Eve

I thought this topic was about cochlear implants???

However, I do tend to agree that the b.s. is a bit one-sided, SM.

Deafness

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Eve

Oh, and FYI, the rules have changed: Forum Rules

Sweetmind

We can have one language of ASL and SE that goes with or without orally speaking that I m looking at is really FAIR choices. I have no object for people who made their choices not by the parents who have so much prejudice attitudes that where it comes from MEDICAL professionals.

Malfoyish

And I'm sure you are the expert on respect. When dealing with something like respect, you might benefit from actually GIVING some in order to receive someone else's.

Let's see....self-centered...now THAT, you have a perfect handle on. After all, everything is about YOU, isn't it?

For some reason, I don't find this amusing. My sense of humor must be failing.

You see - it is MY belief that deaf individuals are fully CAPABLE of functioning - whether they choose to function in a hearing environment or in a anti-audist, militant extremist society like you pride yourself in doing. It all boils down to choice. That's the bottom line. Who are you to judge those who feel that they need a cochlear implant, or even their hearing aid in order to assist them in functioning in the manner that they choose?

Maybe you're not functioning well in a silent world. You seem to have enough resistance for that claim to hold water.

And no, I don't see any problem with any deaf person wanting to have a CI or wear hearing aids. I suppose that my audist attitude is to blame here.

You seem to lie to yourself quite well. I'll have you know that I do VERY well in a hearing society, and personally, I don't have any reservations with my lifestyle. I still consider myself to be a CI-wearing deaf person, but I'll NOT try to "follow" other people's standards by sidestepping what I feel comfortable with. I speak. I rarely use sign language unless I am with someone who requires for me to sign. I learned to sign in college and I did so out of respect for myself, my hearing loss, and for those around me who were hearing impaired. That was my choice. I may ACT as if I am hearing but that's all I learned how to do, but I'll never say I'm not deaf, either.

When it comes from you, you're right. There's no such thing as two-way streets. Only dead ends and one way routes. The Sweetmind way or the highway, is that it?

Good luck getting people to travel in your direction. Looks like you have your work cut out for you - and this ain't something you can look up on Mapquest, either.

Who said anything about force? Most of us who are posting here are old enough to make their own decisions. Contrary to popular belief, even if it's yours alone, not everyone is spoon-fed and molded to fit society by anyone other than themselves.

Sweetmind

We can have one language of ASL or BSL or JSL and one Engish language that relates to SE that goes with or without orally speaking that I m looking at is really FAIR choices for everyone. I have no object for people who made their choices not by the parents who have so much prejudice attitudes that where it comes from MEDICAL professionals.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

Malfoyish

I'll be one of the first to admit that I've read your writings many times. I can see that you have a very limited spectrum on deaf issues. Part of being a writer is covering ALL bases and being as informative as possible and then stating WHY you agree or disagree. A good informative author should always maintain a positive attitude about the subject, even when they don't necessarily believe in it.

Awwww. Don't hate yourself. Another important factor any good writer must possess is a strong self-image and self-confidence.

Bottom line - if you MIND, is - don't discount other opinions in your writings. You'll find that any potential book sales will benefit from it.

Eve

pssssstttt quote is spelled with a "Q" NOT a "G"!

Malfoyish

This is everyone's business - how???? This can be constituted as harassment. You need to be very careful.

Ever occur to you that it was removed because this isn't the place for it?

Ohhh! I see! Two wrongs make a right!

Now you've harassed two people in this post of yours - two people have been named.

You're responsible only for yourself and your own behavior. If a MODERATOR does not feel your words are of appropriate value, then he has every right to remove them.

If you still have a personal grudge with a certain someone - take it off of here and address the situation where no one here has to sit through it. If you air your dirty laundry where it's not supposed to be, then you are just INVITING people to get involved and things will get ugly.

Common courtesy!

rockdrummer

I'm sorry but I don't see the contradiction. I am in fact agreeing with you. I am saying I will try anything that works. And just because something doesn't work today doesn’t mean I am throwing that tool away. It will always be there incase it works down the road. As my comment states, I will not get stuck on a single solution but that doesn't mean I am going to only try one thing at a time either. I totally understand that he will need a multiple of solutions and apply what is appropriate to a given situation.
I will expose him to as many tools as are available and let his natural capabilities decide which one gets focused on. This I am sure will change as time goes on and he learns more resulting in a "toolbox" of communication solutions he will be able to pull from.
Pardon my ignorance but I am not sure what you mean. English is what we speak and that is the language of choice. Additionally, the schools that he attends are teaching total communication methods which I happen to agree with. This gives him the exposure to the library that you mention. They also focus on signed English vs. ASL because they are attempting to teach proper English. It seems that signed English would be more cumbersome for personal communications but it does teach literacy, (or should I say proper English). To me ASL appears to be an efficient way to communicate with your hands. So I like the fact that he is learning SE for proper English but I also believe he needs to learn ASL for personal communications not to mention other methods as well.
I completely agree with that however my son is not able to make those choices yet. His "toolbox" doesn't contain anything other that a few signs that he has learned. He is not doing so well with the sign language or written but he is really excelling in the phonics they are teaching him. He also does outstanding in math. I understand that every kid is gonna learn at different paces and one kid will do well with a given method while another wont. I am very happy that the schools are adjusting the curriculum around his needs and not applying one solution to the entire class. I really applaud them for that. The first goal is communication in any form. I don't care what that is... he needs to be able to communicate.

