Reba

I know that retired veterans who use VA hospitals are required to use all third party insurances first before they use the VA. When I turn 65 I will have to use Medicare at the VA before they will allow me to use Tricare or VA. If VA knows that you are old enough for Medicare, they will cover only the part beyond what Medicare covers. Just a few days ago the military pharmacy made me get forms to fill out that prove I'm not yet on Medicare. Otherwise, they can refuse service to me.

Maybe that isn't technically being "forced" to use Medicare but....

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TXgolfer

It's what I said.



Glad you have a plan....many don't. Also, most people consider 12.4% of their income (10.4 currently) to be a significant amount of money and would want it back...If you don't that is your right. *shrug*

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Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

Jiro

a feeble attempt to hide inconvenient truth about charity programs, eh?

that should be really of no concern to you if they're bad with money. As you've always said - "not my problem."

ah.... that gimme gimme gimme attitude....

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rolling7

Same thing here. On my last hospital care, the hospital would not bill my insurance until I proved I did not have Medicare yet. That was a headache.

You and I are forced to pay into SS and Medicare, through deductions of our paychecks, and the money taken is ours but we can not get that money back without the systems "permission". The system is really not set up to take care of those hard workers whom pay into the system but to take care of those whom make none or little contributions.

Foxrac

because he is pathological liar.

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In Moto We Trust

Reba

Is that what you call expecting a return on your taxes? Do you think you should just shovel your money over to the Feds and get nothing in return? If you pay premiums for your insurance, don't you expect to get service for those premiums?

If you get into an accident with your motorcycle, do you call it a "gimme gimme gimme attitude" when you expect your insurance company to pay for your bike and medical expenses? Or do you consider that getting what you paid for?

Jiro

this is precisely what PPACA is going to take care of. Currently, the system does not take care of hard workers especially middle-class and now with PPACA in place... it will expand its coverage to those people. It's very silly that many hardworking middle-classes families pay into system and not get taken care of by the system when they can't afford health insurance.

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Jiro

but to have a "gimme gimme gimme" attitude aka self-entitlement is just plain dang silly. Either you're doing it right or wrong in order to maximize your tax return. It's not my problem nor my fault if people are clueless with tax and money.

well I don't expect anything from the Feds because I'm not in a poverty level and because of how the system is set up as.

well since I'm already paying premiums... I should be getting what I paid for and I certainly am getting what I paid for.

well I can afford such a privilege to get what I paid for.... and I'd like rest of people especially hardworking people to have a similar privilege from government... which is what PPACA is all about.

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Reba

Do you know some way to avoid paying Social Security/Medicare taxes?

It's not unearned self-entitlement if we've paid for it.


It has nothing to do with a poverty level. Unless you mean that you're rich enough to provide your own highways and army.

You don't expect Federal highways and bridges to be built and maintained? You don't expect a federally-funded military to protect you?


Exactly. That's the same for making Medicare payments. I've paid into that system since 1967.


I don't think it's a "privilege" to get Medicare.

Jiro

No I don't. That would be a tax evasion.

That's why I'm glad PPACA has passed so that we can get what we paid for.

I'm wondering how did it go from motorcycle example to highway/army example.

no. That's what Amendment 2 is for. It's up to citizens to protect themselves or wait for military.

all for more reason to support PPACA!

no it is not a privilege. A privilege I speak of is being able to afford a private insurance (and also thru my work) but ALL folks should be having an access to health insurance especially Medicaid but since it's a public service, they should not expect same quality and privilege that people with private insurance have. This is what many people get confused about.

Just because I pay taxes that funds my local police department doesn't mean I expect a Secret Service-like service from them. It's for everybody and if you want a better service, simple - get your own security team.... or get a gun.

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Reba

That's right. We are forced to pay for Medicare.

Those of us who paid for Medicare expect to get what we paid for, too.

Motorcycle insurance compared to Medicare insurance.

Federal taxes pay for federal services that everyone uses, regardless of poverty level (you brought up poverty level).

The military is a federal service, paid for by federal tax dollars. So, you do get the benefit of your federal taxes whether or not you are "poverty level." You can't refuse.

The Second Amendment, great as it is, isn't going to protect you from a foreign invasion. Or do you have an anti-aircraft gun on your roof top, and missile launcher in your back yard?


I'm talking about Medicare. Workers pay for it. They aren't given it.

Do you also have your own personal fire department and highway department?

