Designing A Hearing Baby - Page 9

jillio · 09-16-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemma

Exactly that is why I advocate all tools! Why must it be either CI or ASL ..cant they have it all? But in order to have more benefits with a CI, it needs to be implanted at a very very young age - same goes with learning sign language. So I do not agree with the viewpoint "Let a child decide and tell me when she/he wants a CI.".

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. I fully agree that it should be a full tool box, exactly like the one your neice is getting. Unfortunately, with so many hearing parents, CI is used as an either/or proposition for an oral environment. They opt for CI instead of ASL and exposure to the deaf community, not CI inconjuction with oral language, ASL, and exposure to the deaf community.

Maria · 09-16-2007, 08:07 PM

Anyone care to tell me what BiBi is ? I've never heard of that term before.

Koala · 09-17-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Anyone care to tell me what BiBi is ? I've never heard of that term before.

Bi-Bi is a short term for Bilingual - Bicultural.

Audiofuzzy · 09-17-2007, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Jillio:
Rather than attempting to reply item by item, I will simply make a blanket statement that covers everything you have just stated. You knowledge is quite obviously minimal at best. Your understanding of the issues is minimal. You are attempting to discuss a topic that you would do far better learning about than talking about. However, you have made it quite obvious that youhave no interest in learning, but simply in spreading some kind of innaccurate and ill informed message. I would suggest that you go back and re-read the posts to which you have replied here, but it would be a waste of both your time, as you have no intention of attempting comprehension. And, it would be a waste of my time as well, as I have no interest in atempting to explain to one who appears to be completely satisfied with thier ignorance.

How predictable. When cornered with arguments to which you finally have NO contrarguments for - because there are none - you resort to off topic insulting. Very characteristic for true ignoramuses. Indeed what else can I discuss with such a person.

Quote:

Cloggy and rick are not interpreting the posts the wrong way. They simply cannot particiapte in a discussion regarding the psycho-social implications of deafness becasue they do not have the knowledge to do so
All they can concentrate on is implantation and what a wonderful thing it is. Their focus is so limited that the only issue they consider is how much a child can hear and communciate orally. They are both too narrow minded to recognize that there is so much more tot he discussion. But that is only evidence of their audist attitudes. They refuse to see that deafness is not just the impairment of an indiviudals hearing. They are threatened by the fact that their children are deaf, and no matter what surgical intervention they choose for that child, their child will always be deaf. They both have issues, and they obviously have not reached a level of maturity necessary to develop empathy and understanding of that which is not exactly the same as they themselves are. It is useless to attempt to explain to either one of them the reality of the situation, or to offer them information that could improve their understanding and enrich their lives. To some people, ignorance is bliss, and these two posters are a perfect example of that. And they wonder why the deaf community has negative attitudes of hearing people. All they need to do is look in a mirror.

They are absolutely capable of understanding psychosocial implication of deafness. They are not afraid of their children's deafness - they give them gift of hearing and speaking, and neither is excluding ASL.
The mere fact that both of them participate here shows their interest in the deaf culture.
What you and other fail to understand, though, is this -almost everyone who replies to Cloggy's and Rick's posts is too often missing the point.
Hence their focus on maintaning clear and comprehensive information about CI, and returning and sticking to the SUBJECT.

Quote:

Cloggy -
Amazing....
A deaf person, that used HA's and now CI is sharing experiences, explaining differences,

If you talk about me, Thank you Cloggy.
However I must clear up one thing - I am progressive sensori -neural loss, brought up as "hearing" hence HoH but my audio showed (and shows) clearly early severe to profound hearing loss.
I have no CI implanted.
I have applied, but was denied as I was borderline with too good oral and listening skills. Before I applied for CI I educated myself on the subject. Big help was Beverly Biderman book "Wired for Sound". A few years passed since I applied, though, and I am sure now I would qualify.
But my migraine complicate the matter - the noise is a strong trigger for me. So, I am hesistant.

MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:

Maria: """That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since"""

Fuzzy: Better? how can you know? You have no way of knowing how CI would work for you unless you were implanted?

also,

Quote:

FYI, through my own experience I can give the answer. It's up to the parents to take my words for it or not. Without my experience, then I can not give the answer for them to know what it did in my life.

