Advice about remarks and jokes in the workplace...

**Daredevel7** · 09-15-2011, 12:57 PM

Here is the situation:

A man in my workplace has made jokes/comments/remarks about gay people. I personally have never heard them. One coworker complained about something he said in regards to gay people last year. Don't remember what he said. Another coworker, call him "Bob," has heard the offender make comments like "Yea he looks like he plays for the other side, if you know what I mean..." Well, another thing happened just now.

Bob and his 2 friends were bored waiting for a meeting to start. Bob and friend #1 started texting each other as a joke, even though they were sitting next to each other. Friend #2 said "Aww are you guys having a bro-dak moment?". The offender heard friend #2 and said to Bob and Friend#1, "yea, you guys look like queers."

Bob just went "har har..", but he got offended by it. He came to me asking for advice on whether he should tell our boss (who is also the offender's boss). I honestly don't know what to say because it's a blurry line, since Friend #2 did say something kinda gay "bro-dak moment." but she is a good friend of theirs and they joke about things like that.

Is it "offensive" enough to make a complaint with the boss? Or wait for another (more serious) incident, which probably would happen anyway.

Also, my boss is a religious man..... not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

Beach girl · 09-15-2011, 01:03 PM

"Bro-dak?" I've never even heard the phrase.

For me, just speaking generally, if I'm offended by something, I'd take it up with the individual first. After that, if the individual continues to be offensive, take it up with the relevant authorities if necessary.

**Bottesini** · 09-15-2011, 04:04 PM

I would probably be careful about taking it up with the guy making the remarks. You don't want to give him any reason to complain about you.

Hopefully your boss could be objective about enforcing rules against harassment and not let his religion get in the way.

Maybe you could post reminders of what constitutes workplace harassment where the offender is sure to see it?

***naisho*** · 09-15-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

"Bro-dak?" I've never even heard the phrase.

Yeah it is hip/modern lingo. Ever heard of a kodak moment? Brothers (bro) + kodak = bunch of guys together = bro-dak moment.

I'm not sure how I would proceed in you/Bob's situation. I'd be wary of "mr. cool" looking for revenge if I reported him (would consider it before I do it).

The thing with teh boss feels a little tight too, do you have a good grasp on his personality? If he is one of those against gays I can totally picture him saying something like "well... We'll just let this one slide, next time if he does this, you come back and report to me mmm'kay?"

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Here is the situation:

A man in my workplace has made jokes/comments/remarks about gay people. I personally have never heard them. One coworker complained about something he said in regards to gay people last year. Don't remember what he said. Another coworker, call him "Bob," has heard the offender make comments like "Yea he looks like he plays for the other side, if you know what I mean..." Well, another thing happened just now.

Bob and his 2 friends were bored waiting for a meeting to start. Bob and friend #1 started texting each other as a joke, even though they were sitting next to each other. Friend #2 said "Aww are you guys having a bro-dak moment?". The offender heard friend #2 and said to Bob and Friend#1, "yea, you guys look like queers."

Bob just went "har har..", but he got offended by it. He came to me asking for advice on whether he should tell our boss (who is also the offender's boss). I honestly don't know what to say because it's a blurry line, since Friend #2 did say something kinda gay "bro-dak moment." but she is a good friend of theirs and they joke about things like that.

very simple. There's nothing gray about it. Your workplace already has a company policy about this issue. you can simply refer them to their employee handbook about it. What they're doing is a liability issue and they can be either suspended or fired for it.

If the colleague is offended or bothered by coworker's remark such as gay slur, discrimination, racist, etc... he can kindly ask him to stop it. If it continues to persists or if he is not comfortable with confronting that person to stop it, he can simply notify his boss about it to handle it. and if it STILL continues to persist, Human Resource will get involved and that shit ain't good. This constitutes "Hostile Work Environment".

I highly recommend that you tell your colleague to talk to him tell him not to do it again and that it's not appropriate in workplace. This is usually the best and simplest way to resolve the issue. It always end with a handshake and apology. Water under bridge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Is it "offensive" enough to make a complaint with the boss? Or wait for another (more serious) incident, which probably would happen anyway.

it doesn't matter if your boss thinks it's nothing or not. What matters is that if YOU (or whoever) as an employee felt uncomfortable even if it's a guy blatantly walking past your cubicle to look down your blouse when his office is out of the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Also, my boss is a religious man..... not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

religious or not... still doesn't matter. If your boss ignored the problem because of his bias with gay thing... then he's in deep shit.

