Protest the killing of a Deaf Native American Man who was murdered by police!! - Page 3

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristy2078

Deaf people shouldn't have to wear something like that. Even if John did wear one of these, he still had a knife out in the open. It's just a matter of how he responded to the officer before he got shot.

knowing John's disability status would make officer behave differently. But like I said - if you are really really fearful for your life because of aggressive arrest or getting shot at due to your deafness, then wear one.

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkage

I am former resident in King County part of Seattle for 5 years. Sometime, I saw people carry larger knife on the belt becasue not fit inside pant's pocket. They never happen at any public.

I feel sorry for loss his life. The cops should know better - not to shoot him without they attack cop. No sense to shoot him with in approx 10 feet distance.

I wonder, John William knew sign language/ASL (not include indian gesture)??? He lost one hearing in 8 years ago.

big knife? interesting. when was that?

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

I checked the laws of that state, a 3 inch knife is legal and that's exactly what he was holding, therefore there was no reason for the cop to shoot him. The deaf Indian was legal through and through.

legal to carry it but illegal to carry a fixed blade knife.

Quote:

A photo of the knife recovered by police show the blade is 3-inches -- a knife that is legal to carry in Seattle.

Seattle Municipal Code states that it's unlawful for a person knowingly to "carry concealed or unconcealed on his or her person any dangerous knife, or carry concealed on his or her person any deadly weapon other than a firearm ...."

The code states "a dangerous knife means any fixed-blade knife and any other knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches (3 1/2") in length," though there are exceptions.

Any blade that could cause a lethal injury would be considered a deadly weapon, and the 3-inch knife Williams had was definitely capable of causing a lethal injury, Diaz said Tuesday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

The 2 year cop was on a yahoo trip, just waiting for an excuse to pull the trigger. He prolly hates Indians too, same for Mexicans and other people of color.

I read that 5 people died in the hands of those same cops in that city in 1 week alone. Something's wrong with their department. I think all these guys, including the Chief needs to be fired and replaced.

Yiz

yes I've stated that SPD needs a shakedown and that Chief needs to step down but that's a strong accusation there about the cops as racist trigger-happy vigilantes. I hope that's not the case.

yagazn · 09-09-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

got a big fat hearing aid

darkage · 09-09-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

big knife? interesting. when was that?

I would say about 5 inches blade plus about 3 inches handle (good for hand hold)

Summer 1981, I left Washington State.

That's kind of weather make lot of people feel blue mood because lack of sunlight and everyday gray cloud during earlier fall to spring season.

**Beowulf** · 09-09-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Seriously? You think that he thought "A damn deaf indian." and shot him on purpose?

Not that he got scared and shot him?

Seriously? How many of you think this way? Just curious because I don't know if this is one of those "the minority voice speaks louder" things or the majority really think it's a hate thing.

But... seriously?

Maybe I'm naive but what has the world done to you to make you think so bleak?

All I said was it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Don't assume so much from just one statement.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Seriously? You think that he thought "A damn deaf indian." and shot him on purpose?

Not that he got scared and shot him?

Seriously? How many of you think this way? Just curious because I don't know if this is one of those "the minority voice speaks louder" things or the majority really think it's a hate thing.

But... seriously?

Maybe I'm naive but what has the world done to you to make you think so bleak?

maybe not in that mindset, but he probably did stereotype the guy like people do with blacks. And because he dress differently , I'm sure it make the situation worst. And if he panicked, would he panick if a white, clean-shaven deaf person carrying a knife?

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy57

Why should cops use taser guns instead of real guns?

what happened to deaf people with CI?

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

maybe not in that mindset, but he probably did stereotype the guy like people do with blacks. And because he dress differently , I'm sure it make the situation worst. And if he panicked, would he panick if a white, clean-shaven deaf person carrying a knife?

Any reasonable-minded person would automatically think a man with a fixed-blade knife on his hand is a threat - regardless of race and clothing style.

Even in a gun-friendly state where everybody is free to carry guns on their holsters or over the sling... it is suspicious and threatening if somebody is holding the loaded gun on his hand, walking on the street.

**Daredevel7** · 09-09-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

And if he panicked, would he panick if a white, clean-shaven deaf person carrying a knife?