Cloggy asked you how do you know some other child wouldn't be sorry their parents didn't implanted him. You can not answer for OTHER CHILD.
you don't know how the other child might feel. It may feel different than you. That is the point. You don't mind, but other child might mind very much.

Quote:

A deaf child don't know what CI is out there UNLESS someone show it to deaf child and what CI is for. Understand

So, you think it's OK to lie to a child? "don't tell, don't cry"?

The problem is the child will grow up and learn about CI. Then the child will ask - ""I found out about CI - WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE ME A CHANCE ?! I hate it!! now is too late!!""

Rick48

Thanks, Rick. I could see thru her right away. She IS transparent.

SHEL:

Quote:

Arent there many adults who got CIs at a later age that have benefitted from them? This is what makes it confusing...if it is too late then why are there many CI users here on this board so happy about it and saying that they can hear better with it than their HAs?

Quote:

I have never worked with teenagers..always worked with kids that are between 4 to 9 years old. To why they were unable to benefit from their CI is a mystery to me cuz nobody would give me an answer.

Shel, it proves how little you know about CI.
I would suggest to read more on the subject, then you will understand why it is once come "the earlier the better" and sometimes "the late implantees get excellent results".
there is a very good reason for this, and easy answers. you just must WANT TO know them.

btw this is why I am so against you making statements like "I just see CI doesn't work". It's underinformed, manipulative, and misleading statement. and the last thing the deaf community needs is more confusion.

Liebling:

Quote:

Like what I said before - it will be okay if the parents positive their children about their deafness then they will grow up happily with no complication and feel positive themselves...

Quote:

Cloggy: This is not about accepting deafness. This is about the possibility to hear.

Exactly.

Being happy and accepting one's deafness has nothing to do with wanting to hear better.
CI is just a technology that is available, the only problem is that for children born deaf it's crucial to be implanted asap, and sadly there is too many misinformed and underinformed parents who lose forerver the best chances of their child hearing.

Quote:

I collect CI and HA users experiences - they said the same thing - they can phone and can speak well like HOH/hearing. To my view, I beleive that it has nothing do with CI or HA but the people themselves who are willing to learn anything and want to hear and speak development.

You are only partially right. Since you have no medical or biological background, you are unable to fully and properly asess your "data".
your data is correct in one aspect - that in order to reap benefits of either HA or CI one must work hard toward understanding sounds.
But no matter how hard you work,
if you have certain hearing loss HA will NOT work as well as CI.

Quote:

We deaf have no problem to accept what kind of world we have and also accept hearing people are as well and learn to understand where they come from but I can see that the hearing people have the problem to accept deaf people that´s because they have no patience to learn sign, write with paper & pen or speak slowly etc for them.

Ci or HA has nothing to do with "we deaf have no problems with accepting the word".
The world we are in is still HEARING. with people who don't want to sign or write.
Just the fact that hearing people have problem dealing with the deaf indicates the usefulness of such technology as CI, HA and oral skills.
Same way as visually impaired people use visual technology to their benefits.

Quote:

Do we have to do anything to learn for hearing world because they are real world?

What do you mean "do we have to do anything"?
What about TTY interpreters, ASL interpreters, closed captions, various devices for the deaf etc. Things are done for us too. Granted the deaf had to fight for it but so had any other handicapped for theirs - for wheelchair ramps, elevators in every building, extra wide entries, job protection, you name it.
But that is what happens in real world - when you are MINORITY you are easy to overlook, and unfortunately yes YOU have to try harder than the majority.

Fuzzy

PuyoPiyo · 09-17-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:

Maria: """That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since"""

Fuzzy: Better? how can you know? You have no way of knowing how CI would work for you unless you were implanted?

Well I felt the same as Maria. I tried to wear the CI for 4 months straight and it DON'T work out for me, I just realized that my body prefer to be deaf and I am very comfortable plus VERY HAPPY without the CI.

Quote:

also,

Cloggy asked you how do you know some other child wouldn't be sorry their parents didn't implanted him. You can not answer for OTHER CHILD.
you don't know how the other child might feel. It may feel different than you. That is the point. You don't mind, but other child might mind very much.

So, you think it's OK to lie to a child? "don't tell, don't cry"?

The problem is the child will grow up and learn about CI. Then the child will ask - ""I found out about CI - WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE ME A CHANCE ?! I hate it!! now is too late!!""

