The Last Stand for the Deaf in California - Page 3

**TXgolfer** · 08-26-2010, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Too bad about that school....at any rate, to compare it with residential isn't gonna work so....

I agree. I made a mistake there

**shel90** · 08-26-2010, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Times 10 (say from 2nd grade to 12th) would be $800,000 per student to get him or her graduated at possibly at a 4th grade comprehension level, too.

Are you saying all Deaf schools limit the students to read no higher than a 4th grade level?

**Jiro** · 08-26-2010, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Are you saying all Deaf schools limit the students to read no higher than a 4th grade level?

no. it's just showing you how much it costs to get them to 4th grade comprehension.

but I disagree with the statement. It's erroneously over-estimated.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Are you saying all Deaf schools limit the students to read no higher than a 4th grade level?

No, by the time they graduate they barely at the 4th grade reading comprehension level. And it's not just English, either.

STAR 2010 CST - Calif. School for the Deaf School, All Students

faire_jour · 08-26-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

No, by the time they graduate they barely at the 4th grade reading comprehension level. And it's not just English, either.

STAR 2010 CST - Calif. School for the Deaf School, All Students

WHOAAAAA! That chart shows that 90% of 11th graders are "far below" proficiency in English? That is horrible!

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:29 AM

And compare that with any non-deaf schools in the state. This is the same type of scores seen year after year after year.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

WHOAAAAA! That chart shows that 90% of 11th graders are "far below" proficiency in English? That is horrible!

Also, look up Fremont School for the Deaf as well.

**Banjo** · 08-26-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

WHOAAAAA! That chart shows that 90% of 11th graders are "far below" proficiency in English? That is horrible!

Well, you have to consider the fact there are several factors which play a role in a child's language development. Not just the schools, but the parents too as well.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:39 AM

Here's the Fremont one.

STAR 2010 CST - Cali. Sch. for Deaf - Fremont School, All Students

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

No, by the time they graduate they barely at the 4th grade reading comprehension level. And it's not just English, either.

STAR 2010 CST - Calif. School for the Deaf School, All Students

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

WHOAAAAA! That chart shows that 90% of 11th graders are "far below" proficiency in English? That is horrible!

I want to see a chart that shows the average of all hearing students, please. Nvm.. Found it.

faire_jour · 08-26-2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Well, you have to consider the fact there are several factors which play a role in a child's language development. Not just the schools, but the parents too as well.

But 90%? That can't be blamed on parents only. That is clearly a failure at a huge level. It clearly isn't working (and you can't say that ALL of them are oral failures, California has one of the highest rates of enrollment from the start as well as parents moving there specifically for the school.)

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 09:44 AM

But you guys need to remember - The deaf schools do get the bad seed from the public schools usually..

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But 90%? That can't be blamed on parents only. That is clearly a failure at a huge level. It clearly isn't working (and you can't say that ALL of them are oral failures, California has one of the highest rates of enrollment from the start as well as parents moving there specifically for the school.)

look at my last post, and take that to mind.

faire_jour · 08-26-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

I want to see a chart that shows the average of all hearing students, please. Nvm.. Found it.

And what is the 11th grade, "far below" percentage?

Found it....it is 15%

90 vs 15 is HUGE

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

And what is the 11th grade, "far below" percentage?

STAR 2010 CST - State of California, All Students

Thats for every student in the state

Tousi · 08-26-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

But you guys need to remember - The deaf schools do get the bad seed from the public schools usually..

That is spot on and I think the central issue. Anyone not understanding this, I will try to expand....

**Banjo** · 08-26-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

I want to see a chart that shows the average of all hearing students, please. Nvm.. Found it.

Been googling it... but here's what I have found so far.

National Assessment of Adult Literacy - NAAL. I know this isn't a study on the schools, but I think it's relevant to what you asked for.

National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) - Demographics - Overall

30 million Americans are only able to read below the basic level, 63 million are at the basic level. That's around 93 million Americans who aren't good readers. Only 28 million Americans are proficient readers while 93 million are intermediate readers.

55 percent in the basic population did not graduate from high school. That's a significant number. 21% had multiple disabilities, 20% were black, 39% were Hispanics. 44% weren't able to speak English before they started school.

Interestingly enough, only 9% of people with multiple disabilities account for the NAAL population compared to 15% for seniors, 12% for both black and Hispanics.

Interesting statistics.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Well, you have to consider the fact there are several factors which play a role in a child's language development. Not just the schools, but the parents too as well.

So, is Bi-Bi education a failure?

**Banjo** · 08-26-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But 90%? That can't be blamed on parents only. That is clearly a failure at a huge level. It clearly isn't working (and you can't say that ALL of them are oral failures, California has one of the highest rates of enrollment from the start as well as parents moving there specifically for the school.)

