Sometimes... - Page 4

Frisky Feline · 05-29-2012, 11:01 AM

I am pretty sure that you understand why they got upset at how your post was. Same idea for a person who was really hispanic but he told everyone that he is an italian guy. He speaks fluent in italian language. Every italian people are thrilled to hang out with him asking lots of italy history etc. All of a sudden, He turns out that he told them that he is not italian. He is hispanic so the italian people would be feeling insulted. That's what it applies to how deaf/hoh people feel about it.

Cylly1 · 05-29-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

I am pretty sure that you understand why they got upset at how your post was. Same idea for a person who was really hispanic but he told everyone that he is an italian guy. He speaks fluent in italian language. Every italian people are thrilled to hang out with him asking lots of italy history etc. All of a sudden, He turns out that he told them that he is not italian. He is hispanic so the italian people would be feeling insulted. That's what it applies to deaf/hoh people feel about it.

Yeah, I really do understand, but I didn't tell them I was deaf. I just started signing and they just assumed and it wasn't to make fun of them.

Cylly1 · 05-29-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereksbicycles

Let's say someone went to school to learn to fix a car properly. Someone else try their hands to fix car on their own. They're stuck. They don't know what to do. Hey, finish my job. I cannot fix the car properly.

What do you think? See why a mechanic may charge you more if you try yourself first. Not trying to hurt you, but there are people that works hard on their craft.

But if I find people to teach me the correct way, then I wouldn't have to rely on them no matter how good they are.

Anij · 05-29-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

If I saw you signing and I just walked up to you and started signing, would you ask me if I was hearing or deaf? When I went to the restaurant, I didn't pretend like I couldn't hear, I just didn't use my voice, so people just assumed and I guess that's where the pretense came from. It was more like a way to put myself in someone else's shoes and see if I could get them to sign with me.

Actually, depending on the context, yes there's a fairly high likelihood you'd be asked and expected to offer if you are: Hearing/Hoh/Deaf, where you went to school, were you learned to sign (and who your teacher were), as well as you're connections in the Deaf community.

All of these are fairly typical things Deaf (and hearing ASLers) share when introducing themselves - upfront.

You'd be expected to say right off that you are a hearing person, trying to learn ASL on your own, and that you haven't taken any classes yet, nor have any Hoh/Deaf/ASLer friends etc... and you'd certainly never "pretend no to hear" (ie pretend you don't hear sounds going around you, or answer if one of your hearing friends said something etc ...you'd be expected to be and act hearing.

If you asked where a bathroom was, then no it's not going to come up. However if you start an actual conversation - or expect to "chat", then yes - be expected to give you're associations. It's Deaf Cultural Norms.

Also - you did more than just "not talk" - you allowed your friends to "pretend you were deaf" (your words) to perpetuate the misconception.

Real Hoh/Deaf people would either sign and speak (or mouth words) or would ask "do you sign" in ASL and if no, we'd grab a paper and pen, or our mobile and start writing/typing. We'd never stand there signing at someone who doesn't sign "hoping they guess" what we mean or conducting some sort of communication experiment.

The most important thing when people interact is communication - that means finding common ground and using it. Anything else, regardless of language and culture is disrespectful to all parties.

MintyOreo · 05-29-2012, 04:57 PM

Cylly1 - might I suggest that you read this?

What you're doing - pretending to be deaf when you're not, and/or signing to people and letting people THINK that you are deaf, just as a social experiment - makes me really mad. Without completely bursting my top on you, I can't add anything else to this thread besides this: If you want to learn ASL/PSE/SEE/whatever you're learning, then okay. But please do it the correct way - either with competent, skilled teachers, or by making some local Deaf friends who would help you to learn and practice. Read up on Deaf culture, and try to be more considerate.

Oh, silly one... You don't know everything. If you think that you do, I'm here to tell you that you're wrong.

**saywhatkid** · 05-29-2012, 08:03 PM

Sometimes, I pretend I can hear normally and make fun of the person speaking, as if they are speaking poorly.

Cylly1 · 05-30-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Sometimes, I pretend I can hear normally and make fun of the person speaking, as if they are speaking poorly.

There's your mistake. I didn't do it to make fun of anyone. Sorry if your feelings got hurt, but you shouldn't assume that all hearing people are out to make fun of deaf people, that they think it's funny that deaf people have to use another language to communicate. I didn't go around waving my hands frantically around like it was joke. I used actual signs like water, or drink and guess what they did understood. I like ASL and I want to use it, and I end up using it whenever I'm in a conversation anyway...

