Discrimination against HH/Deaf oralists?

mikatehgr8t · 03-22-2011, 06:01 PM

Is this true? In another post of mines, there's a discussion about how deaf students at Gallaudet who use ASL to communicate discriminate against deaf students who communicate orally?

I'm asking this because I've only been around hearing people. I've never really got to get involved with the Deaf community. In April, there is an opportunity for me to finally get involved but I don't want to face this kind of judgement & discrimination for communicating the only way I know how...pretty much all my life I was judged & discriminated for being hearing impaired by hearing people so that'd be pretty sad to finally get involved with people like myself and then to be judged & discriminated again. I'd feel like I wouldn't fit anywhere if that happened.

I am not trying to offend anyone, by the way. I just need to know.

**shel90** · 03-22-2011, 06:06 PM

With every group, it is different. Like in any community, there are people who are close minded and people who are patient and open-minded. You just have to find the people you click with and ignore those who discriminate.

Same thing in the hearing world..there are hearies who discriminate and some dont.

drphil · 03-22-2011, 06:38 PM

Wise thoughts from shel90.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

AlleyCat · 03-22-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

With every group, it is different. Like in any community, there are people who are close minded and people who are patient and open-minded. You just have to find the people you click with and ignore those who discriminate.

Same thing in the hearing world..there are hearies who discriminate and some dont.

Perfect!

That's the same advice I gave to another poster here weeks ago - I don't remember his name. He was saying he was having a hard time interacting with his friends because they were not patient with him or close-minded. I wrote that it was time to find new friends. Find those you click with, just like you said.

donotfeedbsugar · 03-23-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikatehgr8t

Is this true? In another post of mines, there's a discussion about how deaf students at Gallaudet who use ASL to communicate discriminate against deaf students who communicate orally?

I'm asking this because I've only been around hearing people. I've never really got to get involved with the Deaf community. In April, there is an opportunity for me to finally get involved but I don't want to face this kind of judgement & discrimination for communicating the only way I know how...pretty much all my life I was judged & discriminated for being hearing impaired by hearing people so that'd be pretty sad to finally get involved with people like myself and then to be judged & discriminated again. I'd feel like I wouldn't fit anywhere if that happened.

I am not trying to offend anyone, by the way. I just need to know.

I wrote something like this in another thread. I have been hard of hearing since I was 4 but didn't know sign until I got to the certain age of knowing that I had a 2nd culture. I'm more oral than signing but wanting to learn. I was discriminated (and still do) coming up but over time I have learned to deal with it. It's just pure and simple ignorance. Brace yourself because it IS going to happen but...you can always walk away and like the other members said...click with someone else.

deafdyke · 03-23-2011, 06:28 PM

It DOES happen, and I wish so ****ing BADLY it didn't. I think virtually all the "deafer then thou" people are mixing up the stereotypical AG Bell kid (meaning one of those kids who thinks that b/c they are oral they were better educated) with kids who simply didn't get to be exposed to ASL. It's not our fault we weren't exposed to ASL. But on the other hand, there are still a lot of kids who went to Clarke or who went to CID or who went to where ever who came to Gally. Gally actually even had a booth at the Clarke Mainstream conference! To tell you the truth, I think Gally's (along with Deaf Ed) going through a transistion right now. In ten or twenty years, Gally is gonna look more like NTID is now.
It does seem overall, if you have the attitude that " Oh I didn't get exposed to ASL while growing up, but I'm very interested in learning it." you'll get accepted by most Deaf people.

***VamPyroX*** · 03-23-2011, 06:37 PM

I've been discriminated by other deaf people... for many things... clubs... meetings... work... school... activities... etc.

They complain that hearing people discriminate against them. Yet, they also discriminate among others.

**shel90** · 03-23-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

I've been discriminated by other deaf people... for many things... clubs... meetings... work... school... activities... etc.

They complain that hearing people discriminate against them. Yet, they also discriminate among others.

Ask yourself...why do these deaf people discriminate?

Think about it.