I attended a school for the deaf years ago. I can assure you that it was the parents who failed their children, not the schools. The teachers did what they could to help the children, but with the lack of participation from their parents, they couldn't do much.

My parents did everything they could to educate me in my early years and they succeeded at it. Otherwise, I wouldn't had gotten a scholarship for having the highest averages in the school.

Tousi · 08-26-2010, 09:53 AM

For what it is worth, did you know that, in the grocery business, all boxed goods, etc that give directions for preparing, etc their product is written for 4th graders?

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

I attended a school for the deaf years ago. I can assure you that it was the parents who failed their children, not the schools. The teachers did what they could to help the children, but with the lack of participation from their parents, they couldn't do much.

My parents did everything they could to educate me in my early years and they succeeded at it. Otherwise, I wouldn't had gotten a scholarship for having the highest averages in the school.

Exactly the same here.

**deafskeptic** · 08-26-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

STAR 2010 CST - State of California, All Students

Thats for every student in the state

If I were to add up the percentages under the 11 grade that falls into basic or below, that would mean that would mean that 57% of the students have basic or below basic skills in English.

Tousi · 08-26-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

So, is Bi-Bi education a failure?

No, although they liken themselves to utilizing Bi Bi, technically it hasn't gotten off the ground or if it has, it hasn't had time to prove its worthiness....

**deafskeptic** · 08-26-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

I attended a school for the deaf years ago. I can assure you that it was the parents who failed their children, not the schools. The teachers did what they could to help the children, but with the lack of participation from their parents, they couldn't do much.

My parents did everything they could to educate me in my early years and they succeeded at it. Otherwise, I wouldn't had gotten a scholarship for having the highest averages in the school.

Exactly. And kudos to your and PFH's parents for making sure both of you could read well.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

But you guys need to remember - The deaf schools do get the bad seed from the public schools usually..

And that's the data I've been looking for ever since. Percentages of students that came to the school at what age and for how long. Percentages of parents who are Deaf who send their Deaf kids to those schools versus percentages of parents who are hearing who send their deaf/hh kids to those schools. What are the percentages of teachers who are Deaf that run those classes versus those whose ASL are not a proficient? That's what I want to know before making any further analysis. Still, it doesn't look good.

**Banjo** · 08-26-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

But you guys need to remember - The deaf schools do get the bad seed from the public schools usually..

Oh, I can testify to that one. My school had a good number of them which really pulled down the averages among the students.

**deafskeptic** · 08-26-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

For what it is worth, did you know that, in the grocery business, all boxed goods, etc that give directions for preparing, etc their product is written for 4th graders?

I remember meeting one hearing woman who clearly couldn't read at first grade level when i worked as a packer.

kokonut · 08-26-2010, 10:01 AM

Bad seeds? Then that would mean those school would get about 80 to 90 percent of the "bad seeds" enough to pull down the scores?? That'd be getting a bit farfetched there. I still want to see the data (if any) on statistics and demographics. More details are needed.

**Banjo** · 08-26-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

And that's the data I've been looking for ever since. Percentages of students that came to the school at what age and for how long. Percentages of parents who are Deaf who send their Deaf kids to those schools versus percentages of parents who are hearing who send their deaf/hh kids to those schools. What are the percentages of teachers who are Deaf that run those classes versus those whose ASL are not a proficient? That's what I want to know before making any further analysis. Still, it doesn't look good.

Good luck trying to find a study on that one. They need to do a national study on this one because it's badly needed.

posts from hell · 08-26-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

And that's the data I've been looking for ever since. Percentages of students that came to the school at what age and for how long. Percentages of parents who are Deaf who send their Deaf kids to those schools versus percentages of parents who are hearing who send their deaf/hh kids to those schools. What are the percentages of teachers who are Deaf that run those classes versus those whose ASL are not a proficient? That's what I want to know before making any further analysis. Still, it doesn't look good.

Its quite apparent that you haven't spent a semester or so at a deaf school.
The bad seeds I am speaking of is these "trouble kids", these with multiple disabilities, or severely mentally challenged.

08-26-2010, 09:29 AM	#66 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	And compare that with any non-deaf schools in the state. This is the same type of scores seen year after year after year. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

08-26-2010, 09:39 AM	#69 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Here's the Fremont one. STAR 2010 CST - Cali. Sch. for Deaf - Fremont School, All Students __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

08-26-2010, 10:01 AM	#88 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Bad seeds? Then that would mean those school would get about 80 to 90 percent of the "bad seeds" enough to pull down the scores?? That'd be getting a bit farfetched there. I still want to see the data (if any) on statistics and demographics. More details are needed. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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08-26-2010, 09:44 AM	#72 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,433	But you guys need to remember - The deaf schools do get the bad seed from the public schools usually..

08-26-2010, 09:53 AM	#80 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 15,798	For what it is worth, did you know that, in the grocery business, all boxed goods, etc that give directions for preparing, etc their product is written for 4th graders?