Hmmmmmmm I have lot of friends who are deaf and don't have CI. Two of my best friends who actually complaining about being deaf, while I got my CI, guess what they told me? "Yike! I am scare of surgical! You must be brave to do that. I would never do that and prefer to leave it as natural because I know the metal inside my head is not convience". I wish I was like them that reject the CI surgical produce.

Quote:

You are only partially right. Since you have no medical or biological background, you are unable to fully and properly asess your "data".
your data is correct in one aspect - that in order to reap benefits of either HA or CI one must work hard toward understanding sounds.
But no matter how hard you work,
if you have certain hearing loss HA will NOT work as well as CI.

There is some of people who prefer hearing aids over the CI, in the note.

Quote:

Ci or HA has nothing to do with "we deaf have no problems with accepting the word".
The world we are in is still HEARING. with people who don't want to sign or write.
Just the fact that hearing people have problem dealing with the deaf indicates the usefulness of such technology as CI, HA and oral skills.
Same way as visually impaired people use visual technology to their benefits.

Hmmm if there is no deaf people in the world, then there will be no jobs available such like the ASL interpreters, relay operators, etc. who earn the money for their living. If hearing people don't want to write or texting, then why THEY invent the text messaging, instant messaging, emails, etc that they don't really need while they can just use the phone.

Quote:

What do you mean "do we have to do anything"?
What about TTY interpreters, ASL interpreters, closed captions, various devices for the deaf etc. Things are done for us too. Granted the deaf had to fight for it but so had any other handicapped for theirs - for wheelchair ramps, elevators in every building, extra wide entries, job protection, you name it.
But that is what happens in real world - when you are MINORITY you are easy to overlook, and unfortunately yes YOU have to try harder than the majority.

Fuzzy

Having ASL interpreters, closed captions typers, etc. was the gift from us the Deafies to the hearing people to support themselve for their living. They should rather be thankful to us.

Audiofuzzy · 09-17-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Well I felt the same as Maria. I tried to wear the CI for 4 months straight and it DON'T work out for me, I just realized that my body prefer to be deaf and I am very comfortable plus VERY HAPPY without the CI.

You were implanted rather late- at 19,

Quote:

No lol I got it last year at my 19th age

and you wore Ci for only 4 months??? no wonder it was a failure for you.

perhaps if you were truly dedicated to learn how to use CI then after a year or two of HARD WORK you would aprecciate it better.

btw - what were you thinking when you wanted to be implanted? you thought it's like you wake up and bingo bango you hear?
also, were you born deaf, or...?

Quote:

There is some of people who prefer hearing aids over the CI, in the note.

That might be so, but that has nothing to do with how both of these work (differently)

Having ASL interpreters, closed captions typers, etc. was the gift from us the Deafies to the hearing people to support themselve for their living. They should rather be thankful to us.

Not everybody want to be an interpreter etc, though.

Fuzzy

PuyoPiyo · 09-17-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

You were implanted rather late- at 19, and you wore Ci for only 4 months??? no wonder it was a failure for you.

perhaps if you were truly dedicated to learn how to use CI then after a year or two of HARD WORK you would aprecciate it better.

All I see you is that you was pressuring deaf people to wear the CI till they finally used with it which is unfair. Also I was in speech therapy for 4 years during my school times with the hearing aids and only was best at reading lips.

What's more, I can see your ignorant attitude while I was being so honestly.

Quote:

btw - what were you thinking when you wanted to be implanted? you thought it's like you wake up and bingo bango you hear?
also, were you born deaf, or...?

Fine I am going to repeat my "Deafness biography". Here I go.

I was born pro-founded deaf, my parents haven't found out till I was about 1 and half years old. So my parents and I was learning the sign language and done it very wonderful and very happy without surgery, struggling to get used, headaches, inconvience metal inside my head, whining about the CI, etc that I am having the experience right now.

When I was about 5 or 6 years old, my parents was thinking about getting the CI for me, but my parents heard other little girl was having lot of problem with the CI surgical on her head, her head was growing, she got headaches every night, she crying all the times, etc. It scare my parents away from the CI. I do remember look at the brown machine thingy and I thought it was cool just because it was label as "FM" like my mom workplace Fred Meyers Marketplace and I wanted it. While I look back there from now, what was surprised me is that my parents NEVER tell me what it is for or about the surgical or anything, which pissed me off but was very thankfully to my parents to let me decide whatever I want when I get older.

