Designing A Hearing Baby - Page 6

jillio · 09-14-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Bullies who are pompous arrogant know-it-alls who believe their way is the only way irritate me even more.

I'll match you one for one anytime.

You're projecting.

rick48 · 09-14-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why yes, I can say that. You are the one that takes the thread to a place it never goes without your input. You are an instigator, and an ignorant and pompous one at that.

Eh... what was that a few posts back about resorting to personal insults?

No, I am just someone who you can't talk down and has the experiences you can't refute and you can't stand that.

Match experience, let's see I've raised a child with a cochlear implant 24/7/365 for over 18 years and been actively involved with ci people for almost 20 years. You can't even understand the fact that for profoundly deaf people the loss of residual hearing is a non-issue as it is the very reason why they are eligible for cochlear implants. Don't need credit from you for it is worthless.

nitey-night

PS Still waiting to learn about that surgical procedure that makes deaf children hearing. Also how we made our hearing daughter deaf through lingusitic restrictions.

Maria · 09-15-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

See, this is where you show - again - that you have the wrong idea about CI. One cannot choose the CI over a HA. When a HA works, there's no need for a CI. And the normal procedure is still that a HA has to be used first, and when it's obvious that there's no benefit, THEN a CI can be considered.
So please. READ about CI, instead of just accepting Deaf "facts" about CI....

Where did I state about choosin' the CI over a HA ? HA don't require a knife. CI requires a knife. And, I am against CI because of usin' a knife on a baby or toddler ( still a baby ). And, what's more - there's evidence that the CI patients did mention that the CI don't work to help them to be able to HEAR. I've seen them statin' that in some threads. You can not say that the CI WILL benefit to help. I don't think it ever will.

Was it an option in that (what year?) time?
Did your parents consider it?

No, my old doctor recommended them to use HA and sent me to a private school to learn how to talk. My parents don't know what to do at that time when they discovered that I was deaf. When I reached the age of 11 years old, my old speech therapist told my parents that I was close enough to become HoH. I was only 11 years old ! Can you imagine that ? I was wearin' HAs ( both ears ) for 8 years. If, I continue wearin' them, then I will become HoH at the age of 21 for sure. That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since I don't like the idea of usin' knife and carvin' up on the baby's head at that tender age. My head is still good and healthy without touchin' nerves. I don't need complications and that will save my parents from heartaches.

SO, you mean it's in the childs interest to learn ASL, so that it can communicate with less than 0.02% of the people that actually do speak the language. It will have a hard time communicating with the other 99.8% that does not speak ASL....
And this is good for the child - because???

Yeah, why not ? And, no I don't think it will have a hard time communicatin' with the other 99.8% that does not speak ASL. All the USA knew about Gally, right ? Gally is a famous college. Many of them are usin' ASL and they supported it as their first language.

And about "Why put CI first before language ?".... you still don't get it... CI allows the child to have a language... Just like ASL.

How is that so ? Care to elborate it ?

Parents that choose for CI for their child, make the choice that the child will grow up with a language. And not a language that is only visual but cannot be written, but a language that can be spoken, written and cued.

If, you believe that.... can you show me a link with a video ? Show me a deaf child with CI and that he/or she can sign, speak and write. I want you to prove it to me. I want to see it with my own eyes.

And - here's the scary part....

Some parents will also use signlanguage with these children...
Scary.... Children with CI that can hear, speak AND sign....
Have you ever thought that possible...????

Now, please... have a look beyond "deafness only"..

Show me a video.

Audiofuzzy · 09-15-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

In whose judgement is it as good as nothing? Especially in the case of infants, it is impossible to predict how well a child will be able to use that residual hearing until they have reached certain developmental stages,

First of all, what is residual hearing? when we talk about CI we talk about minimal amount of residual hearing, practically useless amount. keep it in mind while discussing it.

So, in whose judgement? In common sense judgement. And in the case of infants, it actually is possible to predict how well the child will be able to use that residual hearing- just take a look around. how many of those who were born deaf or with siginificant hearing loss suddenly turned around and become hearing? or even- their hearing improved greatly since then?
with sensori - neural loss, if anything the hearing gets progressively worse with time.

