AllDeaf.com
Our Sponsors

Go Back   AllDeaf.com > Deaf Interests > Hearing Aids & Cochlear Implants

  

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-09-2007, 12:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tousi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
Yes, it´s true. You are not only one who says this... Many children received vaccination but still they got Bacterical Miningitis after CI surgery. 3 toddlers died in Germany (see my post in first thread).
Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".
Tousi is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Deafness

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com
   
Old 10-09-2007, 01:33 PM   #62 (permalink)
Use the Google, Luke!
 
neecy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tousi View Post
Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".
That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.
__________________
Randy Pausch - The Last Lecture ~ RIP July 25, 2008
http://www.taudiobook.com/closed_cap...y_pausch_full/
My CI blog: http://bionicgal.blogspot.com
neecy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 06:06 PM   #63 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by neecy View Post
That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.
I personally think that 7% occurence of a serious illness is a tad on the high side but again feel that more research needs to be done because studies are not coming up with conclusive and clear results.

For example, the UK did their own study and found that none of the children in their cohort developed meningitis but 5 adults did. Of the 5 adults, 4 possessed at risk factors that were unrelated to implantation. Also, the cumulative mortality rate for all causes did not increase after implantation. So the researchers really need to be digging deeper to find out why those who do get meninigitis get it.

Quote:
Results Of 1851 children (66 with positioners), none had contracted meningitis. Neither the incidence rate of meningitis, nor the cumulative mortality from all causes, differed significantly between implanted children and values expected for the general population. Of 1779 adults (139 with positioners), five had contracted meningitis with three fatalities. No case of meningitis involved a positioner and four of the cases, including the fatalities, possessed risk factors unrelated to implantation. Although the incidence rate of meningitis was significantly higher in implanted adults than the general population, cumulative mortality from all causes was never higher, and was significantly lower at some time points after implantation.
Incidence of meningitis and of death from all causes among users of cochlear implants in the United Kingdom -- Summerfield et al., 10.1093/pubmed/fdh188 -- Journal of Public Health
__________________


Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006
Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom


Cochlear implant myths
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 06:11 PM   #64 (permalink)
Sun Whorshipper
 
shel90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland
Posts: 13,552
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tousi View Post
Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".
Is that the ratio or a specific group that was studied?
__________________
~Shel~
shel90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 06:16 PM   #65 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I personally think that 7% occurence of a serious illness is a tad on the high side but again feel that more research needs to be done because studies are not coming up with conclusive and clear results.

For example, the UK did their own study and found that none of the children in their cohort developed meningitis but 5 adults did. Of the 5 adults, 4 possessed at risk factors that were unrelated to implantation. Also, the cumulative mortality rate for all causes did not increase after implantation. So the researchers really need to be digging deeper to find out why those who do get meninigitis get it.



Incidence of meningitis and of death from all causes among users of cochlear implants in the United Kingdom -- Summerfield et al., 10.1093/pubmed/fdh188 -- Journal of Public Health

Agreede, R2D2. 7% is significant.
jillio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 07:37 PM   #66 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tousi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by shel90 View Post
Is that the ratio or a specific group that was studied?
Yes, it is, Shel--in Leibling's post somewhere above my response.
Tousi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 03:17 AM   #67 (permalink)
Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 24,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by neecy View Post
That's 7%. To me "many" would be at least 20%. Not even close. But as you and I know, they won't be satisfied with anything until its 0%.
I feel that 7% is too many...

I know there're no 0%... but 1%...
__________________

*sniffing you*
Liebling:-))) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 03:18 AM   #68 (permalink)
Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 24,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tousi View Post
Many? I'm surprised. Where did you see, "many", please?

Never mind; I found it. 29 out of over 4, 200. I don't think that is "many".
This is your view...

For me, 29 is many...
__________________

*sniffing you*
Liebling:-))) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 03:19 AM   #69 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockdrummer View Post
........ Dont even get me started on that one.
Didn't realise I was doing that..
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
My daughter . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI, here,or here.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 03:26 AM   #70 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
It's not 7%....

CI-users in the article: 29/4264=0.0068 or 0.68%

Worldwide ocurance:for children (from general article..)
Quote:
"Bacterial Meningitis in children and adolescents: an observational study based on the national surveillance system"
Results

The overall number of cases was 1023; the incidence ranged from 3.4 to 8.5 per 100 000 population, with the higher figures in children 1–5 years old (16.8 per 100 000 population). Streptococcus pneumoniae, Haemophilus influenzae type b and Neisseria meningitidis serogroup B were the main identified agents. The average case-fatality rate was 10.5% and the most lethal agents were Streptococcus pneumoniae (27%) and Haemophilus influenzae type b (10.7%). Overall percentage of cases who slept in overcrowded dormitories was 15%, reaching 30.6% in adolescents. Seasonality was only evident among meningococcal meningitis cases between September–October. The attendance to boarding high school showed an association with disease only in 1998 and 1999 (RR = 2.1; p > 0.05).
Using 16.8/100000= 0.000168 or 0.0168%. So it's quite a difference from this point of view. A factor 40.

But as said, there is higher occurance when someone becomes deaf due to menigitis.