My comment about him being shunned by the natural deaf is based on what I am learning here about the separatism that appears to exist within the deaf community. Please take this comment with a grain of salt. This is my opinion (and please correct me if I am wrong). There appears to be division within the deaf community. The naturally deaf, vs. those that use some sort of device, vs. the tweeners and then there are the audist. I really don't understand what an audist is and would like someone to explain that to me. And there may be even more division between how one chooses to communicate be it ASL, Cued, SE etc.

Since I am hearing, there is a lot I don't understand about the deaf community. I admit that but each day I am learning more and more thanks to this site and folks like you. I don't understand it all and I don't even know that our approach to his learning is correct. There are many different opinions and approaches out there which make it even more difficult to decide. I don't know it all and this whole thing scares the shit out of me. Am I making the right decisions? Is he progressing? When do we try something new? I have never experienced this before and I am really flying by the seat of my pants here. But one thing is for sure, I am not going to make my decisions by rolling the dice or sitting on my ass hoping for the best. I am going to educate myself as much as I can. That includes recommendations by the school system, my personal learning of the deaf community, and hearing the comments from people in here.

I just want to tell all of you that I am very happy you are all here and appreciate all of your comments weather I agree with them or not. Even getting bitched out by Kalista for using the term handicap. While her response felt like a punch in the stomach to me, it taught me a valuable lesson. I welcome your insight, your anger, your triumphs and anything you can offer. Sometimes I feel like a deer caught in the headlights.

Thank you all.

Malfoyish

Rockdrummer -

Your post was very well written.

You will not find the word "audist" in the dictionary. I would suggest asking the person who uses it the most what THEY define it as. Basically, the poster who overuses this word is using it in a negative manner.

Welcome to AD, by the way - I see you're relatively new here. As you can see, there are quite a few conflicting opinions as far as CI's are concerned as well as the other "tools" you mentioned.

I applaud you and anyone else who chooses to make use of all of these options. Because one is deaf does not automatically render it forbidden to, if they're capable, make use of the several other choices that are presented to them - be it HA's, CI's, neither one, both of them, to speak or to sign, and so forth.

I chose to get the CI - I was pressured, yes, but in the end, I chose what I thought would be beneficial to me as a mother raising two small children and a young baby. In no way did I lose sense of what I am - and that's deaf. However, if I succeed all the while I've made my own choices, then I'm happy.

Tousi

Very good, Rockdrummer! For a hearing person, you sure have a handle on things; you have the gift of discernment by being open to any and everything thhat will work/apply to your child. Half the battle is over! I'm glad your'e here, too as I can see that you have the ability to ascertain what's best for your child in spite of some of the commentary that goes on here. Yours will be a well-rounded child!

Do you mind telling us the name of the school your child goes to? It sounds like a good one that takes an individualistic approach to the education of the students attending....

Sweetmind

http://groups.msn.com/DREN-DeafRight...36710486705447

http://deafness.about.com/cs/deafculture/a/audism.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=audis...&start=10&sa=N

Thats for you, rockdrummer

Thank you!

rockdrummer

Thanks for your kind words. It’s funny though that you say this and yet the picture you use says “I smell an audist!” What is meant by that?
Thank you

Thank you for your kind words also. Hmmm.. my gut tells me not to reveal that specific information on the web to strangers. While I am sure you are well intended, please put yourself in my shoes. What I will tell you is that my child is in Illinois school district 44. I don’t know if it’s the schools decision as much as it’s the teacher’s recommendations that allow for these curriculum adjustments. Obviously the school has to support the teacher’s recommendations.


Thank you Sweetmind. This is very helpful. After reading these descriptions it seems to me that audist equates to prejudice and discrimination. Do I have that correct?

Thank you

Malfoyish

My purpose for using the avatar is to simply prove the point that you appear to have gotten just by reading the links provided to you above. My way of being smart-arsed since "audist" or at least some of these harebrained perceptions of what an audist is - pertains to me as well as any other deaf individual who thrives in an oral society.


