Jiro

that's why... bottom line..... does it matter?

if you felt compelled to identify yourself as "white" or "Indian"... it's probably because you're dealing with racist people - both overt and insiduous.

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Deafness

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deafdrummer

(rereading the thread here)

Ahh, you see?! Look at the helmet in your avatar. Any Confederate ancestors there? That would explain your rebel streak!

deafdrummer

Does this DNA test confirm your place in the Indian line, like does it tell you, "you are (insert partial quotient here) Indian of this tribe)," or does it just say, you have these markers and that's all? I am interested in taking this test. Since I'm very new to this, who can I trust to do the test and not say, "You appear to be descended from Mahapadma Nanda (emperor of India) [snickers while typing the letter]. Congratulations!"

kokonut

Native American DNA Testing for Tribal Rights

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Jiro

you could talk to chief

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C.C.Sinned

yes, on my mother's side of the family. First Arkansas Cavalry & Stand Watie’s Cherokee Mounted Rifles.

my father's side of the family did not come to America until 1880s

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deafdrummer

I don't know yet, but it appears that my great-great Grandmother was already 70s or older by the time the photo I posted was made, which I think was about 1905-1910, meaning she was born 1840s or possibly earlier. This is a helluva a stretch to think that my Grandfather was born 124 years ago! I have a friend who has five generations alive! The oldest is ONLY about 85 or so! My DAD would be 94, and I'm only in my 40s! See, my Grandmother was #4 out of 5, and my Dad was #4 out of 5. So, you have the illusion that our family spans the centuries, but really, the problem is, they don't live long after the last kids are born. I never got to know my grandparents. I came along 25 years after my previous half-sibling was born!

deafdrummer

Yep! And there is LIVE chat available right now if you're curious. I'm waiting on a Native American Specialist to contact me back to give me details on testing. I can't afford to do it right now, I don't think, but it sure does feel good to know it's there. The question is whether this is enough to get me enrolled, since the records I have are all I have, and they are not rolls records, only various town census records from 1850 to 1900, and I don't know that the ancestor/stry.com things are going to work for me or end up in a dead end, and pay out money anyway. The rolls records were destroyed at a BIA location (and I'm thinking intentionally) during a flood or a fire or something.

LOL, there is even a search page at ancestry.com that contains copies of my great grandfather's Confederate Pension Application submitted in 1907. I have to JOIN to even see the dang thing. BUT ah-hah, I have a copy on loan from my stepmother, and I'm in the process of scanning it in.

Thurman Pate - Ancestry.com

deafdrummer

Dayum! There's your answer! Do you have any information on why they were on the Confederate side in the war? I'll have to ask if my stepmother knows about the Pates' reasons for doing so.

C.C.Sinned

the cherokee/choctaw relatives wanted to be left alone. live their lives in the new home (Oklahoma) that was forced on them.

The white relatives not to sure about their reasons. they all had small family farmers. grew what they need. just simple folks.

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Grayma

Supposedly some distant ancestor of mine was Indian, I forget what tribe, but I think that's just a fun family story.
both of my husband's great-great-grandparents were part Indian, Cherokee and Chocktaw. They lived in Oklahoma. Their daughter, my husband's great-grandmother, helped raise him, and she said her father wouldn't sign the Cherokee Registry because he just wanted to be an American. He said that's what the Civil War was about.

She had a lot of interesting stories about her dad. He seemed like quite a character.

Roca

DeafDrummer,

I DNAd with 23andme.com.

They use 3 population groups: European,African,Asian. With this company,FB Native Americans test as 75% Asian,25% European,give or take
10% either way,reflecting current theory that they originated in Central Asia.

This autosomal test will not say one's descended from a particular tribe.
Even if it were possible,for some east coast tribes,it's too late for DNA testing,there being no FB descendants left.

