flashbolt

Hi Everyone

I'm John and i have a deaf son who's 9 months old now, i was considering having a cochlear implant for him but someone advised me to ask the deaf community for advice before making a decision and that's what i really need from u , can anyone preferably with experience about the subject advise me if it really does help or not.
plus definitely u will get a "sugar-coated" view of a cochlear implant from those who sale them, despite any good intentions.

please advise ^^

Regards,

Deafness

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Anij

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Regardless of if you decide to go with a CI or not - please make sure your family also learns ASL (if you live in the USA or Canada).

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Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD
English & ASL ...PAH!!


Ignorance is NOT Bliss

drphil

Hi John: I have had my Cochlear Implant for 5 years without "any advice from the Deaf community". aside: I was implanted at 70 and a non ASL user though bilateral DEAF since December 2006.

From the many comments here re: Implants for children you should get some ideas on the wide range of opinions.

Happy reading

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Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

Anij

You elected not to get involved with the Deaf Community. That's you're right and choice ...

Also, because you became deaf or "DEAF" as you call it, as an adult ... you did have access to speech for most of your life. That makes a huge difference "drphil" especially since this family needs to address early years language acquisition (for example choosing to be bi-lingual ASL & English), socialization, education and many many other things.

You were a hearing person, who became hard of hearing, then deaf - which is a very different situation than being born hoh or deaf (or becoming so, pre-lingually). You've chosen to isolate yourself from the Deaf and ASL communities - and attempt to be a functionally "hearing-like" person ... something much easier to do with 70years of hearing experience and hearing memory.

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Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD
English & ASL ...PAH!!


Ignorance is NOT Bliss

set2

Let the games begin! Wait for It, Wait For it, I see this thread being locked. Ok, be nice everyone. Respect both points of view OK!!!!!!

Bottesini

I think most of the people who cared are gone.

(Hope that speak of the devil saying doesn't come true.)

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Anij

I'm not trying to be argumentative - I'm just pointing out that the OP stated:
To that end - "drphil" has repeatedly stated that he isn't part of the deaf community AND doesn't want to be part of the deaf community.
Also the OP is asking about an infant - which means that those of us who were born hoh or deaf or became deaf pre/paralingually are going to have more valuable input about what it's actually like to be a hoh/deaf infant than someone who was hearing, then slowly became hoh as an adult, then got a CI when they were 70years old.

Again, not being argumentative - just pointing out those facts.

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Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD
English & ASL ...PAH!!


Ignorance is NOT Bliss

BoricuaChevere

Please don't implant your child. He doesn't have the choice. Let him decide when he's older. But for now get him involved the Deaf community and in a Deaf school. Learn ASL and make sure its full ASL. He doesn't have the decision himself at this moment. Please let him decide when he's old enough to understand. Make sure you all get to know your local Deaf community. Best wishes!

Bottesini

To be fair, it looks like he is looking for people with experience with CI, not just garden variety deaf people...

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BoricuaChevere

True, but we also need to give him our side and our Deaf culture perspective. He still needs both sides. I personally don't believe in implanting children. It's inhumane and uncivilized. But that's my belief.

deafdyke

CIs have gotten a lot more accepted in the past few years. I do think however that one of the major objections to it, is still that it can be VERY hard to accurately tell if a baby NEEDS it or not. The thing is, they're now implanting babies who still have residual hearing. Back ten years ago it was just deep profound kids. (no response to hearing aids whatsoever) Even deep profound babies play the " Now I hear you, now I don't game."
If it is obvious that a baby has NO hearing whatsoever (ie deep profound or auditory nereopathy) then yes.......go for implantation.
But if there's still some residual hearing, I wouldn't panic......It's really hard if not impossible to accuratly tell how well a baby hears with heairng aids.
Also, did you know that back in the day when hearing aids were introduced, deafies were AGAINST them?
The key really is to make the choices that will give your kid the best and most options, whether that be, hearing aids, CIs, speech training etc. But the most important thing is to give them ASL, and as many options as possible.

green427

Good luck with your decision. As a parent, you need to decide what is best for your child.

