kokonut

Lot's of Cherokee blood here.

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"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Deafness

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CSign

Makes sense, since it's the largest tribe in the nation.

kokonut

Yeah. My wife is 1/8th Indian blood but don't know which tribe. Her grandfather is 1/2 blood but never knew who his father was.

Here's an interesting confirmation:

Northwest Indians

Similar responses from Indians that I've personally talked to in the Northwest.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CSign

If she's 1/8, that would mean that it's her Great Grandparent? Did that person not talk about their heritage? It might be relatively easy to figure it out, depending on where the person came from...

My 2nd Great Grandmother was Coast Miwok, a tribe located primarily in Marin County, CA. She lost her parents at a very young age, and became a servant/slave. I found her in the 1900 census as a servant, and she married a few years later.

I don't think my Great Grandma or her brother ever knew about their heritage. I think she pretty much kept mum about it until the day she died, to protect her family. Even after the Emancipation Proclamation, Indians could be essentially slaves up until 1925 (I believe, might be off by a year or two). Because Indians were discriminated against in finding jobs, housing, etc., my belief is she was trying to protect them against the evils of this world.

I discovered the connection a few years ago, which my family knew nothing about. My goal is to learn more, and openly celebrate where I come from. I like to educate people about them, because too often their significance gets lost in the shuffle.

People are so concerned with what is going on today, that they don't take time to reflect on the past that allowed them to get to where they are. I like to honor my history, especially in an effort to celebrate and give reverence to that which my GG Grandmother had to deny.

Jiro

eh you're not closely related. don't fool yourself. I'm sure I may have a distant lineage somewhere along with Genghis Khan or some royalty since most of our families are wealthy but not gonna kid myself with it.

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kokonut

No, because my wife's grandfather (George) never knew his father. The mother did not say anything or much about George's father other than that he was an Indian. A taboo affair at the time? Rape? Who knows? That's the problem but we do know for a fact he's 1/2 Indian with no mention of which tribe and that's where the tracks end.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

C.C.Sinned

you are not alone
source

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Roca

Very thoughtful post,C-Sign!

Here in VA,some people have had difficulty proving their heritage because of
Walter Plecker,the former director of Vital Statistics.

Plecker believed that VA had no Indians and the tribal remnants thereof were
heavily mixed with W African ancestry. Acting on that belief,he rewrote many
birth certificates and other documents

You might also want to read "Black Indian Slave Narratives" by Patrick Minges. I met Mr. Minges several years ago at a book signing in VA. Some NAs owned African slaves,had mixed race Afro-Native slaves,and enslaved
those from other tribes.

One tribe in VA,who I will not embarrass by naming,once had a "blackout"
clause. Their anti-miscegenation law excluded those who didn't marry whites
or other NDNs from residing in "Indian Town". However,I haven't,as one of
Afro-Indian background,been discriminated against by modern day members
of this tribe because of my physical appearance. (Brown and kinky-haired.)
I descend from this particular nation,for better or worse.

Genealogy is one of my hobbies. You're right,many young people nowadays don't want to talk about the past and how their ancestors "got over". (Made it) Sad!

CSign

Who was this post directed towards?

CSign

I will definitely check out that book, ...

It was a similar situation with the Coast Miwok (in terms of them not being acknowledged). Very little documentation, and no federal recognition until years later. Then the government removed their "tribal status" (can't remember exactly when). It wasn't until 2004 (not 100% positive about the year, but around that time) that they regained their status.

With the influx of the Spanish (think Mission Dolores and Mission San Rafael Archangel) and European settlers, the Coast Miwok started to die off at an alarming rate.

What really did them in was being at the Missions, in relatively small dormitories with people packed on top of people. Diseases ran rampant, and ultimately the neophytes who left the Mission to go back to their villages to get healed, spread the disease to others in the villages.

I've been working on my geneaology for the last 6 years or so, and wish I could spend all my time doing it.

kokonut

I was lucky. My uncle (my Mom's brother) is a genealogy nut and spent years and years tracking our lineage down.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CSign

I see that as a mystery waiting to be solved I understand the dead ends. I've been there with some of my lines. Sometimes though; even years later, the connection presents itself.

I recently discovered the parents of one of my ancestors, after years of trying to figure it out.

Also, I couldn't find my GGG Grandma in the 1860 census. About a month ago, I found her although she was only listed as "Indian"- no name. By the year of her birth, and knowing she had a brother I was able to make the connection to this unnamed "Indian".

I like a challenge, and it makes me try even harder when it seems like an impossible task.