Frisky Feline · 03-24-2011, 05:13 AM

people discriminates people is what they do in life.

the best thing is to ignore those ignorant obnxious people and find the cool people that will do.

planetdoodle · 03-24-2011, 10:01 AM

Some of every group discriminates against other groups,If u hate yourself u start hating people.

drphil · 03-28-2011, 08:52 AM

I one hates "oneself" then it might be "interesting" to determine the "validity" of such. No easy matter in self reflection.

Duly discussed by my user name's book: Self Matters- creating your life from the inside out. Check your local library.

Implanted Advanced bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

**Dixie** · 03-28-2011, 11:16 AM

If they are discriminating against you, it's time to move on.

natty_4ever · 03-29-2011, 06:47 PM

Oh no! I hope it isn't one of my posts that scared you. I posted some things about Gallaudet and some of the discrimination that happens there.

Please don't worry! If you have the opportunity to be with people who are like you, EVEN if you don't sign--GO FOR IT. Look, in June 2010, I started my first ASL class. A few weeks later, I was only able to sign the most ridiculously simple things. I could sign my name, things I liked, how are you, soda, tea, school, etc. It didn't matter though, because every single person I met was really patient with me and fingerspelled signs I didn't know (which would help me learn more ASL). Not a single person discriminated against me for being raised oral and mainstreamed. In fact, not all of them were raised with ASL and we had a common connection.

I wrote what I said about Gallaudet specifically because I had a bad experience with one girl, and I heard horror stories about discrimination there. But the thing is, everyone is right when they say that discrimination is everywhere. Fortunately, in the Deaf community, people who discriminate against oral deafies are very few. You're hard pressed to find those people, but if you see them, just move on to better people. Obviously I'm over my fear of Gallaudet now, and if I see any crazy people who tell me I'm not deaf enough because I grew up oral or whatever, I'm gonna just ignore it and keep going on with my life. If they are closed-minded, they're not worth your time.

Now, since last year, I've found that I'm actually way more comfortable with deaf people than I am with hearing people. It's just easier to communicate and requires no explanation for why I am the way I am. You might find the same thing, but you have to give the Deaf community a chance. They don't bite. I was scared when I first started entering the community, but now I feel like I'm so much happier. DO IT!

deafdyke · 03-30-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

wrote what I said about Gallaudet specifically because I had a bad experience with one girl, and I heard horror stories about discrimination there. But the thing is, everyone is right when they say that discrimination is everywhere. Fortunately, in the Deaf community, people who discriminate against oral deafies are very few. You're hard pressed to find those people, but if you see them, just move on to better people. Obviously I'm over my fear of Gallaudet now, and if I see any crazy people who tell me I'm not deaf enough because I grew up oral or whatever, I'm gonna just ignore it and keep going on with my life. If they are closed-minded, they're not worth your time.

Nattie, do you agree with me that most Deaf folks aren't "Deafer then thou?"

natty_4ever · 03-30-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Nattie, do you agree with me that most Deaf folks aren't "Deafer then thou?"

Absolutely.

**shel90** · 03-31-2011, 05:21 PM

I was at Gallaudet today and I saw deaf people who looked like they had just learned ASL sitting with those who were very fluent in it. I saw some Sim-Comming in the Ratskellar area but no pure oral-only. Maybe those who looked like new signers were oral only when they enrolled at Gallaudet and now are able to sign even if it is slowly and awkwardly.

deafdyke · 03-31-2011, 07:33 PM

I really think Deaf culture is changing...Like it's gonna look more like NTID then old school Gally. I do think that Deaf Schools and programs need to do active outreach to the kids who are oral first, somehow.

natty_4ever · 03-31-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

I really think Deaf culture is changing...Like it's gonna look more like NTID then old school Gally. I do think that Deaf Schools and programs need to do active outreach to the kids who are oral first, somehow.

Definitely. I had no idea any of this existed before February 2010. So basically a year ago, I was in the dark. I would have been so much more comfortable in school, in my social life, and EVERYTHING had I just found the Deaf community sooner. If those schools had reached out to me, I would have found my home in the Deaf world a long time ago!

deafdyke · 03-31-2011, 08:34 PM

]

Quote:

I would have been so much more comfortable in school, in my social life, and EVERYTHING had I just found the Deaf community sooner. If those schools had reached out to me, I would have found my home in the Deaf world a long time ag]o!

