Risk of Bacterial Meningitis and Death in Children with Cochlear Implants - Page 3

Tousi · 10-09-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yes, it´s true. You are not only one who says this... Many children received vaccination but still they got Bacterical Miningitis after CI surgery. 3 toddlers died in Germany (see my post in first thread).

Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".

neecy · 10-09-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".

That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.

R2D2 · 10-09-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neecy

That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.

I personally think that 7% occurence of a serious illness is a tad on the high side but again feel that more research needs to be done because studies are not coming up with conclusive and clear results.

For example, the UK did their own study and found that none of the children in their cohort developed meningitis but 5 adults did. Of the 5 adults, 4 possessed at risk factors that were unrelated to implantation. Also, the cumulative mortality rate for all causes did not increase after implantation. So the researchers really need to be digging deeper to find out why those who do get meninigitis get it.

Quote:

Results Of 1851 children (66 with positioners), none had contracted meningitis. Neither the incidence rate of meningitis, nor the cumulative mortality from all causes, differed significantly between implanted children and values expected for the general population. Of 1779 adults (139 with positioners), five had contracted meningitis with three fatalities. No case of meningitis involved a positioner and four of the cases, including the fatalities, possessed risk factors unrelated to implantation. Although the incidence rate of meningitis was significantly higher in implanted adults than the general population, cumulative mortality from all causes was never higher, and was significantly lower at some time points after implantation.

Incidence of meningitis and of death from all causes among users of cochlear implants in the United Kingdom -- Summerfield et al., 10.1093/pubmed/fdh188 -- Journal of Public Health

**shel90** · 10-09-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".

Is that the ratio or a specific group that was studied?

jillio · 10-09-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

I personally think that 7% occurence of a serious illness is a tad on the high side but again feel that more research needs to be done because studies are not coming up with conclusive and clear results.

For example, the UK did their own study and found that none of the children in their cohort developed meningitis but 5 adults did. Of the 5 adults, 4 possessed at risk factors that were unrelated to implantation. Also, the cumulative mortality rate for all causes did not increase after implantation. So the researchers really need to be digging deeper to find out why those who do get meninigitis get it.

Incidence of meningitis and of death from all causes among users of cochlear implants in the United Kingdom -- Summerfield et al., 10.1093/pubmed/fdh188 -- Journal of Public Health

Agreede, R2D2. 7% is significant.

Tousi · 10-09-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Is that the ratio or a specific group that was studied?

Yes, it is, Shel--in Leibling's post somewhere above my response.

**Liebling:-)))** · 10-10-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neecy

That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.

I feel that 7% is too many...

I know there're no 0%... but 1%...

**Liebling:-)))** · 10-10-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".

This is your view...

For me, 29 is many...

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

........ Dont even get me started on that one.

Didn't realise I was doing that..

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 03:26 AM

CI-users in the article: 29/4264=0.0068 or 0.68%

Worldwide ocurance:for children (from general article..)

Quote:

"Bacterial Meningitis in children and adolescents: an observational study based on the national surveillance system"
Results

The overall number of cases was 1023; the incidence ranged from 3.4 to 8.5 per 100 000 population, with the higher figures in children 1–5 years old (16.8 per 100 000 population). Streptococcus pneumoniae, Haemophilus influenzae type b and Neisseria meningitidis serogroup B were the main identified agents. The average case-fatality rate was 10.5% and the most lethal agents were Streptococcus pneumoniae (27%) and Haemophilus influenzae type b (10.7%). Overall percentage of cases who slept in overcrowded dormitories was 15%, reaching 30.6% in adolescents. Seasonality was only evident among meningococcal meningitis cases between September–October. The attendance to boarding high school showed an association with disease only in 1998 and 1999 (RR = 2.1; p > 0.05).

Using 16.8/100000= 0.000168 or 0.0168%. So it's quite a difference from this point of view. A factor 40.

But as said, there is higher occurance when someone becomes deaf due to menigitis.

Also, parents of children with CI are (or should be) more focused on menigitis, and any hint of the desease will be acted upon immediately. (Same for adults with CI of course)
So, awarenes among the parents of these children is much higher than that of other parents. For the latter, a flue is just a flue. For the firts, a flue could be menigitis..

