Poll: Support For Gay Marriage Growing - Page 2

**Foxrac** · 03-03-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I have to say I agree with Reba about one thing. It's merely a poll. Now, here's where I disagree with Reba...

I would LOVE to see these opinions translated into more states adopting a gay marriage law. Right now, only 5 states have such a law. Obviously, it'd be cool if all 50 states had a gay marriage law on the books, but for the time being, I'll settle for 20 states.

Do you hear that Maryland will have gay marriage soon? I do know DC has one too.

Oceanbreeze · 03-03-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Do you hear that Maryland will have gay marriage soon? I do know DC has one too.

DC does, I think. I didn't know Maryland was about to pass such a law. That would me very happy considering I was born and raised in MD.

**Foxrac** · 03-03-2011, 11:21 PM

nevermind - double post

**Foxrac** · 03-03-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

DC does, I think. I didn't know Maryland was about to pass such a law. That would me very happy considering I was born and raised in MD.

Yup, state senate in Maryland passed the gay marriage bill so it is goes to house to vote. Maryland governor said that they will support to sign the bill after pass from house.
Maryland Senate OKs bill on gay marriage - Washington Times

souggy · 03-03-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It has nothing to do with religious denominations.

Even if people don't accept God's morality, it still exists.

Like the law of gravity. Even if people don't believe in it, it still exists.

Even if people don't accept Shiva's will, it still exists. Like gravity. Even if people don't believe in it, it still exists.

**shel90** · 03-04-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Why not? Do we all have to have the same beliefs and opinions?

You really believe marriage has no effect on people other than the couple? If that's the case, then why do homosexual people want it?

It didn't "become" not the right thing. It has never been the morally right thing to do.

Just because others don't see it that way doesn't mean I can't speak up.

After all, the OP was about a poll. Polls are about more than one opinion.

Really? You had to ask that?

**shel90** · 03-04-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

God establishes moral rightness for all people, past, present and future, all over the world. He is the ultimate Judge.

Again, your own view about God. Not everyone believes in God.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Again, your own view about God. Not everyone believes in God.

That doesn't effect His existence or what is right or wrong. It only effects people's behavior and the consequences of their behavior.

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 07:41 AM

I am very happy to see the support for gay marriage is growing and I see it everywhere around me (even deep in the Bible Belt!).

I am not a religious person but I try to see things from a religious standpoint. Now, if I truly believed in the Bible, of course, I'd be opposed to gay marriage. While it is true that there are things in the Bible that could be interpreted that certain immoral things are perfectly fine (such as slavery as deafdyke said) or vice versa, it is too obvious that the Bible looks down on homosexuality. (Although I am sure certain people will find Bible passages that imply that homosexuality is okay.) So I can't blame Reba for worrying that we may be doing something "immoral". I believe she is still a very good Christian because her words come from a place of being worried and warning people (for "their own good") due to her strong beliefs, but I doubt she ever would attack or put down gay people.

I do hope that one day, Reba will see the light and realize why this is necessary. Many Christians originally oppose to it, but as they meet more people and personally get to know people, they start changing their minds. There is a good reason for it.

Personally, I think that marriage (which is originally a religious institution) should never have been connected to the government. It became a weird hybrid institution of religion AND the government. But since that mistake has been made.... this is why this is happening. If marriage had been purely a religious ceremony and civil unions or whatever were the NORM for couples (even straight) living together for tax/benefit purposes, then this would be less complicated. Imagine getting some weird certification from the government if you had been baptized! And the nation sees you differently if you have or didn't have that certification. That's how I feel about marriage.

souggy · 03-04-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Personally, I think that marriage (which is originally a religious institution) should never have been connected to the government. It became a weird hybrid institution of religion AND the government. But since that mistake has been made.... this is why this is happening. If marriage had been purely a religious ceremony and civil unions or whatever were the NORM for couples (even straight) living together for tax/benefit purposes, then this would be less complicated. Imagine getting some weird certification from the government if you had been baptized! And the nation sees you differently if you have or didn't have that certification. That's how I feel about marriage.

Er...

Might want to read up on the different type of marriages around the world and the socio-economic systems they're tied to.

souggy · 03-04-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That doesn't effect His existence or what is right or wrong. It only effects people's behavior and the consequences of their behavior.

