Angel

That's means they were never your true friend cause true friends will always still be your friend no matter if they're implanted with CI or not, and they should know by now that CI isn't a cure...

I'm truly sorry that it had happened to you, but you got me

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Deafness

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rockdrummer

I couldn't have said that any better myself.

FreeWoman77

like reading lips, every time I visited Dr appt or others, at college, store and e.t.c., they always asked me, Can u read lip? they will may ask can u hear? or do u have CI? dunno

My younger daughter recently is going to school, ECEAP, I always was offered/talked about CI I have told them I dont want to force my daughter at this early age, she's only 2 yrs old! over-over *sigh* seems they dont care to improve better program for deaf children but asking for CI instead, my both daughters are going to mainstream in this town

more CI and able to read lips people involving in hearing world would forget about deaf school, deaf social, deaf event and e.t.c. in deaf world

Angel

Maybe they didn't think CI will benefit so many deaf children who now is able to hear so much more than the use of hearing aids, and later it's slowly become aware to many of us , then more people recognize young children has shown much improvement with their speech and language develop, and that's gives some parent a wake-up call by knowing there something out there that can make a big difference in a deaf child's life by being able to hear much more and being part of both hearing and the deaf world...

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Gemtun

One biggest reason was that the insurance did not cover that back then. It was considered "expermential" back then so many insurance companies balked at it back then but I did have a few friends getting it during my high school in 1980's. I remember this friend LIsa who got hers in 1984 because her parents could afford the surgery fees, etc. But the CI s back then werent very efficient - it is like technology. Technology improved over the years so that is why CI s nowadays are more successful. Now insurance companies are looking at bilateral implants because they are learning that bilateral implants are even more successful.

Now almost all of insurance companies, even Medicaid or state sponsored health fund, covers CI so that is why we are hearing more and more about young children getting implanted.

Gemtun

Exactly.

When my niece was born in 1994, my brother and his wife discovered that she was deaf but they were wary about CI s then because there werent much information on that.

Five years later, they opted to have their daughter implanted with a CI because it was when there were more research and information on CI s in younger children.

My niece has drastically improved - she calls herself hard of hearing but she does use ASL now.

Angel

I didn't know anything about CI until I came in Alldeaf, I used to be against CI cause I only knew so little, and boy I got attacked, bushed, insult, etc from those CI users and from those who support CI...

Then I start reading more and more from so much CI web sites through google, and from others who posted about their CI experiences etc I didn't learn alot about it in here cause they were soo mean to me and wasn't kind enough to make me understand what I say wrong etc....

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Cheri

I found the history of Cochlear Implants:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant

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Boult

understood. I learned about CI in NTID and I was even anti-ci that time. and when I look at the paperworks I had on ci in NTID they were all biased. nothing postive about CI so obviously the teacher was so biased against CI. but I forgot about them till I went thru my old boxes full of notebooks and papers from NTID. I am like WOW I am this dense and ignorant! I realized that we don't have much technology to research this such thing. they were only feeding us bad stuffs. now we have internet and we are able to read everything out there. . even company's website even the old forum like DN where it is full of anti-Ci users I was one of them then I evolve into pro-ci I was narrow but now I am wide.

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Boult
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neecy

Boult - isn't education a wonderful thing? I hold hope that more people will do as you did, and take it upon themselves to educate themselves, and learn the truth. That is the only way the fear will be replaced by understanding and respect. I'm so glad for you.

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Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

Cheri

They still do. They expect us to respect them, Well, respect goes two way street. Not all that, They labeled us "Anti-CI"

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Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

Boult

Know what, i didn't know this till I became of age enough to go down the memory lane myself. I looked back and realized I was in experiment that my parent signed me up. It was so crude and does not involve surgery. it was acupuncture/electrode combination. they would insert accupunture needle into my ear then hook up to wire to bulky machine (which may be speech processor) and transmit sounds which I did hear. It was a success. they asked my parent to sign a release to be included in presentation, my parent decline and we all forgot about it. I realized it was emerging technology back then. it's amazing.

my other two attempts to hear again that my parent tried. I went to LA and SF one to see a chinese acupuncturist to try to heal my ear so I could hear again. that fails. and other to see Dr. Wong (I remember that name vividly) but she's a lady. she used a cigar to put heat pressure around my ear without touching my skin you know.. I did hear a little. but it is not a long term solution. none of them are.

