knightwolf68

http://www.msnbc.com/news/931300.asp?0na=x23012M1-


Help for the hearing impaired

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Learn more about cochlear implants and how they are helping people with hearing loss by exploring these sites.

OVER 28 MILLION people in this country have hearing loss. Over 20 thousand of those individuals have received a cochlear implant — a device that helps the deaf to hear. The cochlear implant was approved for adults in 1985, and for children 18 months and younger in 1990. Four years ago, the device was approved for children as young as a year old. But as more and more states around the country adopt infant screening for hearing loss, younger and younger children are receiving the implant surgery. To learn more about cochlear implants, explore these sites:

COCHLEAR IMPLANT ASSOCIATION
www.cici.org

THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF THE DEAF
www.nad.org

ARKANSAS CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL
www.ach.uams.edu







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i just post here doesn't make me support the C.I at all but just thoughtful some of u want to read this ...

otherwise i am still angry to see that young kids to get C.I. as i consider that threat to deaf culture as endanger !!! thats why I totally oppose that idea .. but i still respect ppl who make the choice for what they want to be ... so it suit fine ... It is ur choice not me !!

Deafness

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Alex

Thanks for the 411, Knightwolf. I'm sure others will find the info useful.

Tousi

It is really difficult to be totally against the CI for children when its a well-known fact that a toddler's brain plasticity is such that they pick up things/learn much much quicker, esp as it relates to spoken language. To say that the child who was implanted at an early age without his/her input is ridiculous. Responsible parents make the choices for the child. Just to add a wee bit of levity to such a sensitive topic, how many of you parents refuse to change your baby's diaper until the baby expresses the desire to have it changed?

Kalista

I removed make no sense previously message....from his quote...

toddler's brain plasticity is such that they pick up things/learn much much quicker, esp as it relates to spoken language.

:sure: Thier speak sounds like a monkey like I do... They always speak as Deaf voice !!

The children should wait until they become older to make their own choices. It is their bodies. It is not emergency to do surgery their metal head with device stuck with wire on their adorable heads.

:madfawk: Medical society oppressed to the parents !!

Tousi

Sabrina, I don't understand what you are saying...can you be a little more clear?

Freaky

Sabrina.. you're like a broken record.. saying the same thing over and over again.
Sabrina.. you need to do your damn research before you assume anything negative about CIs! Remember CI is a choice and everyone is entitled to their right to a CI whether you like it or not!

SilenceGold

Let's try to keep this discussion all under one thread instead of spreading it all around the board.

You can also read what many of our replies about the choices of CI...Sabrina has been taking part in this discussion there too.

signingcat

Sabrina--
Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but your post was not understandable. The grammar alone gives many parents the REASON they want their children to have cochlear implants and to learn English...so their grammar is not as bad as yours is.
I teach high school deaf students and most of them can write better. I am also the parent of a deaf child with a CI...and we do sign with him too. He is doing great and I have no regrets. Children learn more quickly than adults and their brains adapt much better. Please do your research.
Mary

pbpara

I do not have a cochlear implant and do not want one, but that doesn't mean my grammar is bad, either. If you work on it hard enough, it CAN happen...

deafdyke

Mary, that's GREAT that most of your deaf high school students can read and write relatively well. Perhaps there's hope yet for literacy in ASL/ TC programs! I wish ASL/TC programs were viewed as prestigiously as oral deaf programs, by the general public and by parents.
Mary, the reason why Sabrina (and many other Deafies) write in English so poorly is b/c they approach it as a foriegn language! Research has shown that deaf kids make the same sort of grammertical/syntax errors that speakers of other languages make! It's not just Deaf people (and not just ASLers...LOTS of oral deaf kids have poor literacy as well)
Look at a paragraph written in English by someone whose native language is Spanish. Doesn't it look like a lot of ASLer's written expressive language. I am suprised you did not know of that research seeing as you're a TOD!

deafdyke

That's very true. There's nothing wrong with implanting kids. Implants do NOT represent a threat to the deaf culture. Implants just help deaf kids function somewhat in the hearing world. It doesn't make them hearing! Lots of implanted kids ID as Deaf....I remember Little Pitty saying once that most of the implantees she sees Sign AND speak!