More info

Quote:

Indiana University Health Center - Meningitis
How Many Meningococcal Meningitis Cases Occur Each Year?
The annual occurrence rate of meningococcal disease in the United States is 2.2 per 100,000. 1/3 of these cases are in children under the age of 5. Average mortality rates vary between 5% and 15% with early recognition and treatment being the crucial variables.

Children with Cochlear Implants at Increased Risk for Bacterial Meningitis News Article - Lawsuit news - Find Trial Lawyers and Attorneys with Experience in Children with Cochlear Implants at Increased Risk for Bacterial Meningitis News Article - Per
The study group involved 4,264 children who received a cochlear implant in the United States between January 1, 1997 and August 6, 2002, and who were younger than age 6 at the time of the implant.

A total of 29 cases of bacterial meningitis were identified in 26 children (three children had two episodes of the illness). Fifteen children had meningitis caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae. Less than one case of the disease would be seen in a group this size, during the same time period, based on the rates in the general population.

NEJM -- Risk of Bacterial Meningitis in Children with Cochlear Implants

CHS | News Release: Cochlear Implants and Bacterial Meningitis
“Over a period of 14 years, 52 cases of meningitis have been reported worldwide to Advanced Bionics Corporation and Cochlear Corporation. These have occurred in children and adults ranging in age from 21 months to 72 years who have undergone cochlear implantation for severe to profound deafness. A total of 12 known deaths have resulted from these cases. Two implant surgeons, Drs. Noel Cohen and Thomas Balkany, have recently surveyed cochlear implant centers and manufacturers in North America. They identified 22 cases (of the 52 worldwide cases) of meningitis. Nine cases were identified in patients with the Advanced Bionics CLARION device, 13 cases with the Cochlear Nucleus device, and no cases with the MED-EL Corporation device.”

**Kalista** · 10-10-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I feel that 7% is too many...

I know there're no 0%... but 1%...

Yes, I agree with you. I prefer 0%. I am extremely angry with many parents, they did not think more careful before they make the wrongful decision.

Unforunately, many doctors are pressure on the parents. They want the $$$$. grrrrrr

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalista

Yes, I agree with you. I prefer 0%. I am extremely angry with many parents, they did not think more careful before they make the wrongful decision.

Unforunately, many doctors are pressure on the parents. They want the $$$$. grrrrrr

I have not seen any parents here that made a wrong decision... Guess it depends on your perspective....

But from your perspective.... how do you know they did not "think carefully"?
Is it because... if they think carefully... then they will do it your way??

Kalista's answer: ................................................

And how much money does the doctor get??? Any numbers you can share, or is it just one of those Deaf culture myths that you try to keep alive??

Kalista's answer: ................................................

jillio · 10-10-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

CI-users in the article: 29/4264=0.0068 or 0.68%

Worldwide ocurance:for children (from general article..)

Using 16.8/100000= 0.000168 or 0.0168%. So it's quite a difference from this point of view. A factor 40.

But as said, there is higher occurance when someone becomes deaf due to menigitis.

Also, parents of children with CI are (or should be) more focused on menigitis, and any hint of the desease will be acted upon immediately. (Same for adults with CI of course)
So, awarenes among the parents of these children is much higher than that of other parents. For the latter, a flue is just a flue. For the firts, a flue could be menigitis..

More info

A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Oh, Jillio, you are soo right...

Do the parents know that?

jillio · 10-10-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Oh, Jillio, you are soo right...

Do the parents know that?

Guess not....you didn't. And flu and meningitis prsent differently symptomatically.

**Angel** · 10-10-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Yeppers....

**Liebling:-)))** · 10-10-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Yes, that´s right.

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Guess not....you didn't. And flu and meningitis prsent differently symptomatically.

**Angel** · 10-10-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

I think that means Cloggy finally gave up LMAO! I'm teasing...

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I think that means Cloggy finally gave up LMAO! I'm teasing...

**Maria** · 10-10-2007, 11:23 AM

I was thinkin' the same thing when I first read in Cloggy's posts in another thread. He finally is learnin' somethin'.

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

I was thinkin' the same thing when I first read in Cloggy's posts in another thread. He finally is learnin' somethin'.

neecy · 10-10-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Guess not....you didn't. And flu and meningitis prsent differently symptomatically.