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

"Bro-dak?" I've never even heard the phrase.

For me, just speaking generally, if I'm offended by something, I'd take it up with the individual first. After that, if the individual continues to be offensive, take it up with the relevant authorities if necessary.

me either. Bro-Dak???

**sallylou** · 09-15-2011, 06:23 PM

Suggest to your boss that some sexual harrasment training would be helpful?

HR wants to know about this stuff. Be careful because HR is the management's tool.

**sallylou** · 09-15-2011, 06:24 PM

Brodak: The perfect time for a picture with only the guys
The guys and I all passed out on the couch last night. It was such a brodak moment

Jazzberry · 09-15-2011, 07:02 PM

I don't see how you can report the offender without reporting Friend #2.

How about trying this approach first? Everyone (including Bob, Friend #1 and Friend #2) agree not to make gay jokes anymore at work so that the people who are really anti-gay can't use this as an excuse to join in and make them also.

The offender may not risk being the first to make an anti-gay joke in the future. But if he does, there are ways to play it so he ends up feeling like an idiot.

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Suggest to your boss that some sexual harrasment training would be helpful?

HR wants to know about this stuff. Be careful because HR is the management's tool.

many workplaces require you to sign the document that you have received sexual harassment training and that you passed it.

I would prefer that coworkers handle it among themselves because it's a complex atmosphere where people work together everyday and things can get awkward to the point where you felt you're forced to quit.

but they should step it up to their boss if situation has not been resolved.

**sallylou** · 09-15-2011, 07:54 PM

In big corporations they have official training and forms to sign. Don't know how big this workplace is.

The fact that you had a female in the conversation complicates things.

Since your friend is asking for advice, the best repsonse may be "I trust your judgment."

**Daredevel7** · 09-15-2011, 09:30 PM

For more information, it's a big workplace and we routinely take training for sexual/workplace harrassment. Hell, there's even a big notice on the door to the breakroom that talks about Workplace Harrassment/Violence.

So I am PRETTY sure training is pointless.

Now, I brought up to "Bob" the idea of talking to the offender directly. Bob believes that it won't make a difference since Bob has no "power" over him, only our boss. Knowing the offender somewhat personally through a close friend, he is very anti-gay. So I know he won't change his ways, only that he MAY stop doing it to Bob ONLY. However, if the boss tells him "Look, there's been complaints...." then he'd stop doing it to everyone... hopefully.

Here's the other thing.. I have a strong feeling that if Bob brings it up to the offender directly, the offender will be like "Um... okaaayyyy. It was just a joke, man... Lighten up." and sort of not taking it seriously. Which means Bob has only 2 choices, let it go, or threaten him with some sort of action and, to be honest, the action isn't even THAT serious in the first place to warrant a "threat"......

It's really amazing how the little things do make a big difference. A little flirt here ("Oh Im just being harmless! Its not sexual harrassment!"), a little racist/gay joke there ("It's just a little joke! I dont hate Mexicans!"). One can get away with so many things at work, really.

**sallylou** · 09-15-2011, 09:37 PM

No, sounds like training is already covered. Why can't people just be professional at work? So annoying to have to deal with awkward situations.

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

For more information, it's a big workplace and we routinely take training for sexual/workplace harrassment. Hell, there's even a big notice on the door to the breakroom that talks about Workplace Harrassment/Violence.

So I am PRETTY sure training is pointless.

Now, I brought up to "Bob" the idea of talking to the offender directly. Bob believes that it won't make a difference since Bob has no "power" over him, only our boss. Knowing the offender somewhat personally through a close friend, he is very anti-gay. So I know he won't change his ways, only that he MAY stop doing it to Bob ONLY. However, if the boss tells him "Look, there's been complaints...." then he'd stop doing it to everyone... hopefully.

Here's the other thing.. I have a strong feeling that if Bob brings it up to the offender directly, the offender will be like "Um... okaaayyyy. It was just a joke, man... Lighten up." and sort of not taking it seriously. Which means Bob has only 2 choices, let it go, or threaten him with some sort of action and, to be honest, the action isn't even THAT serious in the first place to warrant a "threat"......

