Oil Heat!!?? Next Winter? - Page 2

radioman · 03-30-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Highlander

Biodiesel is great idea and cheap but not friendly for winter. It will become unstable at around 20F.

just add white bottle of power service or howes to prevent gelling. Most oil furnaces have tanks inside home so its not an issue how cold it is outside.

OR you can add kerosene 50/50 ratio to the diesel to lower thee gelling issues. (old time trick still being used today)

On the side note if you have a oil tank outside, the oil delivery guy will pump in number 1 fuel oil which is kerosene distillate. Number 2 has more btu's which is what most cars/trucks/tractors/heating oil uses but needs to be in warmer environment or gelling treatment added.

radioman · 03-30-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeTahoe

Outdoor heater is AWESOME! Only if you can afford it! I would if I live in country....I can throw any junk/personal mails in there and let it burn it instead of shred it. We just got wood stove, and will hook it up this summer before winter arrives.

Good luck what you decide on!

have fun installing stove! I love mine even though it has a huge appetite for wood.

radioman · 03-30-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

I agree with you about energy content for oil. That is why I am driving diesel.

Here is hard truth, there is almost no difference in cost between oil and Propane.

Want cheapest fuel for heating? Its Natural gas because it is domestic.

have fun with 5 bucks or so a gallon this summer. but then you would be driving your bike instead right ?

**SneakerNet** · 03-30-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

for just 5 gallon of propane? This is not enough to heat 2,000 SF homes during winter time. If it were for Phillips house, she may need around 500 gallons (Maybe more) of propane, which could cost her $2,500 dollars

oh for my 4500 sq ft home, we use the fireplace almost every night.. but this fireplace produce a blasting heat with a little flame. When I went upstairs, I can feel the heat blowing up the stairwell and it distribute to second floors. So normally I set the thermostat at 72 degrees and when using the fireplace, in half hour, the temp jumped to 74 degrees on second floor. So, running the fireplace downstair for about hour and it got too hot..
So, the highest I ever paid for gas is about $41 if I remember correctly and I don't remember how many gallon we use at that time.

diehardbiker · 03-30-2011, 02:24 PM

That would explain why, and why not try without fireplace? You may not like the bill on propane in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SneakerNet

oh for my 4500 sq ft home, we use the fireplace almost every night.. but this fireplace produce a blasting heat with a little flame. When I went upstairs, I can feel the heat blowing up the stairwell and it distribute to second floors. So normally I set the thermostat at 72 degrees and when using the fireplace, in half hour, the temp jumped to 74 degrees on second floor. So, running the fireplace downstair for about hour and it got too hot..
So, the highest I ever paid for gas is about $41 if I remember correctly and I don't remember how many gallon we use at that time.

diehardbiker · 03-30-2011, 02:25 PM

I have not had chance to fix my bike. Hopefully soon as I have the parts needed on my hand. Of course, I may use bike and I really doubt that diesel will hit 5 dollars/gal but it is a possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman

have fun with 5 bucks or so a gallon this summer. but then you would be driving your bike instead right ?

diehardbiker · 03-30-2011, 02:30 PM

I wouldn't recommend doing this on 2007 or later models as EPA has enforced this. By messing up with kerosene it will damage to engine. I am not sure what kind of damage but it said intensive.

2006 or earlier, this won't be problem. I avoided 2007 or later model and got 2006. So I won't have to worry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman

OR you can add kerosene 50/50 ratio to the diesel to lower thee gelling issues. (old time trick still being used today)

On the side note if you have a oil tank outside, the oil delivery guy will pump in number 1 fuel oil which is kerosene distillate. Number 2 has more btu's which is what most cars/trucks/tractors/heating oil uses but needs to be in warmer environment or gelling treatment added.

**SneakerNet** · 03-30-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

That would explain why, and why not try without fireplace? You may not like the bill on propane in the end.