Jiro

and we have been for past several decades... along with income tax and bunch of other taxes.

only if you're poor, disabled, and/or retired.

oic. well the difference is.... I choose my own insurance and it's a private service, not public.

right. I brought up poverty level because it's what it can cover. I don't have any problem paying taxes into welfare system to help those who needs it. I don't expect anything.

so..... what's the issue then?

still not seeing any relevance.

they will after reaching to retirement age.

my fire extinguisher.

my motorcycle.

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Reba

Don't you expect to see some results for your taxes?

People who pay into Medicare earn their Medicare. It's not a gift.


I'm not referring to welfare payments. I'm referring to the federal/national services that we all use.


You pay taxes for the services you expect to get in exchange. It has nothing to do with income level. Poor people and rich people both enjoy the protection of our military from foreign invasion, and the use of American interstate highways (as examples of federal funding).


No, it's not a "gift." It's not free. We paid for it.


You are too funny!

You can commute to work without using a highway, paved road, overpass, or bridge? You have a dirt path that directly connects your home to your work place?

TXgolfer

Most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Gimme gimme gimme would apply to taking from others.

I vote therefore I am concerned. When government operates unfairly that is a serious concern for me. These people were forced to pay money into the system. Pretty simple really.

And feeble attempt, meh. If someone is stupid enough to give extra money to a seriously flawed system in which the "board" (congress) can even borrow against that fund.... They are free to do that.

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Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

Jiro

I already am seeing the results of my taxes. I've got my paved road, police department, fire department and army.

never said it's a gift. I said they will earn their Medicare once they've retired... or disabled. or broke.

sounds like you want Universal Healthcare in place of our current healthcare system.

right. we all get the same quality of public service. you don't like it? simple - get a private service. got a problem with public service but can't afford private service? simple - run for office or write a letter to your congressman or raise awareness.

right. you will get it once you're eligible for it.

I try.

sure I can do that if I live in a place with unpaved road like in Midwest. My bike is designed for both road and dirt... a dual-sport bike.

and it's very simple - you don't like unpaved road? then move to somewhere else where it has paved road but you'll have to cough up more tax. and you don't like high tax and constant road construction? then move to somewhere else where it's cheap and don't care for paved road.

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Jiro

simple - move somewhere else like.... Canada

right. not my problem nor your problem if they didn't know anything about money and tax. You a big fan of Ron Paul or something?

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Reba

Which all have to be maintained with a constant tax flow.

Nope.

Never said that.

But can you right now? No. I'm talking about real life. You are dependent on federal tax dollars providing for your way to work.

But you don't, do you? You are using federally funded interstate highways, and locally funded secondary roads.

Jiro, you can't upset me today. I just had a PAH! moment on a computer problem that's bugged me for days. I'm just too happy.

Jiro

that's fine with me. what could be better for us is an improved efficiency and a reduction in wasteful/unnecessary spending so that we all can spend lesser tax than now for same thing.

good. then I'm not sure what's your issue with Medicare. You're making it sounds like you cannot get it when in fact you can if you're retired, disabled, or poor.

Yes I know you've never said that.

Yes I can.

So am I. There are many people who go to work on unpaved/poorly-maintained roads.

No I'm not dependent on federal tax dollars to pave the way for me. How and where I get to work is dependent on my choice of living.

I don't what?

right. because I chose to live around here and I pay silly high taxes for it. If I disagree, I can just simply move to somewhere more to my liking.

oh dear oh dear it was never my intention to upset you

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Foxrac

You don't have to pay FICA taxes if you have no job.

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In Moto We Trust

Reba

I never said that. I said it's not a matter of "gimme, gimme" greed but that it's earned by retirees.

From the front door of your house to the front door of your place of business you don't drive over any paved roads? Same for the places you shop, get gas, get bike maintenance, etc.? You use no paved roads?

But not all. Do you think the semi-trucks deliver your goods by driving on backwoods paths? Do the tanker trucks bring gas to your pumps on woodsy walk paths? If you have to go to the ER, do you want the ambulance to drive you over wilderness trails to the hospital?

If you never use any paved roads or bridges, then that's true. If you never use any products that are brought in by big trucks, then that's true. If you can fend off all foreign invaders by yourself, then that's true.

You don't live this way:

"... move to somewhere else where it's cheap and don't care for paved road."

You don't live in the unpaved wilderness.

