Why my wife and I want our children to hear and speak a little. - Page 3

05-14-2006, 09:03 PM

For what it's worth, I am for freedom of choice. I am neutral. I am Switzerland. I won't judge you one way or the other. All I would say is make sure you educate yourself on the risks and rewards and set your expectations accordingly.

gnulinuxman · 05-14-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

For what it's worth, I am for freedom of choice. I am neutral. I am Switzerland. I won't judge you one way or the other. All I would say is make sure you educate yourself on the risks and rewards and set your expectations accordingly.

That's a good point of view.

R2D2 · 05-14-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greema

I am jumping in late on this thread, but I want everyone to be aware that I am Fragmenter's mom and I am proud to see him carrying on this discussion and my husband and I stand by him and his wife all the way... We found out over a week ago about their considering CI for their son, our grandson and now we are convinced they are moving in the right direction for him. Mind you, we have been SO against CI ever since it begun up until our first conversation with Fragmenter and his wife. My husband and I are very willing to keep an open mind and listen to their reasonings and I have discussed with a few deaf peers and for the most part, I have found them to positively respond. An oral school here in our city has been graduating their students (most of them have CI) at the fourth grade level and sending them on to public schools AND that school used to graduate the students up to the 8th grade level! I was very surprised to hear (well, yes us deafies are allowed to use that word, aren't we?!?) this bit of news.
Very good thread! Just don't mind those trying to stir up the pot without opening up their minds and consider the facts.

Great post! You sound such a strong and supportive family.

Boult · 05-14-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greema

I am jumping in late on this thread, but I want everyone to be aware that I am Fragmenter's mom and I am proud to see him carrying on this discussion and my husband and I stand by him and his wife all the way... We found out over a week ago about their considering CI for their son, our grandson and now we are convinced they are moving in the right direction for him. Mind you, we have been SO against CI ever since it begun up until our first conversation with Fragmenter and his wife. My husband and I are very willing to keep an open mind and listen to their reasonings and I have discussed with a few deaf peers and for the most part, I have found them to positively respond. An oral school here in our city has been graduating their students (most of them have CI) at the fourth grade level and sending them on to public schools AND that school used to graduate the students up to the 8th grade level! I was very surprised to hear (well, yes us deafies are allowed to use that word, aren't we?!?) this bit of news.
Very good thread! Just don't mind those trying to stir up the pot without opening up their minds and consider the facts.

wonderful to hear that and interesting tidbit about the schools you mentioned.. kinda prove the point from the research done by Gallaudet regarding literacy.

Boult · 05-14-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

I love you, mom.

hey, you mother must rock eh

Cloggy · 05-15-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greema

I am jumping in late on this thread, but I want everyone to be aware that I am Fragmenter's mom and I am proud to see him carrying on this discussion ............

Welcome,
It's wonderful to see you here.
Hope you'll share some more experiences with us.

Nice meeting you

Cloggy

Fragmenter · 05-15-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

All I would say is make sure you educate yourself on the risks and rewards and set your expectations accordingly.

Of course we have weighted everything; it's my son, not a test lab rat.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-15-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greema

I am jumping in late on this thread, but I want everyone to be aware that I am Fragmenter's mom and I am proud to see him carrying on this discussion and my husband and I stand by him and his wife all the way... We found out over a week ago about their considering CI for their son, our grandson and now we are convinced they are moving in the right direction for him. Mind you, we have been SO against CI ever since it begun up until our first conversation with Fragmenter and his wife. My husband and I are very willing to keep an open mind and listen to their reasonings and I have discussed with a few deaf peers and for the most part, I have found them to positively respond. An oral school here in our city has been graduating their students (most of them have CI) at the fourth grade level and sending them on to public schools AND that school used to graduate the students up to the 8th grade level! I was very surprised to hear (well, yes us deafies are allowed to use that word, aren't we?!?) this bit of news.
Very good thread! Just don't mind those trying to stir up the pot without opening up their minds and consider the facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

I love you, mom.

Your post here shows how much you care about Fragmenter and respect his decision for his son which it's good! No wonder, why Fragmenter love and respect you more for that, greema...

To me, mainly important to expose the children to both worlds... It's great if the parents expose their deaf children to both worlds!

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-15-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

For what it's worth, I am for freedom of choice. I am neutral. I am Switzerland. I won't judge you one way or the other. All I would say is make sure you educate yourself on the risks and rewards and set your expectations accordingly.

Are you swiss, not American?

Cloggy · 05-15-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Are you swiss, not American?

No

Switserland was neutral during all wars.... (WW-I and WWW-II)

Well, neutral.. but that's another story...

05-15-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Are you swiss, not American?