Anyway, I wore the hearing aid instead from my age of 3 to 12, and always arguing with my parents because I don't want to wear it and there is no point for me to wear it, till I took the speech class at my 9th age, and oddly I read lipping better compare to listening from my hearing aids. So I decide to stop wearing the hearing aids at my 12th age, and continue taking the speech class till my 13th age, the speech teacher told me that I am good at read lip and are comfortable with that than wearing anything on my ear.

Thus, I should've really keep what my speech teacher said to me in my mind before I undergo the surgery for the CI.

Anyway, from 13th to 19th age, I always signing, never have problem with being deaf, even I was good student equalized with other hearing people during my high school. I DID fight with the staff who works with deaf students because I don't want to go to special education, somehow my fight was a failure, but lucky the teacher at special education let me go to the library as study hall instead, I want to go to the same as hearing students went, I did very hard work, till I ended up graduated very normal as other hearing people graduated without anything that I need to done before I receive a diploma. During those times, I never think about CI, not even once.

Till I became 19 and went to the Japanese class, I was really into it. I thought maybe if I can get the CI so I can learn how to speak Japanese language, so I went got CI and it was terrible for me, most of things I got CI is regret. Reason why I regret to have the CI:

*Giving me headaches just like the hearing aids even though I turn it very down.
*Sounds kept coming out inside the area between my nose and mouth which are hurtful that make me feel like want to get it off. The audiologist said it's because my brain don't know where to put the sounds.
*The metal on my head is not convience AT ALL. Everytime I itch my head, I barely feel my skin, my ear rings all the times if I itch or shake my head or brushing my hair or whatever which are very annoying.
*Change my relationship to my family members because some of them kept begging me to wear the CI makes me feel like don't want to see them again. I feel like they have no respect for "me", but only desiring for me to just "hear".
*Believe those lies what the audiologist said about the CI such like can talk and hear through the phone, radio, music, etc. which does not work for me.

Finally only thing that I actually benefit from the CI is:

*Playing with it just for fun, it's just a toy.

Quote:

That might be so, but that has nothing to do with how both of these work (differently)

Ohh I see how ignorant you are about those people who have individual experiences that other people should know about.

Quote:

Not everybody want to be an interpreter etc, though.

Fuzzy

lol ofc not everyone

there is only 3 million deaf people in America which are probably only 5-10 percent of the population, probably more less than that. I don't think the government really spend that much for the deafies at its size, also I don't think there is many interpreters or relay operators or whatever because of the deaf community's size. Oh did we forgot, hearing people DO use the closed captions too!

Other than that, I read one of your post, you don't have the CI. While you don't have CI, it shouldn't be your business and you have no reason to get involve into the CI situations, but taking it up to make the drama.

shel90 · 09-17-2007, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

How predictable. When cornered with arguments to which you finally have NO contrarguments for - because there are none - you resort to off topic insulting. Very characteristic for true ignoramuses. Indeed what else can I discuss with such a person.

They are absolutely capable of understanding psychosocial implication of deafness. They are not afraid of their children's deafness - they give them gift of hearing and speaking, and neither is excluding ASL.
The mere fact that both of them participate here shows their interest in the deaf culture.
What you and other fail to understand, though, is this -almost everyone who replies to Cloggy's and Rick's posts is too often missing the point.
Hence their focus on maintaning clear and comprehensive information about CI, and returning and sticking to the SUBJECT.

If you talk about me, Thank you Cloggy.
However I must clear up one thing - I am progressive sensori -neural loss, brought up as "hearing" hence HoH but my audio showed (and shows) clearly early severe to profound hearing loss.
I have no CI implanted.
I have applied, but was denied as I was borderline with too good oral and listening skills. Before I applied for CI I educated myself on the subject. Big help was Beverly Biderman book "Wired for Sound". A few years passed since I applied, though, and I am sure now I would qualify.
But my migraine complicate the matter - the noise is a strong trigger for me. So, I am hesistant.

MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:

Maria: """That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since"""

Fuzzy: Better? how can you know? You have no way of knowing how CI would work for you unless you were implanted?

also,

Cloggy asked you how do you know some other child wouldn't be sorry their parents didn't implanted him. You can not answer for OTHER CHILD.
you don't know how the other child might feel. It may feel different than you. That is the point. You don't mind, but other child might mind very much.