I also remember my dad taking me to a place here in Tucson back in 70's where a faith healer came to and they had a large auidence. (keep in mind that my dad was at that time both city councilman and episcopal priest ) so my dad put me in the line to meet the guy to get healed. my dad told him that I can't hear and see if he can heal me to restore my hearing. He placed his hand on my forehead and pushed me down as if I was falling down myself. and his aides helped me up and the healer says can you hear me? I said yes (that was because I was standing so close to speakers! they were all behind us so the audience can hear us from way back.) but briefly like a little so I left. my dad and I looked at each other "nah he's fake" now I know all faith healer are fake and con artist. they just want our money (donations) so we never did any more attempts after those. We all settled down on hearing aids.


EDIT: to answer your question: I didn't hear about this in high school either and even in previous deaf schools that I went to. but hey that was 80's and earlier. I learned about CI in 90's at NTID since Cochlear got first FDA approval in 80's so it was new to me that time.
I didn't know about TTY. all I know is hearing aid and BTE, ASL and CS that's it till I step in NTID wow tty, cc, flasher, CI and interpreter. ( I didn't have interpreter at my high school I was in total inclusion mode instead of spending time in self-contained classrooom with other deafies at high school same thing with elementary school too) after that, I bought myself a tty, cc, flasher even better HA via NTID now I have CI. oh yeah computer, pager, etc. I am going with the flow of technology advancement. My next step to replace my CI is nanotechnology if it become successful in 5 yrs but if it far off into decade then oh well. LOL

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Boult
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Angel

Yeah, I was being labeled a bunch of names too, Anti-CI, Anti-Cop, racist, closed minder etc..


I guess some people only want to read what is being said then getting to know the person personally...sad isn't it?...


I agree, respect needs to be earn both ways...

__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Cousin Vinny

While CI's factor into this question, my reasoning is more tailored towards constantly advancing technology and a pathologicial view of Deafness that is seemingly pervasive everywhere. Understandably, I have mixed feelings about this.

Lately, in the past 2-3 years, CI's implanted in infants have shown promising signs of success. They seem to be able to acquire age-appropriate language skills, and have vastly superior auditory-oral skills, compared to previous generations. Unfairly or not, the local public school districts are also encouraging speech and language development at the expense of ASL.

I recently interviewed for at least two Teacher of the Deaf positions and haven't gotten much luck so far. A ex-school interpreter confided in me, saying that school districts really don't want to hire Deaf ASL'ers, and really push the CI regimen along with intensive auditory-oral therapies upon young Deaf children in elementary school settings. Granted, the source of the comments, coming from an interpreter, could be taken with a couple grains of salt, and may only be applicable to her ex-school district.

All of this leaves us with the burning question of the day; What will happen to these Deaf children when they grow up 15 years from now? A lot of them will not have picked up ASL, and even if they were exposed to sign language, would usually learn the alphabet. They would still be mainstreamed into their local schools and would eventually enter mainstream colleges & universities, with nary a contact with other DHH individuals using ASL.

This is where I have mixed feelings; I strongly believe that DHH people should be mainstreamed and be exposed to standard educational offerings in their own neighborhood schools, at least in elementary and middle school settings. However, I still believe in ASL and it should be used alongside with the usual auditory-oral therapies. This is because once they enter high school, they should have sufficient language base in which they will need for the rest of their lives.

Back to the CI technology. Obviously, the 'Holy Grail' is a fully-implantable or transparent solution to hearing loss. This would mean that everything, i.e., making the BTE speech processor into a CIC, would be inside the ear canal, assuming it's still a 'CI'. And that such speech processing technologies will quadruple or quintuple in the future, along with substantial improvements in electrode arrays.

Other possibility is hair-cell regeneration, nanotechnology stuff, etc. This would allow a 'transparent' solution to hearing loss and cure it, especially when used on newly-diagnosed infants. There's no speech processing technologies or electronics to worry about. Moreover, the medical care system is continually improving, virtually reducing the incidence of Deafness to even lower levels.