No , I am American and I was referring to Switzerland as Cloggy mentioned. It just means that I am neutral.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-15-2006, 08:18 AM

Oooh I got it... Thank you, Cloggy & Rockdrummer...

Yes, me too. All what I do is respect every parent's decision but I only make sure they expose their deaf children to both worlds.

05-15-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Oooh I got it... Thank you, Cloggy & Rockdrummer...

Yes, me too. All what I do is respect every parent's decision but I only make sure they expose their deaf children to both worlds.

absolutly, From what I have learned here, it's when someone that is deaf or HOH shuns the deaf community because they have assimilated with the hearing world that causes problems with some deaf folks. In my opinion, it seems a bit arrogant when someone does this.

sr171soars · 05-15-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

absolutly, From what I have learned here, it's when someone that is deaf or HOH shuns the deaf community because they have assimilated with the hearing world that causes problems with some deaf folks. In my opinion, it seems a bit arrogant when someone does this.

Er...which party are you referring to that is arrogant? The deaf folks getting upset with the assimilators or the assimilators shunning the deaf community?

If it is the later, I will add my two cents as I'm in that category and it isn't as simple as it appears...believe me it isn't...

gnulinuxman · 05-15-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

absolutly, From what I have learned here, it's when someone that is deaf or HOH shuns the deaf community because they have assimilated with the hearing world that causes problems with some deaf folks. In my opinion, it seems a bit arrogant when someone does this.

Exactly.

Fragmenter · 05-15-2006, 10:47 AM

I'm afraid but aren't you guys hearing? You don't know what it's like to live in a silent world.

Not all deaf people want to be deaf so why can't their feelings be respected?

05-15-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

Er...which party are you referring to that is arrogant? The deaf folks getting upset with the assimilators or the assimilators shunning the deaf community? If it is the later, I will add my two cents as I'm in that category and it isn't as simple as it appears...believe me it isn't...

First of all, this is just my opinion. To me, if you were part of a community and had made friends there, to to deliberately and especially habitually avoid (or shun) them seems on the surface to be arrogant. I accept that it's probably not that simple and would invite you to please explain to me some of the details as it helps me understand this further. To answer your question, I think the shunning can be bi-directional but now I am questioning my use of the word arrogance.

sr171soars · 05-15-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

...
Not all deaf people want to be deaf so why can't their feelings be respected?

BINGO!!! Thanks. I explain as I await Rockdrummer's clarification (why push the cart before the horse!)

05-15-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

BINGO!!! Thanks. I explain as I await Rockdrummer's clarification (why push the cart before the horse!)

I think our posts crossed and hopefully the clearification you seek is above your post.

sr171soars · 05-15-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

First of all, this is just my opinion. To me, if you were part of a community and had made friends there, to to deliberately and especially habitually avoid (or shun) them seems on the surface to be arrogant. I accept that it's probably not that simple and would invite you to please explain to me some of the details as it helps me understand this further. To answer your question, I think the shunning can be bi-directional but now I am questioning my use of the word arrogance.

There are some of us deaf particularily HOH types that never were in the deaf community to begin with. I have no beef with the deaf community at all and it explains my current gig visiting this site (to learn more about my dark side...er deaf side [lest anybody be offended...just a pun!!!]). So, if I were never a part of it, then who I'm I shunning? I have totally assimulated myself into the hearing world and I have no friends or family in the deaf world. The closet I get to it is a hearing friend who happens to be a very good deaf interpretator for our church's deaf group. I don't know how to sign as it has never been necessary for me to do so. Should I? Well, if I knew that I would use often, maybe I would. Languages are hard to learn and even harder to keep (especially when you are older).

I will repeat a story that partly explains my orientation to the hearing world. I was visiting a former deaf teacher (when I used to be in a deaf school for about four years before being mainstreamed) at G.U. in DC. I couldn't believe the snotty attitudes toward me! They basically said I was hearing but that is not true as I'm neither truly deaf nor hearing (a 'tweener). That sense of rejection kind of pointed out to me that "who needs this" and continue on with my life in the hearing world. Since, I went to college, I have always been accepted in the hearing world and it was all I needed to function and survive. Now, I realize I'm one of those overachievers who can fool just about any hearing person into thinking I'm hearing. It might have been a different issue if I couldn't do what I could do with listening and speaking abilities.

Hope that explains my position better...I will say that I had to pay a price for that assimilation effort but it has paid off in spades for me. I have a saying that I'm a hearing person who happens to be deaf!

gnulinuxman · 05-15-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

I'm afraid but aren't you guys hearing? You don't know what it's like to live in a silent world.

I don't know what it is like. You're right about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

Not all deaf people want to be deaf so why can't their feelings be respected?

True. But a lot of born-deaf people don't care about hearing because they never experienced it either. A quote comes to mind here: You can't miss what you haven't experienced.

