them. Fear of the unknown. Fear of encountering circumstances that are outside the realm of anything they know or have experienced. Fear that they will somehow be looked down upon becuase they have, God forbid, produced a "less than perfect" child in the eyes of the majority. Unreasonable, unrealistic, overwhelming fear and grief. That is exactly the fear and the grief that CI manufacturers, and implant teams prey on. That is exactly the fear and the grief that the strict oralist prey on.

Its this fear-mongering that drives people to discount any kind of positive experience a child may have as "well not every child has that experience, so you shouldn't talk about it, because other people might think its that way with everybody and that's not right..." Its sad that people feel they have the right to interject THEIR beliefs into a decision that belongs to the family. My advice is to simply do what you believe is best - after all, the parents have the best interests for the child at heart, even if others refuse to believe this is so.
Click to expand...


You are absolutely right. It is this fear mongering that drives people to discount any kind of positive experience a child may have. It is seen constantly in these threads when people refuse to accpet the postive experiences of the non-implanted deaf child, when people minimize the successes of the non-implanted deaf child, and try to blame CI failure on the child himself or herself. It is seen when the already proven benfits of sign and speech together even for the CI implanted child are discounted. It is seen everytime the deaf posters experience is ridiculed or minimized. It is seen in the judgement of the non-impanted as not having a quality of life equal to the implanted. It is not the deaf community that is engaging in fear mongering, it is the hearing community. And it is the most unethical form of fear mongering, because it preys on hearing parents at the most vunerable time of their lives. It is unconscionable fear mongering. And it is ethnocentrism in the most extreme and narrow minded form possible.
 
jillio said:
You are absolutely right. It is this fear mongering that drives people to discount any kind of positive experience a child may have. It is seen constantly in these threads when people refuse to accpet the postive experiences of the non-implanted deaf child, when people minimize the successes of the non-implanted deaf child, and try to blame CI failure on the child himself or herself. It is seen when the already proven benfits of sign and speech together even for the CI implanted child are discounted. It is seen everytime the deaf posters experience is ridiculed or minimized. It is seen in the judgement of the non-impanted as not having a quality of life equal to the implanted. It is not the deaf community that is engaging in fear mongering, it is the hearing community. And it is the most unethical form of fear mongering, because it preys on hearing parents at the most vunerable time of their lives. It is unconscionable fear mongering. And it is ethnocentrism in the most extreme and narrow minded form possible.
Click to expand...

It is that same misinformation that was given to my mom by the medical community and oralists that drove her to make my brother and I as "normal" as she cud be. My brother couldn't develop oral language so the specialist called him an oral failure. How sick is that??? Now my mom regrets taking their word for it cuz she saw how happy and successful my brother and I r with having ASL/Deaf communities in our lives. She especially regrets listening to those biased individuals for denying me access to sign language or other Deaf people. She thought by being around hearing people only growing up would make me "normal". When I told her the truth how life was for me being around only hearing people, she cried and felt so guilty.

She said if she had to do it all over again, she wud have sought out the Deaf community for their advice too. She thought they were low functioning. *sighs*
 
shel90 said:
U are both wrong. It is because people expected us to live the life like a hearing person rather than educating us about our needs and that it is ok to be deaf and that there is nothing wrong with us. . Also, the expectations of hearing people have of us to meet their hearing needs all the time without ever meeting our deaf needs which makes life difficult for many of us. Many of us are tired of hearing people not respecting ASL, not respecting that we are deaf, and we see it happening again with children who are implanted. It seems like when we voice our opinions or anger, it is brushed off but when u, hearing people voice yours, it is expected to taken seriously. That is inequality and many of us are still fighting against it.

I dont think it is fear of the unknown..it is the anger of the hearing world telling us to do this or that when it was very difficult for us and making us feel inferior. Cloggy, u put so much value on being able to hear and expect us to have the same values. Some of us dont..

