Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer - Page 6

jackiesolorzano · 09-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalboy

Psychologist? Attorney? Wow. That's a bit of overkill isn't it? I couldn't speak that well and I had interpreters through out middle and high school. Not once my hearing classmates made fun of me nor any other deaf kids in my school. My teachers said nothing but good things on my IEP.

Sometimes its better to stand out and be different than to struggle and fit in.

The reason we have an attorney is not for this issue it is because we have a pending due process case against the school district. We have won a cerdit for real time captioning and the school is appealing but it looks like the case is going to settle soon.

jackiesolorzano · 09-26-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I agree...I wish I had that all my life...be proud of being different instead of struggling all the time to try to fit in with hearing kids when I am not hearing.

I tried to install in my children the need to be proud of themselves. I have told them that we are different in one way or another. I have also told them that people that might fun of them are usually very insecure of themselves. I see my daughter becoming more and more proud of herself.

jackiesolorzano · 09-26-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I am sorry that your son had to go through this situation, and this is the age when mainstreaming presents the biggest problems socially for deaf kids. There are a number of reasons for this, and I don't have the space to gothrough all of that here. I do want to caution you, however, on bringing in a psychologist to address a group of teen-agers in that way. To address the entire class is to make the difference between your son and the rest of his classmates even more obvious. If there are those in the class that are prone to the kind of behavior that you spoke of, then making it even more obvious will jsut add fuel to the fire. Perhaps it would be better if the students who are quilty met with the counselor or psychologist one on one. I firmly believe in educating those who are misinformed regarding deafness, but the teen age years are very tricky times in dealing with issues such as this because of the developmental stages that a teen ager is going through.

When my son was in k-4 he was mainstreamed. At the beginning of every school year, I went in and addressed the class, passed his FM system around, told them how to get his attention, etc. It worked well. But these were also young children, and the younger the child, the more accepting they are of any kind of difference. They tend to see similarities at that age, not difference.

Of course, this is your child and your decision. I'm just trying to give you some benefit of my particular area of expertise.

I did the same thing you did go in every year and talk about it. Thank you for your advice, I will think about it. Honestly we have annual IEPs set up and really not sure what to do about this situation, maybe by the time the IEP comes I will have a better idea, but thank you I do see where there might be some problems.

jackiesolorzano · 09-26-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Good advice, Jillo!

I agree about the age differences having an impact on the attitudes. During my elementary school years, I really didnt feel that much different due to socializing thru play but as I entered 5th grade, it was when the serious problems started. Not only with socially but in classes too when the curriculm got much more complex and missing out on critical key information.

My middle school years were just PURE hell and I would never repeat them again if someone offered me a million dollars. It is not worth the money cuz my self-esteem about myself and outlook on my life was completely destroyed during those years. I cant ever repeat those years again. I would probably just shoot myself or demand to be transferred to a deaf school.

Shel, academically my son is not having any issues. His self esteem in the academic area is very strong. Honestly my son could really care less what other people think, he knows he is smart and he knows he is smarter then most kids.

**Angel** · 09-26-2007, 10:26 PM

I'm curious Jackiesolorzano, does your 2 CI kids know any signs at all?...if not what happens if they approach with other deaf children? how are they going to communicate with other deaf children like themselves?....Have you considered this?...Why can't we give them both languages and modes of communication? What's wrong with that? Why only oral?...I've always say "let the children be themselves and identify themselves for who they are!!"...

jackiesolorzano · 09-26-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I'm curious Jackiesolorzano, does your 2 CI kids know any signs at all?...if not what happens if they approached with other deaf children? how are they going to communicate with other deaf children like themselves?....Have you considered this?...Why can't we give them both languages and modes of communication? What's wrong with that? Why only orally?...Let the children be themselves and identify themselves for who they are!!...