I'm not arguing with you--I'm actually agreeing with you on this post.

Fragmenter · 05-15-2006, 02:15 PM

Are you sure youre gnulinuxman? LOL. Well, we have something we can agree on!

I don't know what I'm missing out on but I sure am curious about it.

BTW, Microsoft rules

j/k

StacieLeigh · 05-15-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

There are some of us deaf particularily HOH types that never were in the deaf community to begin with.

They basically said I was hearing but that is not true as I'm neither truly deaf nor hearing (a 'tweener). That sense of rejection kind of pointed out to me that "who needs this" and continue on with my life in the hearing world. Since, I went to college, I have always been accepted in the hearing world and it was all I needed to function and survive. Now, I realize I'm one of those overachievers who can fool just about any hearing person into thinking I'm hearing. It might have been a different issue if I couldn't do what I could do with listening and speaking abilities.

Hope that explains my position better...I will say that I had to pay a price for that assimilation effort but it has paid off in spades for me. I have a saying that I'm a hearing person who happens to be deaf!

Know for sure what you're talking about, went through same thing. Still, lol.
Stacie

gnulinuxman · 05-15-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

Are you sure youre gnulinuxman? LOL. Well, we have something we can agree on!

Yes, I'm gnulinuxman... The same one you called a closed-minded peabrain...

I just tire of all the "CI's are so wonderful" posts from people who don't have them and late-deafened people who have had them. I try to show the other side of the issue. Like Bear said, I hope people look at both sides of it before deciding. Biased viewpoints can be either all-good or all-bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

I don't know what I'm missing out on but I sure am curious about it.

Curiosity is human nature.

Fragmenter · 05-15-2006, 02:47 PM

It's in the past. I'm over it myself.

You gotta keep in mind that I've been against CI for 25 years until last week... We have taken in everything and this is what we've banked on. Let's say our theory is we're just being early adopters because the future landscape will be totally different 15 years later and this is a preemptive strike in our humble opinions.

sr171soars · 05-15-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

...
I just tire of all the "CI's are so wonderful" posts from people who don't have them and late-deafened people who have had them. I try to show the other side of the issue. Like Bear said, I hope people look at both sides of it before deciding. Biased viewpoints can be either all-good or all-bad.
...

I understand what you are saying but remember, I'm not late-deafened (unlike one who implies I am [no not you]) and therefore what a CI does for me is just great in my estimation (never heard this well before).

Agreed about biased viewpoints either way. I did put up a nice long list for Bear to help with evaluation issues following what Neecy said about negative issues. It all about risks and what is one willing to take. Unlike the born-deafened, I just had to have hearing...I had pandora's box opened too long to let it go now. Each to their own...

sr171soars · 05-15-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragmenter

It's in the past. I'm over it myself.

You gotta keep in mind that I've been against CI for 25 years until last week... We have taken in everything and this is what we've banked on. Let's say our theory is we're just being early adopters because the future landscape will be totally different 15 years later and this is a preemptive strike in our humble opinions.

I am interested in your "defining" moment about CIs...you may have mentioned it but it escapes me. What was it that changed everything?

greema · 05-15-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Welcome,
It's wonderful to see you here.
Hope you'll share some more experiences with us.

Nice meeting you

Cloggy

looks like a good group discussion -- I'm learning more and more about CI and I sure am glad I am keeping an open mind.
one thing before I continue -- Fragmenter has a mind of his own and please do not ask me to "scold" him -- I rather just stand by eating my popcorn

while he discusses/argues with others -- me hands off, okay?

Cloggy, I will most certainly be very happy to answer questions -- my husband and I are 1st generation deaf; we have deaf and hoh siblings, children and grandchildren
I was raised in a famous oral school (please don't ask me which one at this point -- I'm new to this forum) and my parents took me out early and entered me into 6th grade at public school and I went on to hearing high school and graduated without having an interpreter -- I am profoundly deaf and like my grandson, hearing aids do not help me -- I was introduced to the Deaf community when I was about 14 and got very involved with the Deaf -- it was my life when I'm not in school; I can be considered to be Deaf
my husband went to the state school for the deaf so he is Deaf and we have adult deaf children; I am so proud of my husband -- he was the one that took the initiative and told our son we will support him and his wife in their decision for their son
greema

neecy · 05-15-2006, 07:01 PM

One thing that a lot of people fail to understand is that there are so many different "flavors" of deafness, just as there are different individuals themselves. I hear time and time again that people who are deaf should be "proud" of it, and if they aren't then that means they are ashamed of themselves. I don't think that's really the case, as has been pointed out earlier, there are some people who have accepted the fact that they are deaf but that doesn't mean they LIKE it. It also doesn't mean they are ashamed of it. I wish I had beautiful long blonde hair, instead of my dishwater brown, but that doesn't mean I'm ashamed of it either. We can accept who we are, while wanting something else - and if we take the steps to achieve that, if we are happy, then after all is said and done, that should be all that really matters.