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and that requires chronological advances.

And that is exactly why it is so important to implant before these advances happen and finalize.

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You can have 2 profoundly deaf individuals who test out to the same degree of residual hearing.....one is able to learn to use that residual hearing through HA and develops speech and listening skills.

He also may hear and speak far better thru CI than thru HA with this residual..

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If you implant a child at the age of six months, you do not know that they will not have benefited from HA and AVT.

Either way, the child will hear with CI, highly likely that it will hear much better than with HA. there is no loss in any way.

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Shel has no agenda where CI is concerned, other than the effects it has on the education of deaf children. Simply because she points out the negative effects it has had on some of her students doesn't mean that she has a hidden agenda.

So why is she "pointing out"?? innocently? I don't think so. she points out "negative" effects because???
And the supposedly "negative effects" most likely have roots in lack of proper therapy afterwards (after implanting) or too late implanting.

Quote:

Those who are attempting to portray CI as the miracle cure for deafness are the ones with the agenda.

Those who understand how the CI work NEVER portray it as "miracle cure". On the contrary, all of those who have some basic knowledge about CI point out THIS IS NO CURE, and IT DOES NOT RESTORE hearing.
Actually, it's you and the likes of you who try to portray CI as "miracle cure that fails".

Quote:

Not careful enough.

more careful than you are, anyway.

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Hearing aids do not provide the same level of benefit to everyone, and the fact that you would even make such a false statement is indication of your total lack of knowledge onthe subject

HA absolutely offer, or provide, the same level of benefit - the same way all 60 watts bulb provide the same amount of light to anyone, or the way all Subaru Legacy provide the same horsepower to everyone.
How is one going to use a 60 watt bulb or Subaru Legacy is different matter.

you didn't understood the meaning of what I've said.

Quote:

Obviously, you are not fluent in ASL. And English can be learned at any time, as well. The second part of your statement is based on an oral/audist philosophy.

No I don't know ASL but this is visual language and while I am not saying it's easy-peasy to learn I am saying it's easier to learn to sign than to learn to differentiate sounds and learn to speak, especially for an adult.

Quote:

Actually, I speak. I'm not deaf.

Oh, you speak. So you DO communicate the way the hearing people communicate. you don't speak from the totally deaf experience.

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But my son who is deaf communictes with hearing people all the time. If necessary, he will speak. He can also use pen and paper, text pager, or interpreter. Voice is not necessary.

Oh I see. Voice is not neccessary but still SOMETHING ELSE is, huh? either pen and paper, or interpreter (who can SPEAK and HEAR) or text pager. Wouldn't it be easier if your son could simply hear and speak more than he does now thanks to CI?
this does not stop him from being culturally deaf. it just simplify life for him.

Quote:

And I will thank you to keep your sarcastic, insulting remarks regarding non-verbal communication to yourself.

How was I insulting? you told me other ways of coummunication are: vibration, odours, and other. I simply wondered how you can use those while communicating with hearing, non- signing person.

Quote:

What about it?
I'm assuming that you are unable to answer the question.

Or I see it pointless. anyway, CAN YOU answer?

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy · 09-15-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Cloggy:And how do you know a deaf child will not hold it against his parents that he did not get the possibility to hear.?

Maria: Because, I know. Look at me, I am deaf and I don't hold it against my parents that I don't get the possibility to hear.

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

Simple answer is:

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?

I will be back to make further posts couple of hours later.

Audiofuzzy · 09-15-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?

I know that. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE wouldn't mind the parents decision of NOT implanting. Just because Maria doesn't mind doesn't mean all of deaf or HoH people feel the same.
As for me - I accept who I am but if I was offered a chance to hear better I would take it.
How about you - if you had choice, would you rather hear or be deaf? be honest.

Fuzzy

Maria · 09-15-2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Simple answer is:

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?

I will be back to make further posts couple of hours later.

You are correct.

Maria · 09-15-2007, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

Yeah ! I know ME through my own experience as bein' deaf. I want to share my experience. I prefer " deaf " rather than usin' CI to make me to hear. I don't think it will work that way. CI is NOT my first language. CI is not " hands " to learn ASL. CI is for " voice " and THAT voice is not ASL. That's different.