Also, parents of children with CI are (or should be) more focused on menigitis, and any hint of the desease will be acted upon immediately. (Same for adults with CI of course)
So, awarenes among the parents of these children is much higher than that of other parents. For the latter, a flue is just a flue. For the firts, a flue could be menigitis..

More info

Quote:
Indiana University Health Center - Meningitis
How Many Meningococcal Meningitis Cases Occur Each Year?
The annual occurrence rate of meningococcal disease in the United States is 2.2 per 100,000. 1/3 of these cases are in children under the age of 5. Average mortality rates vary between 5% and 15% with early recognition and treatment being the crucial variables.

Children with Cochlear Implants at Increased Risk for Bacterial Meningitis News Article - Lawsuit news - Find Trial Lawyers and Attorneys with Experience in Children with Cochlear Implants at Increased Risk for Bacterial Meningitis News Article - Per
The study group involved 4,264 children who received a cochlear implant in the United States between January 1, 1997 and August 6, 2002, and who were younger than age 6 at the time of the implant.

A total of 29 cases of bacterial meningitis were identified in 26 children (three children had two episodes of the illness). Fifteen children had meningitis caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae. Less than one case of the disease would be seen in a group this size, during the same time period, based on the rates in the general population.

NEJM -- Risk of Bacterial Meningitis in Children with Cochlear Implants

CHS | News Release: Cochlear Implants and Bacterial Meningitis
“Over a period of 14 years, 52 cases of meningitis have been reported worldwide to Advanced Bionics Corporation and Cochlear Corporation. These have occurred in children and adults ranging in age from 21 months to 72 years who have undergone cochlear implantation for severe to profound deafness. A total of 12 known deaths have resulted from these cases. Two implant surgeons, Drs. Noel Cohen and Thomas Balkany, have recently surveyed cochlear implant centers and manufacturers in North America. They identified 22 cases (of the 52 worldwide cases) of meningitis. Nine cases were identified in patients with the Advanced Bionics CLARION device, 13 cases with the Cochlear Nucleus device, and no cases with the MED-EL Corporation device.”
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
My daughter . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI, here,or here.

Last edited by Cloggy; 10-10-2007 at 03:46 AM.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 06:49 AM   #71 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Kalista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 7,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
I feel that 7% is too many...

I know there're no 0%... but 1%...
Yes, I agree with you. I prefer 0%. I am extremely angry with many parents, they did not think more careful before they make the wrongful decision.

Unforunately, many doctors are pressure on the parents. They want the $$$$. grrrrrr
__________________


Enjoy the summer as much as we can. The times will fly !
Kalista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 07:05 AM   #72 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalista View Post
Yes, I agree with you. I prefer 0%. I am extremely angry with many parents, they did not think more careful before they make the wrongful decision.

Unforunately, many doctors are pressure on the parents. They want the $$$$. grrrrrr
I have not seen any parents here that made a wrong decision... Guess it depends on your perspective....

But from your perspective.... how do you know they did not "think carefully"?
Is it because... if they think carefully... then they will do it your way??

Kalista's answer: ................................................

And how much money does the doctor get??? Any numbers you can share, or is it just one of those Deaf culture myths that you try to keep alive??

Kalista's answer: ................................................
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
My daughter . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI, here,or here.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 10:28 AM   #73 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
CI-users in the article: 29/4264=0.0068 or 0.68%

Worldwide ocurance:for children (from general article..)

Using 16.8/100000= 0.000168 or 0.0168%. So it's quite a difference from this point of view. A factor 40.

But as said, there is higher occurance when someone becomes deaf due to menigitis.

Also, parents of children with CI are (or should be) more focused on menigitis, and any hint of the desease will be acted upon immediately. (Same for adults with CI of course)
So, awarenes among the parents of these children is much higher than that of other parents. For the latter, a flue is just a flue. For the firts, a flue could be menigitis..

More info
A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.
jillio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 10:34 AM   #74 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.
Oh, Jillio, you are soo right...

Do the parents know that?
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
My daughter . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI, here,or here.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 10:52 AM   #75 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
Oh, Jillio, you are soo right...

Do the parents know that?
Guess not....you didn't. And flu and meningitis prsent differently symptomatically.
jillio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 10:54 AM   #76 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Yeppers....
Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 10:57 AM   #77 (permalink)
Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 24,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.
Yes, thatīs right.
__________________

*sniffing you*
Liebling:-))) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 11:13 AM   #78 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
Guess not....you didn't. And flu and meningitis prsent differently symptomatically.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 11:16 AM   #79 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post

I think that means Cloggy finally gave up LMAO! I'm teasing...
Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 11:18 AM   #80 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel View Post
I think that means Cloggy finally gave up LMAO! I'm teasing...
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 11:23 AM   #81 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 7,777
Send a message via Yahoo to Maria
I was thinkin' the same thing when I first read in Cloggy's posts in another thread. He finally is learnin' somethin'.
Maria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2007, 11:33 AM   #82 (permalink)
Gravity Sucks
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,635
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to Cloggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria View Post
I was thinkin' the same thing when I first read in Cloggy's posts in another thread. He finally is learnin' somethin'.
Cloggy is offline   Reply With Quote