05-15-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

There are some of us deaf particularily HOH types that never were in the deaf community to begin with. I have no beef with the deaf community at all and it explains my current gig visiting this site (to learn more about my dark side...er deaf side [lest anybody be offended...just a pun!!!]). So, if I were never a part of it, then who I'm I shunning?

You wouldn't be shunning anybody in my mind. What I said was "if you were part of a community and made friends there" Based on what you've said, you don't fall into that catagory.

Quote:

I have totally assimulated myself into the hearing world and I have no friends or family in the deaf world. The closet I get to it is a hearing friend who happens to be a very good deaf interpretator for our church's deaf group. I don't know how to sign as it has never been necessary for me to do so. Should I? Well, if I knew that I would use often, maybe I would. Languages are hard to learn and even harder to keep (especially when you are older).

I absolutly agree with you. I am learning sign and at my age it's not such an easy thing for me. Especially to retain it when I don't have opportunity to use it on a regular basis.

Quote:

I will repeat a story that partly explains my orientation to the hearing world. I was visiting a former deaf teacher (when I used to be in a deaf school for about four years before being mainstreamed) at G.U. in DC. I couldn't believe the snotty attitudes toward me! They basically said I was hearing but that is not true as I'm neither truly deaf nor hearing (a 'tweener). That sense of rejection kind of pointed out to me that "who needs this" and continue on with my life in the hearing world.

That's to bad and I would say (at the risk of using an overused word) that they were audists. And you are right. If you try to become part of a group and are rejected, then to hell with it. I don't blame you and I would have done the same thing.

Quote:

Since, I went to college, I have always been accepted in the hearing world and it was all I needed to function and survive. Now, I realize I'm one of those overachievers who can fool just about any hearing person into thinking I'm hearing. It might have been a different issue if I couldn't do what I could do with listening and speaking abilities. Hope that explains my position better...I will say that I had to pay a price for that assimilation effort but it has paid off in spades for me. I have a saying that I'm a hearing person who happens to be deaf!

I would hope that the hearing world would accept you regardless of your ability to fool someone into thinking you are hearing. But I guess there are people out there that have no compassion towards others which is sad.

05-15-2006, 08:18 AM	#72 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 31,038	Oooh I got it... Thank you, Cloggy & Rockdrummer... Yes, me too. All what I do is respect every parent's decision but I only make sure they expose their deaf children to both worlds. __________________

05-15-2006, 02:15 PM	#82 (permalink)
Fragmenter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 823	Are you sure youre gnulinuxman? LOL. Well, we have something we can agree on! I don't know what I'm missing out on but I sure am curious about it. BTW, Microsoft rules j/k __________________ Please don't feed the Trolls. They are for your viewing entertainment only. Thank you.

05-15-2006, 02:47 PM	#85 (permalink)
Fragmenter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 823	It's in the past. I'm over it myself. You gotta keep in mind that I've been against CI for 25 years until last week... We have taken in everything and this is what we've banked on. Let's say our theory is we're just being early adopters because the future landscape will be totally different 15 years later and this is a preemptive strike in our humble opinions. __________________ Please don't feed the Trolls. They are for your viewing entertainment only. Thank you.

05-15-2006, 07:01 PM	#89 (permalink)
neecy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 1,409	One thing that a lot of people fail to understand is that there are so many different "flavors" of deafness, just as there are different individuals themselves. I hear time and time again that people who are deaf should be "proud" of it, and if they aren't then that means they are ashamed of themselves. I don't think that's really the case, as has been pointed out earlier, there are some people who have accepted the fact that they are deaf but that doesn't mean they LIKE it. It also doesn't mean they are ashamed of it. I wish I had beautiful long blonde hair, instead of my dishwater brown, but that doesn't mean I'm ashamed of it either. We can accept who we are, while wanting something else - and if we take the steps to achieve that, if we are happy, then after all is said and done, that should be all that really matters. __________________ Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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05-14-2006, 09:03 PM	#61 (permalink)
rockdrummer Guest Posts: n/a	For what it's worth, I am for freedom of choice. I am neutral. I am Switzerland. I won't judge you one way or the other. All I would say is make sure you educate yourself on the risks and rewards and set your expectations accordingly.

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05-15-2006, 10:47 AM	#76 (permalink)
Fragmenter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 823	I'm afraid but aren't you guys hearing? You don't know what it's like to live in a silent world. Not all deaf people want to be deaf so why can't their feelings be respected?