Angel my kids were raised with only oral language thorughout elementary school. Once they had a solid foundation in oral language I did expose them to sign language. This happen in middle school. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language but more on a social level. My son was also exposed to sign language, his skills are much weaker but he thinks he has great skills. Both of my children have many friends that just sign. My daughter actually went to her first prom with a young man that only signs. She has this group of friends that she sees a lot and most only sign. My son's closest friend is from a Deaf family. My signing is not great but I can communicate with my children's friends.
I wanted them to be raise orally because I knew they would be able to learn sign language easily in their teen years.
Now if they choose to not use their voice this would be OK with me and my husband.

**Angel** · 09-26-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

Angel my kids were raised with only oral language thorughout elementary school. Once they had a solid foundation in oral language I did expose them to sign language. This happen in middle school. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language but more on a social level. My son was also exposed to sign language, his skills are much weaker but he thinks he has great skills. Both of my children have many friends that just sign. My daughter actually went to her first prom with a young man that only signs. She has this group of friends that she sees a lot and most only sign. My son's closest friend is from a Deaf family. My signing is not great but I can communicate with my children's friends.
I wanted them to be raise orally because I knew they would be able to learn sign language easily in their teen years.
Now if they choose to not use their voice this would be OK with me and my husband.

That's great, I was raise orally too and attend mainstreaming, and didn't learn sign language until later on, my parents wanted me to speak and use my voice more often, I had no problem with that because I wanted to make my parents proud since my parents didn't know how to raise a deaf child, and didn't know about the school for the deaf or sign language etc,...

I'm glad your two children are doing great, and very proud to know they both exposed to sign language...It looks like you know exactly what you're doing...

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No need to be impressed, but thank you.

I just did what a parent is supposed to do IMO. When you become a parent, your child's needs come first.

Absolutely...

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

A: as soon as the child is in it's toddler years, Don't you think a child should know it's own world too?

B: I'm not talking about moving to another town, but down the road in life, they might come in contact with the deaf community, my question is are you going to be prepare? Will you take your deaf child to Deaf Expos?

C: Doesn't have to be everybody, It is important to understand the full nature of your child, You as a parent should give your child many options as possible that including signs as well. In my view it is vital for parents to learn sign as another form of communication.

A: That's the answer to "when do you start".... but how long before a decision can be made to go for CI ??

B: What deaf expo's ?? How about letting my child meet other children with CI...???

C: No, I don't have to include sign. THAT's the whole point. She can speak, and probably lipreads very well. Why would she also need sign?
Learning Italian or Spanish would be more beneficial than sign.

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

From cloggy: should the parent move to another town to be closer to the Deaf community?

Answer: It is certainly a possibility. I did. In fact, I moved 3 states to provide my son with a Deaf school that would address his needs, and the large Deaf community that surrounds it. I personally felt that my son's needs took precedence over everything else in my life, and if that meant selling my home, moving, and finding a new job, then that's what I did.

Sounds all very noble etc. However, sounds to me that you dragged your child away from the friends and family that you allready had.
That is also a choice. Taking your child away from all the people that would like to meet him, and learning a language that these people will not understand is the result of it (or - can be..)

We made the choice for Lotte that she would grow up between our friends and family, and for her to be able to hear, and with that learn the language of her family, friends, and the language of all other people around her...
That's also a possibility..

Both of us feel we made the right choice. Both of our children are happy and well-adjusted... in their own worlds..

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The exploring is a life time journey, not an immedicate destination with a timetable.

True.... and it does not require deafness. A deaf person can do it while being able to hear.

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

..............
I guess what I do not understand is the philosophy that suggests that she, or any child, should be made to struggle? Why? Where is the logic, and as some would suggest, the compassion or empathy, in saying that it is permissible for a child to use HAs that do not help the child at all and for the child to struggle to learn to speak and to hear but it is not permissible for the child to use a cochelar implant which, for our daughter did allow her to speak and to hear? As parents we chose to possibly eliminate or to alleviate that struggle. We were not made any guaranties as to what the ci would do for our child and we both had done our research to know that there were no such guaranties. I guess in the end, we just have a different philosophy as to how to raise a child. Not better or worse, just different.
Rick

Perhaps:

"We were deaf,
We struggled with communication,
We learned signlanguage...
... and finally we could communicate with my own little group.
And therefore, the sooner the child learns sign, the sooner it can communicate with it's little group...

