AllDeaf.com
Mobile - Perks - Advertise - Spy - Who Quoted Me  
Go Back   AllDeaf.com > Deaf Interests > Hearing Aids & Cochlear Implants
LIKE AllDeaf on Facebook FOLLOW AllDeaf on Twitter
Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10-09-2007, 04:00 AM   #361 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
In another thread, there was mentioning about bridging the gap between "deaf" and "hearing"....

I started off with a wish to get into Deaf culture and hold on to that while Lotte grows up. But there is also reality. Deaf culture has to be around in order to be part of it. Hearing parents cannot always just do that, since sign is foreign to them as well.
Still, I read Harlan Lane, learned sign, Lotte to a deaf school etc.
Choosing CI does not reduce the wish to engage with Deaf culture, and learn sign language.

What does reduce that wish is the attitude and ignorance at times from the Deaf. Calling parents names, saying that they don't love their child, that they don't accept their child.
I have been around in order to show a different side compared to the assumptions that are around. But is does not help most of the time.
The ignorance is still there. Also with people to whom I explained time and time again how CI works.
The insults are still there,
The assumption are still there.

THAT is what nowadays turns me off about Deaf culture.

And when the decsion is made for CI, no matter how much one would like to continue sign, it will become obvious that the child will lead the way. It will show when to use speech, when to use sign. The parents will notice what works and what does not.

So, bridging the gap has to come from both sides, and one of the main thngs in doing so, is accepting that hearing parents handle with the best interest for their child. They DO know what they are doing.

My focus on Lotte, who is doing great with Ci, is because of the huge focus on children that do not do well.
And that is not strange... in this (Deaf) culture, the focus is on how CI doesn't work, how children fail, how parents refuse to learn sign. And with that tunnelvision, it is only that what is seen.
Because think of it... how many parents will spend time on being abused, and misinterpreted. Not many, and since I have been here, I have seen quite some parents of which Deaf culture could have learned a lot go away.

And I have to say... I also have the feeling sometimes that there is nothing to say here. Actually, that's not the case. There's lots to say, but there is so much denial that there's no listning. There's so much focus on failure that no-one listens to succes.
But fortunately, there are people that do listen, think freely, look beyond their lack of hearing. And these people are happy for children that benefit from CI.

Because the focus sometimes seems to be on how Deaf culture should be perserved... not how deaf children can be helped.
And they can be helped in different ways. It can be by raising the child in a Deaf culture, with sign, whatever. It can be by raising the child with the ability to hear.. In the end, it's all about the child.

And THAT is what is often forgotten...
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Alt Today
All Deaf

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com
   
Unread 10-09-2007, 09:27 AM   #362 (permalink)
Prayers for my dad.
 
Cheri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 22,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
. It can be by raising the child with the ability to hear.. In the end, it's all about the child.

And THAT is what is often forgotten...
Are you most positive certain this is all about the child?, or is this really about you?, what you want, what you think is best for the whole family, from my point of view, I believe it's all about you, Cloggy, just like most hearing parents.

It's a disappointment. You're not being fair not at all, not one bit. I'm just so fed up with hearing parents who decide to have their child implanted because they believe it will help the child in listening and speaking and these skills will help their child fit better with their family and the hearing world, again it's all about them, not the child. You see my point?

Where's sign language in this, where's the deaf community in this? I don't see any of that coming from you Cloggy, You decide to wait until the child decide which world she prefer, when she would have no knowledge of sign language, no knowledge of the deaf community because of that you blind her out of the other side of the deaf world. As you said, You no longer signs to her because she reply on speech, does that give you a right to cut that out of her life now just because she no longer uses signs?

That just pissed me off even more, I'm outta here.
__________________
Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.
Cheri is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 10:07 AM   #363 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
Sure Cheri
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 10:12 AM   #364 (permalink)
Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 31,034
Cloggy, Did you expose Lottie to mix with deaf and HOH children or meet the parents of deaf or HOH children? (no matter deaf or hearing parents)... Example first step is at kindergarten..., family club, or whatever then later deaf community to know the parents of deaf and HOH children better?

I think it´s important for Lottie to recongize who really she is and can make friends with deaf & HOH children... she will feel comfortable to know that she is not only one...

She would feel uncomfortable when she know she is different as hearing people, that´s why I suggest you to expose her with deaf or HOH children then she will know who she is.

If you let her then she will know which she prefer to... and feel comfortable...