Um... yes? Wouldn't you?

Are you seriously telling me that if a guy comes up to you, carrying a knife in his hand with the blade out in the open, you wouldn't blink twice if he looks preppy enough?

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:16 PM

actually, no, because I've seen artists used knives on the street to carve. but they usually carry it with a bundle of other stuffs. it depends. If someone is using a knife to prune bushes, you wouldn't feel threatened.

Maybe he keep it out to start carving

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

actually, no, because I've seen artists used knives on the street to carve.

ok but normally - the artist would be sitting and carving something - that's easy to tell.

now how about a man walking toward you with a knife on his hand?

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:30 PM

if he pointed at me, yes. If he carrying it with a bunch of art supplies along with it, no.

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

if he pointed at me, yes. If he carrying it with a bunch of art supplies along with it, no.

ok but that is... too obvious. That is not exactly what we asked and that isn't what happened here either.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:34 PM

But that's what she said.. He was carrying a board for carving

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

But that's what she said.. He was carrying a board for carving

where? we're talking about a knife on the hand.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:43 PM

sorry, I keep thinking about this guy who came to our store to show off his woodworking. a cane actually. he too carried an opened pocket knife show us his work (outside becaue it is messy) . We didn't feel threatened at all. as we knew what he was doing. but he was walking around with it.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

where? we're talking about a knife on the hand.

he was carrying both.

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

sorry, I keep thinking about this guy who came to our store to show off his woodworking. a cane actually. he too carried an opened pocket knife show us his work (outside becaue it is messy) . We didn't feel threatened at all. as we knew what he was doing. but he was walking around with it.

ok but you know that John was not at the store, showing off his statue. He was walking on public street with fixed blade knife on his hand and he did not respond to officer's repeated commands to drop the knife.

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

he was carrying both.

with a deadly weapon on his hand, nothing else matters.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 03:59 PM

don't forget, he was carrying a wooden board as well, it's in the article. It it a three inch folding knife. Same thing what this guy was carrying around our store.

deafgal001 · 09-09-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm glad you brought that point up. It's a common annoyance for us gun carriers. People whined to us that we should shoot at arm or leg so that nobody will die.

well - the way I see it... you should never EVER EVER shoot if he isn't a 100% threat. Either he is a threat or not.. period. If he's not a 100% threat... then don't even shoot at all. Using gun to injure or threaten someone... this kind of person does not deserve to carry a gun. That's the code we go by.

If my gun is pointed at someone - it's shoot to kill. 100% threat. 100% lethal. That's the cardinal rule. It's the serious responsibility that we armed citizens/officers hold.

Be sure to remember that when you have a son and he too made mistake of carrying a knife in the open.

**Smithtr** · 09-09-2010, 07:41 PM

that is sad!!!! very really pretty seems sad!!

**Jiro** · 09-09-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgal001

Be sure to remember that when you have a son and he too made mistake of carrying a knife in the open.

I am the son too and I don't make this kind of mistake of carrying a knife in the open.

darkage · 09-10-2010, 01:37 AM

John Williams was doing on Doll's Head.....

Let you see some story at Seattle Police Shoot and Kill Whittling Man « JONATHAN TURLEY

DDU · 09-10-2010, 11:28 AM

this is not an unfamiliar story - police shoot knife wielding suspect. people are always complaining that the police should shoot to wound or taz the suspect. big problem is that a lot of people want to hurt police and the police know this so they are naturally on edge when a weapon is held by someone. it sucks yeah , but the law is there and people need to be responsible. the same thing when you are pulled over by police in your car- put your hands on the steering wheel until the police talk to you. always regard a police officer as a man/woman with a loaded gun and you will be fine.

**Jiro** · 09-10-2010, 01:30 PM

DDU - that reminds me of this incident where the cop was forced to shoot the knife-wielding teenager (16 years old) in Wisconsin. The boy survived.

Teen stable after police shooting | wisconsinrapidstribune.com | Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune

the cop was yelling at him to drop the knife and then all of sudden, the teen charged toward him with a knife.

YouTube - Wisconsin Rapids police officer shoots teen wielding knife

yizuman · 12-23-2010, 03:20 AM

They finally released the tape from the killer's squad car...my god, what an asshole cop. The deaf Indian never had a chance....