Do you mean, not using the fireplace at all and the propane bill at the end will be zero balance?

diehardbiker · 03-30-2011, 03:43 PM

You will cry when you get the bill if using propane as only source of heat for your house. Seriously, it will be in "Thousands of dollars" for the winter season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SneakerNet

Do you mean, not using the fireplace at all and the propane bill at the end will be zero balance?

AlleyCat · 03-30-2011, 03:45 PM

There's always the option of a woodstove (whether wood/logs or wood pellets). They don't cost more than a few thousand. But accessibility to wood or pellets would be a must. Put it on the lower (not necessarily the lowest if lowest is only storage/unused basement) but lower level that is used, and let heat rise. The cost savings of not running a furnace can be phenomenal. (I say "can be" because I still buy wood pellets so I still shell out the cost for that, but if I had access to free wood if I had a wood stove rather than wood pellets, I would save so many hundreds of dollars a winter.) As it is, I still save quite a bit over running a furnace all the time.

radioman · 03-30-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

I wouldn't recommend doing this on 2007 or later models as EPA has enforced this. By messing up with kerosene it will damage to engine. I am not sure what kind of damage but it said intensive.

2006 or earlier, this won't be problem. I avoided 2007 or later model and got 2006. So I won't have to worry.

we are talking about heating oil for house or fuel for tractors. Who cares about fuel for your truck? Since you HAVE to pay on road tax fuel, getting fresh fuel weekly in winter time will ensure you get the winter blend so it won't gel. So EPA issues for engines is not in this discussion so no worries about kerosene mix for you....

alleycat idea is a good one. a corn or wood pellet stove located on first floor of home is a good idea. IT will be MUCH cheaper, and the oil furance can kick in anytime automatically when pellets runs out when not home to prevent home from freezing. If phillips is raising chickens, and have room to grow lots of corn, then they can grow corn for heat and chicken feed .

diehardbiker · 03-30-2011, 07:15 PM

Yeah, access to woods is a must for woodstove owner otherwise they will pay about a hundred for cord.

I have access to woods, all though... you won't believe this.... craigslist! I found one though CL and the guy wants us to take 10 huge trees. Perfect! along with my huge pu truck. Just perfect!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

There's always the option of a woodstove (whether wood/logs or wood pellets). They don't cost more than a few thousand. But accessibility to wood or pellets would be a must. Put it on the lower (not necessarily the lowest if lowest is only storage/unused basement) but lower level that is used, and let heat rise. The cost savings of not running a furnace can be phenomenal. (I say "can be" because I still buy wood pellets so I still shell out the cost for that, but if I had access to free wood if I had a wood stove rather than wood pellets, I would save so many hundreds of dollars a winter.) As it is, I still save quite a bit over running a furnace all the time.

crossout · 03-30-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

Yes we will buying new wood stove! But...

Wonder if anyone here have boiler outdoor? Pro or Con??

Here..
Central Boiler - Outdoor Wood Furnace for Home Heating

here is the site for wood burning... awesome site Hearth.com | Wood Stoves, Fireplace, Pellet Stoves, Gas Stoves and More - Forums!

**Phillips** · 03-31-2011, 06:21 AM

My neighbor warning me that do not buying a pellet stove because once in a while (with bad weathers) that there was black outrage electric and we cannot use a pellet stove since it is requiring the electric!

**Phillips** · 03-31-2011, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossout

here is the site for wood burning... awesome site Hearth.com | Wood Stoves, Fireplace, Pellet Stoves, Gas Stoves and More - Forums!

Cool!

radioman · 03-31-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

My neighbor warning me that do not buying a pellet stove because once in a while (with bad weathers) that there was black outrage electric and we cannot use a pellet stove since it is requiring the electric!

okay- if power goes out today, your oil furnace is shutting down too. So whats the difference? Most people don't have blackout all the time either. Just once awhile. If you get a portable generator to run a pellet stove,(uses about 135 watts) you wouldn't need a big one. Any 5000 watt genny will work to power lights and pellet stove, fridge.

on the side note:
Consumer Reports says that burning pellets costs roughly 15% less than heating oil and 40% less than electricity, BUT 25% more than natural gas. Of course all of these heating sources (including wood pellets) will fluctuate over time, so these price differences will always be in flux.