It is along these unseen hearing technologies in the future, and the continuing pathological view of Deafness, is what will ultimately 'doom' Deaf culture. It could happen like 30-50 years from now. Simply put, any culture needs continuing inflows of new members, and how can it grow of such members do not learn sign language and join their culture? Maybe the current CI generation in elementary schools all over North America, will still pick up ASL. But what about the next generation that comes along 20 years later?

Again, I have mixed feelings about this, as I do not wish Deafness on any other people now and in the future. However, I treasure Deaf Culture and gladly participate in its many functions, attending events, participating in cultural enrichment, etc. More importantly, I value ASL immensely and view it as my language. I find it saddening to view 'professionals' working with young Deaf children, our future, and maligning ASL or discouraging it altogether.

IceCream

To be purely honest, I feel very much that the Deaf Culture exaggerate some things about the CI. I feel strongly that the Deaf Culture CHOOSE to be slapped in the face and feel betrayed. Medicine is not doing anything wrong. That's what medicine does. They come up with ways to help us. That's what they do just like helping people see and other people have skin to help them feel more normal. So when a CI device came out, the Deaf Culture suddenly wanted to destroy it to keep the deaf deaf. Some people want to be hearing. That's a fact. I feel that the Deaf Culture exaggerate certain things about the CI. I feel it's completely sick to tell every deaf person and every deaf parent not to choose hearing for their children, so that the Deaf Culture can thrive on. I wonder, don't Deaf people know that deaf people have already seen the Deaf culture, and maybe they just don't want to be a part of it? Should all deaf people be part of the Deaf culture? Why? Just because we are deaf? That's like saying, you should be part of the KKK because your parents are. If there are deaf people who do not want to be part of the Deaf Culture, that's their choice. What if the KKK died because more Christians changed the KKK to view the world differently? Maybe CIers feel rejected the same way because the Deaf Culture rejects them for their CI and exaggerates facts about the CI. Since the beginning of the CI, Deaf Culture have put their swords up, so some people want to hear and choose to leave the Deaf Culture because of rejection. I am not sure that sounds like it's the CI fault.

DefLord

That is quite true.. I have seen some individuals when (this was back in teh 90's) they had a CI - teh deaf community would bash them and make teh CI individual feel ashamed. So because of this they developed an attitude why should I hang around with them and I can just move on. This was the first trickle of pushing the CI individuals away. Even though now it is becoming a bit more accepting but still ways to go. Point is being, we shouldn't punish the child if their parents implants them adn teh same time we should NEVER tell the child their parents were wrong for implanting them. It would only cause more resistance. At the same time we should show the CI user the other side what they could be missing.

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Billy

ayala920

Your words are, by far, some of the wisest I've heard on this issue. I personally think one of the biggest reasons that CIs could destroy Deaf Culture is because of all the arguing. Both sides trying to force their views on the other. Deaf people (note: not ALL, but some) without implants calling parents who implant their children "abusive," and pushing away friends who choose to get implants. Fighting won't help the situation. Acceptance, understanding, and open-mindedness will. You don't have to agree with those who choose to get implants (or don't!), you just have to accept them as people.

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~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

IslandGal

You are right about this but what about some of CI'ers who push their deaf friends away just because they choose to be around hearing people only?

IslandGal

Awww thank you
You are right.

Angel

I've seen it goes both ways hon just like some CI users push deaf folks away...

__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Angel

:grins: you're welcome my darling

__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

ayala920

I never said that this was exclusive to one side or the other, I just pulled out a few examples.

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~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

Angel

Oh okay, Thanks Ayala920

__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

R2D2

I know how you feel Cheri. To be honest with you I sometimes feel this lack of two way respect here as well. When those with CIs try and write posts setting the record straight about CIs in response to incorrect statements we get called Bible thumpers and this on a CI board. I mean it's not as if they are going over to the ASL board and bombarding people with information about CIs.

I so agree with you about two way respect. It is so important to respect each other's choices as being the best choice for ourselves. I think it's the sign of a mature culture, the ability to accept and embrace differences rather than feel threatened by them or somehow feel that other people aren't really deaf or accepting of their deafness. The same thing works vice versa e.g. for a person who gets a CI just to get rid of their deaf friends (dumb!).

By the way Angel this is a great question. Thanks for bringing it up. I'm sorry you were called all those names and hope it didn't happen here. There are ignorant people in every walk of life unfortunately. I think that you can't win whatever you do. There is always someone who has an opinion about it unfortunately! We all have to simply have the confidence to do what is right for us and stuff everyone else.