All what I want to say that Lottie is lucky to have great parent who come to register Deaf forums to learn anything which our parents doesn´t at our old times.
__________________
Liebling:-))) is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 10:40 AM   #365 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
Cloggy, Did you expose Lottie to mix with deaf and HOH children or meet the parents of deaf or HOH children? (no matter deaf or hearing parents)... Example first step is at kindergarten..., family club, or whatever then later deaf community to know the parents of deaf and HOH children better?

I think it´s important for Lottie to recongize who really she is and can make friends with deaf & HOH children... she will feel comfortable to know that she is not only one...

She would feel uncomfortable when she know she is different as hearing people, that´s why I suggest you to expose her with deaf or HOH children then she will know who she is.

If you let her then she will know which she prefer to... and feel comfortable...
Yes we did. Not any more. I have mentioned numerous time that Lotte was in a deaf/hoh-only kindergarten straight away. From age 1 to 4..

Why does she need to be forced to make friends with other deaf children. Don't worry - she will meet them.. in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
All what I want to say that Lottie is lucky to have great parent who come to register Deaf forums to learn anything which our parents doesn´t at our old times.
Thanks.... but don't hold the late arrival of internet against your parents...
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 10:50 AM   #366 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,153
Cloggy,

I dont think Liebling meant that you should force her to be with other deaf kids. But she is young enough that she could be exposed to both worlds and that would give a choice later on in life.

Am I right Liebling?

However, some of you need to realize that not all countries are like the US. In the US it is easy *usually* to go from an area like mine *no deaf* to an area like Columbus *alot deaf* in a very short drive.

Maybe, Im not saying Im right about this. But MAYBE it isnt easy for all parents to be able to join deaf events or deaf clubs because of the distance. I would say it highly depends on the area that a person lives in, and what source of income they have to judge how often you could be around the deaf community.

Before I got a computer, I pretty much had no contact with the deaf community. Mostly due to not knowing where to go. But also, the deaf community does have its negatives. And because of those negatives, I chose to have minimal contact with it. Doesnt mean I cut off all contact, its just not something I wanna expose myself to on a daily or even weekly basis.

Try to consider when making these statements, location and income.
Bear is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 11:26 AM   #367 (permalink)
Prayers for my dad.
 
Cheri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 22,818
I owe you an apology Cloggy for what I said recently on this thread after reading your post on another thread, I have second thoughts about you, Your aren't too bad as I thought u were.

I hope you accept my apologies.
__________________
Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.
Cheri is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 11:28 AM   #368 (permalink)
married
 
highlands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the heart of my love
Posts: 4,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post
Cloggy,

I dont think Liebling meant that you should force her to be with other deaf kids. But she is young enough that she could be exposed to both worlds and that would give a choice later on in life.

Am I right Liebling?

However, some of you need to realize that not all countries are like the US. In the US it is easy *usually* to go from an area like mine *no deaf* to an area like Columbus *alot deaf* in a very short drive.

Maybe, Im not saying Im right about this. But MAYBE it isnt easy for all parents to be able to join deaf events or deaf clubs because of the distance. I would say it highly depends on the area that a person lives in, and what source of income they have to judge how often you could be around the deaf community.

Before I got a computer, I pretty much had no contact with the deaf community. Mostly due to not knowing where to go. But also, the deaf community does have its negatives. And because of those negatives, I chose to have minimal contact with it. Doesnt mean I cut off all contact, its just not something I wanna expose myself to on a daily or even weekly basis.

Try to consider when making these statements, location and income.
very good post,Bear . actually,in my country, few people can have contact with 'Deaf' culture.

and what can we say if parents of a deaf child are poor and live in an area where other deafs are rare.. what could they do ? Would signing be a better choice or CIs in this case ?

depends on each individuals life conditions,IMO
highlands is offline  
Unread 10-09-2007, 11:28 AM   #369 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri View Post
I owe you an apology Cloggy for what I said recently on this thread after reading your post on another thread, I have second thoughts about you, Your aren't too bad as I thought u were.

I hope you accept my apologies.
Apology gladly accepted..
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 04:08 AM   #370 (permalink)
Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 31,034
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post
Cloggy,

I dont think Liebling meant that you should force her to be with other deaf kids. But she is young enough that she could be exposed to both worlds and that would give a choice later on in life.