You are asking one of the most volatile questions on a forum set up for deaf people, so expect a lot of emotional replies.

Research shows that CI's are much more successful in children when implanted as early as possible. CI's are not as effective when placed in later after the brain has developed while not having any hearing experience....so, you will have to make a decision soon.

Keep in mind that CI's are not 100% successful, and every person has different results.

The way I see it, if your child is going to grow up in the deaf world, and work in the deaf world, the CI/HA may not be necessary.

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Warning: Anything I post may not make any sense. All advice is for entertainment value only. Sarcasm might be present. Interpret at your own risk.

deafdyke

Oh, and I may not have a CI, but I AM HOH. Kids with CIs are functionally HOH. They are going through the exact same thing I experianced.......I am glad I can hear and talk. It's a good skill....but it shouldn't be the ONLY skill available to a dhh kid. The best idea is a full toolbox....I do know that many Deafies aren't as anti CI when ASL is ALSO offered.

drphil

Hi John again: your comment re: sugar coding/sale. re Cochlear Implant.
Where I "got my Implant" after extensive discussions/health examination etc.-Sunnybrook/Toronto. Interesting factual info: they started in 1984. reviewed 3000 patients and approved 1000 for Implantation. Of which 18 were unsuccessful eg no benefit. Info late last year-patients yearly meeting.
aside: I am one of 1000

More pertinent to you" Sick Kids/Toronto handle all babies/children. Exact statistics unknown to me-somewhat "similar".
again John much success in trying circumstances re: Cochlear Implant consideration

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Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

BleedingPurist

John,

Green247's advice to you is good. I'm not sure you were given good advice in the first place in regards to seeking advice from the Deaf community. You need to understand the Deaf community before you go seeking help from them. Case in point, you've already been told to let your son decide if he wants an implant when he gets older. Green247 gave you the truth on that. Once you let that window during the first couple months pass... your son is never going to have a shot at hearing well, ever. Even if we see a cure in our lifetime, he will not benefit.

You are best off focusing on discussing it with parents of (and their) kids who were implanted during the first several months. They would be the experts on it as far as personal experiences go. They can advise you on educational approach as well.

bbaseballboy123

I am one of the proud people to be implanted as a baby.

I always say, implanting a baby is like training a puppy. Its easier for them to hear/ and have good speech if they start training early. I know many people have a really hard time trying to adapt to an implant if they wait til their old enough

But I cant stress enough that even though you want him to hear... MAKE HIM LEARN ASL.

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Deaf and Smart. Business Major at RIT. Have Bi-lateral cochlear implants. But know ASL as well.

Working on a new project that will benefit deaf peeps

overthepond

I am a Pre lingual profound deaf adult, I was born profoundly deaf, I learnt signing before learing to speak at 5 years old. My parents have always tried to make me use my residual hearing (which is very little) it was difficult, funstrating and tiring even though I was a good hearing aid user. I mix well in both deaf and hearing communities, my main form of language today is spoken english, I work at hearing school and as part time (to keep me busy!!) in retail working at customer services till.
I went down the CI route at the age of 30 (i did push for one since age of 20 but the hospital says i wouldn;t benefit it because i was deaf too long and I was PROFOUNDLY deaf since birth hence no awareness of sounds/auditory memory) I was one of the first at my Implant centre to be implanted as "Pre lingual deaf adult". It was incredibly hard work to learn the sounds. 4 years on i have far exceeded everyone's expecations.... but it's a slow progress, now every day i see a preligual deaf adults going down the same route as i did over 4 years ago... Many of them are my friends... they were skeptical at first then realised it's not a bad thing at all if they really want to hear better.
There may be deaf people who don't agree on implanting babies, but it's not their choice, it's up to you to know whats the best for your kid, they don't know you/your family, your lifestyle, what resources for you and the kid so on... but remember it's not a cure, it's an assistance to his hearing, he will still need another form of language in case it doesn't work or is off his ears.