One interesting feature with 23 and Me is Relative Finder@. They match your DNA up against others in the database,give you a predicted range (ex:
3-7th cousin),and a most likely (ex: 4th cousin) relationship. I don't know how they do that! I have 361 DNA cousins on that site,of various race backgrounds.

The native nations will not acceot DNA testing for tribal membership. One
still has to prove direct descent from a registered member.

Some nations have a blood quantum requirement,some don't.Others have
geographic requirements.

I know of a lady in the Carolinas who wanted to join her parents Native nation,which I will call Tribe A. Tribe A refused her application because her parents were born outside of Tribe A's traditional counties of residence. She
did apply with Tribe B,with which she has a lower blood quantum,and is now
enrolled.

There are also cases where people are FB,descended from multiple tribes,but don't meet the blood quantum enrollment requirements for any of
them that they're descended from.

Nevertheless,do your best to track your heritage and learn the history and culture. It will enrich your life,regardless of one's ethnic background.

Frisky Feline

the huge & fat cat ( really cute, indeed a huge kitty) sitting outside on the sidewalk and the words says " I am an american cat lol"

airportcop

I am a mutt or Heinz 57! European like English and German mostly but my great grandmother on my father's side was said to be Blackfoot. But I don't believe that she had papers to prove it. She died before I was born. Very interesting. I love history and heritage. If you are born in America then you are Native American! Indian is a better term at this point in our history.

__________________
Romans 12:12 (NIV) Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

Frisky Feline

MsSaraB

My great grandmother (mom's side) was full-blooded. I am very olive skinned and the only one to be this dark in my family and I was not adopted so I can only assume that it came from her. Perhaps there was a secret in my dad's side that is simply not talked about? lol.

deafdrummer

:hideunderthechair:

deafdrummer

Reminds me of a joke Dad told from time to time.

An old man was dying on his deathbed, and something was troubling him. He looked around at his family, and he feebly asked his wife, "Dear, I've got something that's always been on my mind over the years since the kids were born... I've always looked at Adam and felt like he wasn't like the rest of the kids. Is he really my kid?"

You could just see the look of a guilty person coming clean on her face when she replied, "Uhh, yes... He is yours. The only one that is yours."

But seriously, I have two half-sisters and a half-brother. Only one half-sister has the Indian look, and her kids definitely have the looks as well. The other sister and brother don't seem to pass for Indian AT ALL. I mean, white as ghosts (which is me when I don't get sun) and from red-headed to blond (I'm red-headed). Go figure. I was told today by a recently-made friend (within last two years) that I didn't look particularly Indian after telling him that I was doing this work on my family history. I said, well, it came from my grandmother, and he kept saying, well, you don't look it, though (and chuckling like I was an Indian wanna-be). It was odd that he kept saying that... I wonder why... I do have bolder cheekbones and a folding eyelid on one side and an anglo eyelid on the other. You can see the difference if you pay attention. But it's there.

airportcop

I don't understand??? I know that the American Indians are the only true Native Americans but at this point I'm tired of all the African American, Mexican American, etc. crap! If that is the case then I'm a European American or a Heinz 57 American or a Mutt American. We are all Americans if we were born here or immigrated legally and became citizens! I am not degrading the Indians as I would love to be able to prove my heritage. I would like to know more about the DNA testing. Is it accurate and how much does it cost? Where does one get it done?

__________________
Romans 12:12 (NIV) Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

Steinhauer

Great grandmother was full blood Miami. I also have Cherokee in me too (and a gazillion other things).

Miami people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

deafdrummer

I'm just saying that that was an explosive statement, and I was hiding under the chair because that it's just not something to say without ascertaining what could go flying across the room. I hate getting into labels, but here goes.