Cylly1 · 05-30-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintyOreo

Cylly1 - might I suggest that you read this?

What you're doing - pretending to be deaf when you're not, and/or signing to people and letting people THINK that you are deaf, just as a social experiment - makes me really mad. Without completely bursting my top on you, I can't add anything else to this thread besides this: If you want to learn ASL/PSE/SEE/whatever you're learning, then okay. But please do it the correct way - either with competent, skilled teachers, or by making some local Deaf friends who would help you to learn and practice. Read up on Deaf culture, and try to be more considerate.

Oh, silly one... You don't know everything. If you think that you do, I'm here to tell you that you're wrong.

People practice languages on there own all the time. It's not to make fun of anyone. Sorry that you're mad about it. I can't change my ethnicity to speak Japanese, but I can turn off my voice to use sign language.

You THINK that I think I know everything, but I'm here to tell you... you're wrong.

**saywhatkid** · 05-30-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

There's your mistake. I didn't do it to make fun of anyone. Sorry if your feelings got hurt, but you shouldn't assume that all hearing people are out to make fun of deaf people, that they think it's funny that deaf people have to use another language to communicate. I didn't go around waving my hands frantically around like it was joke. I used actual signs like water, or drink and guess what they did understood. I like ASL and I want to use it, and I end up using it whenever I'm in a conversation anyway...

I was being sarcastic. I also have pretty thick skin, so don't worry.

If you want to practice ASL, find the deaf coffee near you and attend it. Those deafs don't have to fake, and they know ASL very well. Maybe they will teach you.

Hanging out with your friends at the mall, pretending to be deaf, is not much different from walking with a fake limp. Maybe you mean well, but it does not appear that way to the people that LIVE deaf every day.

Peace out.

Cylly1 · 05-30-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

I was being sarcastic. I also have pretty thick skin, so don't worry.

If you want to practice ASL, find the deaf coffee near you and attend it. Those deafs don't have to fake, and they know ASL very well. Maybe they will teach you.

Hanging out with your friends at the mall, pretending to be deaf, is not much different from walking with a fake limp. Maybe you mean well, but it does not appear that way to the people that LIVE deaf every day.

Peace out.

Well, I don't know how many time I can apologize for offending people, but it wasn't to make fun. Maybe you can thicken up some of their skins by telling them not everyone hearing person's out to get them. I've looked for deaf groups around my area, but I haven't found any since school let out. Living deaf is just living, people can get by whatever language they use. i was just using sign language to see what it was like since there's not other way to practice it. Sometimes I use my voice when I sign sometimes I don't.

AlleyCat · 05-30-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

Well, I don't know how many time I can apologize for offending people, but it wasn't to make fun. Maybe you can thicken up some of their skins by telling them not everyone hearing person's out to get them. I've looked for deaf groups around my area, but I haven't found any since school let out. Living deaf is just living, people can get by whatever language they use. i was just using sign language to see what it was like since there's not other way to practice it. Sometimes I use my voice when I sign sometimes I don't.

I'm sorry I ever thought of defending you when you were being picked on in other threads. This is despicable. We deafies KNOW hearing people are not "out to get us". Pretending to be deaf (or any other disability) is downright immature and offensive. I hope you get a swift kick in the ass off this forum, and quick.

green427 · 05-30-2012, 12:16 PM

Cylly 1: It is not so much now the act that you did that offends us, but it is your general attitude towards your own act that is offensive.

If you cannot see it this way, adios. Any attempt to reason with narcissistic personalities is futile at best.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveBlue

Interrupters use ASL to bridge a language gap between two or more people. I doubt (Reba, correct me if I'm wrong) they use the language they interpret when they're not working unless they are with friends whom that language is their native language.

Two or more people signing to each other in public for communication purposes is one thing. Signing by oneself or in a group for entertainment value is totally something else.

Sign and interpreting students can practice together without making a public scene about it.

I do practice frequently when not working but not in malls. Usually at home.

Otherwise, I use it naturally in conversation with Deaf friends.

Here's the big (bad) difference between serious practice and mockery (from OP's post):

"I know it's probably wrong, but I found it interesting to do. Sometimes when I go out to public places like restaurants or just out with my friends I start using sign language to people I don't know just to see what happens. My friends go along with it and pretend I'm deaf as well."

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

That's a disease, not a language. Are you implying deafness is a disease since "That's pretty much what I'm doing"?

So, if you were studying a spoken language you would use make up and costumes to imitate the natives, and prance around in public that way? You would pretend that you don't know English? You would flash a green card? What?

Quote:

And maybe next time if they do meet a deaf person, they'll know more sign than they did before.