It's really amazing how the little things do make a big difference. A little flirt here ("Oh Im just being harmless! Its not sexual harrassment!"), a little racist/gay joke there ("It's just a little joke! I dont hate Mexicans!"). One can get away with so many things at work, really.

"Look... I would prefer that you keep it to yourself because your anti-gay remarks make me uncomfortable. I don't like it. I don't want to be an ass and bring it up to my boss, alright?"

**Daredevel7** · 09-15-2011, 09:44 PM

Seriously!!! I understand if two coworkers became friends and things get a little "looser" in terms of joking around, etc. I became good friends with three of my coworkers and we say somewhat racist things, but not against others, only ourselves because we make fun of the stereotype of our own races/ethnicities (One Hispanic, one Indian, one Chinese and one White). But we never do it in front of others at work.

I don't even know why the hell the guy used the word queer. Who the hell says queer?!

**Daredevel7** · 09-15-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

"Look... I would prefer that you keep it to yourself because your anti-gay remarks make me uncomfortable. I don't like it. I don't want to be an ass and bring it up to my boss, alright?"

I like that. Why don't you be Bob's stand in and tell the offender off?

Btw... you've met "Bob".

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I like that. Why don't you be Bob's stand in and tell the offender off?

If I can tell my boss that his joke was inappropriate and racist... I've got this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Btw... you've met "Bob".

ah that "Bob".... I bet he did that "forced" awkward laugh

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I don't even know why the hell the guy used the word queer. Who the hell says queer?!

I did.

oh wait.... sorry - not queer.... I was thinking of queef.

**Daredevel7** · 09-15-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ah that "Bob".... I bet he did that "forced" awkward laugh

Totally... he even reenacted it for me...

Tousi · 09-15-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

No, sounds like training is already covered. Why can't people just be professional at work? So annoying to have to deal with awkward situations.

Maybe they aren't given enough work to keep them occupied.

**Jiro** · 09-15-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Totally... he even reenacted it for me...

*awkward laugh*

jillio · 09-15-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

For more information, it's a big workplace and we routinely take training for sexual/workplace harrassment. Hell, there's even a big notice on the door to the breakroom that talks about Workplace Harrassment/Violence.

So I am PRETTY sure training is pointless.

Now, I brought up to "Bob" the idea of talking to the offender directly. Bob believes that it won't make a difference since Bob has no "power" over him, only our boss. Knowing the offender somewhat personally through a close friend, he is very anti-gay. So I know he won't change his ways, only that he MAY stop doing it to Bob ONLY. However, if the boss tells him "Look, there's been complaints...." then he'd stop doing it to everyone... hopefully.

Here's the other thing.. I have a strong feeling that if Bob brings it up to the offender directly, the offender will be like "Um... okaaayyyy. It was just a joke, man... Lighten up." and sort of not taking it seriously. Which means Bob has only 2 choices, let it go, or threaten him with some sort of action and, to be honest, the action isn't even THAT serious in the first place to warrant a "threat"......

It's really amazing how the little things do make a big difference. A little flirt here ("Oh Im just being harmless! Its not sexual harrassment!"), a little racist/gay joke there ("It's just a little joke! I dont hate Mexicans!"). One can get away with so many things at work, really.

Personally, I would report it, but whether or not you personally feel it is worth it is another thing. Re: your boss' religious beliefs...they can only be used to determine what HE believes is offensive and innappropriate to HIM, not to ANYONE ELSE. And certainly not regarding what is appropriate in the work place. Unless of course, you have recently changed work places and are employed in a church.

Isms are innappropriate and unnacceptable no matter how they are expressed. We may not be able to change some people's attitudes about these things, but neither do we have to sanction it by ignoring it.

***naisho*** · 09-15-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Seriously!!! I understand if two coworkers became friends and things get a little "looser" in terms of joking around, etc. I became good friends with three of my coworkers and we say somewhat racist things, but not against others, only ourselves because we make fun of the stereotype of our own races/ethnicities (One Hispanic, one Indian, one Chinese and one White). But we never do it in front of others at work.

I don't even know why the hell the guy used the word queer. Who the hell says queer?!

put out a $20 hit on mr. cool.

