kokonut

Applied to 17 and 18 year old students...and not about adults in general as it has been explained before and not about the average reading level either but the median or the 50th percentile. That means the other 50 percent have reading literacy level above the 4th grade level. Besides, this was based on a 1996 study. But let me ask you this, what do you think the literacy level is right now?

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"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Deafness

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jillio

Correct.

Here are the settings for ages 6-21

(regular classroom refers to a hearing classroom in a public school setting)

Regular classroom >80% of the time 53.3%
Regular classroom 40-70% of time 17.2%
Regular classroom <40% of time 15.8% (these would represent the self contained programs)
separate school 8.2%

jillio

No, you are misinterpreting the way that standardized scores are used.

posts from hell

And in all seriousness, what do you expect a normal child's reading level to be?

Is the 18 year old with 4th grade average acceptable for you?

It definitely is NOT acceptable for me.

jillio

Exactly. Is it really acceptable to sacrifice educational levels and quality simply to keep a child in a mainstream environment where they spend the vast majority of their day in a hearing classroom with minimal accommodation?

kokonut

How about answering my question for a change?

Reading level ought to be equivalent with their hearing peers...assuming the hearing peers are doing well that is.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

The why isn't it, if the mainstream oral environment is appropriately providing for the deaf student's needs?

posts from hell

Because I am not interested in playing your games. It's waste of energy.

If you think it is something else, or actually have some sort of information that shows something is better than what I have to deliver - show it.

kokonut

I basically said that 4th grade reading level was basically outdated/old (re: 1996). And from what you are saying the 4th grade reading level is wrong...that is, too low of a score? Am I reading that right?

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

Numbers from today would be even lower. More students are mainstreamed in oral only environments. You find that acceptable?

And the data is not outdated. It is the most current available that has been meta-analyzed. Likewise, you cannot limit it to 17 and 18 year old students alone, as there are those deaf in the mainstream that do not graduate until the age of 21. (see post #302)

Now, back to the discussion. Given what the numbers are showing, is the orally based mainstream education addressing deaf children's needs as a whole? And if not, why are so many deaf children placed in the mainstream?

And keep in mind, these numbers are in relation to academics alone. There are many other issues to be considered when addressing children's needs in an educational environment.

posts from hell

keep going.

kokonut

Ok. Then what do you think the median really is on literacy level for deaf 17 and 18 year olds?

Here's the problem on what you said earlier. I have no way of knowing if you are trying to say that the median 4th grade literacy rate for 17 and 18 year is wrong or not since you said "myth." Saying "myth" gets a little gamey here. There is some truth on the low literacy rate but exactly where is it? We know it's low but how low on the median score? Hence, the reason I'm asking you on what you think it really is.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

Again, you cannot limit it to 17 and 18 year olds. I explained why.

And the mean and the median will remain the same in a normalized population. Since we are talking about standardized scores, the population has been normalized.

posts from hell

I never said myth.

It does not matter what I think the scores are. What matters is what they are.

Unless you have some sort of facts or what not to show I am in wrong, I consider this specific discussion closed.

jillio

See my post directly above yours. It will explain why that line of thinking is fallicious.

posts from hell

I see what you're saying. Never thought of it that way.

kokonut

I stand corrected.

Wrong about what? The 4th grade reading literacy for deaf 17 and 18 year olds?

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

And here is another opportunity for analogy:

Kokonut has me on ignore. Therefore, he is getting only half of what is being said in this discussion, and as a consequence, is asking questions that have already been answered in previous posts. It is serving to derail the discussion.

Kind of like a deaf kid in a mainstream oral classroom, huh? See the effects of not getting all of the information?

deafskeptic

I have him on ignore.

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posts from hell

I never said 17-18 yr olds either. I threw out the 4th grade reading level so you can understand my beef with the mainstream, that is all.

And since you pretty much confirmed it in your previous post towards me I don't see any reason to try to hairsplit over the numbers.

We have a problem, low reading rates. No matter how you slice it, we have this issue.

Also, another fact, large % of the deaf population is in the mainstream.

That is what I was pointing out earlier.

And I extend you my sincere thank-you for agreeing with me in post 312.

deafskeptic

As far as I'm concerned, he is here to troll hence the ignore.

__________________
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Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

posts from hell

Very nice way of putting it.

deafskeptic

Thank you for confirming what I knew all along by liking my post.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

jillio

Well, then, you are still getting 100% of the information.

deafskeptic

You're going to like this?

__________________
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Activated on May 9th.
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deafskeptic

Too late, you can't take your like back.

__________________
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Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

deafskeptic

I should start quoting ya.

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jillio

deafskeptic

Koko, would you mind answering her question?

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kokonut

There are certain people I have no interest in whatsoever on having a discussion with. A pretty simple and basic concept to follow that even Deafskeptic understands that. People should understand that instead of complaining because somebody isn't responding.

Deafskeptic, I know you have me on ignore saying it for the umpteeth time in AD. Need validation from me or what? Oh, wait. I forgot, you have me on ignore. Yay! That's what the ignore button is for.

Carry on, folks.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."