Actually - to the medical community sometimes the symptoms are so close-linked they make mistakes. I'm a perfect example - when I had bacterial meningitis when I was a child, my family doctor was out of town. The guy I had to see told my Mom that I had the flu and to take me back home. Mom managed to track down our family doctor and called him because my fever kept going up and I started getting delirious. That was an extra 12 hours that I could have been treated/on antibiotics/whatever that was missed. I lapsed into a coma (that lasted 3 weeks) while in the ambulance taking me to the hospital 100 miles away.

So I just wanted to point out - even doctors can mistake the symptoms of meningitis during its onset.

jillio · 10-10-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neecy

Actually - to the medical community sometimes the symptoms are so close-linked they make mistakes. I'm a perfect example - when I had bacterial meningitis when I was a child, my family doctor was out of town. The guy I had to see told my Mom that I had the flu and to take me back home. Mom managed to track down our family doctor and called him because my fever kept going up and I started getting delirious. That was an extra 12 hours that I could have been treated/on antibiotics/whatever that was missed. I lapsed into a coma (that lasted 3 weeks) while in the ambulance taking me to the hospital 100 miles away.

So I just wanted to point out - even doctors can mistake the symptoms of meningitis during its onset.

In first 24-48 hours the symtoms are similar, but quickly progress to the point that differentiation is possible. However, if one ahs a child that for any reason is more suceptible to bacterial meningitis, one should be suspicious of any flu-like symptoms.

**highlands** · 10-10-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Psst Cloggy ...

Cloggy · 10-10-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

In first 24-48 hours the symtoms are similar, but quickly progress to the point that differentiation is possible. However, if one ahs a child that for any reason is more suceptible to bacterial meningitis, one should be suspicious of any flu-like symptoms.

Didn't I just say that.....?????

Quote:

So, awarenes among the parents of these children is much higher than that of other parents. For the latter, a flue is just a flue. For the firts, a flue could be menigitis..

Oh, sorry. Forgot the word "symptoms"... silly me...

jillio · 10-10-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Didn't I just say that.....?????

Oh, sorry. Forgot the word "symptoms"... silly me...

Nope, that's not what you said. Symptoms is the key word. And, I said "should be", you said "is".

john57 · 10-10-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

I also like to point out another fact that confusing to some parents. To protect or vaccine someone from possible bacterial meningitis that could come from a cochlear implantation. You take the pneumococcal vaccine, not the meningitis vaccine which protects against other forms of meningitis that usually has no bearing if you have a cochlear implant or not. This was confusing to some and you may think that you need both, but several doctors have told patients that you usually only need the pneumococcal vaccine to protect against the one usually type of bacterial that could come from a cochlear implantation.

jillio · 10-10-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john57

I also like to point out another fact that confusing to some parents. To protect or vaccine someone from possible bacterial meningitis that could come from a cochlear implantation. You take the pneumococcal vaccine, not the meningitis vaccine which protects against other forms of meningitis that usually has no bearing if you have a cochlear implant or not. This was confusing to some and you may think that you need both, but several doctors have told patients that you usually only need the pneumococcal vaccine to protect against the one usually type of bacterial that could come from a cochlear implantation.

Exactly. And then there is also the confusion that arises between the difference between viral pneumonia, bacterial pneumonia, bacterial menigitis, and viral meningitis.

R2D2 · 10-11-2007, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

CI-users in the article: 29/4264=0.0068 or 0.68%

Worldwide ocurance:for children (from general article..)

Using 16.8/100000= 0.000168 or 0.0168%. So it's quite a difference from this point of view. A factor 40.

But as said, there is higher occurance when someone becomes deaf due to menigitis.

Thanks for clarifying that Cloggy. Not sure where the 7% came from and what a relief that it's not as high as that and this would put it closer into line with the British study that I mentioned. I'd say that 0.017% is a relatively small risk really. To put it in perspective, it's about the same as the chance of a woman dying in natural childbirth in a first world country.

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10-10-2007, 11:23 AM	#81 (permalink)
Maria Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WISCONSIN Posts: 10,309	I was thinkin' the same thing when I first read in Cloggy's posts in another thread. He finally is learnin' somethin'.