No need to make it easy for them to communicate with a large group... we tried that, and we felt miserable.
No reason why they should have it easier than us..."

Cloggy · 09-27-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why must a child be made to struggle to speak and/or hear at all?

It's not a struggle... It's mother nature...

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))
car is not a surgery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

But it sure can get you killed..... so why do you take that risk?

Quote:

jackiesolorzano's post
You are right car is not a surgery but it is much more dangerous then CI surgery.

mmmhhh I see that you both tried to compare car with surgery.

Okkkkaaaayyy..... Let's game... Let me ask you a simple question about traffic since you both brought the subject over car to compare with CI.

Did you know that we have warning signs for traffic?
Would you continue to drive and ignore warning signs?

I would not risk my life for ignore warning signs, don't you?

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 01:53 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

How long should the exploring in "both" worlds take?

We (deaf parents) exposed our boys to deaf and hearing world since they were babies instead of just deaf world because my both boy are hearing.

Quote:

Should a family move to another town in order to come in contact with Deaf community?

Like what Jillo said "When you become a parent, your child's needs come first."

We have many friends who live between 45 minutes and 3 hours away drive, my family and siblings live outside of Germany and my family-in-law live 5 km away... My children come first before them... We decide to move to another town where the better and safety place with good environment and atompshere for the hearing children upbringing, school, kindergarten etc.

Quote:

Should everyone around the child start to learn sign?

Why not? Our public sign doesn't affect my hearing boys... They accept what we are... *shrug*

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

So I read your post. Do you know how often these risks happen? I do in less then 1% of the cases. Life is a risk. Are you suggesting what that I try to hide my kids in the closet but even that is a risk since I live in southern California we have earthquakes. So hiding in my closet with my 2 deaf kids is still a risk.
I figure with rates lower then 1% that is a risk that we took and it sure worked out well for us.

Yes I agree that life is a risk. We risk our life everyday like that... only if we don't ignore the warning signs.... but... but... but... you can't compare surgery with Mother Nature.

All of that I accept your comparison and would like to ask you a question.

Would you accept to risk your life and continue to live at unsafety place when you know there're earthquakes, hurriance, etc comes time to time ?

I can't ignore the warning to risk my life and also my family's life but move away to safety place.

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

Angel my kids were raised with only oral language thorughout elementary school. Once they had a solid foundation in oral language I did expose them to sign language. This happen in middle school. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language but more on a social level. My son was also exposed to sign language, his skills are much weaker but he thinks he has great skills. Both of my children have many friends that just sign. My daughter actually went to her first prom with a young man that only signs. She has this group of friends that she sees a lot and most only sign. My son's closest friend is from a Deaf family. My signing is not great but I can communicate with my children's friends.
I wanted them to be raise orally because I knew they would be able to learn sign language easily in their teen years.
Now if they choose to not use their voice this would be OK with me and my husband.

That's great what and how you doing with your children is expose them in positive way... I am for oral and signing... both... to expose the children... Yes, that's right... it's up to children either they want just sign or not... or both...

Again, I read your posts and find great what and how you did with your children... I see no problem for that... I beleive in both oral and sign.

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 02:32 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

A: That's the answer to "when do you start".... but how long before a decision can be made to go for CI ??

See my response post on your previous post.

Quote:

B: What deaf expo's ??

Deaf club, festivals or community...

Quote:

How about letting my child meet other children with CI...???

Do you mean that you want your child to meet CI children only instead of let your child to involve with HOH, deaf and CI children?

Quote:

C: No, I don't have to include sign. THAT's the whole point. She can speak, and probably lipreads very well. Why would she also need sign?

Well, if you expose your child to CI, HOH and deaf children then Lotto will know what she really wants.

I would expose my deaf child to both world and learn my child's world when I were you.

If I as deaf mother has a severe handicapped child or hearing/deaf child then I would learn my child's world instead of pull them to my own world.

Quote:

Learning Italian or Spanish would be more beneficial than sign.

Look at me...
I have 4 languages...and few fluently language...