"Affects" or "effects"? Honestly, no one knows who is right until the day we die and meet our maker(s.) Kind of remind me of a joke. A Hindu co-worker began asking the company employees about their religious aflilations. He was starting to get on everyone's nerve.

"Oh, you believe in God? You're a Hindu!"
"Oh, you believe in Allah? You're a Hindu!"
"Ah, so you believe in reincarnation. You're a Hindu!"
"Oh, you don't believe in a deity? You're a Hindu!"
"Oh, you're not sure if there is a supernatural power? You're a Hindu!"

See... in Hinduism, it's not really one religion. It's not even a religion at all; rather, it's a grouping of people in the British Empire to separate the Europeans and from the various type of religions found in India. But over time, "Hindu" became a nationalistic word to unify people of different religions to separate them from the Pakistanis.

The point of the joke is that everyone is on the same mountain, trying to reach the same peak, but everyone is on a different path. There is no right or wrong because no one knows which is the right path to take, but everyone believe their path is the only path to take.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

"Affects" or "effects"?

Take your pick.

Quote:

Honestly, no one knows who is right until the day we die and meet our maker(s.)...

... everyone is on the same mountain, trying to reach the same peak, but everyone is on a different path. There is no right or wrong because no one knows which is the right path to take, but everyone believe their path is the only path to take.

Obviously, they can't all be right because they would cancel each other out.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

... I doubt she ever would attack or put down gay people.

Correct.

Quote:

I do hope that one day, Reba will see the light...

I hope the same for you.

Quote:

Many Christians originally oppose to it, but as they meet more people and personally get to know people, they start changing their minds. There is a good reason for it.

Believe me, I meet and personally get to know many diverse people.

Quote:

Personally, I think that marriage (which is originally a religious institution) should never have been connected to the government.

I would be fine with that also. However, since marriage has become regulated by governments, especially in America, that's what we have to deal with.

Quote:

Imagine getting some weird certification from the government if you had been baptized!

There are other nations that do control religions. They determine which churches are licensed, and what they are allowed to practice.

Quote:

And the nation sees you differently if you have or didn't have that certification. That's how I feel about marriage.

You think the nation sees married people differently in what way? (Or am I misunderstanding your analogy?)

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Correct.
I hope the same for you.

Great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I would be fine with that also. However, since marriage has become regulated by governments, especially in America, that's what we have to deal with.

OOhhhhhh we agree on something!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There are other nations that do control religions. They determine which churches are licensed, and what they are allowed to practice.

Yes, is that what America stands for? Or SHOULD stand for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You think the nation sees married people differently in what way? (Or am I misunderstanding your analogy?)

I admit that was somewhat of a bad analogy, but I was just trying to make a point. In my analogy, if someone gets baptized, they get a baptism certification. Let''s say that for some reason, people get "benefits" just for having a baptism certification. Hence, the nation treats them differently just because they have a certification.

That is what marriage is like to me, people get benefits just for being married? To me, marriage is ceremonial, just like baptism, that is tied into someone's beliefs/tradition. What the heck does marriage have anything to do with benefits?

I am not saying that benefits are bad, but someone has to really examine what the heck the benefits REALLY are for? Married people? OR simply couples living together, couples raising kids together? So a couple for life doesn't "deserve" the benefits as much as a married couple? Says the government which is supposed to be "free from religion"?

Perhaps later tonight I will think more straight. I am so tired today. Not enough coffee....

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Er...

Might want to read up on the different type of marriages around the world and the socio-economic systems they're tied to.

That still has nothing to do with the government itself. Seems like you are just talking about traditions TIED into the marriage ceremonies.

Besides, we are talking about here America. Here, marriage is viewed from a religious standpoint. I think of marriage sorta like X-mas. It started off as a celebration of the birth of Jesus, but now it's more about spending time with the family, exchanging gifts, etc etc. Marriage as WE, Americans, know it started off as a religious institution. Think about the times just before the government stepped in and started doing marriage certifications. I can provide links later.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I admit that was somewhat of a bad analogy, but I was just trying to make a point. In my analogy, if someone gets baptized, they get a baptism certification. Let''s say that for some reason, people get "benefits" just for having a baptism certification. Hence, the nation treats them differently just because they have a certification.