I'm gonna take a stab at it and predict that he is trolling on some forum or online community someplace. I've noticed of the people with witty/"modern day pwning" remarks are regulars of the internet. $5 says mr. cool hangs out someplace where he gets his jollies online.

**Daredevel7** · 09-16-2011, 07:32 AM

Tousi and Naisho... You guys may be onto something. He gets paid quite a lot but doesn't even really do anything. It's one thing if you are the type of guy who just goes to meetings all day and don't do real work, and another thing if you just sit at your desk all day looking at tractor pictures or posting in tractor forums... And maybe trolling in other forums....

I should get the boss to give him something to do....

DeafCaroline · 09-16-2011, 09:17 AM

I knew someone who used to make a lot of "gay" jokes until I told him that the more guys make anti-gay jokes, the more women think they're secretly gay.

That kinda made him shut up.

**Daredevel7** · 09-16-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

I knew someone who used to make a lot of "gay" jokes until I told him that the more guys make anti-gay jokes, the more women think they're secretly gay.

That kinda made him shut up.

That actually may work on the offender...... he is very homophobic.

DeafCaroline · 09-16-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

That actually may work on the offender...... he is very homophobic.

If you give him a knowing look like "your secret is safe with me" every time he makes a gay joke, have fun watching his reaction

***VamPyroX*** · 09-16-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

"Bro-dak?" I've never even heard the phrase.

For me, just speaking generally, if I'm offended by something, I'd take it up with the individual first. After that, if the individual continues to be offensive, take it up with the relevant authorities if necessary.

That sounds like an appropriate approach.

**Beowulf** · 09-16-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

I knew someone who used to make a lot of "gay" jokes until I told him that the more guys make anti-gay jokes, the more women think they're secretly gay.

That kinda made him shut up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

If you give him a knowing look like "your secret is safe with me" every time he makes a gay joke, have fun watching his reaction

My workers never make gay jokes.

**Cheetah** · 09-18-2011, 02:58 PM

Basically it's not sexual harassment until some one complains. Obvilously there are things that are clearly sexual harassment but I don't think this is. It is appropriate to approach the person and inform them that they are offended by the comments. If it continues, go to your boss and inform that you have already talked with the person and they persist. If it continues, go to HR and inform them of the situation, times, dates and details of what was said (as accurately as possible). If HR does their job, they will investigate, interview everyone. Make suggestions for more training, for management to be more vigilant, even to terminating employment.

I guess this is one benefit of being employed by such a large company (over 100,000 employees around the world). I have in the past make complaints that went up the chain like this.

09-15-2011, 12:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	Advice about remarks and jokes in the workplace... Here is the situation: A man in my workplace has made jokes/comments/remarks about gay people. I personally have never heard them. One coworker complained about something he said in regards to gay people last year. Don't remember what he said. Another coworker, call him "Bob," has heard the offender make comments like "Yea he looks like he plays for the other side, if you know what I mean..." Well, another thing happened just now. Bob and his 2 friends were bored waiting for a meeting to start. Bob and friend #1 started texting each other as a joke, even though they were sitting next to each other. Friend #2 said "Aww are you guys having a bro-dak moment?". The offender heard friend #2 and said to Bob and Friend#1, "yea, you guys look like queers." Bob just went "har har..", but he got offended by it. He came to me asking for advice on whether he should tell our boss (who is also the offender's boss). I honestly don't know what to say because it's a blurry line, since Friend #2 did say something kinda gay "bro-dak moment." but she is a good friend of theirs and they joke about things like that. Is it "offensive" enough to make a complaint with the boss? Or wait for another (more serious) incident, which probably would happen anyway. Also, my boss is a religious man..... not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

09-15-2011, 04:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bottesini Joe's Friend Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: With Owl Sock Posts: 37,523 Blog Entries: 1	I would probably be careful about taking it up with the guy making the remarks. You don't want to give him any reason to complain about you. Hopefully your boss could be objective about enforcing rules against harassment and not let his religion get in the way. Maybe you could post reminders of what constitutes workplace harassment where the offender is sure to see it? __________________

09-15-2011, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Suggest to your boss that some sexual harrasment training would be helpful? HR wants to know about this stuff. Be careful because HR is the management's tool. __________________