AlleyCat · 03-31-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman

okay- if power goes out today, your oil furnace is shutting down too. So whats the difference? Most people don't have blackout all the time either. Just once awhile. If you get a portable generator to run a pellet stove,(uses about 135 watts) you wouldn't need a big one. Any 5000 watt genny will work to power lights and pellet stove, fridge.

on the side note:
Consumer Reports says that burning pellets costs roughly 15% less than heating oil and 40% less than electricity, BUT 25% more than natural gas. Of course all of these heating sources (including wood pellets) will fluctuate over time, so these price differences will always be in flux.

That's exactly my thought. The odds of a blackout/powerout is so slim (unless she lives in an area where that's frequent, but no matter - one or the other (or both) is going to shut down anyway.)

**SneakerNet** · 03-31-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

That's exactly my thought. The odds of a blackout/powerout is so slim (unless she lives in an area where that's frequent, but no matter - one or the other (or both) is going to shut down anyway.)

Not only the storm that can cause black out, it's depend on how the power grid design. Where I live, we have only one power grid that passed along our area. Other places have more than one power grid, if one goes out..then other one will take over as a backup in split second. I get power outage almost every month due to car accidents, tree fall on power lines and such. Last year and half ago, BGE decided to clean up the frequent power outages by either trimming the trees away from the lines, or cut down the trees. Where my back yard, beyond my property line, there was a beautiful trees acted as a divider between properties. Now it's gone, bare, nada. I was really pissed. We now can see the Baltimore-Washington-Annapolis Trail where people walk, hike, horse riding along there and everyone can see my house. Privacy is gone.

**Phillips** · 03-31-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

Yes we will buying new wood stove! But...

Wonder if anyone here have boiler outdoor? Pro or Con??

Here..
Central Boiler - Outdoor Wood Furnace for Home Heating

Radioman and other..

I am apology and not enough explain. I really want to buy a wood stove or outdoor wood stove but NOT pellet stove because of sometime It's outrage!

Now pop my mind that outdoor wood furnace needs electric as well?

AlleyCat · 03-31-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

Radioman and other..

I am apology and not enough explain. I really want to buy a wood stove or outdoor wood stove but NOT pellet stove because of sometime It's outrage!

Now pop my mind that outdoor wood furnace needs electric as well?

You cannot buy a wood stove today that does NOT run on electric.

(You may be able to find one without an electric starter, but if it does not have a blower, you will not heat your house enough with it.) It would be a moot point.

(Sorry, not trying to argue -- just trying to help you understand what you would be buying.

)

radioman · 03-31-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

Radioman and other..

I am apology and not enough explain. I really want to buy a wood stove or outdoor wood stove but NOT pellet stove because of sometime It's outrage!

Now pop my mind that outdoor wood furnace needs electric as well?

yes outdoor MUST have a water pump on the cold side of the water.

I have a few questions-
1. do you have access to lots of mature hardwood trees to cut down every year? you would need 1 foot diameter or larger. you would need to cut about 5-20 trees a year. the amount you cut depends directly on how much you use.
2. do you have a tractor,chainsaw,time to cut them down and have it seasoned on time?
3. do you have the money to install water radiators throughout the house? or are you willing to install warming tubes in the current furnace and have fan running 24/7 on the furnace?

I ask these questions because I grew up on using woodstove for heating house and I currently have a woodstove as well. I have to trailer the wood home from my folks 70 miles and need 10 loads on a 16 ft trailer. gets expensive with gas towing.
As for alley cat comments on electric for wood stoves, not true. you do NOT need electric for all woodstoves. It depends on which on you buy. Problem is the EPA has gotten involved and they want catalytic installed to make stove burn hotter for cleaner exhaust but its a PAIN IN THE BUTT equipment!!! You need to stop in a store that specialize in fireplace/woodstoves. If I were you , I'd try to steer away from the outdoor boiler woodstoves. I'd get a stove that doesnt use electric in the house.