AMEN!!!! Like yes, there are oral and mainstreamed kids who are pretty much "almost hearing" but hoh can also mean "might benifit significently from ASL as a second language and regional programs." The Deaf World would be ENOURMOUS if they did that!

BecLak · 03-31-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

]AMEN!!!! Like yes, there are oral and mainstreamed kids who are pretty much "almost hearing" but hoh can also mean "might benifit significently from ASL as a second language and regional programs." The Deaf World would be ENOURMOUS if they did that!

I have a question: If Spanish, French, German, Indonesian, and Japanese and Chinese languages all find a way to become a second language taught in schools, and English in other countries, why not sign language such as ASL, Auslan etc? How would we go about getting sign language taught as a second language in mainstream schools across the board??

natty_4ever · 03-31-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BecLak

I have a question: If Spanish, French, German, Indonesian, and Japanese and Chinese languages all find a way to become a second language taught in schools, why not sign language such as ASL, Auslan etc? How would we go about getting sign language taught as a second language in schools??

They are. In some states, ASL can be taken for class credit. Not all states, but some. In the US, I don't know of any schools that you can take Auslan, BSL, etc. at, but they do have ASL.

We could encourage schools by showing the benefits of ASL and visual communication and showing how many people use ASL. Most of my friends who took it in high school really just took the classes because they thought it was cool. Most hearing people are already fascinated with signing anyway, and would love to take ASL classes.

Oooh, another point I forgot: One big, really important factor too is that not all colleges accept ASL as a foreign language. I wanted to take ASL so badly for my foreign language requirement, but I couldn't because my university would not have accepted it as a "real" foreign language and wouldn't have given me credit. If more colleges accepted ASL, more students would take it.

deafdyke · 04-01-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

How would we go about getting sign language taught as a second language in mainstream schools across the board??

Not only that, but I really think that dhh post elementary programs need to somehow collaborate with elementary oral programs or oral solotaires to see if they might benifit from ASL as a second language.

justinram11 · 04-08-2011, 10:38 PM

In small town Minnesota we have an ASL class and it is actually the most popular 2nd language class of them all (with Spanish and German as it's competition). It is by far my favorite class aswell as other peoples! I do think that we need to get it into mainstream high schools as it is fun and a very enjoyable class.

I'm not sure if it is ASL in general or the teacher, but the class is AMAZING.

**KarissaMann05** · 04-10-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natty_4ever

They are. In some states, ASL can be taken for class credit. Not all states, but some. In the US, I don't know of any schools that you can take Auslan, BSL, etc. at, but they do have ASL.

We could encourage schools by showing the benefits of ASL and visual communication and showing how many people use ASL. Most of my friends who took it in high school really just took the classes because they thought it was cool. Most hearing people are already fascinated with signing anyway, and would love to take ASL classes.

Oooh, another point I forgot: One big, really important factor too is that not all colleges accept ASL as a foreign language. I wanted to take ASL so badly for my foreign language requirement, but I couldn't because my university would not have accepted it as a "real" foreign language and wouldn't have given me credit. If more colleges accepted ASL, more students would take it.

Yeah...

Because some people believe ASL and another sign languages are not a true language if it is not a spoken language and have no support for grammar something (not sure what it is -- I forget what rules). Additionally, Deaf Culture do not have a religion, a country, popular food, popular clothes, and some others that. That is why some people consider Deaf Culture as a sub-culture one, unimportant one... they won't consider it as a foreign language. Maybe you guys, AD'ers, still remember the post about so-called "safety and communication", those people STILL think 'having a hear sense' is more important in the world so "Disability Culture" would consider as outrageous and/or ridiculous.

Really, it's sad to not respect ASL or any sign language... I do think sign languages are part of human rights...

So, blah. =/

Mudkipz · 04-10-2011, 06:57 PM

Sign language looks fun, spectacular, interesting compared to others, I'd bet...

Good posts here, really.

**Bottesini** · 04-10-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudkipz

Sign language looks fun, spectacular, interesting compared to others, I'd bet...

Good posts here, really.

It is. You will love it.

dereksbicycles · 04-12-2011, 09:53 AM

I don't care if they talk orally or use sign language. Being profoundly deaf myself, I know that I cannot talk orally. I don't mind hearing people speaking orally. I would often wonder when I see deaf people talk orally, I wonder, "Why not me"? Deaf or not, I often feel left out.

natty_4ever · 04-14-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereksbicycles

I don't care if they talk orally or use sign language. Being profoundly deaf myself, I know that I cannot talk orally. I don't mind hearing people speaking orally. I would often wonder when I see deaf people talk orally, I wonder, "Why not me"? Deaf or not, I often feel left out.

Some hearing people think it's pretty cool when we sign, because they can't understand us. I don't think you should feel left out because someone can talk and you might not be able to. I can understand feeling left out in a huge group of people who are talking and no one is willing to interpret or write anything down for you, but don't be jealous of someone else's oral skill, that's just silly! I can't draw anything to save my life, but if I see someone else who can, I think it's pretty cool. I don't feel left out though, because I understand that I have a different skill set. The same goes for speech--maybe you can sign better than them or you can do something else.

Speech can't bring you far in life, but your confidence and motivation can. That's just how I feel though.

Hohtopics · 04-14-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natty_4ever

Some hearing people think it's pretty cool when we sign, because they can't understand us. I don't think you should feel left out because someone can talk and you might not be able to. I can understand feeling left out in a huge group of people who are talking and no one is willing to interpret or write anything down for you, but don't be jealous of someone else's oral skill, that's just silly! I can't draw anything to save my life, but if I see someone else who can, I think it's pretty cool. I don't feel left out though, because I understand that I have a different skill set. The same goes for speech--maybe you can sign better than them or you can do something else.

Speech can't bring you far in life, but your confidence and motivation can. That's just how I feel though.

I'm not sure if he was necessarily implying that he was jealous. Maybe he was just using that as a motivation.

natty_4ever · 04-14-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hohtopics

I'm not sure if he was necessarily implying that he was jealous. Maybe he was just using that as a motivation.

Maybe so, I could be wrong! It just sounded like the "why not me" part was from wishing he could do it too.

03-22-2011, 06:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
mikatehgr8t Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Pennsylvania. Posts: 19	Discrimination against HH/Deaf oralists? Is this true? In another post of mines, there's a discussion about how deaf students at Gallaudet who use ASL to communicate discriminate against deaf students who communicate orally? I'm asking this because I've only been around hearing people. I've never really got to get involved with the Deaf community. In April, there is an opportunity for me to finally get involved but I don't want to face this kind of judgement & discrimination for communicating the only way I know how...pretty much all my life I was judged & discriminated for being hearing impaired by hearing people so that'd be pretty sad to finally get involved with people like myself and then to be judged & discriminated again. I'd feel like I wouldn't fit anywhere if that happened. I am not trying to offend anyone, by the way. I just need to know.

03-22-2011, 06:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,271 Blog Entries: 3	With every group, it is different. Like in any community, there are people who are close minded and people who are patient and open-minded. You just have to find the people you click with and ignore those who discriminate. Same thing in the hearing world..there are hearies who discriminate and some dont. deafdyke, BecLak and Mudkipz like this. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

03-22-2011, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,107	Wise thoughts from shel90. Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07 __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

03-23-2011, 06:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 40.18, 58.41 Posts: 34,136	I've been discriminated by other deaf people... for many things... clubs... meetings... work... school... activities... etc. They complain that hearing people discriminate against them. Yet, they also discriminate among others. __________________ Check out my city... C L I C K H E R E! (If you've already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

03-24-2011, 05:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,206	people discriminates people is what they do in life. the best thing is to ignore those ignorant obnxious people and find the cool people that will do. Bottesini and planetdoodle like this.

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

03-23-2011, 06:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,078	It DOES happen, and I wish so ****ing BADLY it didn't. I think virtually all the "deafer then thou" people are mixing up the stereotypical AG Bell kid (meaning one of those kids who thinks that b/c they are oral they were better educated) with kids who simply didn't get to be exposed to ASL. It's not our fault we weren't exposed to ASL. But on the other hand, there are still a lot of kids who went to Clarke or who went to CID or who went to where ever who came to Gally. Gally actually even had a booth at the Clarke Mainstream conference! To tell you the truth, I think Gally's (along with Deaf Ed) going through a transistion right now. In ten or twenty years, Gally is gonna look more like NTID is now. It does seem overall, if you have the attitude that " Oh I didn't get exposed to ASL while growing up, but I'm very interested in learning it." you'll get accepted by most Deaf people.

03-24-2011, 10:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
planetdoodle Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: IN Posts: 151	Some of every group discriminates against other groups,If u hate yourself u start hating people. __________________ LUCKY THE BEAGLE

03-28-2011, 08:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,107	I one hates "oneself" then it might be "interesting" to determine the "validity" of such. No easy matter in self reflection. Duly discussed by my user name's book: Self Matters- creating your life from the inside out. Check your local library. Implanted Advanced bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07 __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

03-28-2011, 11:16 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dixie May I be found in Him Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 13,266	If they are discriminating against you, it's time to move on. __________________ Oh, you will. It is all a dream and since matter cannot be created nor destroyed, the dreams must be real in all their myriad forms. -Beowulf This Delicate Thing God Has Made *The world is measured in peasants; smaller than a unicorn but, bigger than a tidbit!*

03-29-2011, 06:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
natty_4ever Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 351	Oh no! I hope it isn't one of my posts that scared you. I posted some things about Gallaudet and some of the discrimination that happens there. Please don't worry! If you have the opportunity to be with people who are like you, EVEN if you don't sign--GO FOR IT. Look, in June 2010, I started my first ASL class. A few weeks later, I was only able to sign the most ridiculously simple things. I could sign my name, things I liked, how are you, soda, tea, school, etc. It didn't matter though, because every single person I met was really patient with me and fingerspelled signs I didn't know (which would help me learn more ASL). Not a single person discriminated against me for being raised oral and mainstreamed. In fact, not all of them were raised with ASL and we had a common connection. I wrote what I said about Gallaudet specifically because I had a bad experience with one girl, and I heard horror stories about discrimination there. But the thing is, everyone is right when they say that discrimination is everywhere. Fortunately, in the Deaf community, people who discriminate against oral deafies are very few. You're hard pressed to find those people, but if you see them, just move on to better people. Obviously I'm over my fear of Gallaudet now, and if I see any crazy people who tell me I'm not deaf enough because I grew up oral or whatever, I'm gonna just ignore it and keep going on with my life. If they are closed-minded, they're not worth your time. Now, since last year, I've found that I'm actually way more comfortable with deaf people than I am with hearing people. It's just easier to communicate and requires no explanation for why I am the way I am. You might find the same thing, but you have to give the Deaf community a chance. They don't bite. I was scared when I first started entering the community, but now I feel like I'm so much happier. DO IT! deafdyke, shel90, Bebonang and 1 others like this.

03-31-2011, 05:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,271 Blog Entries: 3	I was at Gallaudet today and I saw deaf people who looked like they had just learned ASL sitting with those who were very fluent in it. I saw some Sim-Comming in the Ratskellar area but no pure oral-only. Maybe those who looked like new signers were oral only when they enrolled at Gallaudet and now are able to sign even if it is slowly and awkwardly. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

03-31-2011, 07:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,078	I really think Deaf culture is changing...Like it's gonna look more like NTID then old school Gally. I do think that Deaf Schools and programs need to do active outreach to the kids who are oral first, somehow.

04-08-2011, 10:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
justinram11 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MN Posts: 45	In small town Minnesota we have an ASL class and it is actually the most popular 2nd language class of them all (with Spanish and German as it's competition). It is by far my favorite class aswell as other peoples! I do think that we need to get it into mainstream high schools as it is fun and a very enjoyable class. I'm not sure if it is ASL in general or the teacher, but the class is AMAZING.

04-12-2011, 09:53 AM	#27 (permalink)
dereksbicycles Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 60202 Posts: 3,787	I don't care if they talk orally or use sign language. Being profoundly deaf myself, I know that I cannot talk orally. I don't mind hearing people speaking orally. I would often wonder when I see deaf people talk orally, I wonder, "Why not me"? Deaf or not, I often feel left out.

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