WBHarley

But I do have CI on my left ear.. for Last 6 years I am thankful that I made a right decision to get one.. and NO im not gonna be an Audism or whatever...
I am in BOTH world! I will hang out with my deaf friends.. and I will hang out with my hearing friends I never denied anyone... Except for anyone who can't respect me for who I am...

I always respect for people who doesnt like ci or anything but if they say something that doesn't make sense! i do correct it. I will always say It failed for SOME and it does NOT FAIL for some!


Wendy

Deafness

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Liebling:-)))

I am sorry that HA doesn´t work on you which it does work on others.

What about CI? Have you thought about this?

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jillio

Yes, it does benefit some people, and we all admit that. For those who ar able to use a CI successfully, it is a wonderful piece of technology. I do not disagree with that. But, as you said, it does not benefit all. And the young students who have ben implanted, andhave not been able to use their CI successfully for whatever reason, are the ones that shel works with. Those kids deserve an education as much as anyone. And parents considering a CI also need to know that there are children who are not able to use the CI successfully. They need to see both sides of the story if they are going to make an informed decision for their child.

highlands

I'm not qualify for a CI currently.

jillio

These are some very good questions, deafskeptic, and probably best answered by someone who specializes in biological medicine. It sounds as if there is some sort of allergic reaction or rejection going on, and that would be dependent upon the individual's immune system functioning.

jillio

Exactly, Liebling. They can't seem to answer the question. Oh, well. Their not answering is an answer. Says a lot. doesn't it?

jillio

Actually. statistics are very easily manipulated, and the graphs are based on statistics.

jillio

No,that's not what she is saying. She is saying that testing performed in a laboratory or controlled situation does not always apply to real life because in real life too many extraneous variables cannot be controlled for.

jillio

BINGO!

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Sorry, I do not see that you are trying to say for example but admit that your daughter correct your word and wonder why your hubby didn´t let you know... You said the same thing to your mother as well... They thought they let you do on your own which you can´t correct yourself without anyone´s help/support and then share your example of speak "flavor" when you want to say "fever", but your daughter said that you said "flavor".

[QUOTE]Yes I know. I never say that your daughter have to or should help you. I only said that it´s great that your daughter show and correct your word which mean is she do it voluntarily for you.

Yes, they should (it doesn´t mean that they HAVE TO or MUST) but should or could...

Yes I know what you mean. They (speech therapy) help me to correct my speech twice a week at school which is not much. My parents are suppose to correct my speech and spend their time to train with me but they doesn´t. They neglect their time with me... Oh Well... I am good to read everyone´s lips. I can image myself if my parents have their time to train with me then I would of speak like HOH/hearing and then will consider CI myself but I do not have moviate myself enough that´s why I know for the sure that CI is not for me. That´s why I am for the parents who help/support/feed the speech, sounds, etc to their children at early age with HA or CI. (depend on children either HA nor CI works on them) and also work together with Audogist how to help the child.

You said that you had CI for 6 years and pick many words without look at anyone´s lips - nobody correct your word until last year then your daughter correct you... Correct? I want to make sure either I understand you correct or not.

Yes, like what I said before that it´s great that your family helped you voluntarily.




I will answer part of your post later because we have an appointment with Bank today.

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rick48

As to the article itself, since you are always mentioning but never citing research and studies, surprised that you have not responded. Since I favor personal observations and experiences over studies and research, no comment is necessary from this corner but in any event R2D2's response however said it best.

As to his "curious observation" about the educational levels of oralists, guess since none of them have responded to it, it goes to show you that they are intelligent enough not to respond to such an idiotic observation.

But since you are wondering why there are no responses to a foolish question, wonder what that makes you?

flip

That was my point, thanks for supporting it.

Audiofuzzy

Now Liebling let's not go crazy with the "facts not correct" theme because of Flip's article, OK?
just because something is a "fact" does not mean it is suspicious on principle.

It's one thing to be wary of a few million scientific studies another to say "it's a fact the sun is bright". or are you going to argue now that the sun being bright is not correct fact, too?

I said: turns out Puyo couldn't wear CI. So Puyo couldn't exercise, exercise, exercise hearing with CI. remember what the other poster said: "I am 40 but my brain is like 2- 3 year old, I have to learn how to hear with CI" ??

That is why I said maybe if Puyo was not having problems with his mouth and headaches, THEN maybe he would use CI more and more, and more, and with time he, too, could learn how to hear over the phone.
we won't know it because he can't use CI. but it's possible it WOULD be better.
that is why I said Puyo don't know if the CI would work better for him or not because he can't spend more time on it. he only spend 4 months wearing it. not Puyo fault.




Yes, but you have to first learn to separate many layers surrounding speech and language development.
You must separate them,and dicuss them separately or we will never clear this up.
From biological point of view, human brain is NOT finished developing AFTER birth. I mean the body of the brain (in the head) is done, but the processes that happen inside the brain are not.