It would appear so, yes. Anyone who is "audist" is no friend of Sweetmind's.

Sweetmind

I feel trapped between both sides Hearing and deaf and deaf oralism people thats the purpose for me to mention the audist attitude means in other post. So I guess they dont get the light blub yet.

Sweetmind 's Thats a real answer that we all have a serious problem by audist attitude people.. It s really screwed up for all of us.

Thats not how I treat people like that. Thats what it gives me impression that negative people influenced others how they think it has to be this way while it s very offensive for me. I just dont feel too comfortable about everything for what people s prejudice or discrimination affects us like that. It needs to be stop this abusive going on for years and years.

ASL and Signed English combines altogether as equal that helps us deafies and d/Deaf Blind with their braille code. You think ASL makes us not to speak our d/Deaf voices. I find this is a real outrageous for you to think that way. I will say it s good to have oral speaking with ASL because it s from word to word that we can understand it better. Thats our oral method survival kit that we need to have the encouragement of fun things to learn which is fine with me but force or conform or manipulate us into a hearing person that is out of the question. Does it makes sense to you? Dont expect us to hear like a hearing people can normally hear or speak well or read their kind of different lip movements 100 percent with our devices. Face the Deaf Reality!

I am very discouraged people are abusing d/Deaf children way too much for years and years from audist attitude people.. IT NEEDS TO BE STOP.

Get on with the natural method of ASL and enjoy with A LOVE and BOND between parents and d/Deaf children that is the most important thing in the beginning of our life. It is way much better than having all those artificial languages.. Thats our Deaf adaption that it should allow their children to have that chance to be themselves as a Deaf kid first.

Sighs! People are hurting you with your own struggles. I will not tolerate this kind of old behavior pattern that continue until todays from the past years. So therefore you dont need a HA/ CI as required because MEDICAL said so. That gives me the impression, thats how I see it. Thats a lie!!!

For god 's sake! Wake up!!

Many thanks!
Sweetmind

Liza

Sweetmind, action speaks louder than words.. I am curious about what you have done to help improve our Deaf situation?

Perhaps we can start working on a solution together. I'm not interested in words. They are nothing. Action is everything.

Let me know!

Sweetmind

Yes you are that correct.

Malfoyish

That being said, wouldn't you agree that using such terms in the manner that you do can also be described as prejudiced and discriminating?

Sweetmind

I have done it a lot different philosphy of mine from theirs because I am still get the same feelings what audist attiude people use too much oralism s way that where they learned from audist attitude people that carries on and on and on.. I dont agree with this kind of attitude. Thats all to it! It s way too much about oral method s behaviors that many parents are getting it from one sided.

I did but they are too busy overlapping my writings that I am thinking of other people with disabilities's right to have ASL as a true language too. It s not all about me I m talking about a natural deaf people with or without HA/ CI. They have the similar problem that I have nothing to be ashamed of telling the truth. Thats my goal to get our d/Deaf adaptions and d/Deaf mental and emotional to be healthy again. We were fine babies from day 1 to 2 years old then all of sudden parents has change the view of our deafness. What s that supposed to be? It s not necessary at all.

Okay now I am considering to have my hearing child to be a deaf person so I have my right decision to have them to become deaf. Thats the same concept here. All of sudden I am so wrongdoing it. It is okay for Hearing people do this. Wow there is a real something wrong here. Audist attitude people disagreed with me. What a joke! I disagree with those MEDICAL professionals and audist attitude people s negative view of our Deafness as one - sided again. Thats what I am seeing nowadays. TOO OVERRATED about oralism issues. That s turn me off completely. it s totally here..


Change your attitude and Resepct all kind of deaf people and d/Deaf /Hearing disabilities with their own different cultures not just for deaf oralism only . Thank you! And also you missed out the one importance of good example of audist attitude with two faced. Thats why I felt offended by this action that has removed it from here. I felt it s not right at all because it s okay for hearing people to say someone s SN because it bothers her too. and Now I cannot say anything.. Thats what it turns me off. Their many hidden messages that is that you dont know the truth.. Sighs! What a very immature two faced of being advocate for Deaf community thats when we strongly believe in that stands up for a good reason.

Sighs!

Sweetmind

Malfoyish

Only Sweetmind's writings are to be taken seriously. Really.

Get OVER yourself. People are ALLOWED to overlap your writings by way of agreeing to disagree.

Whaaaaatttt?????????????

It is a medical professional's JOB to provide all sorts of avenues, even if it's advising. In the long run, it's the individual's choice to live in the manner they see fit and the manner in which he or she is comfortable.

Pertaining to CI's - it's out there, so yes, medical professionals are going to endorse it - not as a solution but as an option.

Foreign concept to someone like, oh, let's see...YOU....but that's just the way it is.