So, you think it's OK to lie to a child? "don't tell, don't cry"?

The problem is the child will grow up and learn about CI. Then the child will ask - ""I found out about CI - WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE ME A CHANCE ?! I hate it!! now is too late!!""

Rick48

Thanks, Rick. I could see thru her right away. She IS transparent.

SHEL:

Shel, it proves how little you know about CI.
I would suggest to read more on the subject, then you will understand why it is once come "the earlier the better" and sometimes "the late implantees get excellent results".
there is a very good reason for this, and easy answers. you just must WANT TO know them.

btw this is why I am so against you making statements like "I just see CI doesn't work". It's underinformed, manipulative, and misleading statement. and the last thing the deaf community needs is more confusion.

Liebling:

Exactly.

Being happy and accepting one's deafness has nothing to do with wanting to hear better.
CI is just a technology that is available, the only problem is that for children born deaf it's crucial to be implanted asap, and sadly there is too many misinformed and underinformed parents who lose forerver the best chances of their child hearing.

You are only partially right. Since you have no medical or biological background, you are unable to fully and properly asess your "data".
your data is correct in one aspect - that in order to reap benefits of either HA or CI one must work hard toward understanding sounds.
But no matter how hard you work,
if you have certain hearing loss HA will NOT work as well as CI.

Ci or HA has nothing to do with "we deaf have no problems with accepting the word".
The world we are in is still HEARING. with people who don't want to sign or write.
Just the fact that hearing people have problem dealing with the deaf indicates the usefulness of such technology as CI, HA and oral skills.
Same way as visually impaired people use visual technology to their benefits.

What do you mean "do we have to do anything"?
What about TTY interpreters, ASL interpreters, closed captions, various devices for the deaf etc. Things are done for us too. Granted the deaf had to fight for it but so had any other handicapped for theirs - for wheelchair ramps, elevators in every building, extra wide entries, job protection, you name it.
But that is what happens in real world - when you are MINORITY you are easy to overlook, and unfortunately yes YOU have to try harder than the majority.

Fuzzy

Pls..I know more about CIs than u think. Besides u dont have one so u dont know wht it is like to have one. U made so many assumptions about so many people. We all have different views. I respect your view but I have my own. If u and others dont like it, that's ok.

Maria · 09-17-2007, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:

Maria: """That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since"""

Fuzzy: Better? how can you know? You have no way of knowing how CI would work for you unless you were implanted?

You didn't read my WHOLE posts from the start. Go and re-read them again.

also,

Cloggy asked you how do you know some other child wouldn't be sorry their parents didn't implanted him. You can not answer for OTHER CHILD.
you don't know how the other child might feel. It may feel different than you. That is the point. You don't mind, but other child might mind very much.

You STILL don't get it. Go and re-read my posts again.

So, you think it's OK to lie to a child? "don't tell, don't cry"?

Go and re-read my posts again.

The problem is the child will grow up and learn about CI. Then the child will ask - ""I found out about CI - WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE ME A CHANCE ?! I hate it!! now is too late!!""

Fuzzy

And, again you STILL don't get it. I would suggest you to please RE-READ my posts again from the beginnin'. Read them CAREFULLY. Please, DON'T make assumptions. Ok ? And, also please respect others' opinions/POV/experiences as I've asked every AD member to do the same.

Maria · 09-17-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koala

Bi-Bi is a short term for Bilingual - Bicultural.

Ah, I got it. Thanks !

Liebling:-))) · 09-17-2007, 06:52 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

What's more, I can see your ignorant attitude while I was being so honestly.

Unfortunlately yes, I has to agree with you on this. I have seen some people are too closed mind to see the fact what we have experiences in real life. All what they think is we are anti-CI which is not true.

Quote:

Fine I am going to repeat my "Deafness biography". Here I go.

I know, I know... I had been repeat the same thing as you as well... Our posts are being ignored and think we are closed minded and wrong or whatever

Quote:

When I was about 5 or 6 years old, my parents was thinking about getting the CI for me, but my parents heard other little girl was having lot of problem with the CI surgical on her head, her head was growing, she got headaches every night, she crying all the times, etc. It scare my parents away from the CI. I do remember look at the brown machine thingy and I thought it was cool just because it was label as "FM" like my mom workplace Fred Meyers Marketplace and I wanted it. While I look back there from now, what was surprised me is that my parents NEVER tell me what it is for or about the surgical or anything, which pissed me off but was very thankfully to my parents to let me decide whatever I want when I get older.