signingcat

I do know that, but I also have worked with kids who have been raised with a CI and are ON LEVEL with their peers. In fact I have a freshman this year who has a CI and is mainstreamed for everything. She also does sign(SEE2, which is what we use at our school not ASL) and her mom is an interpreter. In fact, she is actually reading above grade level and is in a journalism class.
There is another student that I monitor who utilizes his hearing aids very well. He has no interpeter and is taking AP classes as well as Latin.
I don't think the CI is the the total answer to for any deaf child, I do think it is a lot of things. It is parental involvement, age when chid is diagnosed, level of loss, etc. Most of my kids will always need assistance when writing. We are still working on grammar at the high school level. Sadly only a few of my parents sign well and I think that is a hinderance to these kids. I also have a few deaf adult friends, who still ask me to look over their papers. However none of these people have ever written as poorly as Sabrina did in her first post.
My statement is that MANY parents who know nothing about ASL will be totall turned off by someone whose GRAMMAR is SO POOR as to write what Sabrina wrote. The parents then does not educate themselves and are SCARED to death to even sign to their child because they think they will be illiterate.
Writing is the hardest thing I teach my kids. I do sign with my son at home. It has been a great bridge to him learning to talk and communicate. It has relieved a great deal of his fustration with expressive language. HE does understand almost everything I say and will sign key words that I have said. He has recently had a burst in language and I am thrilled.
I wish more parents who understand that signing does not hinder a child from learning to speak. However when some deaf people are so adamantly opposed to CIs and then voice their opinions so poorly they are then setting up a parent to NOT choose to sign. On the flip side their are oralist who totally PUSH oralism and are opposed to any signing with a child who has a CI.
The choice to implant or not to implant, to sign or not to sign, is a very personal choice and NO one should judge a parent on making that choice.
My son has very natural speech and is learning to talk like a hearing child would, by overhearing speech. It is not perfect yet and he is delayed, but it is my goal that he catch up with his peers and be a child who can COMMUNICATE with other people. If he signs and talks...fine. If he signs only and can write notes to communicate...fine. If he chooses to talk only and not sign, FINE. It will be his choice when he is older, but at least we laid the ground work for him to have that choice.
Mary

pbpara

Maybe that's where I lucked out, then. I had enough hearing when I was little that I was able to learn speech fairly naturally, although a bit late, with a lot of work and hearing aids and such... but my mother, and her family, did learn to sign. I am the oldest of my siblings...my 17-year-old and 4-year-old sisters have both been exposed to signing since birth and are very good at it. The older one is fluent, the 4-year-old as much so as you could expect a child that age to be.

But signing did not hinder my ability to learn to speak or lipread. Since I am now profoundly deaf, I am highly dependent on those two abilities, and find they are much handier than just being able to sign. Nothing against people who only sign, though. I just think I would have trouble communicating.

The language used in our home is both ASL and spoken English, and it works out fine. I'm the only deaf one...Abby is hard of hearing but not enough to be much of a hindrance to her. No one has trouble understanding one another, nor were my other communication skills delayed in any way.

Bush_in_2004!

sabrina said: "do surgery their metal head with device stuck with wire on their adorable heads."

either substanticate this claim or admit to making this lie up. parents of deaf children will not appreciate being decieved by either militant oralists or deaf culture militants.

State the truth or state your opinions. Don't post lies.

Boult

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Boult

:liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar:

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Ziusudra

I have nothing against CIs. I have friend with CIs and I have no problems with them, they are mostly signing and talking people. I'm happy that my parents brought me up to learn English and Auslan (sign language of Australia) and they taught me good english. I'm pretty proud of my english skills, and I'm thankful for my parents who wanted me to learn Signed English as well to pick up English better and they stuck English words all over the place to objects such as "Table" so I would identify them.