That's my point. You do benefit from government paid for programs. That's not being "gimme, gimme." That's a reasonable expectation of getting services for your taxes. If you pay taxes, you expect to get something in return.

Reba

Retirees pay taxes on their pensions. TCS and I each have a chunk of money withheld from our Navy retirement checked every month.

Also, not FICA, but other taxes. Even though I'm not working, I pay personal property tax on my Jeep, and of course sales taxes. If neither of us was working, we'd still have to pay personal property taxes on TCS's vehicles, property tax on the house. Also, we pay taxes on our gas at every fill up. People also pay taxes on investments and savings.

But the main one we pay income tax on is our retirement pensions.

Jiro

right. retirees do receive it. so what's the problem in here then?

well almost half of my commute is on poorly-maintained road that would undoubtedly damage your Jeep tire/suspension

for people living in Alaska or somewhere in Midwest, yes.

an ambulance in boondocks? oh goodness! I hope they send in copter instead!

there you go. everybody has a choice to live in wherever they are and get used to what's available or provided for.

No I don't but I can if I want to... hence my life is not dependent on federal tax dollars to get to work. it would be illogical to live in an area if it's too hard to get to work.

Right. I've paid into system and I don't expect much in return. If I don't like public service, then I'll simply get a private service. That's just simply a life of being privileged. If I were poor, there are welfare system that can assist me. Our welfare system does need a major overhaul to better help people to get back on their own feet and to reduce frauds. The agency would need to improve its system to effectively investigate alleged freeloaders.

And there are people with "gimme gimme gimme" attitude simply because they paid into it and felt entitled to it. Just because you've paid into it doesn't mean it's yours whenever and however you want it. That's silly. You don't skip a line and expect us to make you happy with "customer's always right!" mentality like Walmart. So get back in the line and wait for your turn till you're called upon.

"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." -Rumsfeld

Don't like what army's got? feel free to join Blackwater.

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Jiro

I see that majority of your taxes are for your state.

there's one thing I strongly disagree with and believe it is unconstitutional - income tax.

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TXgolfer

Meh, I prefer to vote and fight for what is right as opposed to giving up and moving.

The money is their money.... They paid it in. To not return it is theft IMO.

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Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21


Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

Jiro

good luck. let me know how it goes.

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Reba

The point is, it's not a "gimme" attitude as you stated.

But at least you do have roads. How would your current commute be without any roads or overpasses or bridges or traffic lights?

Maybe for parts of the journey but for most of the trip the trucks use interstate highways.

[quote}an ambulance in boondocks? oh goodness! I hope they send in copter instead! [/quote]
They should have sent a copter for my SIL when he had his accident. He had an hour-long ride on bumpy roads in an ambulance, without pain killers. It was very bad.

Of course, copters can't land everywhere, and they're not available everywhere. That also brings up another federal agency--the FAA.


If our taxes didn't pay for transportation infrastructure, no one (including you) would have a choice.


[quote}No I don't but I can if I want to... hence my life is not dependent on federal tax dollars to get to work. it would be illogical to live in an area if it's too hard to get to work.[/quote]
Without the infrastructure, almost no one could travel.


It's not reasonable to believe that private services can cover everything.

I think the Federal government is involved in too many things but I also believe that there are some functions (as enumerated in the Constitution) that only the Federal government can and should do.

Even the privileged can't defend the entire country. Do the privileged have a fleet of ballistic submarines? Do the privileged have nuclear weapons? Do the privileged have war ships? Do they have squadrons of fighter and transport aircraft?

I never said that it was. I do expect the government to keep its word and use it for what was promised.

I don't know to what "line" you're referring. I'm in no hurry to get Medicare, that's for sure.

I never said anything about not liking what the Army has (whatever it is you're referring to).

As much as I boost Blackwater (I still prefer that name), they obviously can't provide our country with national defense.

Reba

The number of taxes are but the most dollars of taxes I pay are Federal.

I'm against income tax but I don't want to go to jail for it.

I prefer the Fair Tax.

But for now, we have to work with what we have.

Foxrac

Oh I see, for SS, if you make over $25,000 per year on SS so you have to pay income tax.

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In Moto We Trust

Foxrac

Well, you complained about that all time.

Move to Hong Kong - all you can care.

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In Moto We Trust

Reba

I don't know about the SS amount. I'm not old enough for that yet.

I haven't worked since February, so right now I'm to making anything.

My Navy retirement is nowhere near $25,000 per year but I pay income taxes on it every month.