That ASL is for the eyes to read and understand through the hands, not CI.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's another advanced technology comin' than CI's ... meanin' somethin' else they invent better than CI.. gee, it would be wasted for those who want somethin' new. Let's just say for example:

First, people bought Nintendo and then, when a new game technology comes, there's Playstation and, then Playstation 2 and then 3 and so on... and now there's Wii. The CI will do the same thing in the near future and I think it is foolish to replace somethin' else repeatly in every time when somethin' new comes up. So such a waste ! I think it is too much.

Cloggy · 09-15-2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes, cloggy, refusing to allow a child with impaired auditory function access to language through the visual sense to compensate for the impaired auditory sense, even when aided with CI, is linguistically restricting. Do you understand it now?

Who is "refusing".??? If our daughters do not feel the need for sign... who are you to force that upon the child - or parent...

Cloggy · 09-15-2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

...............
I wouldn't be surprised if there's another advanced technology comin' than CI's ... meanin' somethin' else they invent better than CI.. gee, it would be wasted for those who want somethin' new. Let's just say for example:

First, people bought Nintendo and then, when a new game technology comes, there's Playstation and, then Playstation 2 and then 3 and so on... and now there's Wii. The CI will do the same thing in the near future and I think it is foolish to replace somethin' else repeatly in every time when somethin' new comes up. So such a waste ! I think it is too much.

Well, at least that's a new argument..

So, you compare CI, around before most of the computers, with computergames that are changed out every 5 years.
Actually... it's a good comparison.
Look at how fast technology is going ! !
New developments make it possible to upgrade systems constantly. New software making the system better every time. Imaging the difference between a CI 10 years ago and a CI now. And the beautiful thing is: the electrode under the skin is capable of following the trend for a long time. When the processor is upgraded (remember... PS-1, PS-3, PS-3, WII etc) the processor with the electrode can be upgraded as well.
That's wonderful news. Glad you brought it up...

You say - "such a waist" - but what kind of computer are you using.
Please tell me you are using the computer from 10 years ago, because you seem to think all the upgrades are a waist..
So, tell me please - what kind of computer are you using?

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The implant is not always successful. What then?

Unfortunlately yes!!! It doesn´t work on some CI users. They shared their experiences with me in real life. I posted the stories about them in some threads. Some CI users are also members here & other forum as well and share their experiences. Unfortunlately, their posts are being ignored which is really sad.

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The whole point is that you have to teach a deaf child to hear.
And if you think that exposing a child to ASL is the easy way out, you have no clue what it is to raise a deaf child in a bilingual environment. If you think changing a home environment to accommodate the deaf child by learning a new language, making sure that all environmental sounds are made visual, and making sure that all communication is visual is easy, you are woefully uninformed on the issues. I take it you are not a parent, and are also post lingually deafnened.

Excellent post!!!!

I would like to share my knowledge about my friends who wear HA all in their life since they were 6 months old since you mentioned "The whole point is that you have to teach a deaf child to hear."

My friend´s parents wear her and his brother HA as soon as they can after found out they are deaf when they were 6 months old. They speak like HOH and can phone with no complication. (I repeated it in my previous posts in several threads - unfortunlately my posts about them are being ignored). They thank their parents to have their time to teach them and show them to hear the sounds with HA... My friend is now 48 years old and speak like HOH/hearing. They rejected my suggestion to consider CI and said that they are happy what they are. I learned from some friends, I met at 5 weeks spa last year and must say that I am really glad that my friend & her brother rejected my suggestion over CI issues. Some can speak like HOH as they wear HA all their life... It´s not necassary to have surgery to hear better.

A lady, I met at Spa last year - she was HOH all her life and can hear anything with HA.... and can phone... until the doctor influenced her to consider CI to hear better... Guess what? She lost her HOH to CI due different sounds after CI surgery. It took her 6 years to train to hear/understand the sounds after CI surgery. She recommend anyone that if anyone who lost their hearing to 100% then is right for CI surgery, not few % HOH... but 100%

I would do the same as my friends´s parents if I found out my child is deaf instead of "rush" to consider CI...