I have hearing aids myself and because I do pretty well with them, I don't need a cochlear implant. If my friends ever get one, I'll support them because it's their decision. Parents decide whats best for their child, but if they give them plenty of options such as signing, speech/hearing lessons and other things, the child can decide for themselves when they grow up.

deafdyke

I totally agree with you! Anyway, English grammar IS hard. I have trouble with it, and I am a VERY anal editor type when it comes to grammar (I even read William Safire!) Personally, I think the key to sucess for deaf/hoh students is parental involvement. As you said, not that many of your kids parents Sign. I know two girls who only Sign, and they are fully 100% literate and are very high acheiveing.
I too wish that more parents didn't see Sign as a "crutch" I wish parents were exposed to Signing Deaf people who are academicly superior...doesn't it seem like the only really high achieving deaf people who are spotlighted as academic sucesses are oral? Look over the case studies in one of those "choices in deafness" books. Most of the oral deaf case studies are profiled as VERY high achieveing. (typical overschduled suburban kid) and it seems like most of the TC/ Signers profiled are kind of "low acheiving" (there's usually not even a honors student there!)
I wish also that most parents realized that most kids who Sign have bad English grammar b/c they started ASL late, and so they didn't get a foundation in a first language before learning English. Most Signers are oral failures...very few parents choose to have their deaf/hoh kids Sign.
I wish parents would learn about the Signing Deaf sucesses(like the professors at Gally) instead of thinking that the only sucesses are oral deaf people, and that all signers are on SSI/Disabilty.I wish too, that parents would realize that they need to give their deaf/hoh kids EVERY and ANY oppertunty possible! That means learning ASL (especially as a safety net in case oralism doesn't work out) CS, audotry Verbal therapy, hearing aids, CIs and so on! You sound like a wonderful parent, giving your child every and any oppertunty!

signingcat

Thanks to all who supported my post! Deafdyke, thanks for your comments. I do agree that many people see signing as a "crutch" and are scared to death to use it with their deaf children.
The AV therapist here has been very supportive to us going back to signing, but I think only because the psychologist we saw suggested it. My 3 year old was getting VERY fustrated because he could not tell us what he wants. My son is a very mixed oral/signing child. He has some words he signs only, some he says only and some he says and signs. The fustration level has come down and vocabulary has increased IN both the oral and signed areas.
I was lucky in that I had 9 years of signing under my belt before my son was born, so I didn't have to struggle to communicate with my child. I think one reason parents aren't as committed to signing is that HAVE TO COMMIT to learning another language, and most of them don't understand how crucial it is. The parents think it is NOT a big deal if they don't sign everything. The kid figured out what the parent was saying so whats the big deal. NO the kid needs language, not just some home gesturing system. Parents have got to commit to their kids, and if they don't then everyone loses. This is true of even kids who have no disability...NO parent involvement means a kid who is not going to be totally successful at anything.

deafdyke

On level...how? Are they bilingal or oral only? Are they middle class or from various and sundry economic classes? Are there any kids with CI who have Mediciad as their primary insurance? I don't deny that there are CI oral-only sucesses but I am wondering if it has more to do with class (rich and middle class people can afford to spend more money on things like oral schools, best hearing aids, private speech teachers and so on) I mean some deaf/hoh kids don't even have insurance or only have Medicaid! I know research has clearly shown that class is linked to educational acheivement. That's not to say that someone who attends an inner city high school or a high school on Pine Ridge (poorest county in the US. It's also an Indian reservation)
won't end up going to Dartmouth or Harvard, but it's a lot less likely then say if they attended a middle class suburban high school or a private prep school. Also, upper/middle class folks tend to be very driven (think hyperschuduled family where the parents are wicked involved and want their kids to have EVERY SINGLE advantage so that they can get a high powered career and then drop dead of a heart attack brought on by stress at age 40)
That's why I support ASL/Sign for even kids who only have unilateral loss or kids with only mild losses. ASL/Sign acts as a clarifier. Not all deaf/hoh folk have perfect clear speech. Even lots of hearing folk don't have clear speech. Lots of times they don't have perfect hearing either. I attend a state college where I am one of only a handful of hoh kids, and I cannot tell you HOW many times I've had to ask a hearing friend " Would you like to borrow my hearing aid?" (One of my friends always says "That joke NEVER gets old")
I think also a HUGE part of the reason why quite a few parents don't really learn ASL is b/c it still has the stigma of "speshal needs"/disabilty/difference. Look at a site that is pushing oral commuication. Look at the language which is used...It is very clear that most dedicaited oralists view ASL/Sign as a "crutch" and "speshal needs"
You are indeed VERY lucky that you got 9 years of Signing in before you had your child. I totally understand that you had an advantage over parents who had no exposure to Sign, but I know many many hearing parents of deaf kids who learned ASL b/c they had to, (their kids were either born totally deaf or didn't benifit all that much from hearing aids) I know parents of deaf kids who decided to go to college to become 'terps. I wish more parents understood that it's OK to Sign, and there's no reason why someone can't be a part of BOTH the deaf and hearing worlds....Not all culturally Deaf folks are radical extremist anti-hearing world. There are plenty of us who can hear and speak very well. I mean, you wouldn't stop going to church just b/c there are some extremely radical Christians (eg Ku Klux Klan, Christian Idenity etc) involved in the movement. I idenitify strongly as feminist..yet I don't not ID as feminist just b/c of the stereotypes of the rabid bra-burning manhaters out there.