Am I right Liebling?
Correct, I am glad that you understand my philosophical logic post.
__________________
Liebling:-))) is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 04:14 AM   #371 (permalink)
Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 31,034
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
Yes we did. Not any more. I have mentioned numerous time that Lotte was in a deaf/hoh-only kindergarten straight away. From age 1 to 4..
Quote:
Why does she need to be forced to make friends with other deaf children. Don't worry - she will meet them.. in time.
Yes I know Lotte was at deaf/hoh kindergarten. You first mentioned it at other forum. I thought about school, etc...

Force? I thought I offer you my friendly suggestion/advice.


Quote:
Thanks.... but don't hold the late arrival of internet against your parents...
I am sorry that I didn't make clear in my previous post about internet... I mean anything, not just internet. I know we don't have internet at my old times... I mean anything including deaf community, etc.
__________________
Liebling:-))) is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 04:22 AM   #372 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Audiofuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,538
Quote:
Force? I thought I offer you my friendly suggestion/advice.
Cloggy didn't mean YOU forcing HIM.

Cloggy mean- why force LOTTE to make friends.


Fuzzy
__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.
Audiofuzzy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 04:33 AM   #373 (permalink)
Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 31,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy View Post
Cloggy didn't mean YOU forcing HIM.

Cloggy mean- why force LOTTE to make friends.


Fuzzy
Excuse me, I do read Cloggy's post... I know that he did NOT POINT his finger on me or accused me for force him ...but stated his post in general way ... I would say something different if he point his finger on me and accused me but he didn't.
__________________
Liebling:-))) is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 04:39 AM   #374 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
OK girls ... take it somewhere else....
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 06:27 AM   #375 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria View Post
Cloggy: Sign might be used again, but by Lotte's choice. If she feels a need for it, and wants to use it to communicate we will support her in that. We have loved using signlanguage.
Maria: Sign might be used again ? Are you sooo sure about that, Cloggy ? The way I see it between your lines, you are not encouragin' it. You just leave it out. You leave your hands in the closet and let your " voice " around to keep talkin'.
Yes, I'm sure it might be used again. You should stop reading between the lines, because it really confuses you. Not strange, as there is nothing to see there...

My hands - the are holding the cards when I play cards with Lotte. She also holds the cards in her hand. Then she asks me if I have a certain card, I ask her.... We couldn't sign if we had wanted to.
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 12:14 PM   #376 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 60,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
Yes, I'm sure it might be used again. You should stop reading between the lines, because it really confuses you. Not strange, as there is nothing to see there...

My hands - the are holding the cards when I play cards with Lotte. She also holds the cards in her hand. Then she asks me if I have a certain card, I ask her.... We couldn't sign if we had wanted to.
Uhh.....it's not possible to sign and play cards at the same time? One more question....are you sitting directly across from Lotte?
jillio is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 12:27 PM   #377 (permalink)
Registered User
 
loml's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,645
Smile

Cloggy - Nice pic! Gotta love card games! Sounds kinda like "Go Fish?"
Do you have a ........?
__________________
Quote:
“Laugh, because that is your purpose in life. Love, because that is what you came here for. Shine, because that is important.”
- Yogi Bhajan-
loml is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:13 PM   #378 (permalink)
Registered User
 
neecy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio View Post
Uhh.....it's not possible to sign and play cards at the same time?
Even as an adult with better eye-hand coordination as a child, I found it extremely difficult to play cards AND sign! Let alone for a child with little hands, having to hold them all up AND sign "do you have a....."
__________________
Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
neecy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:17 PM   #379 (permalink)
♥"Concrete Angel"♥
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 19,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by neecy View Post
Even as an adult with better eye-hand coordination as a child, I found it extremely difficult to play cards AND sign! Let alone for a child with little hands, having to hold them all up AND sign "do you have a....."

Are you serious?...my son signs with one hand while hes holding the cards on the other hand and so does my husband and I....


Nothing is impossible, people can do it if they try...


Cute little girl....*smiling*
__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller
Angel is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:17 PM   #380 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tousi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,661
I get the point but native ASLers easily play cards with one hand except during the intervening seconds it takes to discard cards.
Tousi is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:21 PM   #381 (permalink)
♥"Concrete Angel"♥
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 19,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tousi View Post
I get the point but native ASLers easily play cards with one hand except during the intervening seconds it takes to discard cards.