CSign

You are lucky! I'm that person in my family. I started young, so I know by the time I'm done I'll have lots of interesting info to pass on. I already do

kokonut

Well, I don't have the genealogy bug, soooo.... but glad my uncle has it.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CSign

LOL! I think you and 95% of the population sometimes I think my family wants me to stop telling them the stories... It's hard when you find out interesting information though!

kokonut

There's a new show called "Who do you think you are?" About celebrities finding out their roots and discovers sometimes shocking revelation like Reba McIntyre's GGG grandfather was a slave trader. Dirty laundry is always a possibility here. Like the possibility that one of my ancestor may have murdered Chief Cornstalk. :/

Who Do You Think You Are - NBC Site

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CSign

I've seen that show. What's funny about it is they make it seem easy, while most geneaology work isn't. Although it is a TV show, and I'm sure ancestry.com had a jump in membership after the show aired.

I'm certain all families have good and bad in their line... I have ancestors who were slave owners. I also have ancestors who fought on both sides during the Civil War. I gave the Confederate a pass though, chalking it up to the time and where he lived (West VA). Majority of my Civil War ancestors fought for the North though.

Jiro

to this thread

just FYI - if I were to direct it to someone, I'd use a quote button.

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Jiro

it might be a good idea to double-check it.

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CSign

Yes, that's what I thought. But you said, "you're not that closely related" as if it was directed towards an individual. That's why I was asking you.

Jiro

from a geneticist's perspective, anybody who is related to whoever by like 1/100 or 1/1000 is not even newsworthy. from a short hindsight, you and I are distantly related because we share same common ancestor from the beginning.

I wouldn't put much value in this kind of thing unless you're a direct descendant or via. If you're related to somebody just because you're a cousin of cousin of wife of whatever... c'mon. don't kid yourself with it. and guess what? Obama is related to Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and GWB

The more distant the relationship, the more likely it is that no DNA is shared. http://gradworks.umi.com/34/69/3469427.html

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deafdrummer

And this is happening all up and down the Americas, right? This will turn out to be interesting in the next 20 years.

I am a quarter Cherokee myself. In this collection of photos, you see:

Top left photo - my great-uncles and great aunt to the right surround my grandmother (wearing white)
Top right photo - my great-great-grandmother. This is where you really, really, I mean really see my father's face.
Second down from top left - my great-grandmother with daughter to the left. The boy to the left is the daughter's son (his father was from Scotland, who was in the Cavalry at Fort Sill, Ok and was later killed in a battle with the Comanches in the Red River area after 1900). He would be my Dad's cousin. I don't remember the relationship of the other boy to the family. I'll have to ask.

The first three photos mentioned were taken on the Indian reservation in Oklahoma.

Bottom right photo - my great-great-grandmother with the same boy.
Third down from top left - my grandmother in Madison, Wachita, OK in 1922
Bottom left - my aunts as little girls in 1919

It appears that my grandmother and and great aunt were the first ones to marry outside of the native lines in order to escape the poverty and hard times that would have swallowed them whole otherwise. Oklahoma was not the best land to farm on, not to mention tornadoes in the middle of the night. I wonder how the deaf deal with living in this part of the country - what do you have to warn you and get yourself out of a tornado's reach in the middle of the night (or are you not allowed to live by yourself if you're deaf? I sure as hell wouldn't).

Attached Images

ancestors-01-front.jpg (87.7 KB, 17 views)

kokonut

Of course, it's all set up and they don't really do all the hard work. Just travel here and there and meet people who explain to them about their past.

One of mine was on the confederate side, William P. Stone, one of the oldest surviving Civil War soldier with the 28th Alabama infantry who was wounded twice.

Pvt. William P. Stone,a Confederate Hero of the 28th Alabama Infantry

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

deafdrummer

Since we're talking about Indian blood heritage, I'm going to ask something really interesting, as some of you may have had this experience.

As a reminder, I was not found to be deaf until I was seven and a half, after I had failed first grade much earlier in that school year. When we had the Thanksgiving play in Kindergarten, I was almost 6. I wasn't communicating well at all and had no idea what was going on around me, the ABC recitals, the flag pledge, nothing.

How many of you with Indian blood, upon being dressed as the pilgrims, without knowing why, you got very angry, yelling and screaming, and you wanted to wear the Indian clothing instead? I didn't calm down until I had them on, and I remember going home after school that day, playing outside in a field across the street from the house while wearing them. It felt at home, it felt right. I can still see the house, the sun off to the left of it in the afternoon sky facing west, and the tall weeds reaching up to my little head and blowing in the wind.

Is it possible that some genetic memory was passed down to me from the Indian side? I believe that we have a base understanding of certain things that we inherit from our parents, though we don't necessarily become born able to speak tongues or figure out orbital mathematics.