Cloggy · 09-15-2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

No, my old doctor recommended them to use HA and sent me to a private school to learn how to talk. My parents don't know what to do at that time when they discovered that I was deaf. When I reached the age of 11 years old, my old speech therapist told my parents that I was close enough to become HoH. I was only 11 years old ! Can you imagine that ? I was wearin' HAs ( both ears ) for 8 years. If, I continue wearin' them, then I will become HoH at the age of 21 for sure. That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since I don't like the idea of usin' knife and carvin' up on the baby's head at that tender age. My head is still good and healthy without touchin' nerves. I don't need complications and that will save my parents from heartaches.

Amazing... I just explained to you that .. if you can hear with a HA, you don't need a CI. It is not the choice between one or the other.
My daughter could not hear with a HA.!!
So, YOU do not qualify.
Are you so against CI because you do not qualify? Is that it?

Why can you not be happy for deaf children that can hear with a CI - like you can hear with a HA??

Video: Have a look at Lotte's website. Look for a video there....
Ah, what the hell. With your non-upgraded system it might take a while... here's a link...

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Yeah ! I know ME through my own experience as bein' deaf. I want to share my experience. I prefer " deaf " rather than usin' CI to make me to hear. I don't think it will work that way. CI is NOT my first language. CI is not " hands " to learn ASL. CI is for " voice " and THAT voice is not ASL. That's different.

That ASL is for the eyes to read and understand through the hands, not CI.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's another advanced technology comin' than CI's ... meanin' somethin' else they invent better than CI.. gee, it would be wasted for those who want somethin' new. Let's just say for example:

First, people bought Nintendo and then, when a new game technology comes, there's Playstation and, then Playstation 2 and then 3 and so on... and now there's Wii. The CI will do the same thing in the near future and I think it is foolish to replace somethin' else repeatly in every time when somethin' new comes up. So such a waste ! I think it is too much.

This is a prefect example and comparison.

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Amazing... I just explained to you that .. if you can hear with a HA, you don't need a CI. It is not the choice between one or the other.
My daughter could not hear with a HA.!!
So, YOU do not qualify.
Are you so against CI because you do not qualify? Is that it?

Why can you not be happy for deaf children that can hear with a CI - like you can hear with a HA??

Video: Have a look at Lotte's website. Look for a video there....
Ah, what the hell. With your non-upgraded system it might take a while... here's a link...

I hope you don´t mind me to ask you some questions since you mentioned that HA doesn´t work on your daughter. Yes I read your website about your daughter but I didn´t find where I can read. I am here to ask you question... Can you link me some to match my questions here if I might overlook it?

Can you please explain why HA does not work on your daughter?

How old your daughter was when you & your wife found out about her deafness?

How old is your daughter when she first wear HA?

How long your daughter wear HA before have a CI surgery?

The reason I am asking because many parents are being influence by the doctors that CI is better & sucessful with hear fast than HA which is not all true. Look at some parents are disappointed that CI doesn´t work on their child.

To me, it´s mainly important is take time and patience if the parents really want to help their child instead of "rush" their child with surgery because they think CI is fast and easier than HA.

Liebling:-))) · 09-15-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

I know that. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE wouldn't mind the parents decision of NOT implanting. Just because Maria doesn't mind doesn't mean all of deaf or HoH people feel the same.
As for me - I accept who I am but if I was offered a chance to hear better I would take it.
How about you - if you had choice, would you rather hear or be deaf? be honest.

Fuzzy

Maria never say EVERYONE but herself. I see nothing wrong when she want to share her own experience and opinion. I must say that Maria is not first person who says this.

Anyway, remember that each person entitle his/her own POV and see what they beleive in.

Well, for me... - I accept what I am for a long time. My parents positive me about deafness that´s why I don´t hate about myself and deafness. I guess I would complaint or unhappy about hear again when I received negatives over deafness but I was raised to receive the positive about deafness that´s why I really never, never thought about want to hear. I am happy with HA, I had for years until I quitted to wear HA at 20 years ago. I am happy with no complaint.