There is a woodstove that might be attractive to you. There is a woodstove that you can install in basement near your furance and connect the heating duct to this stove. United States Stove Co. 1557M Hotblast Furnace - 5095270 | Tractor Supply Company
Yes it uses electric for fans but if the power goes out, you dont need the stove at full blast and the convection flow will still keep floor warm above the stove. Most power outage is only 8 hours or less anyway so who cares about power.

**Phillips** · 03-31-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

You cannot buy a wood stove today that does NOT run on electric.

(You may be able to find one without an electric starter, but if it does not have a blower, you will not heat your house enough with it.) It would be a moot point.

(Sorry, not trying to argue -- just trying to help you understand what you would be buying.

)

No no I am not argue with you! smile

AlleyCat · 03-31-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

No no I am not argue with you! smile

I know.

I was just making sure you were not upset with us for trying to explain.

Bottom line, whether it is a wood stove or a wood pellet stove, both are the same, just use different kind of wood. So issues with power/blower/starter, etc. are the same for either kind. And accessibility to wood logs or pellets.

Hope you find something that works for you!

**Phillips** · 03-31-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman

yes outdoor MUST have a water pump on the cold side of the water.

I have a few questions-
1. do you have access to lots of mature hardwood trees to cut down every year? you would need 1 foot diameter or larger. you would need to cut about 5-20 trees a year. the amount you cut depends directly on how much you use.
I have plenty trees also we are planning buying an acre for retiring home land next year.(near Canada) ..
2. do you have a tractor,chainsaw,time to cut them down and have it seasoned on time?
My hubby working cutting logs in NH... He has own and favor collection siliah saw chains!.. because it is expensive!
3. do you have the money to install water radiators throughout the house? or are you willing to install warming tubes in the current furnace and have fan running 24/7 on the furnace?
My house is brand new and only 4 or 5 years old...???

I ask these questions because I grew up on using woodstove for heating house and I currently have a woodstove as well. I have to trailer the wood home from my folks 70 miles and need 10 loads on a 16 ft trailer. gets expensive with gas towing.
As for alley cat comments on electric for wood stoves, not true. you do NOT need electric for all woodstoves. It depends on which on you buy. Problem is the EPA has gotten involved and they want catalytic installed to make stove burn hotter for cleaner exhaust but its a PAIN IN THE BUTT equipment!!! You need to stop in a store that specialize in fireplace/woodstoves. If I were you , I'd try to steer away from the outdoor boiler woodstoves. I'd get a stove that doesnt use electric in the house.

There is a woodstove that might be attractive to you. There is a woodstove that you can install in basement near your furance and connect the heating duct to this stove. United States Stove Co. 1557M Hotblast Furnace - 5095270 | Tractor Supply CompanyYes it uses electric for fans but if the power goes out, you dont need the stove at full blast and the convection flow will still keep floor warm above the stove. Most power outage is only 8 hours or less anyway so who cares about power.

Yes that s what I was thinking of that.. My brother has his license heat and plumber, so I will ask him about it.. He will do installing it for me!

radioman · 03-31-2011, 11:56 AM

hmm - if your hubby already has access to that kind of wood, he gotta drive home anyways so bring wood home is awesome. I envy you in a way. Slabwood is the cheapest to buy, but if he works there, I am sure he can bring stuff hom for free. I am surprised you haven't done that yet

**Phillips** · 04-11-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman

hmm - if your hubby already has access to that kind of wood, he gotta drive home anyways so bring wood home is awesome. I envy you in a way. Slabwood is the cheapest to buy, but if he works there, I am sure he can bring stuff hom for free. I am surprised you haven't done that yet

Will update... Mostly alike will add wood furnace next to Oil furnace?

