Gay & Lesbian Marriage/Civil Union

Yes, I'm at it again. You cannot refer to the Bible, AD rules. Are ye for or against?

My opinion:
I think marriage of gays and lesbians should be knocked totally out of the our universe.

Civil unions are fine. We're being discriminated against and my guess is the very core of this discrimination lies in money. Whoever predeceases the other is not allowed to collect SS or other benefits. But that's why I fought for and we received an imbalanced domestic partnership benefit (dp) at various companies. The problem there was I was taxed the actual value of the health insurance plan, so dp benefits were fine and I was xxxx. That does not happen to those who are married.

We are no different from anyone else. Ya look at us and we're two women with a dog who's adorable. We both worked our entire life and others do. We also don't look any different. It's only due to my eyesight and age that an 8 year old kid beats me in basketball.

We contributed and continue to contribute to society as you all do. My partner still works helping people. We are entitled to the same rights. But we don't have them. Because we are not legally civil unioned (okay, I made that up), we had to pay a lawyer a lot of money to set up a trust. At our house closing in NY, that lawyer asked how much we were charged for it and he laughed and said he would get in that business. It was an auto document - fill in key words and let it rip.

We're also now in the South in a progressive area in a backward state. But we're careful. When I dated guys and married one, we could hold hands and it wasn't a problem. Doing that here could get us killed. So, by allowing civil unions it "normalizes" the picture and could speed up the government getting more taxes from us. But it would stop us from having to pay extra money for a trust.

I'm going back to 2008 and my close encounter with the death kind. The closest hospital was 5 miles away. It was a Catholic Hospital and my partner was concerned about the discrimination but there wasn't any. She presented my Living Will, which was kindly ignored. She also told them I was deaf and it was ignored. But she was treated like any other spouse would be and had the authority as any other person stated in a Living Will to "off me" but chose not to or let me live and ignore what I had written and it was respected. As I write a lot of this with jest, she could've been legally ignored.

How is this related to allowing civil unions? Again, when you begin to be accepted by just a few and you are able to be who you are, it's catchy and acceptance spreads. Being accepted in the hospital was good, thank god.

Since we live in NC where marriage is not legal (that's not my idea of what to call it), it's too confusing to go somewhere and marry. I ran it by my tax accountant.

I just want to live my life with all the same rights as everyone else has.

Yes, expressing any opinion about this issue that is not in "lock-step" with leftist liberals, is pretty much a taboo here in Alldeaf.

Don't be surprised when the mock outrage gets really loud. Oh, yeah, and when you are called names.

Steinhauer said:

Yes, expressing any opinion about this issue that is not in "lock-step" with leftist liberals, is pretty much a taboo here in Alldeaf.

Don't be surprised when the mock outrage gets really loud. Oh, yeah, and when you are called names.

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Oh wow, you use political language - "leftist liberals" so that invoked this thread into political discussion.

I am assuming that the topic of gay marriage is political in nature

I support gay marriage because I believe in marriage equality for all people, including heterosexual and homosexual. The government sanctioned marriage should be neutral, not favor heterosexual only or homosexual only. Marriage is better than civil unions because of full federal rights and you can file tax jointly, so tax purpose is major reason that I support gay marriage because gay couples raised the children and they are more likely to live under poverty due to different tax code between individual and jointly, so that was before when Section 3 of DOMA got struck down by US Supreme Court, so married gay couples can file tax jointly to get same tax break as married couples.

I'm proud to be LGBT and disability advocate.

Steinhauer said:

I am assuming that the topic of gay marriage is political in nature

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No worse than you used "leftist liberals" that trigger thread to get locked up or move to political/war section.

Foxrac said:

I support gay marriage because I believe in marriage equality for all people, including heterosexual and homosexual. The government sanctioned marriage should be neutral, not favor heterosexual only or homosexual only. Marriage is better than civil unions because of full federal rights and you can file tax jointly, so tax purpose is major reason that I support gay marriage because gay couples raised the children and they are more likely to live under poverty due to different tax code between individual and jointly, so that was before when Section 3 of DOMA got struck down by US Supreme Court, so married gay couples can file tax jointly to get same tax break as married couples.

I'm proud to be LGBT and disability advocate.

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So, you are a political activist?

Steinhauer said:

So, you are a political activist?

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Why are you ask this question?

both, heterosexual and gay marriage should be the same.. no big deal!!

I, for one, fail to see how they are the same thing. Marriage is between one man and one woman, period. There are no "alternative" definitions of marriage.

I do not know what you are talking about the same thing. LOVE is what couple to love each other. That is what it is all about.

Well, my wife and I got "married". It was an exchange between our parents. Her father gave her away at the altar. We now both have a son, we produced our son together. He is our biological son. My parents became his grandparents, my wife's grandparents became his grandparents. My brother and sisters became his uncle and aunts (and so did their spouses). My wife's sister became his aunt, and her husband became his uncle. Me and my wife's brother and sisters' (biological, and in law) children became his cousins.

So no ... I do not see it as the same thing. Very sorry.

Foxrac said:

I support gay marriage because I believe in marriage equality for all people, including heterosexual and homosexual. The government sanctioned marriage should be neutral, not favor heterosexual only or homosexual only. Marriage is better than civil unions because of full federal rights and you can file tax jointly, so tax purpose is major reason that I support gay marriage because gay couples raised the children and they are more likely to live under poverty due to different tax code between individual and jointly, so that was before when Section 3 of DOMA got struck down by US Supreme Court, so married gay couples can file tax jointly to get same tax break as married couples.