Yeah, right. That's how hearing people pick up sign language.

No, it's more likely that next time they meet a real deaf person they'll think, "Oh, boy, another one of those nutty kids acting goofy."

What you're doing is not "helpful" in the least.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

So using another language is being a "wannabe", what about all the interpreters? for any other language? guess they're "wannabes" too. I already know how to stand on my head, practicing ASL was next. ^^

As an interpreter, it's never been my desire to "play deaf" in public. I don't know of any other interpreters who have done that either. We may be occasionally mistaken for being deaf but it's never intentional.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

So anyone who uses another language is a wanna be? When I spoke Chinese to the people in the Chinese restaurant, they said my chinese was really good. Same with my Japanese when i use it in public. But the only reason I use Sign Language is because it's closest to English, so maybe they'll actually understand what I'm saying.

In your Chinese and Japanese examples you were having a two-way conversation in the same language. If you were signing ASL with a deaf signer in a two-way conversation, that would be fine. But that's not what you were doing.

Do you go up to people who don't speak Chinese and just start blabbering in Chinese to them and pretending that you don't understand English?

Quote:

And I'm not making fun of anyone. When I sign people want to know more and they find it interesting as well. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, just use the language. So, what's the problem? That I actually stop talking when I use Sign Language?

Your words:

"I know it's probably wrong, but I found it interesting to do. Sometimes when I go out to public places like restaurants or just out with my friends I start using sign language to people I don't know just to see what happens. My friends go along with it and pretend I'm deaf as well."

That's baloney. There is no way that signing to hearing strangers and pretending that you can't hear will make people "want to know more." They'll just think you're part of some nuttiness or a scammer of some kind of rip off. They'll think, "What is wrong with that person?"

That is not helpful to the Deaf community.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveBlue

An interpreter is already fluent in the language they interpret, otherwise they wouldn't be qualified to interpret. They're also taught to respect the language and the people who use it. They would not use it with strangers who do not know the language. How would that be practicing?

Excellent points.

Quote:

Language is receptive & <can't think of the word to use for the one talking/signing>, so to practice both persons need to know the language.

Receptive and expressive.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

Well, I don't know how many time I can apologize for offending people, but it wasn't to make fun. Maybe you can thicken up some of their skins by telling them not everyone hearing person's out to get them....

Except you just put the lie to that statement.

By your actions, you reinforced the belief that hearing people mock deaf people.

LoveBlue · 05-30-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Excellent points.

Receptive and expressive.

Thank you...just could not remember "expressive" when I was typing that.

***naisho*** · 05-30-2012, 01:51 PM

There is no easy way to say this nicely. Everyone has different attitudes and personalities on how they approach others.

I can kind of see myself a similar situation that I have been in. Like the movie series Rush Hour with Jackie Chan (Lee) trying to be black and Chris Tucker (Carter) telling him he has a long way to go. Likewise, Carter tries to pretend to be Chinese and Lee tells him to cut it out because he knows Carter's just a wannabe.

(Joke) there was actually a funny part where Carter and a Chinese guy get in an argument. It reminds me of the sides in this topic.

[Rush Hour] - Im no punk bitch - YouTube

I'm not african-american, but if I were to hang out at the basketball court and start acting black:
"hey what be up my nigs"
"you be a bangin balla, pass me the ball bro"
I already know I'm going to get some weird looks by the guys on the court. They'd say I was a wannabe and tell me to get lost. They know that I know zilch about african-american/black history.

This same case may also apply for deaf, if some deafies saw some fake sign language they're going to be wondering what's up with that person. You gotta be humble and gain their respect first to be accepted, the same thing that goes on with any language and group in the world.

Grayma · 05-30-2012, 02:19 PM

I sign in public, too. At the library with one or two of my fellow sign language learners because we are *practicing* and we do this by signing with other people who are *practicing* a topic we are studying. We do not 'pretend to be deaf.' In fact, once in a while, if I notice somebody staring, I make a point of speaking so that nobody assumes we are deaf.

Sometimes I sign in public to my kids when they are too far away to hear me, or behind a window- but I am not pretending to be deaf. I am using the signs I know for legitimate communication. I make no effort to make others think I am deaf, and I do not ever sign to somebody whom I have no expectation will understand me.

At least, not on purpose. It does come out accidentally sometimes when I have just finished talking ot my deaf friend or when I am playing charades.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveBlue

Thank you...just could not remember "expressive" when I was typing that.

It happens to the best of us.