If the hearing world had shown respect for ASL instead of forcing us to use spoken language only and not put us down as retarded or whatever, maybe there wouldnt be so much anger, wouldnt there be?
Click to expand...

Exactly, shel. Deafness has been created as a disability by the hearing world. The hearing world promotes a view of deafness that identifies the deaf person as a pathological version of hearing person. The hearing world expects the deaf person to function and live as an approximation of a hearing person, not as a complete and whole deaf person. The hearing world exaggerates the deafness. The attitudes of hearing society are what turns deafness into a disability. The deaf,as a group, have been historically oppressed, discriminated against, isolated, under-educated, and under-employed. They have been treated as second class citizens, they have been misjudged, and they have been under-estimated. They have been subjected to extermination during the halocaust, they have been locked in mental institutions, they have had their civil rights violated, they have been unjustly incarcerated. They have been made disabled by the hearing society's treatment of their deafness, and then subjected to further humiliation by being treated as less than equal based on the disability that was created for them by others. They have been experimented on, treated as mental defectives, and had attempts made to prevent them from bearing children. And all of this injustice has occurred simply because they cannot hear. Simply becaue they do not possess the auditory sense that the majority has. The deaf population throughout history has been cruelly, cruelly punished by hearing society........and for what wrong? What wrong has the deaf man or woman or child done to deserve such punishment? The answer is NOTHING! And when the deaf population stands up and says, "ENOUGH! I will not allow you to treat me this way any longer! I will not allow you to humiliate and degrade me in this way any more!" they are labeled as militant. When they demand the same treatment that every hearing perosn in this society is afforded simply by the fact that they are hearing, they are accused of being unreasonable. When the deaf individual stands up and demands to be treated with the same respect afforded the hearing, and refuses to be degraded any longer, hearing society attempts to beat that individual back into submission.

(sarcasm) So, no.....of course the deaf have nothing to be angry about.( end sarcasm). Try sending a hearing child to a school where they were smacked in the mouth every time they spoke a word, and see how much outrage is expressed. Try refusing to hire a hearing person simply because he communicates with spoken language and see how many protests result. Try executing a hearing person for no other reason than they can hear, and see how much anger results. Try putting legislation into place that mandates that hearing children be placed in ASL only classrooms, and watch what happens. Lets tell the hearing individuals in this world that they are unable to determine for themselves what is best for them, that they can't possibly know what they need, so the deaf community is going to tell them what is best for them and what they need and they damned well better listen! Shit, they can't even stand a little criticism regarding CI without going all to pieces. They would spin out of control if they had to live under the tyranny and opression equal to that experienced by the deaf!
 
Drew's Dad said:
shel90 said:
If hearing parents are expected to have the same respect from everyone for implanting their children, then Deaf parents have just as much right to the same if they decide not to implant their children. It goes both ways...
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you seem to feel that someone is suggesting Deaf parents should not have the right to decide against a CI. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven't seen anyone get angry over someone not being implanted.
Click to expand...

Check out the other threads. Not only are deaf parents who decide not to implant bashed, but hearing parents who decide not to implant are bashed, as well.
 
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shel90 said:
It is that same misinformation that was given to my mom by the medical community and oralists that drove her to make my brother and I as "normal" as she cud be. My brother couldn't develop oral language so the specialist called him an oral failure. How sick is that??? Now my mom regrets taking their word for it cuz she saw how happy and successful my brother and I r with having ASL/Deaf communities in our lives. She especially regrets listening to those biased individuals for denying me access to sign language or other Deaf people. She thought by being around hearing people only growing up would make me "normal". When I told her the truth how life was for me being around only hearing people, she cried and felt so guilty.

She said if she had to do it all over again, she wud have sought out the Deaf community for their advice too. She thought they were low functioning. *sighs*
Click to expand...