My parents went to doctor for advice after found out I am deaf when I was one year old. The doctor advised them positive way about deafness, that´s time CI was not around. Deaf school, sign language, learn speak, etc... They do not need to worry because I can do anything like hearing people except hear... - train to hear with HA...

Now the doctor advised the parents to consider CI ... Is it too simple for the doctor to give the parents at present time?

I asked my Dad last year about CI issues... I was like

when Dad told me that he would of implant me with CI after learn from doctor at present time. I asked him why? He said that he like to whisper my ear... *mmmhhh*

shel90 · 09-15-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Maria never say EVERYONE but herself. I see nothing wrong when she want to share her own experience and opinion. I must say that Maria is not first person who says this.

Anyway, remember that each person entitle his/her own POV and see what they beleive in.

Well, for me... - I accept what I am for a long time. My parents positive me about deafness that´s why I don´t hate about myself and deafness. I guess I would complaint or unhappy about hear again when I received negatives over deafness but I was raised to receive the positive about deafness that´s why I really never, never thought about want to hear. I am happy with HA, I had for years until I quitted to wear HA at 20 years ago. I am happy with no complaint.

My parents went to doctor for advice after found out I am deaf when I was one year old. The doctor advised them positive way about deafness, that´s time CI was not around. Deaf school, sign language, learn speak, etc... They do not need to worry because I can do anything like hearing people except hear... - train to hear with HA...

Now the doctor advised the parents to consider CI ... Is it too simple not like the doctor advised my parent at my time?

U know it is funny...10 years ago, I would have probably had the same view as Audio fuzzy but since learning ASL, I view the same as u and learned to adapt without being able to hear well. Growing up up until 10 years ago, I hated my deafness and it was my dream to hear normally but now that dream has changed thanks to learning ASL. I am just more appreciative of what I have instead of focusing on what I dont have. I cant hear..no biggie and not the end of the world. There are far worst things in life, in my opinion.

jillio · 09-15-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Eh... what was that a few posts back about resorting to personal insults?

No, I am just someone who you can't talk down and has the experiences you can't refute and you can't stand that.

Match experience, let's see I've raised a child with a cochlear implant 24/7/365 for over 18 years and been actively involved with ci people for almost 20 years. You can't even understand the fact that for profoundly deaf people the loss of residual hearing is a non-issue as it is the very reason why they are eligible for cochlear implants. Don't need credit from you for it is worthless.

nitey-night

PS Still waiting to learn about that surgical procedure that makes deaf children hearing. Also how we made our hearing daughter deaf through lingusitic restrictions.

Exactly, rick. Your experience is limited. And your mind is so closed that you are incapable of recognizing exactly how limited your experience is.

Your comment re: residual hearing...quite obviously you have no understanding of the way in which residual hearing can and does operate inthe individual, nor of the many variables that affect its functional use.

I've already explained the PS to you. And I explained that you did not make your daughter deaf, not is she hearing. She is deaf with a CI. And you did not make her deaf, she acquired her deafness prelingually. You simply managed to restrict her opportunities through linguistic restriction.

And, given your examples, you have a lot of catching up to do if you want to match my experience, knowledge, and education. Better get started.

shel90 · 09-15-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Exactly, rick. Your experience is limited. And your mind is so closed that you are incapable of recognizing exactly how limited your experience is.

Your comment re: residual hearing...quite obviously you have no understanding of the way in which residual hearing can and does operate inthe individual, nor of the many variables that affect its functional use.

I've already explained the PS to you. And I explained that you did not make your daughter deaf, not is she hearing. She is deaf with a CI. And you did not make her deaf, she acquired her deafness prelingually. You simply managed to restrict her opportunities through linguistic restriction.

And, given your examples, you have a lot of catching up to do if you want to match my experience, knowledge, and education. Better get started.

My dB level is 120 in both ears but I rely on the little residual hearing I have heavily to communicate with hearing people. Without my HAs, I cant hear cuz my hearing loss is so severe. However, many audis I have encountered get shocked by how well I use the little residual hearing I have. I guess I was wired to a more auditory approach than my brother was. LOL!

jillio · 09-15-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My dB level is 120 in both ears but I rely

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