I would do the same as your parents... It's too scary to risk my baby's life with CI surgery. I have to accept the risk to let the doctor to have surgery to save my child's life but CI? I would not risk my child's health life for that CI that's because I want my child to hear and speak... what's the wrong with HA then?

Quote:

*Giving me headaches just like the hearing aids even though I turn it very down.
*Sounds kept coming out inside the area between my nose and mouth which are hurtful that make me feel like want to get it off. The audiologist said it's because my brain don't know where to put the sounds.
*The metal on my head is not convience AT ALL. Everytime I itch my head, I barely feel my skin, my ear rings all the times if I itch or shake my head or brushing my hair or whatever which are very annoying.
*Change my relationship to my family members because some of them kept begging me to wear the CI makes me feel like don't want to see them again. I feel like they have no respect for "me", but only desiring for me to just "hear".
*Believe those lies what the audiologist said about the CI such like can talk and hear through the phone, radio, music, etc. which does not work for me.

Finally only thing that I actually benefit from the CI is:

*Playing with it just for fun, it's just a toy.

Thank you for share your experience with us. It's an exactly what my friend said the same thing about noise... She complaint more and more...

Quote:

Ohh I see how ignorant you are about those people who have individual experiences that other people should know about.

*nodding agreement* I have seen the same as you as well.

Quote:

Other than that, I read one of your post, you don't have the CI. While you don't have CI, it shouldn't be your business and you have no reason to get involve into the CI situations, but taking it up to make the drama.

AMEN!!!! It look like that she ignored CI users who shares their bad experience and has big and good listener to CI users who shares their positive experience... It look like that she take only one side...

PuyoPiyo · 09-17-2007, 07:34 AM

[quote=Liebling:-)));838616]

Quote:

Unfortunlately yes, I has to agree with you on this. I have seen some people are too closed mind to see the fact what we have experiences in real life. All what they think is we are anti-CI which is not true.

Yupp of course it is not true. CI users saying the negative things about the CI does not make them a anti-CI. Even though myself I do have some positive side of CI but won't admit to Audiofuzzy due to her attitude.

Quote:

I know, I know... I had been repeat the same thing as you as well... Our posts are being ignored and think we are closed minded and wrong or whatever

*sigh* I guess you are right, those people think we are closed-minded, while the CI stuff is part of the Deaf Community and it was us the Deafies who should talk about it

Quote:

I would do the same as your parents... It's too scary to risk my baby's life with CI surgery. I have to accept the risk to let the doctor to have surgery to save my child's life but CI? I would not risk my child's health life for that CI that's because I want my child to hear and speak... what's the wrong with HA then?

Exactly, I am total with you! Should leave the baby be till it grew up and understand stuff, find what the baby really desire for. Haha of course, what's wrong with the HA while it don't have surgery required.

Quote:

Thank you for share your experience with us. It's an exactly what my friend said the same thing about noise... She complaint more and more...

No problem

Yeah I know some of my friends who are unsafisy(sp?) with the CI, some of them said that sounds are like too robotic.

Quote:

AMEN!!!! It look like that she ignored CI users who shares their bad experience and has big and good listener to CI users who shares their positive experience... It look like that she take only one side...

Yupp, one word, selfish.

Thank you for the reply

Liebling:-))) · 09-17-2007, 08:36 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

How predictable. When cornered with arguments to which you finally have NO contrarguments for - because there are none - you resort to off topic insulting. Very characteristic for true ignoramuses. Indeed what else can I discuss with such a person.

Opposite to me, from reading the posts, I know that you & Jillo are very intelligent people but I see the problem is you and Jillo see differently. To me, you take ADer's posts personal and focus on CI instead of take cons/pros between HA & CI on both sides. You ignore other sides and think we have no idea on anything but Jillos doesn't. Jillos want to understand everything between deaf and hearing but you don't want to understand. Jillo could be different person when there're insult/disrespectful/bash posts instead of polite debate. I could be bitch sometimes either. You also, too. It's not just Jillos but you, me, Cloggy, Rick48, other ADers as well.

