Cloggy

In another thread, there was mentioning about bridging the gap between "deaf" and "hearing"....

I started off with a wish to get into Deaf culture and hold on to that while Lotte grows up. But there is also reality. Deaf culture has to be around in order to be part of it. Hearing parents cannot always just do that, since sign is foreign to them as well.
Still, I read Harlan Lane, learned sign, Lotte to a deaf school etc.
Choosing CI does not reduce the wish to engage with Deaf culture, and learn sign language.

What does reduce that wish is the attitude and ignorance at times from the Deaf. Calling parents names, saying that they don't love their child, that they don't accept their child.
I have been around in order to show a different side compared to the assumptions that are around. But is does not help most of the time.
The ignorance is still there. Also with people to whom I explained time and time again how CI works.
The insults are still there,
The assumption are still there.

THAT is what nowadays turns me off about Deaf culture.

And when the decsion is made for CI, no matter how much one would like to continue sign, it will become obvious that the child will lead the way. It will show when to use speech, when to use sign. The parents will notice what works and what does not.

So, bridging the gap has to come from both sides, and one of the main thngs in doing so, is accepting that hearing parents handle with the best interest for their child. They DO know what they are doing.

My focus on Lotte, who is doing great with Ci, is because of the huge focus on children that do not do well.
And that is not strange... in this (Deaf) culture, the focus is on how CI doesn't work, how children fail, how parents refuse to learn sign. And with that tunnelvision, it is only that what is seen.
Because think of it... how many parents will spend time on being abused, and misinterpreted. Not many, and since I have been here, I have seen quite some parents of which Deaf culture could have learned a lot go away.

And I have to say... I also have the feeling sometimes that there is nothing to say here. Actually, that's not the case. There's lots to say, but there is so much denial that there's no listning. There's so much focus on failure that no-one listens to succes.
But fortunately, there are people that do listen, think freely, look beyond their lack of hearing. And these people are happy for children that benefit from CI.

Because the focus sometimes seems to be on how Deaf culture should be perserved... not how deaf children can be helped.
And they can be helped in different ways. It can be by raising the child in a Deaf culture, with sign, whatever. It can be by raising the child with the ability to hear.. In the end, it's all about the child.

And THAT is what is often forgotten...

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Deafness

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Cheri

Are you most positive certain this is all about the child?, or is this really about you?, what you want, what you think is best for the whole family, from my point of view, I believe it's all about you, Cloggy, just like most hearing parents.

It's a disappointment. You're not being fair not at all, not one bit. I'm just so fed up with hearing parents who decide to have their child implanted because they believe it will help the child in listening and speaking and these skills will help their child fit better with their family and the hearing world, again it's all about them, not the child. You see my point?

Where's sign language in this, where's the deaf community in this? I don't see any of that coming from you Cloggy, You decide to wait until the child decide which world she prefer, when she would have no knowledge of sign language, no knowledge of the deaf community because of that you blind her out of the other side of the deaf world. As you said, You no longer signs to her because she reply on speech, does that give you a right to cut that out of her life now just because she no longer uses signs?

That just pissed me off even more, I'm outta here.

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Cloggy

Sure Cheri

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Liebling:-)))

Cloggy, Did you expose Lottie to mix with deaf and HOH children or meet the parents of deaf or HOH children? (no matter deaf or hearing parents)... Example first step is at kindergarten..., family club, or whatever then later deaf community to know the parents of deaf and HOH children better?

I think it´s important for Lottie to recongize who really she is and can make friends with deaf & HOH children... she will feel comfortable to know that she is not only one...

She would feel uncomfortable when she know she is different as hearing people, that´s why I suggest you to expose her with deaf or HOH children then she will know who she is.

If you let her then she will know which she prefer to... and feel comfortable...

All what I want to say that Lottie is lucky to have great parent who come to register Deaf forums to learn anything which our parents doesn´t at our old times.

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Cloggy

Yes we did. Not any more. I have mentioned numerous time that Lotte was in a deaf/hoh-only kindergarten straight away. From age 1 to 4..

Why does she need to be forced to make friends with other deaf children. Don't worry - she will meet them.. in time.
Thanks.... but don't hold the late arrival of internet against your parents...

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Bear

Cloggy,

I dont think Liebling meant that you should force her to be with other deaf kids. But she is young enough that she could be exposed to both worlds and that would give a choice later on in life.

Am I right Liebling?

However, some of you need to realize that not all countries are like the US. In the US it is easy *usually* to go from an area like mine *no deaf* to an area like Columbus *alot deaf* in a very short drive.