All the best, fore most of all enjoy your little boy, they do grow up so fast!

flashbolt

Everyone

thank u all for your opinions and advice i appreciate them all, what i wanted to hear are the both sides opinion and choose what convince me,so if i could've meet up with parents who their child had a CI i would have done that already but i can't,so it's a really hard decision to make without asking for advice from you guys, for the members who think it's not right to to have a CI, what i wanted to know if it is really useful to the kid or not? for those who interacted with a CI child please fill me in.

thanks to you guys i will learn ASL even if my son had a CI ^_^
plus i would love to even hear from people who don't have CI but interacted with children's who does as mentioned above.

Thanks

overthepond

Lotte Sofie - Born august 2002, hearing since november 2004

another good source is... Google Deaf Village, lots of blogs about deaf kids/adults with/without CI's

green427

I met a handful of teenagers that were implanted as babies, and even though they were born 100% deaf, they are doing MUCH better than I am today. I lost about 80% of my hearing at age 4, wore hearing aids for the next 38 years, now I have 2 CI's. Yes, the CI is much better than my aids, and even though I got back about 80% of my hearing and can hear people talk, I still have speech discrimination issues. My brain 'hears' the voices, but oftentimes has trouble breaking the sounds down enough to figure out what that word was. Those teenagers I met were able to understand speech better.

Even if you implant your child, when the CI is turned off, he is still deaf and still needs some form of visual communication. As he gets older, he can decide whether he wants to use his CI or not.

PM me if you want to discuss my view on other sensitive subjects.

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Warning: Anything I post may not make any sense. All advice is for entertainment value only. Sarcasm might be present. Interpret at your own risk.

drphil

To state the matter baldly: I am bilateral DEAF since December 20, 2006. That fact will never change notwithstanding I have/use a Cochlear Implant.

What one does is in part up to you-or parents in case of young children - dealing with the fact of DEAFness-Your choice which!

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Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

GrendelQ

Frostbolt, I don't think anyone could or should convince you, you need to make the decision yourself and own it. What you probably need most is exposure to deaf children -- a whole range of deaf kids using various technologies and those who use none at all.

Your ENT / CI center may be able to introduce you to local children with CIs/HAs (and their families): mine did that for us. If you don't have a Deaf mentor, check with your commission for deaf and hoh in your state to get a list of schools for the deaf and make appts to visit them, to explore their parent infant programs, and to observe children in classrooms.

We eventually chose a bi-bi academic approach, but we first visited schools that took so many varied approaches, including oral, TC, bi-bi, and mainstream schools with dhh programs). We observed AVT sessions in process, we watched the children interact in an ASL daycare. We spoke with children of all ages and their families. We pored over blogs by families with deaf children, both those who opted for CI or HAs and those who chose not to use any hearing tech, and emailed those families with questions (and learned a great deal). Those blogs probably gave us the best and most realistic accounts of the ups and downs of all these different approaches.

Depending upon your location, you may be able to visit parent infant programs at your nearest school for the deaf to meet deaf adult volunteers and staff, deaf teenagers, other parents of deaf kids (deaf and hearing), as well as a whole range of deaf/hoh kids with a variety of approaches to technology in play. You can also attend conferences for hearing loss -- there are always deaf kids around, and you can strike up conversations asking people about their choices.

But most of all, we observed our daughter -- she very clearly gave us input and feedback -- even as a 1-2 YO -- that led us to our various decisions around language and education and technologies.

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CSign

I agree with Grendel that you shouldn't look to be "convinced" by posters on a virtually anonymous forum. I think some good suggestions have been made. The only thing I have to add, is that you should contact the CI center and let them know you'd like to get in contact with a few families to ask about their experiences. I'm almost certain they'd be able to come up with a few families who would be willing to talk with you.