Heh, heh. No national benefits for baptism. Not even a free cup of coffee for showing a certificate.

Quote:

That is what marriage is like to me, people get benefits just for being married? To me, marriage is ceremonial, just like baptism, that is tied into someone's beliefs/tradition. What the heck does marriage have anything to do with benefits?

I am not saying that benefits are bad, but someone has to really examine what the heck the benefits REALLY are for? Married people? OR simply couples living together, couples raising kids together? So a couple for life doesn't "deserve" the benefits as much as a married couple? Says the government which is supposed to be "free from religion"?

In America, there are some financial benefits to marriage such as discount memberships to certain organizations but usually not enough to get excited about. It's like the senior discounts--they're nice to have but they're not deal breakers. They're more like gimmicks to attract business.

As far as government benefits, some of those could be modified to fit relationship situations without requiring marriage.

I guess you could include divorce settlements and pre-nups as "benefits."

Quote:

Perhaps later tonight I will think more straight. I am so tired today. Not enough coffee....

Coffee doesn't help me; I just get jittery (not good for an interpreter). These days, I take naps, especially between assignments, in my car.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 02:45 PM

Caveat: I don't know the source of this link or its credibility and I'm not endorsing it but it does bring up some interesting points to think about.

marriage license

Re: Posts debating who should be in charge of marriages, the state or the church.

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Heh, heh. No national benefits for baptism. Not even a free cup of coffee for showing a certificate.

In America, there are some financial benefits to marriage such as discount memberships to certain organizations but usually not enough to get excited about. It's like the senior discounts--they're nice to have but they're not deal breakers. They're more like gimmicks to attract business.

As far as government benefits, some of those could be modified to fit relationship situations without requiring marriage.

I guess you could include divorce settlements and pre-nups as "benefits."

Coffee doesn't help me; I just get jittery (not good for an interpreter). These days, I take naps, especially between assignments, in my car.

If the government won't recognize gay marriage, then I say do away with ALL marriage certifications from the government. I believe that the government should NOT recognize marriage at all. Only churches can give a marriage certificate (that's how it all started anyway!). I bet some churches would be cool with giving a marriage certification to gay couples.

See how smart Thomas Jefferson was when he say separation of church and state?! Too bad that marriage was overlooked.

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Caveat: I don't know the source of this link or its credibility and I'm not endorsing it but it does bring up some interesting points to think about.

marriage license

Re: Posts debating who should be in charge of marriages, the state or the church.

That was exactly what I was talking about in my last post!!

The reason why I am for gay marriage is because I am pretty sure that the government will not "STOP" recognizing marriages, so I personally do not think it is fair. But I am all for doing away with marriages and leaving it up to the church or whatever.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

If the government won't recognize gay marriage, then I say do away with ALL marriage certifications from the government. I believe that the government should NOT recognize marriage at all. Only churches can give a marriage certificate (that's how it all started anyway!). I bet some churches would be cool with giving a marriage certification to gay couples.

A marriage license is not the same as a marriage certificate.

Quote:

What Makes Our Marriage Legal?

Every state in the United States requires a license to legalize Marriage. You cannot get married without it. We'll tell you how to get that license in a minute. But follow the way this works...So you have your license. Now you get married. After the ceremony, both spouses and the Officiant sign the marriage license (some states require a witness). The Officiant then files for a certified copy of the marriage license and a marriage certificate. Often we get email asking the difference between the Marriage License and a Marriage Certificate. The marriage certificate is more of a keepsake. You will receive an original of both the certified license and the marriage certificate. This can take anywhere from to two weeks to a months time. Ask for a few extra copies of the marriage license (there is an extra fee) because whomever decides to change his/her name, must provide an original copy for official name changes with your Social Security and Driver's license.

However, obtaining the Marriage License is the responsibility of the bride and groom to-be. Typically, (and we emphasize typically because rules vary from state to state and even county to county) both parties about to marry need to sign the application in person. Where do you go?...to your local town/city clerk's office or sometimes you must file in the county in which you plan to marry. It's always a good idea to call ahead of time to find out the exact requirements. For example, proof of identity is always a requirement, but this may be your driver's license or your birth certificate. Sometimes there is a waiting period after applying and before receiving your license and sometimes there is a waiting period after receiving your license...can get a little tricky. And those of you who can't wait to tie the knot, there's plenty of states that require no waiting at all, not to mention, no blood test.