Quote:

They are absolutely capable of understanding psychosocial implication of deafness. They are not afraid of their children's deafness - they give them gift of hearing and speaking, and neither is excluding ASL.
The mere fact that both of them participate here shows their interest in the deaf culture.
What you and other fail to understand, though, is this -almost everyone who replies to Cloggy's and Rick's posts is too often missing the point.
Hence their focus on maintaning clear and comprehensive information about CI, and returning and sticking to the SUBJECT.

I can see from posts here that we respect Cloggy's & Rick48's decision on their child when we see different as them. I see the problem that we are being belittle by you including them because you think you know everything than us and think we have no clue about CI issues when we saw in real life. It would be nice when we share our agree/disagree debate in polite way like adult instead of belittle each other and prove each other wrong... I would love to have anyone to open their mind to agree/disagree and convince me why.... because it's good education for us to learn anything... I learn from Cloggy from his threads and websites about her daughter... I don't care either Cloggy's daughter has CI nor HA but I find wonderful what and how he & his wife did to their daughter is teach her to speak and hear and also learn to sign language and also deaf community as well. It's mainly important to me.

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If you talk about me, Thank you Cloggy.
However I must clear up one thing - I am progressive sensori -neural loss, brought up as "hearing" hence HoH but my audio showed (and shows) clearly early severe to profound hearing loss.
I have no CI implanted.
I have applied, but was denied as I was borderline with too good oral and listening skills. Before I applied for CI I educated myself on the subject. Big help was Beverly Biderman book "Wired for Sound". A few years passed since I applied, though, and I am sure now I would qualify.
But my migraine complicate the matter - the noise is a strong trigger for me. So, I am hesistant.

Interesting... Why do you claim that Shel90 has no clue or know a little about CI and take our posts personal when you has no clue what CI is about or not even collect or share the experience with CI & HA users in real life? All what I see is you are on website's side against people's experiences because you think websites or whatever are right and people's wrong. You has no clue what is about.

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MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:

Maria: """That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since"""

Fuzzy: Better? how can you know? You have no way of knowing how CI would work for you unless you were implanted?

also,

Cloggy asked you how do you know some other child wouldn't be sorry their parents didn't implanted him. You can not answer for OTHER CHILD.
you don't know how the other child might feel. It may feel different than you. That is the point. You don't mind, but other child might mind very much.

*sigh* I see NOTHING wrong that Maria share her view, opinion and belief. She did not say anything what she know but share her advice and suggestion. It's UP to us either we can take her advice/suggestion or not instead of take her post personal.

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So, you think it's OK to lie to a child? "don't tell, don't cry"?

The problem is the child will grow up and learn about CI. Then the child will ask - ""I found out about CI - WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE ME A CHANCE ?! I hate it!! now is too late!!""

I can't see the sense what/how could we lie to a child... I already explained Cloggy in previous post about positive over their deafness...

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Rick48

Thanks, Rick. I could see thru her right away. She IS transparent.

See yourself what you said this.

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SHEL:

Shel, it proves how little you know about CI.
I would suggest to read more on the subject, then you will understand why it is once come "the earlier the better" and sometimes "the late implantees get excellent results".
there is a very good reason for this, and easy answers. you just must WANT TO know them.

See? You think you know everything when you don't have CI or not even collect CI & HA users's experiences... but prove them wrong and belittle them...

*Repeat sigh* CI & HA users CAN speak and hear with their OWN WILLING. They would have no mood to learn anything when you FORCE them to do... Mainly important is positive them why you beleive in and why you think best and support them...

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btw this is why I am so against you making statements like "I just see CI doesn't work". It's underinformed, manipulative, and misleading statement. and the last thing the deaf community needs is more confusion.

See yourself what you said here... really sad... You accused anyone negative like you did to me in other thread and think we are manipulative, misleading, or whatever... There're no confusion but the fact... we need to listen both sides before we made our decision.

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Liebling:

Exactly.

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Being happy and accepting one's deafness has nothing to do with wanting to hear better.

You interpreted my post in wrong way. I never said that... I said that it's up to each person who accept what he/she is.

If they don't want to learn to speak or hear then is their decision...
If they want to wear HA and learn to speak and hear then is their decision.
If they want to have CI out of curious then is their decision.
If they want to have CI and learn to speak/hear then is their decision.

It's mean is that they are happy and accept what they are... that's what I am trying to explain. Please don't twist it.