Liza

Hey, Malfy... sometimes things are all good and well when all options are presented... but it does seem a bit unfair to me that in Norway deaf children will get better care if they get CI (words of a mom who has a child with CI) than if they didn't get CI at all. I don't understand why some people are biased pretty when it comes to those things.. note I didn't say ALL people. *giggle*

Malfoyish

Noted, my dear Liza.

Passivist

The point to be made is nobody needs to feel trapped between deaf culture conformities, or Hearing ones, we are a SEPERATE sector, recognise THIS. As for the let's get together bit, c'mon, this is NOT about unity, it is about need being recognised as well as individuals. Whenever non-cultural deaf or hearing loss people put the point 'we are here too and want different access or support' THEN we get the unity view used against us ! This is unfair, and I put it, irrelevant. QUOTE: I thought this was about CI's". It is about US, and all has a bearing on the debate.

The anti-CI view is predominantly one that comes from the signing community, the PRO view is predominantly from those who have various losses of hearing or acquired deafness, despite attempts by deaf activisim to suggest it is a 'hearing' thing, it ISN'T, it's OUR view. Face US and stop attacking others, as deaf people too, we are not going to automatically support things we do not agree with, if we feel a CI will benefit, we'll take it ! If we feel sign lamnguage willhelp we will use THAT too, but we will not feel we owe culture anything, communication rights are for all.

The unawareness of the established 'Deaf Community' is really mind boggling, they do not know how we feel, act, or think regarding the fact we cannot hear ! It never stops them telling us to support THEIR idea of how deafness should be seen (The deaf 'Image'). I will respect anyone that respects me, but it is a 50-50 deal, sign users HAVE to accept we support CI's, oral usage, and whaetver else we may find floats our boat, or we will never respect your culture or ASL/BSL.

Tough talking, any unity has to be balanced, that means concessions need to be made, deaf culture seems NOT able to make these concessions, so unity is not possible, just co-eistence with occasional spats like this ! If their access helps us, we'll support it, if it goes against ours we won't. I'm hanging on no-ones shirt tails. It doesn't have to be immovable force meets unmovable object, but if that's the way...

Sweetmind

http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.ph...578#post490578 Perfect example here..

Have a Happy Reading!!!

Passivist

I read the term 'Audist' and I'm afraid my attention wanders I'm afraid. It's not a term we in the UK recognise. A lot felt it was anti-hearing campaigning, which isn't helpful, and it wasn't made clear the difference between someone who was deliberately abusive, and anti-deaf and someone who just couldn't follow or is unaware. I know Americans are fond of this new word, but it's not used properly is it ? Using it as a weapon to 'bash' hearing people doesn't help us. We all know life is unfair, and laws are just printed words on paper, so it's down to us as it always is to make it CLEAR how communication works for us, and what doesn't. If a deaf person is just quoting rights in people's faces and intransigent, then this will delay people making effort, not assist it. People respond to a smile and a bit of leeway, less so to someone 'In your face' and looking aggressive. we've (I have !), wandered off topic a bit, sorry. Everything we discuss is relative, as deafness/loss is the ultimate democrat, it picks anyone ! Maybe some prefer this or that mode, that's all it's about really, we often can't agree on accepting this.

loml

me_punctured,

I grew up using English.

Understanding and knowledge of CS continues to make steady progress.
having said that, there is still confusion amongst some groups. I am fortunate to have the opportunity of the internet to assit in the clarification of CS.

Ultimately, CS is about literacy, language and communication.

How nice of you to have had the opportunity to use CS.

Side bar:

May I be so bold as to inquire, do you yourself, read phonetically?

loml

Sweetmind,

Actually, I would indeed say WOW to CS as it has proven itself time and again as an effective tool for literacy. CS is the system and for me English is the language represented. CS has never stated that it was a language.

As far as your "oral" comment, I see this same reaction over and over again with Deaf people. CS could be used with the oral method, if that was the choice that the parents made. I have seen and heard profoundly deaf people talk rythmically like the other members of their families, that is their choice.

It is very apparent to me, that you have not had the opportunity to learn CS.

For people who are intrigued by CS, I recommend the following book:

"The Cued Speech Resource Book for Parents". Dr. R. Orin Cornett

loml

me_punctured,

I am hearing, I am female, I am Canadian, I am dark haired(most of the time), I am fair skinned with freckles, and so on and so on.......

highlands

I'm hard of hearing,I'm male,I'm from Europe,I have brown hair, I'm white skinned ... LOL

Whenever there is a thread about CI ,after all the thread is turned to be a battle between sign users and hearies .. WHY !

Angel

Hmmm....I thought this thread was about " Cochlear Implants " but seems it's heading to a totally different direction, to the point where I'm totally lost here...


Yike!

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