Maybe, Im not saying Im right about this. But MAYBE it isnt easy for all parents to be able to join deaf events or deaf clubs because of the distance. I would say it highly depends on the area that a person lives in, and what source of income they have to judge how often you could be around the deaf community.

Before I got a computer, I pretty much had no contact with the deaf community. Mostly due to not knowing where to go. But also, the deaf community does have its negatives. And because of those negatives, I chose to have minimal contact with it. Doesnt mean I cut off all contact, its just not something I wanna expose myself to on a daily or even weekly basis.

Try to consider when making these statements, location and income.

Cheri

I owe you an apology Cloggy for what I said recently on this thread after reading your post on another thread, I have second thoughts about you, Your aren't too bad as I thought u were.

I hope you accept my apologies.

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highlands

very good post,Bear . actually,in my country, few people can have contact with 'Deaf' culture.

and what can we say if parents of a deaf child are poor and live in an area where other deafs are rare.. what could they do ? Would signing be a better choice or CIs in this case ?

depends on each individuals life conditions,IMO

Cloggy

Apology gladly accepted..

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Correct, I am glad that you understand my philosophical logic post.

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Yes I know Lotte was at deaf/hoh kindergarten. You first mentioned it at other forum. I thought about school, etc...

Force? I thought I offer you my friendly suggestion/advice.

I am sorry that I didn't make clear in my previous post about internet... I mean anything, not just internet. I know we don't have internet at my old times... I mean anything including deaf community, etc.

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Audiofuzzy

Cloggy didn't mean YOU forcing HIM.

Cloggy mean- why force LOTTE to make friends.


Fuzzy

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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
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Liebling:-)))

Excuse me, I do read Cloggy's post... I know that he did NOT POINT his finger on me or accused me for force him ...but stated his post in general way ... I would say something different if he point his finger on me and accused me but he didn't.

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Cloggy

OK girls ... take it somewhere else....

Cloggy

Yes, I'm sure it might be used again. You should stop reading between the lines, because it really confuses you. Not strange, as there is nothing to see there...

My hands - the are holding the cards when I play cards with Lotte. She also holds the cards in her hand. Then she asks me if I have a certain card, I ask her.... We couldn't sign if we had wanted to.

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jillio

Uhh.....it's not possible to sign and play cards at the same time? One more question....are you sitting directly across from Lotte?

loml

Cloggy - Nice pic! Gotta love card games! Sounds kinda like "Go Fish?"
Do you have a ........?

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neecy

Even as an adult with better eye-hand coordination as a child, I found it extremely difficult to play cards AND sign! Let alone for a child with little hands, having to hold them all up AND sign "do you have a....."

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Angel

Are you serious?...my son signs with one hand while hes holding the cards on the other hand and so does my husband and I....


Nothing is impossible, people can do it if they try...


Cute little girl....*smiling*

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Tousi

I get the point but native ASLers easily play cards with one hand except during the intervening seconds it takes to discard cards.

Angel

Hello? did you forget Im not native ASLer either are my children....

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Tousi

You know, Angel, as much as I hate having to tip-toe lest I offend someone, if you would re-read, you would see that I was actually supporting what you were saying except it's on an incrementally higher plane of skill.

Angel

I did read your post I thought you were replying this to Neecy and I had to remind you that I'm not a native ASLer either are my children , I'm sorry you thought I was being offend which I wasn't...

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neecy

Okay so some can and some can't. If somebody can't (like me) I can only hope it won't be used to bring up a case of bad parenting ( like almost everything else in this forum is ) and yet another example of how a parent of a CI-implantee is suppressing their children's "deaf identity"....I could immediately see where this was heading.

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Angel

Oh no, I will never think of that Neecy..I'll be very honest, I don't see it as a case of bad parenting, sometimes it is hard to sign when you're holding something in both hands..It happens to me once in awhile so I'm not gonna to lie about that...


And about the "deaf identity" well, what can I say, I admit I was upset about that yeah....

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

jillio

And it isn't possible to lay the cards face down down on the table? And difficult doesn't translate to impossible.

jillio

No one said anything about bad parenting. I was simply addressing the assertion that a deaf child cannot play a game of cards and sign at the same time. That is simply not true.

shel90

We play card games with our students so yes, we managed to play cards and sign. It is not difficult.


There are Deaf poker tourneys and stuff like that. Cards are not an obstacle to our communication needs.

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Cloggy

Lotte was 4 at the time... your son is ????

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Liebling:-)))

Yes, that's right... We signs with one hand and hold the card on other hand when we play card "SOLO", too.

It's really not hard what some people thought.

Cloggy, Lottie grow big now... she look cute ...

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