I want to add that my Dad had strong emotions about the Indian side of the family, as he grew up in the 20s and early 30s. This was a time when being Indian was considered being half a notch above being black. It was really hard and turned people like my Dad into fighters. I mean, he could take down several men around him. Dad took home his school teacher to visit his mother one day, and as soon as she saw my grandmother, she turned right around and walked back out of the house without saying a word. Years later, some time in the 80s or 90s, Dad was watching some western about Indians and cowboys. I happened to look at him, and there was a tear running down his face. I wished I had asked him what he was feeling and thinking about at that moment. As I think about that today, it hits me very hard emotionally. I don't know why that hits me that way, unless it reminds him of this part of the family who passed before he did, and I know it? It's a mystery...

The Scandinavian part is not well known at all beyond my great-grandfather who apparently came over from either Iceland or Norway (we don't know which, and we don't know why - he never talked about it, and there's no record of him on any of the ship manifests - did he escape from Iceland is the question) and the woman who married him after his arrival. If I recall correctly, My great-grandfather Pate found out about my grandmother going out with my future grandfather, and OHHHHH, he wanted to kill him!!! The poor dear begged him, begged him not to kill him. It took a while to get over the loss of continuation of that part of the native line.

kokonut

Never had that experience. Instead, I just like the outdoors.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CSign

Great pictures Deafdrummer!

deafdrummer

Digging into the history a bit more here as I have been going through documents and hundreds of photos. And I'm beginning to understand what's happening here... Why I get angry on some things the way I do.

My great-grandfather fought in the American Civil War as a private in Border's Cavalry, Border's Battalion, Border's Regiment, or Anderson's Cavalry (it's confusing, because it he listed as Co. E, Border's Regiment on the Confederate Pension Application). This whole 8th Texas Cavalry was the ONLY cavalry unit to defeat an infantry army in the American Civil War. TWICE. Now, I know where my anger and my rebel streak comes from! Another Indian relative was in Company A, 8th Texas Cavalry and shows up on a roll of prisoners of war, processed through and paroled in 1865.

I can't imagine what this was like, especially since he was Indian to start with, maybe hoping to defeat the Army responsible for the Trail of Tears... Now, it's all beginning to make sense, and I was put here for some reason. But of course, I don't understand fully the circumstances of his enlistment in the Confederate States Army (CSA). Still, I wonder if I was put here to finally witness payback for the hardship of some of my ancestors.

No wonder I feel different. Something that you might want to talk about here is how you feel about being mixed blood, because somewhere down the line, your family was punished for being Indian and defeated, and you're paying for it in some way to this day. Maybe your grandparents and parents made up in spite of it and provided a more-or-less equal footing for you to start with.

I'm beginning to feel more and more that you get a lot of things passed down to you through the generations physically. As I mentioned before, you may not have been speaking tongues or doing mathematics, or saying to Fred, "Why did you kick down my Daddy's door in 1951?" when you were four years old, but there is something that you KNOW. You can't hide from it. It's there.

And I forgot to add one other thing. My half-aunt's family, the Custer line (through her father), is descended from General Custer of Army infamy. I've, uhh, heard some interesting stories about them that I'm not going to go to in here.

Jiro

hence..... racial injustice

great stories, deafdrummer. insightful too. you are much more blood-related Indian than OP. something that I'm encouraging OP to do same about one's family history rather than just hollering around about being remotely, distantly related to some figure.

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deafdrummer

Yup... racial injustice. I don't know that I would want to be the one to bear these stories if I had a choice. See, something happened to my Mom, which I'm beginning to see why she seemed to marry men of mixed blood, starting with my Dad and later. Dad recalled a story that happened when I was a baby. We visited my Grandmother (her mother from the Payzant line), and Granny picked on Mom about my Dad, and when she got racist about him, Mom said, "That's it. THAT IS IT!" She packed up the suitcases and said, "Let's go..." We flew back, and just a month or two later, we went back for Grandmother's funeral. Mom never saw her again alive. Not a good place to end on. And I wonder how Granny viewed me on my mixed blood. Maybe I'd rather not find out?

It's hard... Because I'm never fully one or the other. I'm not totally white. And I'm not totally Indian, either. Same story for being deaf. I'm not Deaf, but I'm not hearing, either. And there's also another way in which I'm not fully one or the other, but I'm not going into it here. The point is, I'm not fully accepted by any of the dominant groups. Sure, I can go to the mixed club, but I feel so lost! I feel like I don't have any solid footing here. And this is where I begin to wonder - is there really any solid footing, based upon DIVISIONS of people into neat little boxes? A woman mentions that "all human culture... is a big game of make believe." ALL OF IT. Does this mean that I am free in the "mixed club?" That the lack of solid footing means exactly that; freedom! That I'm free to simply be???

CSign

Deafdrummer- that is exactly why I don't like to label myself. I choose to be me. We are all individuals, and we are all different. It's good for a person to just embrace themselves for who they are, and not allow others to define them. To put it simply, you are you. Exactly who you should be