YouTube - Police Brutality: Deaf Woodcarver Murdered By Cop In Cold Blood! (RAW)

Here's an excerpt directly from the YT page...

Quote:

Ian Birk, 27, who joined the department two years ago, was on patrol Monday afternoon when he saw John T. Williams crossing Boren Avenue at Howell Street carrying a folding knife and a piece of wood.

The officer pulled his cruiser over and approached Williams, police officials said. Police say Birk ordered him to drop the knife three times before he fired five shots from a distance of nine to 10 feet killing him. The knife was found closed http://www.komonews.com/news/local/10...

Initial reports by the police were that the man advanced on the officer with the knife; however, the department on Tuesday said it could no longer be sure that occurred.

Sean Whitcomb, the police department's spokesman, said Wednesday that the department was looking for additional witnesses to the shooting or anyone who might have been with Williams earlier in the day.

Birk has been placed on routine administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

Alex Castas, general manager of Ye Olde Curiosity Shop on the Seattle waterfront, said his shop has been buying carvings from Williams' family for five generations, stretching back to the 1880s, when the shop used to buy from tribal members paddling up in canoes.

He said he had known Williams for 15 years, and never known him to be violent, though he often knew Williams to be incoherent because of drinking.

"I can definitely see a scenario where John had been drinking and it is taking him a while to focus exactly on what is going on; I could see him tripping more than I could see him lunging."

It was the same for Chaney Haney and Julie Reisman, co-owners of Glo, a restaurant on Capitol Hill where Williams sold his work, and liked to sit on the bench outside on the sidewalk, carving.

"I wonder if the officer knew he was hard of hearing; he told me he could not hear out of one ear," Haney said. "If it was my guess, I would just say he was standing there and the officer was trying to get his attention and John didn't hear him."

Reisman said Williams was slow on his feet, and difficult to communicate with.

"He is not a lucid person. You can't have a coherent conversation with him. You say, 'How is it going?' and he will start talking about something that has nothing to do with here and now," Reisman said. "There was a real disconnect there between what he was receiving and what he was putting out."

Going to the page URL as mentioned above...

Quote:

SEATTLE -- A series of photos is shedding new light on the shooting death of John T. Williams by police fire.

Williams, a Native American wood carver, was shot dead in August by Officer Ian Birk.

The photos, many of which were taken by a camera in Birk's patrol car, shows Williams crossing the street, then Birk walking in front of his cruiser.

Birk has said he shot Williams after he refused to obey his command to put down a knife. But some say the pictures, which show Williams' knife in the closed position, tell a different story.

"Remember the very first thing that we saw was the picture of the knife wide open that the police department put out," said Tim Ford, attorney for the Williams family. "And we know now that, as we've shown here, that the knife was closed."

The evidence was released to the public when Ford included them in a motion he filed in court.

Birk's attorney, however, objects to the significance of the photos.

"I think that the problem of what we're facing here now is with these leaks and the disclosures is that it seems to be aimed at coloring people's perception of the event," said Ted Buck.

Ford, however, claims that wasn't his intention.

"No, I want the judge to see it because we have heard about this finding of the shooting review board. But that has not been given to us," he said.

The Seattle Police Department took Birk's badge and gun in response to the findings of the department's Firearms Review Board.

Ford attached other evidence to his motion, including Birk's statement. Birk told investigators he "was struck with an immediate fear for" for his life. He said he ordered Williams to drop the knife a third time, but Williams refused to comply. That's when Birk said he decided to open fire as Williams was in close range and could attack if he chose to do so.

An inquest into the shooting is slated to begin at the King County Courthouse next week. And in the wake of the newly-released evidence, Buck believes seating an impartial jury will prove difficult.

"I'm afraid it's going to ruin the inquest process," Buck said. "And the citizens of Seattle deserve a fair inquest. Officer Birk deserves a fair inquest."

As you all can see, his pocket knife which is legal in Seattle as the deaf Indian pretty knows what the law states regarding knife lengths that he can legally carry and use as he's been a wood carver for all of his life and he goes back 5 generations from his bloodline of wood carvers.

As to the pocket knife in of itself, it is closed. It was never opened when he was shot. On top of that, Officer Birk testified that his knife was open, but the evidence photo at the "crime scene" says otherwise.