**Reba** · 05-30-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

...I'm not african-american, but if I were to hang out at the basketball court and start acting black:
"hey what be up my nigs"
"you be a bangin balla, pass me the ball bro"
I already know I'm going to get some weird looks by the guys on the court. They'd say I was a wannabe and tell me to get lost. They know that I know zilch about african-american/black history....

Umm, I don't think you'd safely get past the first line that you stated . . . you'd get more than weird looks....

LoveBlue · 05-30-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayma

Sometimes I sign in public to my kids when they are too far away to hear me, or behind a window...

Don't all mothers have "signs" their kids understand?

My kids learned Uno, dos, tres, quatro, cinco, spanko (when I got to 5, I made a swatting motion).

And one, two, pinch (made a pinching sign...when I'm really mad/want them to do something).

Cylly1 · 05-30-2012, 05:21 PM

check out the beginning post ^^

cdmeggers · 05-30-2012, 07:14 PM

really? just because it's summer and school's out, there's no deaf socials? really? .... I find that kind of strange.

Where I live, deaf socials happen all year round, regardless of whether or not school is in session. If ASL students at the college (or high school) want to continue learning, they know how to contact some of us for when deaf social is (via text, email or even facebook). Here, we typically have 2 deaf socials per month (bowling, and ice cream or coffee), sometimes more depending on what's going on and what some folks want (sometimes it's Deaf Girls Night, dinner somewhere; the guys getting together, group camping trips in the summer, someone wanting to have a birthday dinner somewhere, picnics at a park, etc.).

There has to be at least someone that is willing to help you improve your signing skills in your area. Keep reaching out, surely someone will come along.

AurorasLight · 05-30-2012, 08:26 PM

I'm not mad about this yet, I'm still confused as to why you thought that it was a good idea to post this for all of us to read. I don't see a problem with signing for practice and even doing it while you speak in public or around others but pretending to be deaf to just see how others respond isn't very respectful. Not only are you disrespecting Deaf and H.O.H individuals but you're lying to the people that are trying to help you...

**saywhatkid** · 05-30-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylly1

check out the beginning post ^^

Check out these links...

Students Looking for ASL buddies

Welcome to Deaf Chat Coffee

Kentucky Association of the Deaf

**Smithtr** · 05-31-2012, 02:59 PM

It pretty notice seems your pretend on story! It is serious,no reason , how do you know on proves story, you know careful on avoid on ego, means, reason I don't like on pretend on drama!, be careful your, I reading bit notice your story! it is bit on story it is bit hurting feeling ! it is no reason unpleasing , serious point! what is why reason how pretend platy games! I don't like pretend! be careful! you lesson your own find out way your responsibility help counselor support community club! really encourage to friends likewise, that is point, that is point!

I am experience many times on grow up meet to deaf community and camping lots of enjoy positive that is point!

How I learn how improve many times volunteer to friends few community support experience!

you own how best find out match club improve, out search find community area!

eirlys · 05-31-2012, 03:34 PM

It just seems offensive.. and creepy.

Kinda like those people that mutilate themselves or purposely use crutches or a wheelchair when they don't need it just to get sympathy and attention.

I don't have a lot to add to this that hasn't already been said, but it really does give me the creeps.

05-29-2012, 11:01 AM	#91 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,236	I am pretty sure that you understand why they got upset at how your post was. Same idea for a person who was really hispanic but he told everyone that he is an italian guy. He speaks fluent in italian language. Every italian people are thrilled to hang out with him asking lots of italy history etc. All of a sudden, He turns out that he told them that he is not italian. He is hispanic so the italian people would be feeling insulted. That's what it applies to how deaf/hoh people feel about it. Last edited by Frisky Feline; 05-29-2012 at 08:16 PM. Reason: how is added

05-29-2012, 04:57 PM	#95 (permalink)
MintyOreo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 264	Cylly1 - might I suggest that you read this? What you're doing - pretending to be deaf when you're not, and/or signing to people and letting people THINK that you are deaf, just as a social experiment - makes me really mad. Without completely bursting my top on you, I can't add anything else to this thread besides this: If you want to learn ASL/PSE/SEE/whatever you're learning, then okay. But please do it the correct way - either with competent, skilled teachers, or by making some local Deaf friends who would help you to learn and practice. Read up on Deaf culture, and try to be more considerate. Oh, silly one... You don't know everything. If you think that you do, I'm here to tell you that you're wrong. Oceanbreeze, Reba, Smithtr and 2 others like this. __________________ A FEW of my favorite quotes: “Why fit in when you were born to stand out?” ~ Dr. Seuss “The past does not have to be your prison. You have a voice in your destiny. You have a say in your life. You have a choice in the path you take.” ~ Max Lucado “Knowing that we can be loved exactly as we are gives us all the best opportunity for growing into the healthiest of people.” ~ Fred Rogers “Even though you may not understand how God works, you know he does.” ~ Max Lucado

05-29-2012, 08:03 PM	#96 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,242 Blog Entries: 2	Sometimes, I pretend I can hear normally and make fun of the person speaking, as if they are speaking poorly. Frisky Feline and Bottesini like this.