Angel

Does that mean I am wide now? LOL

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Angel

:grins: Thank you R2D2 for being kind and I agree

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

R2D2

How common is that to happen? I mean I always assumed that people who got CIs were either strongly part of the hearing world prior to a CI anyway or who function in both and continue to do so. It seems such a shame (and idiotic) to throw away years of friendships just because they now have a CI. Is it happening on a scale to affect the future of the deaf culture? This is a genuine question.

sr171soars

I never quite understood that concept myself. I admit I can understand why they do that (the psychology) but I think it is rather like shooting oneself in the foot. What price friendships especially good ones? What does a CI have to do with it? Friendships should transend such differences... Some of the greatest friendships have been the ones that the two people are totally different from each other and yet they have an understanding between them.

I will say this as well, sometimes you just have to let them go and find their way. They may realize their mistake and come back. If they don't, they weren't really your friend to begin with. Life happens to everybody and the ones who can live and let live are the best in dealing with the ups and downs that come along. Is it fair? Heck no, life is not fair. Nobody is immune to the vicissitudes of life.

Given all that, don't let that be a reason to be upset with all CI folks out there. Most of us are quite reasonable people and put on our pants like anybody else. Everybody got their idiots that can spoil the party. Just ignore them...

Foxrac

Of course, I attended CSDR in few years ago that where students are intresting with strong influence about deaf culture. This deaf school is strongly opposed for kids that who want get cochlear and it's very impossible about deaf children need it... reminds me like conservative families make their deaf children to get surgery for new CI and it can ruin their ears when they are getting old depends on health condition and some children died from CI surgery, I believe so... I just got alot of information from large of deaf group.

I was voluteer at some elementary school in LA area and love to meet deaf children, no one from elementary school in LA have CI because we help their parent and support deaf culture. The children with CI are common in Southeast states. Conservative families in CA are opposed with CI too, unlike anywhere such Southeast states. Please trust to deaf culture and we are predicted that California is great state to meet our deaf culture, it's my opinion.

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In Moto We Trust

Cousin Vinny

[Carnival Barker]Come one, come all! See the amazing 8th wonder of the Free World! Learn about the ancient black arts of dactylology! Sound off! 1, 2, 3 (ASL 3, not Hearing 3, which looks like an ASL 6!), 4...

It bears repeating, and make no mistake about it... This isn't some bearded lady that swallows swords and breathes fire. Much more astounding than that, I assure you! All the adjectives, colloquilisms, limericks, haikus, lyrical onomatopoeia, witticisms, and fortune cookie incisiveness, all combined simply fall short in truly describing what is behind Door Number 3. (And yes, it is ASL 3... Now you're catching on!) Sound off, 1, 2, 3 (Ah, ah!), 4!

The catch, you may all inquire, deeply rooted in your mastoid bone, in viewing this majestic wonder? Does one have to sell his/her soul to a nefarious party, dressed in trenchcoats and Raybans, in return for this amazing secret? Is there some blue pill I'm gonna swallow, and chase the rabbit down the hole? Ah, there must be some princely sum involved! Worry not, be happy, thine cybernetic carbon-based lifeforms. There is no catch involved, will not tax your wallet, is definitely soul enhancing, and will give ya'll warm and fuzzy feelings! Ok, some manual dexerity is de rigeur! Sound off, 1, 2, 3 (Sing with me in ASL!), 4!

*Swishing the curtains open!* A black room, seemingly devoid of life fills the expanse, subjecting the audience to a dreary and disappointing experience. Suddenly, two white gloves make a sudden appearance and dance, flit, zig-zag, and hover all over the room. Before long, a mesmerizing display of digital brillance (And I'm not talking about the computer variety, either!) bursts forth in kaleidoscopic brilliance, illuminating each and every one of the staring and agape faces! Sound off, 1, 2, 3 (Yes, that means you!), 4!

Ladies and gents, and as well as bearded ladies with an affinity for swords tempered in high temperatures, what you've just witnessed, I sincerely hope you will take to heart and may it forever change your life! Start moving those digits on your hands and let it do all the talking... [/Carnival Barker]

How's that for imagination? Sound off!