When the baby is born, the brain is making neural pathways connections, thus is developing.
this happens regardless of any parental intervention, it is just a part of human development.


BUT

the brain will develop as much as much it receives stimuli from the outside.
the more stimuli, the more developed brain. to develop ability to hear and speak you need to hear sounds, and so you repeat what you hear, and thus develop speech.

This is when the CI and parents enter.

Without ability to hear, no matter what will the parents do the deaf baby will not hear, and the baby's brain will not make neural connections.
After the age of three the making of these connections slow down and eventually stop. No matter how much stimuli AFTER that age - the brain is mostly finished making connections. It won't learn much anymore. It will some but never as much as before age of three.

If the deaf baby is implanted with CI, then the baby can hear.

If the baby is implanted before the age of three, the brain will make as many connections as the baby will hear sounds from the outside - because the brain is still in the actively developing mode.
Now, if the baby will only be implanted with CI but not be exposed to sounds - then the baby will hear some but not as much as the baby who will spend a lot of time in hearing therapy.

If the deaf baby will not have CI, or only HA before the age of 3, then the baby will not hear antyhing or only as much as HA allows. Thus no matter how much parents will work the baby's brain will not be developing as much sounds as in the baby with CI.

That is why it is important to understand first the process of human development from purely biological point of view, before start mixing it with raising a baby.

Do you understand me now?





The gender changing surgery is not done for under 18 years old anyway. Unless it's medical matter requiring immediate decision.
besides this is completely different situation - it has nothing to do with brain developing senses before age of 3.. and anyway I only was asked "what would I do if". I support both in those cases.



I am sorry but I don't get you. I am saying some deaf people can not hear with HA because their hearing loss is too great. But they can hear with CI (if implanted).





Again, you must separate the subject of discussion because I am confused - what are you discussing, exactly? the technological POV or practical POV?
I was talking about technology. Only.
From technological POV the simplest CI is way more advanced than most advanced HA. because HA can only amplify sounds while the CI does more than that.
From practical POV of course just putting either CI or HA in there is not enough to have benefits.


Correct, but also don't forget about human development from biological POV.


Oh, I see you do know that



?????



Correct, but again from "biological" POV they do hear every sound that surrounds them. Just because their parents are deaf are unable to speak doesn't mean they do not produce ANY sounds. On the contrary deaf people can be very noisy - they watch TV loud, they move about making a lot of sounds, majority of deaf people do have some ability to speak so they do communciate verbally with their babies (googoo, coo etc) and so on.
the baby hears all that, and also if you take your baby anywhere - shopping, playground, doctor's office -anywhere - the baby IS exposed to sound.
so the conenctions in the brain DO happen, just not in as optimal way as of the baby's with hearing parents. and like you say they catch up later well. I knew that.

I have seen that happen many times, and without exception all the children were able to develop speech.

That is great! you are a great parent.



As you probably read about human development by now, I would say yes just hearing is what matter most. any sounds.



No, I do accept all, it's just I like to have explanation why something is not working as it should. was it because the child was born deaf and implanted past the age of three? was it because it was implanted before the age of three but not taught speech and sounds immediately? was the hearing loss more pronounced than it was first thought? was the adult implantee willing to work as hard as it is needed? was the body rejecting implant? is the hearing loss type not right for the CI? etc.
Not every implanted person is well infomed about all this. For example, some people didn't knew it will be so much hard work to learn to hear.
Some don't understand the importance of early implantation.

Correct, but if the child can't hear all the parental work in the world won't help. One depends on the other.

Fuzzy

R2D2

I don't think anyone here disputes that. It depends on the severity of your hearing loss. If you have a moderate to severe loss then yes, it's possible for such HA users to use the phone. But such people don't qualify for CIs anyway and will find it hard to get one.

If you have a profound loss however, HAs usefulness declines significantly and CIs begin to have the edge in terms of clarity. It's not common for profound HA users to be able to use the phone. With my HAs I could not use the phone because my loss was just too big, but with my CI, I now can.

Anyway, just about every child and adult who goes through the process for a CI is required to trial hearing aids first, unless they are so obviously completely deaf. I tried out two different hearing aids before I had my last operation. With my first CI, I was made to put on my hearing aid for the test, even though it was really painful for me to wear it due to recruitment. We are then tested for speech discrimination with our hearing aids on. If a person does well with hearing aids then he or she will not qualify for a CI.
Insurance companies and governments do not want to shell out money for CIs for people who don't need them.

__________________


Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006
Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom

Cochlear implant myths

R2D2

Perhaps you missed my response?

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Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006
Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom

Cochlear implant myths

jillio

Not you.

rick48

That's just Jilliospeak for I have no counter argument so rather than admit you are right, I'll just insult you.

Taken the research methods course as well as 4 or 5 courses on statistics.

Please tell us how sign language skills are relevent to a test of whether a deaf person with a cochlear implant can hear someone speaking bisyllabic words WITHOUT any visual clues?