I know. I find it completely absurd and the untimate in hypocracy that anyone would even suggest that the deaf community is guilty of "fear mongering".
 
jillio said:
Exactly, shel. Deafness has been created as a disability by the hearing world. The hearing world promotes a view of deafness that identifies the deaf person as a pathological version of hearing person. The hearing world expects the deaf person to function and live as an approximation of a hearing person, not as a complete and whole deaf person. The hearing world exaggerates the deafness. The attitudes of hearing society are what turns deafness into a disability. The deaf,as a group, have been historically oppressed, discriminated against, isolated, under-educated, and under-employed. They have been treated as second class citizens, they have been misjudged, and they have been under-estimated. They have been subjected to extermination during the halocaust, they have been locked in mental institutions, they have had their civil rights violated, they have been unjustly incarcerated. They have been made disabled by the hearing society's treatment of their deafness, and then subjected to further humiliation by being treated as less than equal based on the disability that was created for them by others. They have been experimented on, treated as mental defectives, and had attempts made to prevent them from bearing children. And all of this injustice has occurred simply because they cannot hear. Simply becaue they do not possess the auditory sense that the majority has. The deaf population throughout history has been cruelly, cruelly punished by hearing society........and for what wrong? What wrong has the deaf man or woman or child done to deserve such punishment? The answer is NOTHING! And when the deaf population stands up and says, "ENOUGH! I will not allow you to treat me this way any longer! I will not allow you to humiliate and degrade me in this way any more!" they are labeled as militant. When they demand the same treatment that every hearing perosn in this society is afforded simply by the fact that they are hearing, they are accused of being unreasonable. When the deaf individual stands up and demands to be treated with the same respect afforded the hearing, and refuses to be degraded any longer, hearing society attempts to beat that individual back into submission.

(sarcasm) So, no.....of course the deaf have nothing to be angry about.( end sarcasm). Try sending a hearing child to a school where they were smacked in the mouth every time they spoke a word, and see how much outrage is expressed. Try refusing to hire a hearing person simply because he communicates with spoken language and see how many protests result. Try executing a hearing person for no other reason than they can hear, and see how much anger results. Try putting legislation into place that mandates that hearing children be placed in ASL only classrooms, and watch what happens. Lets tell the hearing individuals in this world that they are unable to determine for themselves what is best for them, that they can't possibly know what they need, so the deaf community is going to tell them what is best for them and what they need and they damned well better listen! Shit, they can't even stand a little criticism regarding CI without going all to pieces. They would spin out of control if they had to live under the tyranny and opression equal to that experienced by the deaf!
Click to expand...

And hearing people or other deaf people with the hearing view wonder why we say "f&*ck u" to making ourselves as hearing as much as we can.

That's why some deaf people have that view with CIs..another attempt by hearing people to conform us to their way..nothing new so some deaf people are not interested in CIs and that shud be respected too. Nothing to do with the fear of the unknown. Heck if no more member of the Deaf comunity come in, at least we all still have each other who still value ASL and the Deaf community.
 
shel90 said:
And hearing people or other deaf people with the hearing view wonder why we say "f&*ck u" to making ourselves as hearing as much as we can.

That's why some deaf people have that view with CIs..another attempt by hearing people to conform us to their way..nothing new so some deaf people are not interested in CIs and that shud be respected too. Nothing to do with the fear of the unknown. Heck if no more member of the Deaf comunity come in, at least we all still have each other who still value ASL and the Deaf community.
Click to expand...

The Deaf communtiy is in no danger of disappearing just because technology has advanced. To even think that is ridiculas. But when hearing people claim that the only objection of the Deaf community to CI is the fear that their culture will disappear it gives them one more way to manipulate the rear of those hearing parents of deaf children. "See, the Deaf community doesn't care about your child. They are only worried about their culture disappearing. We are the ones that truly care about your deaf child, because we want to make him like all the little hearing kiddies in the world. Don't worry if he doesn't quite make it....a little bit of hearing and speech are still better than none."
 
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