Reba

If people work for the government, they get paid holidays. If they work for private businesses, some get paid holidays, some get holidays without pay, and some get no holidays. Each company has a different policy.

Hubby and I get no paid holidays (no work, no pay). My son-in-law gets no holidays (no time off). None of us gets annual leave or overtime.

When Hubby and I used to be in the military, we got all the paid holidays.

Deafness

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DeafSCUBA98

i get paid holidays.. 6 times a year.. thanksgiving, christmas, new years eve, memorial day, july 4th, labor day

my parents don't get holiday pay.. however they do (so-called) get paid because they're on a salary income.. means u get same paycheck every 1st and 15th of the month doesn't matter how many hours u work..

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Nucleus Freedom 04/18/05
activiated 05/16/05

Reba

So you mean the Germans voluntarily give money for the Jews?


I know that the Nazis used Jewish cemetery grave stones for paving roads. The Nazis drove their vehicles over, and walked over the grave stones of Jewish families.


The Jews just want back the property that was stolen from them. The Nazis stole there houses, land, businesses, art work, gold, antiques, etc. If the Nazis had not stolen those things from the grandparents, the grandchildren could have inherited them. But the Nazis stole it, so now it has to be paid back. The grandparents are dead, so naturally it has to be paid back to their heirs, the grandchildren. Germany profitted from the Jewish property, so it is fair now to pay it back.


Do you mean the religious Jews are not as nice as the non-religious Jews?

Unfortunately, there weren't as many survivors as there were victims. Many orphans and widows were left behind. I think growing up alone, without any family or home, is suffering.

I think it is interesting how you refer to innocent people suffering torture and slaughter as "camping".


I was answering your question, "Why can't they make church taxes to improve their churches etc like what catholic & protestant did?
It wasn't German Hindus and Muslims that killed the Jews.


Right...That excuse didn't work at Nuremburg either.


With how many Jews have you discussed this topic?

kuifje75

Whoa, this is going off-topic with anti-German sentiments. First of all, this is about taxes, so if you want to discuss about the roles of Germans and their responsibilites to the Jewish population, then may I suggest that white Americans start taking their responisbilites to give reparation payments to the African American population for stealing them from their homelands, forcing them into slavery and so on? No African American has received any reparation pay as far as I know, except for some who received some property willed to them through their slave owners.

Should we bear the responsibilities to support the African American descendants of their slave ancestors with reparation because of all the cruel things we did to the slaves? This is history, and the same thing goes for the Jewish in Holocaust. I grew up with Jewish population in New Jersey, and many of my classmates in my German class were Jewish. I cannot imagine why Reba would perceive Jews as hating the Germans as she implies them to. I agree with Liebling, Jewish people are forgiving and moving on.

As for the reparation payments, I think it is enough to pay the survivors and their children, but not the grandchildren and so on. Can you imagine 6 million tortured, then each of them had 10 offsprings. You would have to be paying reparations to 60 million grandchildren? I know that it is not as simple as that, however I think it is ridiculous. There are some countries who never received any reparation payments from Germany such as Czech and Slovak Republics, but I imagine that it might be because their communist government had been preventing them from seeking for that. I might be wrong.

Also, not just the Jewish population suffered through this, but also the political prisoners (Hans and Sophia Scholl, Swinger Kids, Edelweiß, communists, etc...), Gypsie and Romanis, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.... all suffered through the Nazi Regime machine. And to blame the catholic or evanglische Church! Hitler was not religious and he wanted people to esteem him as "God." The Nazi Party never really liked any religious groups, but they had to "work" an image that they indeed were religious, so that religious people would support the Nazi Party. It's called propaganda. Kind of like what the US government is doing to their citizens today about the Iraq question today.

Anyway, enough of this off topic. As for taxes:
In New Jersey, many food and clothes were tax-free. You are right, Reba, food such as candies, soda, etc are taxed cos they are not really "needed" for health. Food like eggs, milk, flour, etc... are not taxed at all. In Utah, I never really figured it out.

Liebling, your question about paid holidays...

Yes, I do get paid for holidays, even if I do not work on that day. Normally, I work Wednesday to Saturday, and Fourth of July, for example, was on Monday this year. So I get paid an extra 8 hours for Fourth of July, making it a 48 hours week for me. If I had worked on Monday, I would have received 2 1/2 times the pay, plus full 8 hours vacation time to be used on other day.

Reba

Sorry that this is getting

I am trying to understand fully the reasoning for the German church taxes. Liebling was "shocked" that Americans don't support churches thru taxes. I am equally "shocked" that Germans do support churches thru taxes, and only certain churches at that. It is a very different philosophy from the American concept of separation of church and state.

Just to set the record straight:
I never stated nor implied that Jews hate Germans. I cannot speak for the Jews' feelings as individuals or as a group.


I didn't blame the churches; I was replying to a specific question.

kuifje75

It's not really tax money supporting the church, but rather donations. You really do not have to donate any money to German churches. The only reason why it goes through government, I assume, is for the government to know how much a Church earns in donations.

Another thing though:
When you move to Germany, or to a new town, you have to register yourself with the local police. The green papers (Anmeldungspapier) has "religion" on it, and you can answer what religion you are. Then if you give money for the "Church taxes", the government will know which church your money belongs to. As if a resident was a muslim, then the German government will give the Church money to the Muslim organisation. When I was in Germany, I just wrote "Nichtglaubiger" so that I wouldn't have to deal with any church taxes.

Your use of :rme: certainly implied some kind of tone.

Reba

But the government knows only how much Protestant and Catholic churches get. Why do they need to know that, and why do they not need to know that about the other religions?

According to Liebling, the German govt. gives money only to Protestant and Catholic churches.



What is ":rme:"; I couldn't find it in the smilies box.

kuifje75

Geez Reba, I guess you're being either dense or not paying attention. I guess you didn't read the whole thing I said. Do I need to show you what an Anmeldungsformular looks like?

And if you want to be smarty pants, :rme: means as in rolling my eyes.

Reba

I'm sorry, I guess I am dense because the only smilies I know or use are the ones in the reply to thread "box". I didn't know ":rme:" meant the same as ": r o l l :". I looked in the smilies box and I couldn't find it.

Liebling:-)))

Yes, we have many Lutheran-Evangelisch churches around here because of Martin Luther but we still call "Evangelisch" instead of use the word "Lutheran-Evangelisch".

No, it's not denomination like what I told you in my previous posts that Evangelisch (Protestants) are different as British and US.

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Liebling:-)))

Kuiji75, you said this wonderful

*sigh* Reba! I felt that you twisted my word. I am trying to make clear here.

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Liebling:-)))

I was surprised that you denied my post for jewishs. Yes, they ask for more and more... I withness myself thru medias, TV etc. The German government found out that some of jewish are fraud because they were not in camping or they did not lost their parents to Nazi, etc. It got stop unless they have proof which it was happened at long time ago. The children/grand-children and go on still fighting to get the rights as "heir" because their survivor generation were in camping... Nope... It's not them, but survivors.

I would like to remind you that it's not only jews who spent in camping but other people, like reglious, etc. too.

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Liebling:-)))

Yes you speak for jewish, not other people and blame catholic and protestant some of your earlier post.

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]I see why not? Government take care of his people and enviornement. The people from church tax office need to know how much each churches need to be repair, renovation, etc. etc. etc. etc. what priest need etc. etc. All what the priests do is get the application to get money for his needs. They paid churches thru church taxpayers.




The catholic and protestant got support THRU church taxpayers.
Muslims and other beliefs don't get from government but they collect money from charities/donation etc.

I would remind you that church taxes are voluntarily here in Germany.

I support church tax because of children's future. They will get something from priests's blessing is confirmation, wedding, funerals with no extra costs because we are member of church taxpayers. We (taxpayers) can donate churches if we want to.

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Liebling:-)))

Anyway, everyone, thank you for sharing your interesting posts over taxes, public holiday etc. with us here.

I can't beleive that taxes in America are very low than in Europe... wow...

The government paid all of German Public holidays for employees/civil servants.

I use both US and German Public holidays because I work for US Army. We only have US Public Holiday only if we are agree to work 40 hours a week instead of 38,5 hours a week with only German Public holiday. We are for 40 hours a week. They paid for us.

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kuifje75

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/Conf...any/warnke.htm

This is an interesting read on Church taxes in Germany.

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/ar...99/012999f.htm
Church taxes in Europe

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...168497,00.html
Germans leaving the church to avoid Church taxes

Keep in mind that this is purely voluntarily. People of other faith other than Protestant and Catholic are not required to pay Church taxes. That is why it is important to declare your religion on the Anmeldesformular (city residency registeration paper?). My status as Nichtglaubiger (non-believer) made it clear that I don't participate in the Church.

kuifje75

Interesting article:
http://www.freedommag.org/english/spegerm/page18.htm

Church taxes was a product of the Nazi Party in order to pacify the Churches about the activities of the Nazi Party.

Reba

How come the church members themselves don't take care of their church?

Yes, I know how expensive church renovation is. This summer our church must pay $80,000 to replace part of the parking lot. We also monthly support almost 90 missionary families all-over the world. Our church has 272 member families, and we pay for everything ourselves. I church would never accept government money.

I believe what you say. I just am curious why churches "beg" government for money. It is not the responsibility of governments to support churches. If a church is important to God's people, they will take care of it themselves. The best thing the government can do is keep "hands off".

If the churches can't support themselves, maybe they should close.

Reba

What is the doctrine of the Evangelisch/Protestant church? How are the beliefs different from British and U.S.? We have three missionary families in Germany, so this is interesting to me.

Reba

I was referring to this statement:
"Not allow? How could the priest get the money to improve/renovate their churches?"

Reba

Wow! That is a very interesting article. Thanks for the link.

Reba

That certainly is an interesting perspective.
All the news reports I ever saw showed the Germans crying, confused, upset, and in shock when they lost the war. I never saw any Germans celebrating the end of WWII.

kuifje75

I wouldn't say all Germans were screaming of happiness. But I think it is safe to say that a majority of Germans were fed up of the Nazi Party, but they just didn't dare say anything. People would get executed for being vocal against the Nazi Party. The Scholl brother and sister founded a resistance group in the Munich University called die Weiße Rose, and printed about 4 or 5 flyers condeming the party. Then one day, they were "discovered" and executed within a day or two.

Here's an article on the White Rose group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

I have the film about this group. It's an interesting film.

So many people I talked with when I was in Germany, they said that they were so glad that the Nazi Government was gone. It was a dicatorship, and very hard living in this totalarism regime.

Here is a famous song associated with the White Rose Group:

The thoughts are free, who can guess what they are,
they fly by, like nightly shadows.
No one can know them, no hunter can shoot it.
It stays like this: the thoughts are free!

I think what I want and what pleases me,
yet all in the silence, and as it is fitting for.
My wish, my desires can be refused by nobody,
it stays like this: the thoughts are free!

I love the wine, my woman above all,
She pleases me the best when alone.
I am not alone with my glass of wine,
my woman also there: the thoughts are free!

And one casts me in a dark dungeon,
that all, that are the works done in vain.
Because my thoughts rip the closets
and the walls into two, the thoughts are free!

About that, I want to always renounce the worry
and I want also never again plagued with silly ideas.
One can laugh and joke inside the heart
And think of that: the thoughts are free!

Reba

Yes, I have greatest admiration for the German resistors. I know that many of them fought underground, plotted against Hitler, risked their lives to protect Jews, etc. It was so hard because they never really knew who they could trust, and they were so outnumbered.

Liebling:-)))

Thank you for interesting link which it's good for the readers here.

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Liebling:-)))

Very interesting... *speechless*

I asked my hubby about this yesterday and also hearing co-workers, too. They don't beleive until they read your link.... *speechless* because we know for a long time that Hilter hates reglious, he got his people to burnt every bibles in 1933.

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Liebling:-)))

I find it's sad. I understand why we pay church taxes because they treat all churches same and fair instead of depend on same church and let other church closing down.

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Liebling:-)))

Check this link:
Number of Lutherans worldwide and also explanation

Germany – 25.8 million Lutherans in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran

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Liebling:-)))

Yes, you were right. I should say "many" or "most", not all, K75.


Reba,
I questioned ALOT of hearing and deaf Germans about their experience in Nazi times. ALL what they said to me that they are real happy and feel free from Nazi time.

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Reba

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer to my question. Do you mean churches give money to people?

In my local area there are hundreds of churches.
I just checked the on-line phone book directory, and it shows 1,046 churches and 8 synagogues listed in my area. Some are very large, some medium, some small.
http://yp.bellsouth.com/?mkt=CHSC&he...ch=X&from=TLPP

This is another list but I think it is out-of-date because it uses the old phone area codes.
http://www.marinersguide.com/regions.../churches.html

Members pay the support for the church they belong to and attend. For example, the members of Citadel Square Baptist Church pay for the support of that church building, staff, expenses, and their missionaries. The members of the Charleston Unitarian Church pay for their building and staff and expenses. The members of Aldersgate United Methodist Church pay for their building and staff and expenses.


I can understand that sometimes the very old historic church buildings might want public renovation money because they are important historical sites for the community. But in general, people support their own churches because of their beliefs, not for the buildings.