Cloggy

Or could it be that since the first time of a childs life, hearing is very important in order to develop speech. Starting to hear will delay that phase for 1 to 3 years, so speech therapy is used to catch up...

After all, people that became deaf later in life and used CI speak without any problems...... According to your thinking, that indicates that "CI gives perfect hearing".....

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Cloggy

Of course there's a difference with every child. And Lotte might be doing very well, or she might be average, or lacking.

BUT, in a study like the one I showed, there kind of differences would be averaged out. Because, the same as you suggest for Lotte and another child is valid for the children in the other columns. Over there there are also children that are doing great with their CI, and some that perform below that.

The graphs show the avarage performance. And THAT shows a gignificant difference between early implantation, and later..

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Cloggy

True. It's easy to lie with statistics. That does not mean all statistics lie.
Then again, it's also easy to show real differences with statistics.
And, when the differences are this big, like in the graph I showed, it can hardly be due to statistics. It is due to the results...

And again, it's interesting that when an article shows something YOU don't like, you bring up "statistics are very easily manipulated".... Without any foundation as to why the article / statistics could be wrong... It's just a cheap shot at an article you don't like
I haven't seen you questioning statistics you have brought up...

Let's face it. The article clearly shows the benefit of early implantation. YOU might not like it, but there it is.

But for parents of a deaf child, the first first decision they have to make for their child is to have the child grow up with - or without sound.
If the decision is to have it grow up with sound, research like this is helping them in making the decision about WHEN to implant...

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Audiofuzzy

Fuzzy

Liebling:-)))

Why?

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Yes I know what you mean. If you train to hear the sounds without looking or reading, your brain level work like 2 years old. It's good to know that you are willing to work hard to train to hear the sounds for 6 years. What do you feel how brain level you are now after 6 years training... I mean your brain level after 6 years training.?

Similar example with me -

I left England to live in Germany when I was 22 years old in 1985. My brain level is one to two years old when I struggle to understand German language (read/writing/speak). I willing to work hard to learn German. It took me 6 month to familiar with German atmosphere and languages after moved to live in Germany... Now I am 44 years old and feel that I am German and have good German level as English level as well. I use German language with my family and use English and German at work place.

I beleive that you will have brain level as adult when you keep work hard...


Yes I second that. If you are happy with your decision then go for it.

Remember, that the age is only number... As long as you are fit and healthy...



Wish you best of good luck

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Liebling:-)))

Exactly, that's what I repeated in my previous posts.

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Audiofuzzy

You are amazing !

Fuzzy

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE][QUOTE]No, it's not first time I said this - I did said this at debate threads several times in the past when the posters claimed that they beleive in fact is websites, etc..

I never say that scientific studies are alway wrong or 100% wrong but "not alway correct". Get it?

Remember, each person is different.

Well, I personally beleive it's about human's motivation itself. Like what I said before, CI cannot work itself if a person didn't moviate enough.

Anyone cannot force a person to learn to hear the sounds, etc or whatever when he or she don't have good motivation enough.

Puyo is not only first person who say this... I know people want to have CI out of curiousity or for gratis because they know Healthcare pay 100% for them... After that they are regretted... Some work great on them and some not.

Puyo did not get information enough from his Audiologist. He would not have CI if he know it's work hard to train to hear the sound/speech development.




Language and speech development has nothing with CI or HA itself but people themselves.

Yes I know that speech and language development should be separate. I notice that some posters claimed that CI help deaf to develop speech and language skill which it's not true.

Yes I aware it.

Yes I know what you talking about.

Like what I said before that it's depend on bad or good enviornment to develop babies like this. No matter either HA or CI itself help...

Let me tell you the example: A little girl, my youngest son's child-minder (who developed him with speech skill) foster. Child-Minder told me sad story about her. She has a healthy brain and can hear but she can't talk and can't hear... She was being neglect by her own mother.

Okay, see this link -

Tim become Kim at the age of 14!!


It's same thing with HA as well.



Now you know that...


No, it's me who repeat those word in previous posts but you kept on change and disagree with me until you said that I do know that...


You understood my post... See your respond this...





Not alway.


for compliment because I accept what they are when I know they are different as me.


To me, most important is good moviation to develop in good way with the help from their parents.

Yes, I know that Cloggy already showed me 4 pictures... but it still make no difference...

IF my parents implanted me with CI and neglect their time with me... and think I can do by my own... I would not speak like HOH/hearing no matter either I wear CI nor HA. Sure, I can hear... what???... haaaa bird sing... what? haaaaa fly... etc... - with no moviation enough.

Yes, that's right... see above....

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Liebling:-)))

but I alway still learn everyday when something new come like everyone.

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WBHarley

Liebling


Thank you for wish my luck

deafskeptic

Her country has more stringent requirements than than my country does. If I lived in her country, I wouldn't qualify either.

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Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

Angel

Highland is a male not a female

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller