Schools for deaf, blind find support in Topeka hearing

sara1981 · 07-30-2009, 01:27 AM

Schools for deaf, blind find support in Topeka hearing
Schools for deaf, blind find support in Topeka hearing

Quote:

Gay Jones watched her daughter Danielle become “more and more unhappy” and reclusive while attending public school in Blue Springs, Mo.

Although the school district had a program to help Danielle, who is deaf, it was difficult for her to communicate with her classmates and teachers and to develop intellectually in that learning environment, Jones said.

Jones sold her home and moved to Olathe so Danielle could attend the Kansas School for the Deaf.

“My daughter made a complete turnaround overnight,” Jones said.

Jones was one of several people who testified Monday before the Facilities Closure and Realignment Commission in Topeka.

The committee, established by former Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, is examining the possible closure or merger of several facilities around the state, including the Kansas School for the Deaf and Kansas School for the Blind in Kansas City, Kan.

Jones is hard of hearing and is learning to sign in American Sign Language.

“We love Olathe and the fact that there are people who can communicate and interact with us when we go somewhere,” she said.

She wants the committee to keep the school open and in Olathe.

Although Commission Chairwoman Rochelle Chronister told the audience the committee was more likely looking at realignment or other improvements rather than closure, those testifying wanted to make sure the committee understood the importance of the School for the Deaf and its cultural ties to Olathe.

“Olathe embraces its large deaf population,” said Ruth Ann Hackler a longtime Olathe residents. “Interpreters sign at public meetings, some church services, most forums as well as school productions.”

Hackler, when she was a state legislator, helped find funding to build Emery Hall, which is for preschool- and elementary-aged children on the school’s campus. She also dealt with educational issues for 22 years as a member of the Olathe school board, she said.

“What a shame it would be to eliminate this beautiful campus overlooking the heart of downtown Olathe,” Hackler said.

Commissioner Nile Dillmore, 92nd District House representative, said the problem is how to justify keeping both schools open on separate campuses when the schools serve a limited number of students in the state and a limited amount of state funding is available.

“The cost of having the facilities is higher than the need,” he said.

Kansas Secretary of Administration Duane Goossen told the commission that the state could balance its budget if revenue forecasts hold true. And that was only possible because Gov. Mark Parkinson recently approved $160 million in budget reductions and allotments and the state received federal stimulus money. Funds from the Federal Recovery Act will disappear, however, in the next three year years, making it more difficult for the state, Goossen said.

The state is looking at a deficit of $220 million to $230 million when federal dollars dry up in 2012, Goossen said.

The loss of federal dollars and a steady decline in state tax revenues has the state looking at every agency and school in the state.

Robert Maile, superintendent of the School for the Deaf, said one can’t view the school just by its numbers. Several of the children who attend have multiple disabilities and other deaf children only can flourish in such an environment.

Although national studies show no academic difference between a student who attends a public school with a program that helps the deaf and a student who attends a deaf school, the difference is seen in leadership abilities, coping skills and other factors a person must possess to become successful, Maile said.

Kansas has 650 children certified as deaf or hard of hearing. The School for the Deaf has 136 students enrolled and serves 385 students statewide through various outreach programs and operates on a budget of $9.698 million for fiscal year 2010.

Madeleine Burkindine, superintendent for Kansas School for the Blind, said the students who attend her school are some of the state’s most severe cases—they are completely blind and need help learning, coping and adjusting to society.

Kansas has 1,000 children who are vision impaired—665 are legally blind and the remaining children have various degrees of visual impairment. The school serves 70 students during the regular term and 50 students during its summer session on a budget of $6.52 million for fiscal year 2010.

During the budget and building facilities portion of the hearing, some commissioners asked questions as too the possibility of combining the two schools and asked about available space on the two campuses.

The School for the Deaf has 17 acres, 12 for educational purposes and five for athletics. About 22,000 square feet is unused and available, Maile said. There also are a couple of smaller buildings, built in the 1920s, that could be razed, he added.

The School for the Blind resides on 9.56 acres in Kansas City, Kan. The school has no available space, Burkindine said.

There is a three-story cottage that the school only uses the first floor, but the second and third stories are structurally unsound, Burkindine said.

The commission is expected to make a recommendation on the two schools by Dec. 1 to Parkinson and the Legislature.

unbelieveables!!

***Brian*** · 07-30-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara1981

Schools for deaf, blind find support in Topeka hearing
Schools for deaf, blind find support in Topeka hearing

unbelieveables!!

What is unbelievable, sara1981?

I don't agree with the state's plans to consolidate the deaf campus with the blind campus. I believe this is like asking for trouble.

Should they decide to move to Kansas City (KS) it would be in the same metropolitan area (Kansas City, MO) that Olathe is located in. Kansas City (KS) is only like 20 miles/30 minutes drive from Olathe.

sara1981 · 07-30-2009, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

What is unbelievable, sara1981?

I don't agree with the state's plans to consolidate the deaf campus with the blind campus. I believe this is like asking for trouble.

Should they decide to move to Kansas City (KS) it would be in the same metropolitan area (Kansas City, MO) that Olathe is located in. Kansas City (KS) is only like 20 miles/30 minutes drive from Olathe.

im been natives Kansas in my lifes till my step-dad's death in June 2000 but i lives in Olathe,KS,Pittsburg,KS and Walnut,KS

im really dont agree with board when i was in deaf school and vacant my school to closed!! what bastard of board but i cant win but my deaf school still kept till whether when closed in further....

i didnt tell my mom about ksd got closed but im so lucky this school kept forever!!

shel90 · 07-30-2009, 07:51 AM

Gay Jones watched her daughter Danielle become “more and more unhappy” and reclusive while attending public school in Blue Springs, Mo.

Although the school district had a program to help Danielle, who is deaf, it was difficult for her to communicate with her classmates and teachers and to develop intellectually in that learning environment, Jones said.

Jones sold her home and moved to Olathe so Danielle could attend the Kansas School for the Deaf.

“My daughter made a complete turnaround overnight,” Jones said.

Need I say more?

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Kansas has 650 children certified as deaf or hard of hearing. The School for the Deaf has 136 students enrolled and serves 385 students statewide through various outreach programs and operates on a budget of $9.698 million for fiscal year 2010.

$18,614 bucks per kid. Reasonable but 74% are from outreach programs.

Quote:

Kansas has 1,000 children who are vision impaired—665 are legally blind and the remaining children have various degrees of visual impairment. The school serves 70 students during the regular term and 50 students during its summer session on a budget of $6.52 million for fiscal year 2010."

$93,142 bucks per kid (assuming max 70 students). Not so reasonable and all of them are in the school.

Quote:

Although national studies show no academic difference between a student who attends a public school with a program that helps the deaf and a student who attends a deaf school, the difference is seen in leadership abilities, coping skills and other factors a person must possess to become successful, Maile said.

While it's important to have leadership abilities, coping skills, etc, is it WORTH that much? And is it really GUARANTEED for a deaf kid to obtain all those skills even if they go to a deaf school?

souggy · 07-30-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

While it's important to have leadership abilities, coping skills, etc, is it WORTH that much? And is it really GUARANTEED for a deaf kid to obtain all those skills even if they go to a deaf school?

For argument sakes... I will give you a hearing person's perspective, about 40 years old, who got experienced with working with numerous Deaf adults. He normally hire ones that went to Deaf school because he said that for some reason the ones that go to regular schools "are socially inept."

* shrugs *

His words, not mine. Those who know what happen to mainstream kids would understand. I get what he is saying though since I never really had a lot of friends during high school.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

For argument sakes... I will give you a hearing person's perspective, about 40 years old, who got experienced with working with numerous Deaf adults. He normally hire ones that went to Deaf school because he said that for some reason the ones that go to regular schools "are socially inept."

* shrugs *

His words, not mine. Those who know what happen to mainstream kids would understand. I get what he is saying though since I never really had a lot of friends during high school.

Oh I agree with you. I am starting to meet a lot more deaf people and realized that some of those who learned sign later (initially went to oral school) are kinda socially inept.

I am not disputing the effect of being isolated in a school will most likely make you socially inept (I went to a college filled with nerds/geeks so believe me when I say I've had my fair share of the socially inept!) However, I was just saying is it worth it THAT much? To pay over 90k per kid just so that they might have fluid conversations in ASL and pick up social cues?

There is a difference between which is better if you are looking at only 1 specific thing and which is better if you look at the overall picture.

shel90 · 07-30-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Oh I agree with you. I am starting to meet a lot more deaf people and realized that some of those who learned sign later (initially went to oral school) are kinda socially inept.

I am not disputing the effect of being isolated in a school will most likely make you socially inept (I went to a college filled with nerds/geeks so believe me when I say I've had my fair share of the socially inept!) However, I was just saying is it worth it THAT much? To pay over 90k per kid just so that they might have fluid conversations in ASL and pick up social cues?

There is a difference between which is better if you are looking at only 1 specific thing and which is better if you look at the overall picture.

Aren't leadership qualities what employers look for? What about the effects on self-esteem? I had to go thru years of therapy to overcome my shame, obsession with becoming hearing, insecurities, and more. Again, these are people's lives were are talking about. Lives...just because we are deaf doesnt mean we arent entitled to the same rights as hearing children have in the educational setting.

Maybe our lives arent worth the money, I guess.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Aren't leadership qualities what employers look for? What about the effects on self-esteem? I had to go thru years of therapy to overcome my shame, obsession with becoming hearing, insecurities, and more. Again, these are people's lives were are talking about. Lives...just because we are deaf doesnt mean we arent entitled to the same rights as hearing children have in the educational setting.

Maybe our lives arent worth the money, I guess.

I'm being a total debbie downer, but MOST people's (deaf or not) lives aren't worth the money.

Are you saying that no matter how supportive the parents are and no matter how supportive the teachers are, as long a child isn't surrounded by ASL, s/he is more likely to go through what you did? So early intervention/parents don't even matter? As long to send 'em to deaf school, they will turn out alright?

At least 30-40% of the people I know (ALL HEARING) has gone through therapy at one point in their lives. Even I did. Self esteem is something no one can predict. I am a odd person, and in a hearing school, I am generally known as the deaf girl and I was in a cliche group with the weirdos, but maybe in a smaller deaf school, since I am on equal level with my peers, no one would like me because I am very strange and due to the smaller classes, there aren't other strange people like me. Or maybe I'll become a "popular" girl. Who the HECK knows where I would be happier in? My friend was MISERABLE during her high school years. She was severely depressed and wanted to go to another school, but her parents said "No! We are paying for you to go to this private school and you're getting the best education! You are STAYING." Low self esteem comes in all forms.

shel90 · 07-30-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'm being a total debbie downer, but MOST people's (deaf or not) lives aren't worth the money.

Are you saying that no matter how supportive the parents are and no matter how supportive the teachers are, as long a child isn't surrounded by ASL, s/he is more likely to go through what you did? So early intervention/parents don't even matter? As long to send 'em to deaf school, they will turn out alright?

At least 30-40% of the people I know (ALL HEARING) has gone through therapy at one point in their lives. Even I did. Self esteem is something no one can predict. I am a odd person, and in a hearing school, I am generally known as the deaf girl and I was in a cliche group with the weirdos, but maybe in a smaller deaf school, since I am on equal level with my peers, no one would like me because I am very strange and due to the smaller classes, there aren't other strange people like me. Or maybe I'll become a "popular" girl. Who the HECK knows where I would be happier in? My friend was MISERABLE during her high school years. She was severely depressed and wanted to go to another school, but her parents said "No! We are paying for you to go to this private school and you're getting the best education! You are STAYING." Low self esteem comes in all forms.

What's wrong with minimizing the risks of problems later? Give the children exposure to both. Have you read the book written by Gina Oliver, "Alone in the Mainstream"?

Alone in the Mainstream - A Deaf Woman Remembers Public School

In writing this important book, Oliva combined her personal experiences with responses from the Solitary Mainstream Project, a survey that she conducted of deaf and hard of hearing adults who attended public school. Oliva matched her findings with current research on deaf students in public schools and confirmed that hearing teachers are ill-prepared to teach deaf pupils, they don’t know much about hearing loss, and they frequently underestimate deaf children. The collected memories in Alone in the Mainstream add emotional weight to the conviction that students need to be able to communicate freely, and they also need peers to know they are not alone.

Not all deaf children will experience what I did but the risks are significantly higher for feelings of isolation, low self-esteem, physcho-social issues, and etc. Almost every deaf person I have met who were mainstreamed expressed that they wish they had exposure to ASL and other deaf people and at least half of them wished they had the experience of going to a deaf school. When one looks at the cost-effect of deaf schools, pls dont forget to include those factors. That's what I am trying to explain.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What's wrong with minimizing the risks of problems later? Give the children exposure to both. Have you read the book written by Gina Oliver, "Alone in the Mainstream"?

Alone in the Mainstream - A Deaf Woman Remembers Public School

Not all deaf children will experience what I did but the risks are significantly higher for feelings of isolation, low self-esteem, physcho-social issues, and etc. Almost every deaf person I have met who were mainstreamed expressed that they wish they had exposure to ASL and other deaf people and at least half of them wished they had the experience of going to a deaf school. When one looks at the cost-effect of deaf schools, pls dont forget to include those factors. That's what I am trying to explain.

No, I haven't read the book. I should check it out.

Some of deaf people that I've met here did try going to a deaf school 5-6-7th grade and hated it because they already learned what they were teaching and the students were apparently very immature. You said that those people WISHED they knew ASL and/or tried deaf schools, but they never actually DID. The deaf people I know actually did and didn't like it.

But then again there were some who were miserable in school until they went to a deaf school and loved it, so who knows? Maybe the people I know are in the minority....

Also, how come it hasn't occurred to anyone that maybe there is also a lack of teachers who know ASL in those schools? I have a deaf friend who is an ASL teacher and he has a really hard time getting interest in his classes, so his classes end up being canceled.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

In writing this important book, Oliva combined her personal experiences with responses from the Solitary Mainstream Project, a survey that she conducted of deaf and hard of hearing adults who attended public school. Oliva matched her findings with current research on deaf students in public schools and confirmed that hearing teachers are ill-prepared to teach deaf pupils, they don’t know much about hearing loss, and they frequently underestimate deaf children. The collected memories in Alone in the Mainstream add emotional weight to the conviction that students need to be able to communicate freely, and they also need peers to know they are not alone.

You added this later. See the bolded above. Your solution is "keep deaf schools then!" nothing to do with preparing teachers to teach deaf pupils (don't we have to do that anyway for deaf schools?) nor using deaf teachers to help out. There's gotta be more ways.

shel90 · 07-30-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

You added this later. See the bolded above. Your solution is "keep deaf schools then!" nothing to do with preparing teachers to teach deaf pupils (don't we have to do that anyway for deaf schools?) nor using deaf teachers to help out. There's gotta be more ways.

I am lost to what you are trying to say.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I am lost to what you are trying to say.

Just saying that there are other ways to improve a deaf child's education. Why focus only on getting deaf kids to go to deaf schools?

deafdyke · 07-30-2009, 10:30 PM

Actually Daredevil, the blind school's costs are a) due to the fact that there are a ton of multihandicapped kids there. It's very rare for the disabilty to exlcusively be blindness. It costs more to educate a multihandicapped kid then it does to educate a "plain vanilla blind kid."
As well as the fact that the costs of dorms are included in the cost of educating a kid at a specialized school.
I think they need to keep the two schools seperate. The needs of the two populations are totally different.

Daredevel7 · 07-30-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Actually Daredevil, the blind school's costs are a) due to the fact that there are a ton of multihandicapped kids there. It's very rare for the disabilty to exlcusively be blindness. It costs more to educate a multihandicapped kid then it does to educate a "plain vanilla blind kid."
As well as the fact that the costs of dorms are included in the cost of educating a kid at a specialized school.
I think they need to keep the two schools seperate. The needs of the two populations are totally different.

I agree but easier said than done. I think they should at LEAST share the building in order to share the cost of the facility costs but have different wings? I think they do that for the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind. Same place (or at least area?) but different sections.

shel90 · 07-31-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Just saying that there are other ways to improve a deaf child's education. Why focus only on getting deaf kids to go to deaf schools?

Because children would have full access to communication, language, the curriculm without the risks of falling behind, smaller classrooms, be around other deaf peers, more exposure to deaf adults, and direct communication with anyone at all times without needing a terp. Where else would children have the opportunity to have all that?

Do you honestly believe that all deaf children will have the same rights and acces as their hearing peers in mainstreamed programs?

However, I am realistic..I know that not all children will have the opportunity to attend deaf schools due to different factors. It would be nice, though. Wishful thinking on my part.

Daredevel7 · 07-31-2009, 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=shel90;1383872]
Do you honestly believe that all deaf children will have the same rights and acces as their hearing peers in mainstreamed programs?
[QUOTE]

PFFT. I dont even believe most deaf ADULTS have the same rights/access as their hearing peers.

shel90 · 07-31-2009, 10:52 AM

[quote=Daredevel7;1383922][QUOTE=shel90;1383872]
Do you honestly believe that all deaf children will have the same rights and acces as their hearing peers in mainstreamed programs?

Quote:

PFFT. I dont even believe most deaf ADULTS have the same rights/access as their hearing peers.

Right, but we already have language and knowledge to stand up for our rights. We CAN do something about it. These are children still learning. When it comes to education and learning, to me nothing else can compare to it, IMO.

Daredevel7 · 07-31-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

When it comes to education and learning, to me nothing else can compare to it, IMO.

Seems like the national studies say the deaf kids in deaf programs are on par with those in deaf schools in terms of education.

It's really only the social aspect. In your opinion, is the social aspect worth having state schools for a small class? What about deaf camps and so on? To me, it doesn't have to be as black and white as "MUST HAVE DEAF SCHOOLS". Options should be available and more reasonable than state deaf schools.

shel90 · 07-31-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Seems like the national studies say the deaf kids in deaf programs are on par with those in deaf schools in terms of education.

It's really only the social aspect. In your opinion, is the social aspect worth having state schools for a small class? What about deaf camps and so on? To me, it doesn't have to be as black and white as "MUST HAVE DEAF SCHOOLS". Options should be available and more reasonable than state deaf schools.

It is so much more than that. From my training and experience, it isn’t about giving them just only social skills. It is about putting them in an environment that allows them to develop those skills exactly the same way that hearing kids develop them through interaction with their peers and teachers.

07-30-2009, 07:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
shel90 In a pink and black world Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the land of the free Posts: 24,051 Blog Entries: 3	Gay Jones watched her daughter Danielle become “more and more unhappy” and reclusive while attending public school in Blue Springs, Mo. Although the school district had a program to help Danielle, who is deaf, it was difficult for her to communicate with her classmates and teachers and to develop intellectually in that learning environment, Jones said. Jones sold her home and moved to Olathe so Danielle could attend the Kansas School for the Deaf. “My daughter made a complete turnaround overnight,” Jones said. Need I say more? __________________ Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

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07-30-2009, 10:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 7,495	Actually Daredevil, the blind school's costs are a) due to the fact that there are a ton of multihandicapped kids there. It's very rare for the disabilty to exlcusively be blindness. It costs more to educate a multihandicapped kid then it does to educate a "plain vanilla blind kid." As well as the fact that the costs of dorms are included in the cost of educating a kid at a specialized school. I think they need to keep the two schools seperate. The needs of the two populations are totally different.

07-31-2009, 10:15 AM	#18 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 1,937	[QUOTE=shel90;1383872] Do you honestly believe that all deaf children will have the same rights and acces as their hearing peers in mainstreamed programs? [QUOTE] PFFT. I dont even believe most deaf ADULTS have the same rights/access as their hearing peers.