Hello? did you forget Im not native ASLer either are my children....
__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller
Angel is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:25 PM   #382 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tousi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel View Post
Hello? did you forget Im not native ASLer either are my children....
You know, Angel, as much as I hate having to tip-toe lest I offend someone, if you would re-read, you would see that I was actually supporting what you were saying except it's on an incrementally higher plane of skill.
Tousi is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:33 PM   #383 (permalink)
♥"Concrete Angel"♥
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 19,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tousi View Post
You know, Angel, as much as I hate having to tip-toe lest I offend someone, if you would re-read, you would see that I was actually supporting what you were saying except it's on an incrementally higher plane of skill.

I did read your post I thought you were replying this to Neecy and I had to remind you that I'm not a native ASLer either are my children , I'm sorry you thought I was being offend which I wasn't...
__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller
Angel is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:44 PM   #384 (permalink)
Registered User
 
neecy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 1,411
Okay so some can and some can't. If somebody can't (like me) I can only hope it won't be used to bring up a case of bad parenting ( like almost everything else in this forum is ) and yet another example of how a parent of a CI-implantee is suppressing their children's "deaf identity"....I could immediately see where this was heading.
__________________
Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
neecy is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 02:54 PM   #385 (permalink)
♥"Concrete Angel"♥
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 19,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by neecy View Post
Okay so some can and some can't. If somebody can't (like me) I can only hope it won't be used to bring up a case of bad parenting ( like almost everything else in this forum is ) and yet another example of how a parent of a CI-implantee is suppressing their children's "deaf identity"....I could immediately see where this was heading.
Oh no, I will never think of that Neecy..I'll be very honest, I don't see it as a case of bad parenting, sometimes it is hard to sign when you're holding something in both hands..It happens to me once in awhile so I'm not gonna to lie about that...


And about the "deaf identity" well, what can I say, I admit I was upset about that yeah....
__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller
Angel is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 05:44 PM   #386 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 60,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by neecy View Post
Even as an adult with better eye-hand coordination as a child, I found it extremely difficult to play cards AND sign! Let alone for a child with little hands, having to hold them all up AND sign "do you have a....."
And it isn't possible to lay the cards face down down on the table? And difficult doesn't translate to impossible.
jillio is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 05:47 PM   #387 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 60,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel View Post
Oh no, I will never think of that Neecy..I'll be very honest, I don't see it as a case of bad parenting, sometimes it is hard to sign when you're holding something in both hands..It happens to me once in awhile so I'm not gonna to lie about that...


And about the "deaf identity" well, what can I say, I admit I was upset about that yeah....
No one said anything about bad parenting. I was simply addressing the assertion that a deaf child cannot play a game of cards and sign at the same time. That is simply not true.
jillio is offline  
Unread 10-10-2007, 08:10 PM   #388 (permalink)
Audist are not welcome
 
shel90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A place where crabs are popular
Posts: 42,656
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloggy View Post
Yes, I'm sure it might be used again. You should stop reading between the lines, because it really confuses you. Not strange, as there is nothing to see there...

My hands - the are holding the cards when I play cards with Lotte. She also holds the cards in her hand. Then she asks me if I have a certain card, I ask her.... We couldn't sign if we had wanted to.
We play card games with our students so yes, we managed to play cards and sign. It is not difficult.


There are Deaf poker tourneys and stuff like that. Cards are not an obstacle to our communication needs.
__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous
shel90 is offline  
Unread 10-11-2007, 01:12 AM   #389 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Cloggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel View Post
Are you serious?...my son signs with one hand while hes holding the cards on the other hand and so does my husband and I....


Nothing is impossible, people can do it if they try...


Cute little girl....*smiling*
Lotte was 4 at the time... your son is ????
__________________
.
The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
. . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951)

Information about . . . . . . . . .
Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.
Cloggy is offline  
Unread 10-11-2007, 01:18 AM   #390 (permalink)
Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
 
Liebling:-)))'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 31,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel View Post
Are you serious?...my son signs with one hand while hes holding the cards on the other hand and so does my husband and I....


Nothing is impossible, people can do it if they try...


Cute little girl....*smiling*
Yes, that's right... We signs with one hand and hold the card on other hand when we play card "SOLO", too.

It's really not hard what some people thought.

Cloggy, Lottie grow big now... she look cute ...
__________________
Liebling:-))) is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 AM.


Join AllDeaf on Facebook!    Follow us on Twitter!

AllDeaf proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2002-2014, AllDeaf.com. All Rights Reserved.