For general marriage license requirements we've provided you with a state by state chart. This is for general information only. Remember, this is no substitute for calling your town/city/county clerk's office. Find out the specifics and don't wait until the last minute. One last thing...you'll most likely have to pay the license fee in cash. You're better off not having to deal with waiting for your check to clear. Most don't accept personal checks anyway.

United States Marriage Requirements - What makes your marriage legal - The only online wedding manual you'll ever need from foreverwed.com

United States Marriage Requirements - State by State marriage requirements and fees - The only online wedding manual you'll ever need from foreverwed.com

**Daredevel7** · 03-04-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

A marriage license is not the same as a marriage certificate.

United States Marriage Requirements - What makes your marriage legal - The only online wedding manual you'll ever need from foreverwed.com

United States Marriage Requirements - State by State marriage requirements and fees - The only online wedding manual you'll ever need from foreverwed.com

My bad. Take all of my posts and mentally replace "certificate" with "license".

License is what I meant. Thanks for the correction.

BTW, got my coffee now. I am more alert and awake now.

souggy · 03-04-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Take your pick.

Obviously, they can't all be right because they would cancel each other out.

I just view it like rock-climbing. There's no wrong starting point, and there's no wrong place to be, but if you're stuck-- either you have to be stubborn and persist trying to overcome the obstacle, or one would have to make an adjustment to get around the obstacle; but eventually we all reach the top. Some have it easy, others seem to strive for making things as hard as possible for themselves.

Gay marriage is one of those things: is it a dangerous obstacle, or is it a miraculous hold which could save someone's life disguised as a slippy slope?

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

I just view it like rock-climbing. There's no wrong starting point, and there's no wrong place to be, but if you're stuck-- either you have to be stubborn and persist trying to overcome the obstacle, or one would have to make an adjustment to get around the obstacle; but eventually we all reach the top. Some have it easy, others seem to strive for making things as hard as possible for themselves.

Each religion that says it's the only way can't be right because if there is only one way, then they would all be canceled out except that one, right? Yet, if every way was right, then that would cancel out all the exclusive ways. See? They cancel each other out.

If there is only one way (which I believe), then that cancels out all the other ways.

I don't view salvation as a rock climb; I view it as the Rock. There's no need to struggle climbing the Rock. The Rock is simply there to be accepted.

Quote:

Gay marriage is one of those things: is it a dangerous obstacle, or is it a miraculous hold which could save someone's life disguised as a slippy slope?

Do you want me to answer, or is that a rhetorical question?

souggy · 03-04-2011, 04:51 PM

Wirelessly posted

So... if each routes are independent of another, people who are born into a religion are more righteous than those who were baptized later on, or converted later on in life? If not, then the path is still right-- just merely converged into a different one on the same trail.

Regarding the question: it's really just a judgement call. You can either choose to use it, and risk your life, or you can choose to use a different hold. That's all.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

So... if each routes are independent of another, people who are born into a religion are more righteous than those who were baptized later on, or converted later on in life?

I will explain only my experience so as not to get into a "religions" debate.

At my natural birth, I was born a natural sinner. I was not righteous. At age 28 years, I made the conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior. It was a precise one-time event in time. (Some people make that decision younger, some older.) A couple weeks later, I was baptized by full immersion in my church as a public profession of my faith in Jesus. My baptism did not save or convert me. It was an act of obedience in following the example set by Jesus.

**shel90** · 03-04-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That doesn't effect His existence or what is right or wrong. It only effects people's behavior and the consequences of their behavior.

I am lost because I am not religous so I am not understanding this statement. It could be due to me having a different view.

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I am lost because I am not religous so I am not understanding this statement. It could be due to me having a different view.

"That doesn't effect His existence or what is right or wrong. It only effects people's behavior and the consequences of their behavior."

It means that God doesn't depend on people believing in Him in order for Him to exist. God exists whether or not people believe in Him.

It also means that whether or not people believe certain actions are wrong, God will still judge those actions by His standards, not man's standards.

Whether or not people believe their actions are wrong, the consequences will be the same.

