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Unread 08-26-2010, 10:42 AM   #121 (permalink)
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it is true that deaf schools have kids with other disabilities, but that is not the majority of students in california. Plus, those kid's don't test (they are exempted) so they aren't pulling the averages down.
Actually, it's when you have students with significant cognitive disabilities who are unable to take the CST are exempted from that. Instead they get tested using the California Alternate Performance Assessment (CAPA).
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Unread 08-26-2010, 10:46 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Error. Not working.
should be, hmm
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Unread 08-26-2010, 10:48 AM   #123 (permalink)
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it is true that deaf schools have kids with other disabilities, but that is not the majority of students in california. Plus, those kid's don't test (they are exempted) so they aren't pulling the averages down.
Actually, it's when you have students with significant cognitive disabilities who are unable to take the CST are exempted from that. Instead they get tested using the California Alternate Performance Assessment (CAPA).
right, so kids with multiple disabilities are NOT included in the 90% "far below" at california schools for the deaf.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 10:50 AM   #124 (permalink)
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right, so kids with multiple disabilities are NOT included in the 90% "far below" at california schools for the deaf.
Kokonut mentioned cognitive disabilities, not multiple disabilities. Multiple disabilities could be referred to any students who are wheelchair-bound, CP, Ushers Syndrome, etc.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:02 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I think it is a systemic problem coupled with hearing people in power who haven't the slightest idea about deafness/culture or didn't/don't give a fig. This becomes much more visible in bad economic times. Take CA, for example: Students come from many home school districts, right? The school district must pay 10% of the cost of educating the students going to Riverside or Fremont, ok.....this began over 30 years ago and down thru time, these school districts slowly "wised up" and decided they could establish their own deaf program and not pay the State to allow the student to go to Riverside or Fremont. You can imagine the results.....anyway, it became increasingly obvious that whenever the school district determined a student wasn't educable, then and only then would they allow them to go to Riverside or Fremont. So slowly, over time, the students we were getting changed the face of what once was a great school in Riverside.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:04 AM   #126 (permalink)
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thats what i covered in my 'tube
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:08 AM   #127 (permalink)
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I made this video a while ago... May as well share it because I share the same thing in this thread.
YouTube - Deaf Think Tank Team Introduction
It's working now. Had to restart my laptop. For some reason it was hanging up on any videos to be played.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:20 AM   #128 (permalink)
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It's working now. Had to restart my laptop. For some reason it was hanging up on any videos to be played.
O.K.
Thank You For Sharing.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:22 AM   #129 (permalink)
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are we really going to ignore the elephant in the room about bi-bi education? These kids are learning and using one language as their fluent, native, first, and primary language and being tested in a totally different language. No one thinks that could be contributing to the low scores?
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:28 AM   #130 (permalink)
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are we really going to ignore the elephant in the room about bi-bi education? These kids are learning and using one language as their fluent, native, first, and primary language and being tested in a totally different language. No one thinks that could be contributing to the low scores?
Actually, they should be learning at least one language at home to start with.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:30 AM   #131 (permalink)
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are we really going to ignore the elephant in the room about bi-bi education? These kids are learning and using one language as their fluent, native, first, and primary language and being tested in a totally different language. No one thinks that could be contributing to the low scores?
Well, if you are talking about Riverside, let's get a real bi bi program in place first and then wait 20 years for replication, testing and all that to see how well it has worked. Theoretically, I think it is a great idea but if you have a general idea of the mechanics of this, it appears utopian but hey, don't let me stop ya, folks.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:36 AM   #132 (permalink)
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are we really going to ignore the elephant in the room about bi-bi education? These kids are learning and using one language as their fluent, native, first, and primary language and being tested in a totally different language. No one thinks that could be contributing to the low scores?
Actually, they should be learning at least one language at home to start with.
yeah, and if you are headed to a deaf school, that language will be asl not english.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:39 AM   #133 (permalink)
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yeah, and if you are headed to a deaf school, that language will be asl not english.
I didn't say English nor ASL, just at least one language. Do you really expect the school to teach your children language? It's their job to refine it. It's your job to ensure the child is acquiring at least one language, not theirs.

Don't send your child to a school if it's not fluent in the main language at the school. It's irresponsible.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:53 AM   #134 (permalink)
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so you don't think that the fact that the kids are being tested in their second language is a factor? I disagree completely.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:54 AM   #135 (permalink)
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so you don't think that the fact that the kids are being tested in their second language is a factor? I disagree completely.
You're putting words into my mouth.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:55 AM   #136 (permalink)
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oh and all kids continue to learn language at school, everyday, not just deaf kids.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:57 AM   #137 (permalink)
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oh and all kids continue to learn language at school, everyday, not just deaf kids.
while they continue to learn it outside the school on a daily basis. Stop relying on the schools to do everything for your children. The parents need to start working with their children too.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 11:58 AM   #138 (permalink)
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If you want to talk about long term cost, well There are plenty of public school who neglect to teach deaf people because they were meant to use oral only approach. In the long term, Some of them end up in SSI because lack of education. And there's plenty who were success and still costing the govt money for captioning and even interpreting (they learned ASL late in life) . Once you hit adult world, The parents or the gov't isn't going to pay for the service deaf need concerning hearing aids/CI . Deaf people get discriminated base on how well they can hear and some of them get stuck on low paying jobs... hearing devices is costly. not everyone have $8,000-$10,000 hanging around when their warranty run out and they need a replacement. They have their own children to worry about. The sad thing is, if they go on like this, they may lose their speech ability because they can't hear themselves. You may say they can get medicaid to pay for it when they are older, but doesn't that just prove that CI is just as costly as ASL deaf?