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CI is just a technology that is available, the only problem is that for children born deaf it's crucial to be implanted asap, and sadly there is too many misinformed and underinformed parents who lose forerver the best chances of their child hearing.

Yes, I agree that CI is a technology but HA is also, too. It depend on parents who have their time and patience to educate their child earlier to expose with speak/hear development - no matter either HA or CI.

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You are only partially right. Since you have no medical or biological background, you are unable to fully and properly asess your "data".
your data is correct in one aspect - that in order to reap benefits of either HA or CI one must work hard toward understanding sounds.
But no matter how hard you work,
if you have certain hearing loss HA will NOT work as well as CI.

It depend on person's willing and want to learn anything with sounds and speak... I have seen many HA users who can speak and phone like HOH long time before CI comes.

I have met many late deaf in spa last year. They decided for HA (special HA - mould inside their ears). They are happy with their decision... Some decide for CI because they are happy. It's about their own willing with no force from anyone.

You think CI are only who can help children to hear and speak which I respectfully disagree. Let me share the example:
Computer do nothing because you can't do anything to add something in the computer.
Computer do something only if you add something to create in the computer. It's an exact same with HA or CI... The HA or CI children will do NOTHING without parent's support/education. The parents feed their HA or CI children with speak/hear development. It depend on different child who is willing to learn anything or lazy to learn anything... It's same with hearing people as well...

Without their own willing, HA or CI will not works.

That's why I leave my child's choice. I will support if he/she has strong willing to learn anything.

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Ci or HA has nothing to do with "we deaf have no problems with accepting the word".

accept the word? I never said it. You interpreted my post in wrong way. I said that we deaf have no problem to accept what we are and kind of world we have which mean is we accept hearing world where we living at.

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The world we are in is still HEARING. .

So? I already stated that we accept hearing world.

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with people who don't want to sign or write.
Just the fact that hearing people have problem dealing with the deaf indicates the usefulness of such technology as CI, HA and oral skills

Sad fact that hearing people are ignorant and uneducation. They should amshamed themselves that we deaf accept what they are and learn where they come from and have good patience with them.

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Same way as visually impaired people use visual technology to their benefits.

So? I already stated that hearing people should accept what we deaf are and have different as them. We are happy what we have...

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What do you mean "do we have to do anything"?

I mean that we deaf (HA & CI users) do anything to learn for hearing is speak, hear, etc for them because they expect us to be like them and feel comfortable that we speak/hear for them which is really sad. They have to accept the fact that we are different as them but we learn and accept what they are at long, long, long time ago but them. It shows their uneducation and ignorant.

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What about TTY interpreters, ASL interpreters, closed captions, various devices for the deaf etc. Things are done for us too. Granted the deaf had to fight for it but so had any other handicapped for theirs - for wheelchair ramps, elevators in every building, extra wide entries, job protection, you name it.

Of course I know... So? I already said in previous post that we accept what we are and lead different as hearing people but we accept what hearing people are but they have the problem to accept what we are. Like what Puyo said "If hearing people don't want to write or texting, then why THEY invent the text messaging, instant messaging, emails".

I remember few of closed minded and ingorant co-workers complaint to my boss that they lose their waste time to walk to me or email to me because I can't phone. I asked him a question front of my boss: Do you have problem to use email, walk to computer room to use fax or walk to my office? and then look at my boss - then question him "Did you see me complaint that I walk to his or anyone's office for discuss about work issues or for not have fax machine in my office but just email"? I rather to walk because it's good execise for me than email to them. All what I see is that they complaint that I can't phone...

(I feel like to say to them *get up and walk instead of stick his lazy a** on the chair and whines over phone* but I didn't). They are speechless...

Now they know what I am - we get on well with no problem for over 15 years now...

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But that is what happens in real world

Oh yes, we aware since our birth what kind of real world we have. It doesn't bother me. So? Hearing people have to accept the fact that we are different as them.

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- when you are MINORITY you are easy to overlook, and unfortunately yes YOU have to try harder than the majority.

I would say that you need to open your mind to see the fact on both sides and accept their experiences instead of belittle and prove them wrong. I would sa

09-16-2007, 08:07 PM	#242 (permalink)
Maria Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 8,110	Anyone care to tell me what BiBi is ? I've never heard of that term before. __________________

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