It's the same when someone breaks a law. Even if the law breaker doesn't see anything wrong with his actions, he'll still get arrested and face the judge. The law exists, and the police enforce it, whether or not the law breaker believes that his actions are wrong.

**Foxrac** · 03-04-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Heh, heh. No national benefits for baptism. Not even a free cup of coffee for showing a certificate.

In America, there are some financial benefits to marriage such as discount memberships to certain organizations but usually not enough to get excited about. It's like the senior discounts--they're nice to have but they're not deal breakers. They're more like gimmicks to attract business.

As far as government benefits, some of those could be modified to fit relationship situations without requiring marriage.

I guess you could include divorce settlements and pre-nups as "benefits."

Coffee doesn't help me; I just get jittery (not good for an interpreter). These days, I take naps, especially between assignments, in my car.

Do you support jointly tax bracket rate for everyone, even if they are unmarried?

Not bad idea, there were reason that government got in marriage business to control on interracial marriage in 1800's until 1960's so I feel like that state issued marriage is moot now. I'm for church or private marriage company to offer marriage for anyone.

If government issued marriage isn't exist so I'm wonder about where atheists can obtain marriage outside of church?

**Reba** · 03-04-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Do you support jointly tax bracket rate for everyone, even if they are unmarried?

Ha, ha, you know better.

I'm for the abolition of the IRS and Federal income tax. I support the Fair Tax (consumption tax).

whatdidyousay! · 03-04-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Of course, the popularity and the rightness of a thing aren't necessarily the same thing.

We know from history that some things that were acceptable or even popular weren't morally right.

At one time a white person could not marry a black person ,it was against the law, people believed it to be morally wrong! There is nothing morally wrong with marrying someone you love no matter what race or sex they're!
Killing people for marrying out side of their race or the same sex is morally
WRONG!! It is time to stop judging people for who they fall in love with, the only thing that matter is that they're happy . I had cops harass me for dating Black men. And it felt very morally wrong to me! Too many people been beaten up or killed for being gay and this is morally wrong!

03-03-2011, 11:21 PM	#33 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,595	nevermind - double post __________________ In Moto We Trust

03-04-2011, 04:51 PM	#54 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	Wirelessly posted So... if each routes are independent of another, people who are born into a religion are more righteous than those who were baptized later on, or converted later on in life? If not, then the path is still right-- just merely converged into a different one on the same trail. Regarding the question: it's really just a judgement call. You can either choose to use it, and risk your life, or you can choose to use a different hold. That's all. __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman Last edited by souggy; 03-04-2011 at 04:53 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

03-04-2011, 07:41 AM	#39 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I am very happy to see the support for gay marriage is growing and I see it everywhere around me (even deep in the Bible Belt!). I am not a religious person but I try to see things from a religious standpoint. Now, if I truly believed in the Bible, of course, I'd be opposed to gay marriage. While it is true that there are things in the Bible that could be interpreted that certain immoral things are perfectly fine (such as slavery as deafdyke said) or vice versa, it is too obvious that the Bible looks down on homosexuality. (Although I am sure certain people will find Bible passages that imply that homosexuality is okay.) So I can't blame Reba for worrying that we may be doing something "immoral". I believe she is still a very good Christian because her words come from a place of being worried and warning people (for "their own good") due to her strong beliefs, but I doubt she ever would attack or put down gay people. I do hope that one day, Reba will see the light and realize why this is necessary. Many Christians originally oppose to it, but as they meet more people and personally get to know people, they start changing their minds. There is a good reason for it. Personally, I think that marriage (which is originally a religious institution) should never have been connected to the government. It became a weird hybrid institution of religion AND the government. But since that mistake has been made.... this is why this is happening. If marriage had been purely a religious ceremony and civil unions or whatever were the NORM for couples (even straight) living together for tax/benefit purposes, then this would be less complicated. Imagine getting some weird certification from the government if you had been baptized! And the nation sees you differently if you have or didn't have that certification. That's how I feel about marriage.

03-04-2011, 02:45 PM	#47 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,180	Caveat: I don't know the source of this link or its credibility and I'm not endorsing it but it does bring up some interesting points to think about. marriage license Re: Posts debating who should be in charge of marriages, the state or the church.