05-30-2012, 12:16 PM	#102 (permalink)
green427 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cooch's Bridge Battlefield Posts: 1,630	Cylly 1: It is not so much now the act that you did that offends us, but it is your general attitude towards your own act that is offensive. If you cannot see it this way, adios. Any attempt to reason with narcissistic personalities is futile at best. MintyOreo likes this. __________________ Warning: Anything I post may not make any sense. All advice is for entertainment value only. Sarcasm might be present. Interpret at your own risk.

05-30-2012, 02:19 PM	#111 (permalink)
Grayma Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 958	I sign in public, too. At the library with one or two of my fellow sign language learners because we are practicing and we do this by signing with other people who are practicing a topic we are studying. We do not 'pretend to be deaf.' In fact, once in a while, if I notice somebody staring, I make a point of speaking so that nobody assumes we are deaf. Sometimes I sign in public to my kids when they are too far away to hear me, or behind a window- but I am not pretending to be deaf. I am using the signs I know for legitimate communication. I make no effort to make others think I am deaf, and I do not ever sign to somebody whom I have no expectation will understand me. At least, not on purpose. It does come out accidentally sometimes when I have just finished talking ot my deaf friend or when I am playing charades. Reba likes this.

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

05-30-2012, 05:21 PM	#115 (permalink)
Cylly1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: ケンタキーにすんでいます。I live in Kentucky. Posts: 119	check out the beginning post ^^

05-30-2012, 07:14 PM	#116 (permalink)
cdmeggers Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,198	really? just because it's summer and school's out, there's no deaf socials? really? .... I find that kind of strange. Where I live, deaf socials happen all year round, regardless of whether or not school is in session. If ASL students at the college (or high school) want to continue learning, they know how to contact some of us for when deaf social is (via text, email or even facebook). Here, we typically have 2 deaf socials per month (bowling, and ice cream or coffee), sometimes more depending on what's going on and what some folks want (sometimes it's Deaf Girls Night, dinner somewhere; the guys getting together, group camping trips in the summer, someone wanting to have a birthday dinner somewhere, picnics at a park, etc.). There has to be at least someone that is willing to help you improve your signing skills in your area. Keep reaching out, surely someone will come along. Bebonang and Cylly1 like this. __________________ My Ear Blog Advanced Bionics BEA Volunteer Mentor

05-30-2012, 08:26 PM	#117 (permalink)
AurorasLight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 16 Blog Entries: 1	I'm not mad about this yet, I'm still confused as to why you thought that it was a good idea to post this for all of us to read. I don't see a problem with signing for practice and even doing it while you speak in public or around others but pretending to be deaf to just see how others respond isn't very respectful. Not only are you disrespecting Deaf and H.O.H individuals but you're lying to the people that are trying to help you... __________________ You play me like I am made of strings. I'm a violin, a melody I want your lips to sing.

05-31-2012, 02:59 PM	#119 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,656	It pretty notice seems your pretend on story! It is serious,no reason , how do you know on proves story, you know careful on avoid on ego, means, reason I don't like on pretend on drama!, be careful your, I reading bit notice your story! it is bit on story it is bit hurting feeling ! it is no reason unpleasing , serious point! what is why reason how pretend platy games! I don't like pretend! be careful! you lesson your own find out way your responsibility help counselor support community club! really encourage to friends likewise, that is point, that is point! I am experience many times on grow up meet to deaf community and camping lots of enjoy positive that is point! How I learn how improve many times volunteer to friends few community support experience! you own how best find out match club improve, out search find community area! __________________

05-31-2012, 03:34 PM	#120 (permalink)
eirlys Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 235	It just seems offensive.. and creepy. Kinda like those people that mutilate themselves or purposely use crutches or a wheelchair when they don't need it just to get sympathy and attention. I don't have a lot to add to this that hasn't already been said, but it really does give me the creeps. AlleyCat and MintyOreo like this. __________________ Severe/Profound HoH in right ear, Moderate HoH in left. Has Otosclerosis and is actively avoiding the BAHA Very happy with Rexton Insite Power BTE Would rather be playing Soul Calibur V or WoW!

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