You ARE an American, but not Native American or Indian in the traditional sense of the word. However, let's take this to another level. Was it appreciated by the Indians that the land they lived on was taken from them for their own use? Does the "legal immigration laws" only give license to "immigrants" to be able to "legally steal" the land that was being used by the Indians to start with? Does the United States of America have any moral reason to exist, since it was based on invading and eventually taking over enough land to eventually create a "statist" system based upon the US Constitution, that without the Bill of Rights, would have created a completely unlimited government (hence, the fight between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalist)? Before you answer that, please ask that of the victims of the forced removals that resulted from the Indian Removal Act of 1830. Yes, Congress gave THEMSELVES "legal license" to push aside the Indians so that the "immigrants" could take what wasn't theirs.

It appears that my great-great grandmother whom you saw in the photo was just a baby during the forced march, IF she had been born then. Her mother was 35, and her father was 50 at the time of the march into Indian territory. The 1850 census of the town they were in appears to confirm that she was 12 years old that year, so she was born in 1838, hopefully before the forced march. I can also confirm that her parents were farmer and housewife. Her future husband, a day laborer, shows up in the 1860 census, about two years older than her. He evidently was on the march at two years old. The next census shows her with five children, so the one person in the photo with six people together has one man who is really part of the other family that is Scandinavian, I BELIEVE (jesus, this is complicated!). This last point, I don't know for sure, but the rest of it, yes.

kokonut

Eskimos been around quite awhile, too.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

deafdrummer

I got a reply back - "Unfortunately our laboratory does not offer any type of DNA testing that can tell you if you are native american or what Tribe you belong to. We only offer DNA family relationship testing to current tribal members that need to enroll their family into their tribe."

I wrote back asking if anyone provides a DNA test in the event that all surviving ancestors have passed on. I'll give an update on that. If anyone know who provides this kind of service, let me know.

Edit:

And the answer is, they are not aware of such tests. Damn... The US government did a pretty thorough job, huh? Someday, there WILL be payback. Just because Latin America is largely catholic is not entirely the reason why large families exists.

VacationGuy234

This could be worth a lot of money since the tribes try to cut out people so they don't have to pay out casino money. It happens a lot at the Connecticut casinos. If you could prove ancestry, you could win big money in a court settlement.

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CSign

You have to be able to prove your direct relationship. Even with that, it's up to the tribe whether or not they will accept you as a tribal member. As someone mentioned, some of the larger tribes such as Cherokee have a certain blood quantum you need to meet. For some other smaller tribes such as the Coast Miwok, there is no blood quantum requirement.

But- in my case I discovered the Coast Miwok connection after they closed the tribal rolls. I discovered it about 3 years ago, and I've been stonewalled. They won't really give me any information, and there are no plans of opening up the tribal rolls.

Interestingly enough, they are planning to open a casino. I think that is playing into all of it. My interest in not motivated by money. It is to celebrate what my ancestors had to deny, and learn about the culture that was in a sense taken from me. In all honesty, the whole situation makes me sad. In a way, they are perpetrating further what was done to my ancestors, just in a new generation.

CSign

Perhaps. But if you are truly interested in being a tribal member, and learning more about the culture a law suit isn't going to win you any points. Let's say you win, who in the tribe would really want to associate with you (general you)? I think it is best pursued in other ways. Geneaology research is the place to start.

airportcop

I know what happened to the real/original Native Americans or Indians. It is terrible what our government did. But, it is not much different than that which was done to the black slaves. The Indians in a way were and are compensated. I know that doesn't begin to justify what occurred but we are way past all of that by now or should be anyway. Holding on to the past doesn't help anyone when it comes to unforgiveness or grudges. I was just curious about the DNA testing. I would like to be able to prove my heritage but I don't expect any benefits. Just learning more about my history!

__________________
Romans 12:12 (NIV) Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

CSign

^work on your geneaology

Grayma

I'm not so sure about the Cherokee and a blood requirement. What we were told is that your Cherokee ancestor had to sign the Dawes Commission Roll, which closed in the early 1900s.
That's the roll my husband's great-great-grandfather refused to sign because he 'just wanted to be American,' according to my husband's great-grandmother.

deafdrummer

How were the Indians compensated? There is only a 100-square mi reservation out east and scattered communities through the country.