I will update it later... Right now I am focusing on my three weeks left to finish college for summertime!

diehardbiker · 04-11-2011, 02:20 PM

Im sorry, this is not true. Of course, this is true ONLY if woodstove has accessory that can be used with blower or fan, That is when you need electricity. But other than that, it can work without electricity.

You might be confused between Wood burning stove and wood pellet stove. Only Wood pellet stove requires electricity,

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

You cannot buy a wood stove today that does NOT run on electric.

Outdoor furnace does require electricity to feed the power to circulation pump. It is used to move hot water out of the furnace and feed into area where you want the hot water pass though to heat them. It also requires to fire the optional oil/gas burner.

diehardbiker · 04-11-2011, 02:25 PM

You can, if local code permits and you have access to build right chimney.

Im going to build chimney at my home soon. Almost have everything need to build it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

Will update... Mostly alike will add wood furnace next to Oil furnace?

I will update it later... Right now I am focusing on my three weeks left to finish college for summertime!

**Foxrac** · 04-11-2011, 02:30 PM

Ouch, our home uses natural gas to heat the home and hot water so natural gas bill during wintertime was around $250 per month but just down to under $100 during springtime and summertime.

**KristinaB** · 04-11-2011, 04:10 PM

Currently, we do not need much heat. We have a wall unit A/C with heat settings that is supposed to force the air to all rooms. Doesn't work well at all with either heat or A/C, but MIL refuses to spend more money. We just bundle up with the quilts and comforters. We are not allowed (MIL's rules) to have space heaters of any kind. When we move back to Missouri, we will most likely so as before and have central A/C with heat. All electric. I never learned how to use a fireplace and have never had gas for anything in the home.

03-31-2011, 06:21 AM	#44 (permalink)
Phillips Lets ride horses! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Spaceship Posts: 11,170	My neighbor warning me that do not buying a pellet stove because once in a while (with bad weathers) that there was black outrage electric and we cannot use a pellet stove since it is requiring the electric! __________________ My journal! http://poochie21.blogspot.com/ *Enjoy life today, Yesterday has past and Tomorrow may never come.*

04-11-2011, 02:30 PM	#59 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,556	Ouch, our home uses natural gas to heat the home and hot water so natural gas bill during wintertime was around $250 per month but just down to under $100 during springtime and summertime. __________________ In Moto We Trust

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03-30-2011, 03:45 PM	#40 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,809	There's always the option of a woodstove (whether wood/logs or wood pellets). They don't cost more than a few thousand. But accessibility to wood or pellets would be a must. Put it on the lower (not necessarily the lowest if lowest is only storage/unused basement) but lower level that is used, and let heat rise. The cost savings of not running a furnace can be phenomenal. (I say "can be" because I still buy wood pellets so I still shell out the cost for that, but if I had access to free wood if I had a wood stove rather than wood pellets, I would save so many hundreds of dollars a winter.) As it is, I still save quite a bit over running a furnace all the time.

03-31-2011, 11:56 AM	#55 (permalink)
radioman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the good ole USA ! Posts: 2,554	hmm - if your hubby already has access to that kind of wood, he gotta drive home anyways so bring wood home is awesome. I envy you in a way. Slabwood is the cheapest to buy, but if he works there, I am sure he can bring stuff hom for free. I am surprised you haven't done that yet

04-11-2011, 04:10 PM	#60 (permalink)
KristinaB New SDIT Deacon Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Land of the backstroke Posts: 13,775	Currently, we do not need much heat. We have a wall unit A/C with heat settings that is supposed to force the air to all rooms. Doesn't work well at all with either heat or A/C, but MIL refuses to spend more money. We just bundle up with the quilts and comforters. We are not allowed (MIL's rules) to have space heaters of any kind. When we move back to Missouri, we will most likely so as before and have central A/C with heat. All electric. I never learned how to use a fireplace and have never had gas for anything in the home.