09-15-2011, 06:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Brodak: The perfect time for a picture with only the guys The guys and I all passed out on the couch last night. It was such a brodak moment __________________

09-15-2011, 07:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jazzberry Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New York State Posts: 761 Blog Entries: 2	I don't see how you can report the offender without reporting Friend #2. How about trying this approach first? Everyone (including Bob, Friend #1 and Friend #2) agree not to make gay jokes anymore at work so that the people who are really anti-gay can't use this as an excuse to join in and make them also. The offender may not risk being the first to make an anti-gay joke in the future. But if he does, there are ways to play it so he ends up feeling like an idiot. Beach girl likes this.

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09-15-2011, 01:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	"Bro-dak?" I've never even heard the phrase. For me, just speaking generally, if I'm offended by something, I'd take it up with the individual first. After that, if the individual continues to be offensive, take it up with the relevant authorities if necessary.

09-15-2011, 07:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	In big corporations they have official training and forms to sign. Don't know how big this workplace is. The fact that you had a female in the conversation complicates things. Since your friend is asking for advice, the best repsonse may be "I trust your judgment." __________________

09-15-2011, 09:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	For more information, it's a big workplace and we routinely take training for sexual/workplace harrassment. Hell, there's even a big notice on the door to the breakroom that talks about Workplace Harrassment/Violence. So I am PRETTY sure training is pointless. Now, I brought up to "Bob" the idea of talking to the offender directly. Bob believes that it won't make a difference since Bob has no "power" over him, only our boss. Knowing the offender somewhat personally through a close friend, he is very anti-gay. So I know he won't change his ways, only that he MAY stop doing it to Bob ONLY. However, if the boss tells him "Look, there's been complaints...." then he'd stop doing it to everyone... hopefully. Here's the other thing.. I have a strong feeling that if Bob brings it up to the offender directly, the offender will be like "Um... okaaayyyy. It was just a joke, man... Lighten up." and sort of not taking it seriously. Which means Bob has only 2 choices, let it go, or threaten him with some sort of action and, to be honest, the action isn't even THAT serious in the first place to warrant a "threat"...... It's really amazing how the little things do make a big difference. A little flirt here ("Oh Im just being harmless! Its not sexual harrassment!"), a little racist/gay joke there ("It's just a little joke! I dont hate Mexicans!"). One can get away with so many things at work, really.

09-15-2011, 09:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	No, sounds like training is already covered. Why can't people just be professional at work? So annoying to have to deal with awkward situations. __________________

09-15-2011, 09:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	Seriously!!! I understand if two coworkers became friends and things get a little "looser" in terms of joking around, etc. I became good friends with three of my coworkers and we say somewhat racist things, but not against others, only ourselves because we make fun of the stereotype of our own races/ethnicities (One Hispanic, one Indian, one Chinese and one White). But we never do it in front of others at work. I don't even know why the hell the guy used the word queer. Who the hell says queer?!

09-16-2011, 07:32 AM	#24 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	Tousi and Naisho... You guys may be onto something. He gets paid quite a lot but doesn't even really do anything. It's one thing if you are the type of guy who just goes to meetings all day and don't do real work, and another thing if you just sit at your desk all day looking at tractor pictures or posting in tractor forums... And maybe trolling in other forums.... I should get the boss to give him something to do.... jillio likes this.

09-16-2011, 09:17 AM	#25 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	I knew someone who used to make a lot of "gay" jokes until I told him that the more guys make anti-gay jokes, the more women think they're secretly gay. That kinda made him shut up. rebeccalj, Beach girl and AJWSmith like this.

09-18-2011, 02:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
Cheetah Cheetah Consulting-Closed Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,694	Basically it's not sexual harassment until some one complains. Obvilously there are things that are clearly sexual harassment but I don't think this is. It is appropriate to approach the person and inform them that they are offended by the comments. If it continues, go to your boss and inform that you have already talked with the person and they persist. If it continues, go to HR and inform them of the situation, times, dates and details of what was said (as accurately as possible). If HR does their job, they will investigate, interview everyone. Make suggestions for more training, for management to be more vigilant, even to terminating employment. I guess this is one benefit of being employed by such a large company (over 100,000 employees around the world). I have in the past make complaints that went up the chain like this.

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