Police released this "official photo" showing the knife to be open, a claim they're trying to say backs Officer Birk...

Now it's all come to light, Birk lied and it cost him his job from within the review board.

This 2nd year Rookie ****ed up. He ****ed up big time. If you'll look at the killer's body language on YT, right at 7:38, you'll see his body language that he's realizing he ****ed up. A body language I've personally seen all too often.

Now Birk is trying to get his job back...good luck with that, killer. It's too bad that killer won't see the prison walls as he has gotten away with murder.

Yiz

**Foxrac** · 12-23-2010, 04:01 AM

I'm seriously doubt that Ian Birk can get his job back and damage has been done.

**Jiro** · 12-23-2010, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

They finally released the tape from the killer's squad car...my god, what an asshole cop. The deaf Indian never had a chance....

YouTube - Police Brutality: Deaf Woodcarver Murdered By Cop In Cold Blood! (RAW)

Here's an excerpt directly from the YT page...

Going to the page URL as mentioned above...

As you all can see, his pocket knife which is legal in Seattle as the deaf Indian pretty knows what the law states regarding knife lengths that he can legally carry and use as he's been a wood carver for all of his life and he goes back 5 generations from his bloodline of wood carvers.

As to the pocket knife in of itself, it is closed. It was never opened when he was shot. On top of that, Officer Birk testified that his knife was open, but the evidence photo at the "crime scene" says otherwise.

Police released this "official photo" showing the knife to be open, a claim they're trying to say backs Officer Birk...

Now it's all come to light, Birk lied and it cost him his job from within the review board.

This 2nd year Rookie ****ed up. He ****ed up big time. If you'll look at the killer's body language on YT, right at 7:38, you'll see his body language that he's realizing he ****ed up. A body language I've personally seen all too often.

Now Birk is trying to get his job back...good luck with that, killer. It's too bad that killer won't see the prison walls as he has gotten away with murder.

Yiz

ah..... another case of testilying....

09-09-2010, 07:41 PM	#83 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,680	that is sad!!!! very really pretty seems sad!! __________________

09-10-2010, 11:28 AM	#86 (permalink)
DDU Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: north east Posts: 804	this is not an unfamiliar story - police shoot knife wielding suspect. people are always complaining that the police should shoot to wound or taz the suspect. big problem is that a lot of people want to hurt police and the police know this so they are naturally on edge when a weapon is held by someone. it sucks yeah , but the law is there and people need to be responsible. the same thing when you are pulled over by police in your car- put your hands on the steering wheel until the police talk to you. always regard a police officer as a man/woman with a loaded gun and you will be fine. __________________ when in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

12-23-2010, 04:01 AM	#89 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,594	I'm seriously doubt that Ian Birk can get his job back and damage has been done. __________________ In Moto We Trust

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09-09-2010, 03:16 PM	#71 (permalink)
deafgal001 Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,542	actually, no, because I've seen artists used knives on the street to carve. but they usually carry it with a bundle of other stuffs. it depends. If someone is using a knife to prune bushes, you wouldn't feel threatened. Maybe he keep it out to start carving

09-09-2010, 03:30 PM	#73 (permalink)
deafgal001 Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,542	if he pointed at me, yes. If he carrying it with a bunch of art supplies along with it, no.

09-09-2010, 03:34 PM	#75 (permalink)
deafgal001 Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,542	But that's what she said.. He was carrying a board for carving

09-09-2010, 03:43 PM	#77 (permalink)
deafgal001 Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,542	sorry, I keep thinking about this guy who came to our store to show off his woodworking. a cane actually. he too carried an opened pocket knife show us his work (outside becaue it is messy) . We didn't feel threatened at all. as we knew what he was doing. but he was walking around with it.

09-09-2010, 03:59 PM	#81 (permalink)
deafgal001 Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,542	don't forget, he was carrying a wooden board as well, it's in the article. It it a three inch folding knife. Same thing what this guy was carrying around our store.

09-10-2010, 01:37 AM	#85 (permalink)
darkage Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,717	John Williams was doing on Doll's Head..... Let you see some story at Seattle Police Shoot and Kill Whittling Man « JONATHAN TURLEY