I know British and German sign language... and understand German lanaguges... I can do with ASL fluently. I know a little about European's languages... I moviate it myself to learn anything because I want it.

All what I have in my opinion.

**Angel** · 09-27-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

How about letting my child meet other children with CI...???

How about ALL children ( deaf, blind, HC, hoh, ci, etc )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

C: No, I don't have to include sign. THAT's the whole point. She can speak, and probably lipreads very well. Why would she also need sign?

because she is still deaf without her implant...and it's fun signing with other deaf children 2....let a kid be a kid

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 04:02 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

How about ALL children ( deaf, blind, HC, hoh, ci, etc )

What is that HC?

Yes, anything no matter what... I want my hearing children learn about them, no matter what...

Quote:

because she is still deaf without her implant...

Yes, that's right.

**Angel** · 09-27-2007, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

What is that HC?

handicapped children

**Liebling:-)))** · 09-27-2007, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

handicapped children

Ohhhh I see... that's what I mentioned handicapped child in my previous post... HC... I will remember it next time...

**shel90** · 09-27-2007, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

Cheri are you proposal to tell me how to raise my oral deaf children. Oral deaf kids can have just has much pride in themselves as ASL users. My daughter made a T-shirt on it says I am deaf and proud and I can hear and speak to you.

That's good and everything but my question is..(I know u said your kids know some signs) if oral deaf kids dont know ASL, how can they communicate with ASL users? Doesnt that create a communication barrier between the oral deaf kids who dont know sign at all and the ASL users therefore dividing them?

Growing up, I didnt interact with anyone from the Deaf community because I couldnt communicate with them. I think that really sucks cuz I could have made lifelong friends.

**shel90** · 09-27-2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

How about ALL children ( deaf, blind, HC, hoh, ci, etc )

because she is still deaf without her implant...and it's fun signing with other deaf children 2....let a kid be a kid

I agree with u but unfortunately too many hearing parents feel that signing is not needed. Like ASL is not important but to many deaf people, it is just as important just as much spoken language is important to hearing people. Seems like our opinions and values are not as worthy just because we are not hearing.

Geez!

**Cheri** · 09-27-2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I agree with u but unfortunately too many hearing parents feel that signing is not needed. Like ASL is not important but to many deaf people, it is just as important just as much spoken language is important to hearing people. Seems like our opinions and values are not as worthy just because we are not hearing.

Geez!

Yea true we are not hearing, but they're not deaf, their children are.

jag · 09-27-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

mmmhhh I see that you both tried to compare car with surgery.

Okkkkaaaayyy..... Let's game... Let me ask you a simple question about traffic since you both brought the subject over car to compare with CI.

Did you know that we have warning signs for traffic?
Would you continue to drive and ignore warning signs?

I would not risk my life for ignore warning signs, don't you?

oh it;s not that I would ignore the signal lights, it's the other driver who might and crash into me. Life includes risks driving is just as risky if not more then the CI surgery. The surgery only happens once, the car on a daily basis for most.

neecy · 09-27-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's good and everything but my question is..(I know u said your kids know some signs) if oral deaf kids dont know ASL, how can they communicate with ASL users? Doesnt that create a communication barrier between the oral deaf kids who dont know sign at all and the ASL users therefore dividing them?

I'd like to ask a question - just WHY is it so vital that a deaf child communicate with other deaf children? Why is the assumption automatically made that the child will have ACCESS to other deaf children right off the bat?

Yes, I went deaf when I was 9 years old, and NO, I didn't meet any deaf children while I was a child! Did my parents "prevent me" from meeting any? Far from it- we lived in a location that was more than 500 miles from the nearest deaf community. Traveling that far was out of question just to meet deaf children. I did know several deaf adults - but they communicated like I did - orally/lipreading. I didn't meet any deaf "peers" until I was 22 and went to RIT/NTID. Does that mean I was deprived in any way? Far from it- I had an incredibly happy, full life. Just realize - While communication with the deaf community is a good thing for a child (and not in the whole "deaf pride" aspect either - but to allow the child to meet others like them,) a child's happiness and wholesomeness does NOT hinge on their talking to other deaf children.