I'm proud to be LGBT and disability advocate.

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Foxrac, I had no idea what I was going to step into when I returned from being out for a while after posting this . I didn't know there was a GLBT forum.

I'm against simply calling it marriage (to me it's just a label but you are implying there's a diff. between a civil union and marriage) because it's used politically and consistently as a darn wedge issue and it riles people. My mom and stepfather had what I thought was a civil union. I was with them. They were married in a courthouse. So 50 years ago there was no difference. I got tired of hearing married people saying, "Marriage is for a man and a woman." But who made that one up? Civil union just became less caustic.

Yeah, we can get tax breaks but my partner and I moved to this funny but lovely area called Asheville in a politically-heated state of NC. It wasn't this way when we moved here. Right now, it's too confusing and not worth it to be married federally but not at a state level.

Steinhauer said:

Well, my wife and I got "married". It was an exchange between our parents. Her father gave her away at the altar. We now both have a son, we produced our son together. He is our biological son. My parents became his grandparents, my wife's grandparents became his grandparents. My brother and sisters became his uncle and aunts (and so did their spouses). My wife's sister became his aunt, and her husband became his uncle. Me and my wife's brother and sisters' (biological, and in law) children became his cousins.

So no ... I do not see it as the same thing. Very sorry.

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My partner and I had a union 21.5 years ago in a Methodist Church by the pastor (that's it for religion here !). We used a minorah for my mom and a candle in the shape of a cross for my partner's parents. Mom gave me away at the altar. We made (as my ex-husband and I made) a conscientious decision to not have children on two separate occasions. If you're looking at the ability or inability to procreate as the basis for allowing marriage (and I prefer civil union if they are indeed the same), then you hit on the age old argument that men and women who cannot procreate can't get married.

Foxrac said:

Why are you ask this question?

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Yeah, really, what Foxrac says. We didn't turn this into a political issue. I don't WANT it to be a political issues. But using it as one takes those who don't know better and they buy into it. It's successful. As are other political tactics but it shouldn't be one.

Steinhauer said:

I, for one, fail to see how they are the same thing. Marriage is between one man and one woman, period. There are no "alternative" definitions of marriage.

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I disagree with you, there is definition of marriage that cover same sex couples.

From Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>

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Marriage - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

It won't matter if you don't recognize but our government will recognize.

Steinhauer said:

I, for one, fail to see how they are the same thing. Marriage is between one man and one woman, period. There are no "alternative" definitions of marriage.

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Where doth one get the legal definition of marriage? I take that back. Use this. This more modern:

Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com

To me it's sorta like going back to the era of McCarthy. "Under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance (please don't make me use a source here - it's common knowledge) and In God We Trust was added to our currency during the Civil War.

SBirn said:

Foxrac, I had no idea what I was going to step into when I returned from being out for a while after posting this . I didn't know there was a GLBT forum.

I'm against simply calling it marriage (to me it's just a label but you are implying there's a diff. between a civil union and marriage) because it's used politically and consistently as a darn wedge issue and it riles people. My mom and stepfather had what I thought was a civil union. I was with them. They were married in a courthouse. So 50 years ago there was no difference. I got tired of hearing married people saying, "Marriage is for a man and a woman." But who made that one up? Civil union just became less caustic.

Yeah, we can get tax breaks but my partner and I moved to this funny but lovely area called Asheville in a politically-heated state of NC. It wasn't this way when we moved here. Right now, it's too confusing and not worth it to be married federally but not at a state level.

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There is two different groups for marriage - civil marriage - known as government sanctioned marriage and religious marriage - known as church-sanctioned marriage. The government took control of marriage in 19th Century because of tax purpose, but in southern states, they used to track if there were no interracial marriage like between white and black, but ban on interracial marriage got struck down by US Supreme Court.

Non-religious and atheists can have civil marriage to take advantage of tax and government benefits. There is no federal rights in civil unions so you have opt to be married to take advantage of tax and government benefits. That why I support marriage over civil unions to have full advantage.

Civil unions are just second class citizen because you don't have full advantage, IMO.

SBirn said:

My partner and I had a union 21.5 years ago in a Methodist Church by the pastor (that's it for religion here !). We used a minorah for my mom and a candle in the shape of a cross for my partner's parents. Mom gave me away at the altar. We made (as my ex-husband and I made) a conscientious decision to not have children on two separate occasions. If you're looking at the ability or inability to procreate as the basis for allowing marriage (and I prefer civil union if they are indeed the same), then you hit on the age old argument that men and women who cannot procreate can't get married.

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I would comment but I am not allowed to discuss religion. I wonder what the official stance of the Methodist church is?

As far as regulating marriage (which is in the interest of the state) there are fertile male/female couples prohibited from marrying.

SBirn said:

Yeah, really, what Foxrac says. We didn't turn this into a political issue. I don't WANT it to be a political issues. But using it as one takes those who don't know better and they buy into it. It's successful. As are other political tactics but it shouldn't be one.

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Yes, I was puzzled by Stein's question and I will not surprised if he labeled me as leftist liberal.

If I live in Florida or California, I will join LGBT pride and enroll at LGBT sponsored events. Right now, I sent some letters to state legislators and the congresspeople to encourage them to support LGBT rights.

I'm bisexual, accepted after failed conversion therapy. I don't want to be depressed over treat me as second class citizen.