Boult

Alex, can you edit the first post in this thread to trim the longer line at bottom of the first post.. because it goes off the browser window making all other post wider than my browser window forcing me to scroll sideway.. just trim it to match the first line at top of the first post.

Thanks!

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signingcat

Actually this young lady I am referring too is on Medicaid, and is in the lower income bracket. She has a terrific mother who became an interpreter and has been raised TC. She does sign, but has speech that is good enough to communicate with other EASILY. She also hears everything we say in class, and eavesdrops a lot, which I don't mind, I think it is cool she can.

If you had cut and pasted my whole statement, I believe I wrote that I am using sign with my 3 year old. However I am using SEE2 with him.

I do agree, that not every culturally deaf person is a radical extremist, but it only takes ONE to turn off a hearing parent of a deaf child. It only takes one and that one is remembered highly over the others. I personally was attacked by a deaf mother of a deaf son for getting a CI for my child. I do have other deaf friends who have been supportive...and I have had a hearing family member who wasn't. NO one has the right to say what a parent should do in regards to what they think is best for their child.

deafdyke

That is awesome that she's done so well! I really do think the key to sucess is parental involvement. I wish some of the "Sign is a crutch and TC/Bi-Bi doesn't work" audist pro-oral at every and any cost whiners" could meet your student. Personally I think that the CI will increase the numbers of truely bilingal (ASL and English) Deaf, rather then wiping out Deaf culture.
I really do think that the end goal of every single D/deaf and hoh child's IEP should be to ensure that they are fluent in both Sign and Spoken and Written English.
I understand...Still I wish more hearing parents were more understanding in that they understood that the extremists represent only a very tiny minority. That's like deciding to not attend a libral church b/c of the rabid rantings of Christian Idenity neo-Nazis, or thinking that ALL Muslims are evil terrorists b/c of the sitution in the Mid-East, or thinking that ALL feminists are manhaters who want to perform Lorena Bobbits on all men.
Personally, I think eventually CIs will pretty much be accepted by Deafies, and acceptence of CI is slowly but surely coming along.
A lot of Deaf people...hey, even a lot of HEARING people have never heard of auditory nereopathy(I consider myself VERY well-read and had never heard of it until a couple of years ago) and don't understand that CIs are sometimes the only option. Besides, way back when hearing aids first became available, a lot of Deafies thought that hearing aids would wipe out Deaf Culture. I think both people on both sides of the debate need to realize and reconize that the hearing world and the deaf world both have its' advantages and disadvantages and that neither world is better or worse then another. They are EQUAL!
You're right that no one has the right to say what a parent should do in regards to what they think is best for a child, but in terms of disabilty I disagree, b/c so many parents were never really exposed to disabilty while growing up. Even if they were they were trained to see it as "bad" ( eg. Oh the poor wittle cwippled children they can't walk or have anything remotely resembeling a "normal" life) and to view able-bodiedness/functioning somewhat akin to an a/b as good, wonderful and all the highest ultimate goal for a disabled adult. Lots of parents are told to "listen to the experts on the subject" and not really listen to people who have actually experianced growing up with a disabilty! I do think that many of us who have lived the experiance can give very valuable information to parents. I really do wish that when I was dx, my parents could have heard some real-life stories and met real live hoh adults who could tell them the ups and downs of living life as a hoh adult and the ups and downs of each commuication methodoligy instead of automaticlly listening to the experts view on things.(who very often sugarcoat the disadvantages of oral commuication. Look at some of the sites listing commuication options for deaf/hoh kids. Most of the time very few disadvantages are listed for the oral-aural option. (eg increased temper tantrums, "ADD", money issues and so on.) Oral-aural and auditory verbal are presented as the PERFECT ULTIMATE choice for deaf/hoh kids! (I actually remember reading somewhere that the only disadvantage to A/V was that it wasn't available in lots of places!)
I wish my parents had known to use ASL with me instead of automaticlly assuming that b/c I am hoh I must have more in common with hearing people then with deaf people! It would have made my life so much easier, and I would not have felt so damn alone and like a freak. ( I was raised under the audist asslimation method.."Deafdyke is more hearing then deaf, so she should not need exposure to deaf/hoh adults, deaf/hoh peers (I remember when I was in elementary school thinking that I was the only one in the ENTIRE world who was deaf/hoh!)