Quote:

Growing up, I didnt interact with anyone from the Deaf community because I couldnt communicate with them. I think that really sucks cuz I could have made lifelong friends

Is it not possible to make lifelong hearing friends? I did. I don't base who I become friends with on their deafness or lack thereof. I don't know anybody who would.

jillio · 09-27-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

I tried to install in my children the need to be proud of themselves. I have told them that we are different in one way or another. I have also told them that people that might fun of them are usually very insecure of themselves. I see my daughter becoming more and more proud of herself.

I did the same, jackie. But there comes a time in every child's life (when they are going through those difficult teen aged years) when they don't always hear what we, as parents are saying to them. That is the time that they need positive peer influences and other adult role models that they can relate to. One of the tasks of adolescence is to begin to separate from the parents and begin to develop their own identity and self concept. This si the time that the messages they receive from their peers and others becomes more important than the message that the partents are giving. Of course, what we have taught them in their younger years remains with them, and still has a subconscious influence, but it is mediated by so many other outside influences. This is a natural developmental step for them, and is actually healthy. We jsut have to change the way we influence. Less direct, if you know what I mean. All teen agers, deaf and hearing, go through this identity search. The goal that we, as parents have, should be to gently guide and support as they find their way. I know its tough to stand back and watch them struggle sometimes, but that struggle actually helps them find their independence.

**Kalista** · 09-27-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Well my opinion, hearing people have NO BUSINESS ABOUT THE CI!!!! Unless they are relative with a family member who are deaf.

One time I went to the mall looking for the sidekick, one woman was helping me looking for the sidekick, she asked me if I have CI. I'd told her yes, but I decide to pretend that I don't to just testing what was her reaction. So I told her no.

Guess what she did? She kept trying to convience me to get the CI and put my plan for the sidekick wait longer. She was very rude, she asked me why not I get it, I told her it's because I don't want to have surgery on my head, she look at me like I was stupid and told me she don't think there is such any risks, we continuing arguing about the CI for like 30 minutes, till I finally told her that I am not interest to work with someone who try to sell me the sidekick and begging me to get a CI. She quiet and I left the store.

I understand how you feel, ARGHHHHHHHH..... I wish I could've told her "Well it's better for hearing people to just sign without the surgery while we, the deafies, have to get through the surgical so we can finally learn talk, even probably it won't help us."

Those hearing people who think like that are just thinking deaf people need cure while deafies really don't need.

I would give my beautiful long middle fingernail at them.

jillio · 09-27-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackiesolorzano

Shel, academically my son is not having any issues. His self esteem in the academic area is very strong. Honestly my son could really care less what other people think, he knows he is smart and he knows he is smarter then most kids.

That is wonderful, and those are the strengths that will help him as he achieves this next developmental milestone. The only thing I would caution you in is keeping in mind that even though he may be giving the impression that he could care less what others think of him, chances are that is a defense mechanism for caring a great deal, but not wanting you to see how much it really does bother him. This has nothing to do with how you raised him, or the messages you gave him, but with a natural developmental stage. At this age, he is searching, and in his search, the opinions of others, specifically his peers, are extremely important to him in developing a positive self image. He needs the security of knowing that there are others in the same situation as him, and the guidance from other adults who have already gone through this search and their examples of how they resolved it. This is a tough time not just for the teenager, himself, but for the parent, as well. It is tough to let go and have faith that we have done our job well. But it is also necessary if our children are to develop into confident adults. Be there for him jackie, but allow him the freedom and provide him with a safe atmosphere to do what he needs to do to grow.

09-26-2007, 10:26 PM	#155 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 19,089	I'm curious Jackiesolorzano, does your 2 CI kids know any signs at all?...if not what happens if they approach with other deaf children? how are they going to communicate with other deaf children like themselves?....Have you considered this?...Why can't we give them both languages and modes of communication? What's wrong with that? Why only oral?...I've always say "let the children be themselves and identify themselves for who they are!!"... __________________ "When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

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