ciavmom

I am the parent of two now grown children who were implanted as babies. You absolutely need to get both viewpoints and then make an educated decision. Those in the deaf culture cannot possibly educate you about the benefits of a CI because they don't have that firsthand experience. My daughters have never learned or needed sign language. They have thrived fully in the mainstream as hearing, speaking people. Their accomplishments include graduating with honors from high school and college, fluency in French, winning a spoken foreign language award, attending a top university and more. Their options for college were the same as my son with normal hearing. While a child raised without hearing in the deaf culture can succeed academically, it is more difficult when they cannot communicate with ease with all and need an interpreter to do so. For a child to realize optimal benefits from a CI, it has to be done early by three years of age at the absolute latest but preferably by age one, and then follow-up therapy such as Auditory-Verbal therapy to realize the full benefits of the CI is essential. Please click on the links at Speaking Up For Themselves | Cochlear Implant Online to read and hear many stories firsthand of those implanted as babies and toddlers.

deafdyke

On the other hand, your children cannot function without CIs. If you teach them to depend exlcusively on CIs and sound, they cannot function at ALL without sound and CIs.........What happens when their CI breaks? What happens when they're not in perfect listening situtiouns? Do your kids REALLY honestly feel a part of the hearing world 100%? Have they ever had a serious boyfriend? Can they function without their CI at ALL? Heck, you know, you need very good health insurance to even afford a CI. Health insurance is a BOONDOGGLE. You are making dhh kids DEPENDENT on health insurance. Even healthy hearing people cannot afford good uality health insurance b/c it is SO expensive! We have a poster who was AVT'd, and his CI broke and he couldn't function AT ALL.
You're also forgetting that kids who are AVT trained are monolingal. Isn't having TWO languages better then one?
There's also NO reason why kids cannot be fluent in ASL and spoken/written English and have the best of both worlds. Have you seen some of the bi/bi educated kids? They are fluent in both ASL and English, and are VERY WELL educated!

deafdyke

Oh, and ciav mom........did you just do a commerical? Is your daughter's business struggling? NOBODY is saying " go voice off" Even many Deaf of Deaf families have their kids enrolled in spoken language therapy. There are even a few who send them to oral schools!!! (I know of a couple of DODAs who sent their kids to Clarke and CID)
I also think those who push Inclusion and the Mainstream World At ALL costs, do not understand that just b/c a kid is pushed towards the mainstream, that they are going to be able to be High Acheivers. Even oral "sucesses" say they don't feel like they fit into the hearing world totally. Heck, I know of a lot of dhh kids who were pushed towards the hearing world, picked up the vibe that they needed to be NORMAL, at ALL costs, and it screwed them up psychologically and emotionally. Access to the mainstream world is NOT lacking at ALL....those of us who are dhh, can have partial access..........but we can NEVER be hearing.
How would you like to be raised with the unspoken attitude that " You must become normal? You must function normally at ALL costs!"? How would you like it, if your strenghs were ignored and you had to focus exclusively on a weakness? That is what auditory verbal therapy does...........it tries to make dhh kids function as Normally As Possible, and demonizes things like ASL, cued speech and even speechreading as "crutches" Quite frankly, I think that auditory verbal is child abuse/snake oil, and that parents who desperately want their kid to be "normal" chose it.

deafdyke

Exactly. Be very child centered, but also offer a full toolbox. No dhh kid is alike......but ALL dhh kids can benifit from a bilingal spoken and signed language approach. (meaning training in spoken language)

deafdyke

Yes, but how early is early? I mean we have the mentality that "OMG IMPLANT ASAP otherwise they'll be doomed to selling ASL cards on the subway"......but does a few months REALLY make a HUGE difference? I mean there were kids who weren't ID as dhh until they were 2 or 3 and they still developed spoken language skills/abilties......

GrendelQ

Yes.

DD, stating that a deaf child cannot function without CIs is offensive not just to that child and parent, but to all deaf children. Do you really believe this statement?

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GrendelQ

Sure they do. You probably haven't encountered it given that you have far less of a hearing loss than those who are deaf, but going "voices off" without attempting to work on speech development is an option -- a valid option -- for profoundly deaf children today.

I know many children who are being educated in a bilingual (ASL+ written English) environment and are not undertaking any spoken language training, are "voices off". They would not see any benefit in spoken language training.

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