donmayjohn

If you wait till they are old enough to make their own choice, they do not work so well. The younger a child, the more apt to learn sound. If you were born blind, and there was an operation that would give you sight, would you want your parents to go ahead?

QUOTE=Sabrina]I removed make no sense previously message....from his quote...

toddler's brain plasticity is such that they pick up things/learn much much quicker, esp as it relates to spoken language.

:sure: Thier speak sounds like a monkey like I do... They always speak as Deaf voice !!



The children should wait until they become older to make their own choices. It is their bodies. It is not emergency to do surgery their metal head with device stuck with wire on their adorable heads.

:madfawk: Medical society oppressed to the parents !![/QUOTE]

deafdyke

In a way kids can wait until they are old enough to decide. They are stricter on kids qualifing for CI then they are for adults. The ceiling for a kid I think is around 20% or below...the ceiling for adults is something like 60%.
I do think that if a kid is getting a lot of benifit from aids, but is qualified for the CI based on their unaided audiogram, that the parents should WAIT until at least the kid's in adolescence to choose so that the child and parents can decide together!!!!!
I also think that the kids should grow up with BOTH ASL and English....certainly the CI improves hearing in many people, but as we all know, results have varied tremendously with CI. Even over at Hearing Exchange, they admit that not everyone hears at hard of hearing levels with CIs and results vary tremendously! (and for the lurkers...I'm not talking about the late-implanted deafies...there are still kids who are oral failures even with a CI) Research has shown that even most oral sucesses have trouble with the syntax and "meat and potatos" of English. (eg saying "how many spiders have legs?" instead of "how many legs do spiders have?") (and to a certain lurker who wonders why kids with CIs are still in oral schools as teens, the reason is that they still haven't totally mastered LANGAUGE!!!!!!!)
Raising deaf and hoh kids with both ASL and English would give the children a CHOICE as how to commuicate. I know far far far far too many oral kids who resent not having grown up with ASL as an option.
No I would not. I believe that disabilty is simply a difference and doesn't need to be cured. People can adapt to disabilty...disabilty is just like blue eyes or hair color. I don't trust a lot of parents to make decisions about disabilty for their kids, b/c too many parents grew up seeing disabilty as "bad" or horrible or a complete tragedy....most of them don't really see it as just a difference.
Parents need to realize that they shouldn't make permanent decisions about their kids, but they should simply give their kids all the opertunties possible....give them hearing aids and CIs, work on speech and auditory training but also don't forget ASL and Deaf culture. Oralist experts think that deaf kids will be more better off as hoh kids, but there's absolutly positively no evidence that hoh kids achive more then deaf kids.