I wouldn't be surprised if deaf oral-only use captionist for everything. they definitely will use it in college and courts. I don't think most want to take that risk especially in court.. and I think it is the same cost as ASL deaf (oral only deaf also use captel and tty/ip-relay service)

So to me, they both as just as costly.

But I do want the gov't to show respect for deaf parents (and hearing) if they want to raise their children as deaf and ASL, instead of looking at them from a medical perspective and feel that something need to be done.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 12:48 PM   #139 (permalink)
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oh and all kids continue to learn language at school, everyday, not just deaf kids.
while they continue to learn it outside the school on a daily basis. Stop relying on the schools to do everything for your children. The parents need to start working with their children too.
if this was directed at me it is laughable.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:07 PM   #140 (permalink)
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if this was directed at me it is laughable.
*shrugs*

What's so laughable about it? You're the one putting so much emphasis on the schools. Parents' roles in their children's lives are far, far more significant than the schools ever will be.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:15 PM   #141 (permalink)
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if this was directed at me it is laughable.
*shrugs*

What's so laughable about it? You're the one putting so much emphasis on the schools. Parents' roles in their children's lives are far, far more significant than the schools ever will be.
school is very important. If a student can not read by 12th grade school has failed them too.

Last edited by faire_jour; 08-26-2010 at 01:21 PM.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:15 PM   #142 (permalink)
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I thank my parents for providing an incentive by saying that if I read a book after bedtime, I can have an extra hour of light after bed time. They put encyclopedia in my bedroom and I read them ever since I was about 8 years old. Everyday when I went to bed, I reviewed in encyclopedia on what I've seen during the day.

Also when I got into trouble for any reason, my parents had me write 20-50 (depending on severity) words and definitions from dictionary on paper.

My parents also encouraged me to participate any academic competitions i.e. debating conferences, Vocational Industrial Clubs of America and other activities which helped me to build a STRONG resume that landed me a dream job of my life.

Parents are a KEY tool and role model to our educational growth. Without them, our views on schools become weaker and how can we enforce education with weak family support like that?
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:16 PM   #143 (permalink)
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school is very important. If a student can read by 12th grade school has failed them too.
Look at your own sentence, I'm not understanding that correctly.

"If a student can read by 12th grade, school has failed them too."
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:18 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Parents are a KEY tool and role model to our educational growth. Without them, our views on schools become weaker and how can we enforce education with weak family support like that?
Exactly.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:19 PM   #145 (permalink)
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school is very important. If a student can read by 12th grade school has failed them too.
Look at your own sentence, I'm not understanding that correctly.

"If a student can read by 12th grade, school has failed them too."
can NOT, sorry!
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:25 PM   #146 (permalink)
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I taught my 2 boys to read BEFORE they went to K school. They are now ahead of their age group, ready and eager to excel in what they can do. It is ALSO our responsibility to teach them morality, another KEY factor in succeeding in school. If we fail, school also will fail. If there is no teamwork, then we will not succeed.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #147 (permalink)
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school is very important. If a student can not read by 12th grade school has failed them too.
It's not only the school that teaches the child to read. I know of a LOT of people, myself included, that were taught by parents as well as teachers. That's been a big issue with teachers. Too many parents are relying on the teachers to prepare their child or children for the real world, when most of it is up to the parents. And that doesn't mean having the parent find yet another "teacher" or "tutor" to teach what the schools should not have to do. There are too many schools who are having to deal with all kinds of issues than what their original intentions were meant to be, such as teaching a child the basics of education. Basic skills should be started by the parent and kept up by the parent or guardian. not always the teachers.

If a child or student can't read by grade 12, it was not only the schools that failed them. It goes back to the old African Proverb "It takes a Village to raise a child."
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:58 PM   #148 (permalink)
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i have never said that it is only the school's responsibity. But i feel like you guys are saying it is only parents. If that is true why do kids go to school at all?
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Unread 08-26-2010, 02:04 PM   #149 (permalink)
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i have never said that it is only the school's responsibity. But i feel like you guys are saying it is only parents. If that is true why do kids go to school at all?
Do you think that's we're saying? Please, I only said to stop relying on the schools for everything. Geez.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 02:08 PM   #150 (permalink)
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i have never said that it is only the school's responsibity. But i feel like you guys are saying it is only parents. If that is true why do kids go to school at all?
You need serious educational work in understanding on what we are trying to say. NEITHER of us implied the same way on what you think we are implying. Remember what I said about TEAMWORK? What do "Teamwork" mean to you? Can you tell me what I am trying to imply?
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