What makes for a good teacher of the Deaf?

codaterp · 04-19-2011, 12:52 PM

I am struggling year after year watching TOD make decisions that will effect the future of our DHH students. I am a CODA and an educational interpreter. The stories of what my parents went through with their mainstreamed educational experiences makes me want to offer all of the students I come in contact with nothing but the best. There are many checks and balances in place for the interpreters, however I don't see any for the TOD. They make decisions for the students and write their IEP's. Most parents are hearing with little to no background and put all of their trust in the TOD to do what is right for their child. As hard as I try to offer opportunities to my DHH students, I am up against the hearing world with very little support from the "hearing" administration and TOD.
There are resources and information for parents concerning the educational interpreters that are working with their kids (ie. classroominterpreting.org), but I have yet to find any information or know of any system of checking the qualilfications of the TOD. Many of the TOD's that I have met barely know how to sign. Yet, these are the people determining what kind of educational goals a DHH child should have!
I realize that this does not apply to ALL TOD's. I have worked with wonderful teachers in the past. However, newer concepts in teaching and expectations from administration (ie. full inclusion) are isolating and destroying our children's opportunities for a solid education.
Thank you for the opportunity to vent my frustration here. I just want the best for all of my students.

deafdyke · 04-19-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

They make decisions for the students and write their IEP's. Most parents are hearing with little to no background and put all of their trust in the TOD to do what is right for their child. As hard as I try to offer opportunities to my DHH students, I am up against the hearing world with very little support from the "hearing" administration and TOD.

High five! That's basicly the problem..that most parents are hearing, and they really don't know all that much about Deaf Ed or they think it's just for voice off Deaf kids. And the thing is.......you're also fighting against TODs who were trained to think that hoh and CI kids don't "need" ASL and a hearing admin that wants to get away with providing minimal accomondations for minimal cost.

faire_jour · 04-21-2011, 01:07 PM

Wirelessly posted

here's my question, why do you think that you know better than parents and highly qualified teachers who spend years learning how to teach young deaf children?

your job is to interpret the message, that's it. That is all you are qualified to do. Your role does not include the study of child development, literacy, and all the rest that a TOD (who generally hold Master's degrees) does actually know.

just as it would be inappropriate for mainstream teacher to judge your interpreting skills, you do not have the knowledge to decide if a TOD is quailifed.

oh, and as a parent, i DO know the qualifications of the TODs who work with my child and i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

posts from hell · 04-21-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

here's my question, why do you think that you know better than parents and highly qualified teachers who spend years learning how to teach young deaf children?

your job is to interpret the message, that's it. That is all you are qualified to do. Your role does not include the study of child development, literacy, and all the rest that a TOD (who generally hold Master's degrees) does actually know.

just as it would be inappropriate for mainstream teacher to judge your interpreting skills, you do not have the knowledge to decide if a TOD is quailifed.

oh, and as a parent, i DO know the qualifications of the TODs who work with my child and i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

Just curious - Growing up have you ever had a stupid teacher?

jillio · 04-21-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Just curious - Growing up have you ever had a stupid teacher?

I would think the answer to that question would be obvious.

jillio · 04-21-2011, 01:42 PM

To the CODA OP:

I know how frustrating it is when you consistently see deaf students provided with services that are innappropriate, services that keep them socially isolated, and services that do not address their needs in the least. And it is especially frustrating when it happens because someone who is supposed to be educated and informed regarding these matters has a distorted view of deafness and the educational issues. These hearing TOD's who think they know what is best for the deaf have generally never taken the time or made the effort to actually ask a deaf adult what would have been useful for them in an educational setting when they were a child. They learn from other "hearing" experts and generally carry a very audist perspective.

Are all TOD's like this? Of course not. There are many excellent TOD's; the vast majority associated with deaf schools where they communicate with students one on one, the way it should be in an educational setting. Where you find the less than competent ones are in the mainstream, where a terp is necessary for any communication, and are part of a hastily put together and rarely reviewed program that was devised from an economic standpoint rather than the perspective of what is best for the student.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant on this topic. It is near and dear to me.

jillio · 04-21-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

here's my question, why do you think that you know better than parents and highly qualified teachers who spend years learning how to teach young deaf children?

your job is to interpret the message, that's it. That is all you are qualified to do. Your role does not include the study of child development, literacy, and all the rest that a TOD (who generally hold Master's degrees) does actually know.

just as it would be inappropriate for mainstream teacher to judge your interpreting skills, you do not have the knowledge to decide if a TOD is quailifed.

oh, and as a parent, i DO know the qualifications of the TODs who work with my child and i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

What makes you think the OP was targeting you with her post?

The CODA knows more about living with deafness and what is beneficial and what isn't than a TOD can learn from book. As for their training...what they know and what they are able to apply is dependent upon the theroetical perspective from which they were taught and the excellence or much left to be desired of the actual program.

Frisky Feline · 04-21-2011, 01:50 PM

=x

AlleyCat · 04-21-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

To the CODA OP:

I know how frustrating it is when you consistently see deaf students provided with services that are innappropriate, services that keep them socially isolated, and services that do not address their needs in the least. And it is especially frustrating when it happens because someone who is supposed to be educated and informed regarding these matters has a distorted view of deafness and the educational issues. These hearing TOD's who think they know what is best for the deaf have generally never taken the time or made the effort to actually ask a deaf adult what would have been useful for them in an educational setting when they were a child. They learn from other "hearing" experts and generally carry a very audist perspective.

All all TOD's like this? Of course not. There are many excellent TOD's; the vast majority associated with deaf schools where they communicate with students one on one, the way it should be in an educational setting. Where you find the less than competent ones are in the mainstream, where a terp is necessary for any communication, and are part of a hastily put together and rarely reviewed program that was devised from an economic standpoint rather than the perspective of what is best for the student.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant on this topic. It is near and dear to me.

To the bolded part: there are so many of us here, myself included, who could have written that exactly the same !! So frustrating.

**Reba** · 04-21-2011, 01:59 PM

There are some excellent TOD. One that I know personally is a CODA. We've worked together, so I've seen this teacher in action, and we've had discussions about the philosophy of teaching DHH students. He also picks my brain for my viewpoint of what the students experience when they move into the college experience.

I've also observed the good, the bad, and the ugly of what goes on in the mainstream classrooms. The excellent TOD are in the minority.

The educational backgrounds of TOD are not all equal, to say the least.

posts from hell · 04-21-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I would think the answer to that question would be obvious.

But wait!! You as a child don't have the creds or the job to determine that your teacher is stupid. Are you sure you can answer that with authority?

jillio · 04-21-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There are some excellent TOD. One that I know personally is a CODA. We've worked together, so I've seen this teacher in action, and we've had discussions about the philosophy of teaching DHH students. He also picks my brain for my viewpoint of what the students experience when they move into the college experience.

I've also observed the good, the bad, and the ugly of what goes on in the mainstream classrooms. The excellent TOD are in the minority.

The educational backgrounds of TOD are not all equal, to say the least.

Your first paragraph is an illustration of what should happen. There needs to be teamwork. The TOD can offer info that the terp can't, and the terp can offer info that the TOD can't because they observe the student from different perspectives. And when the TOD is also a CODA, there is another valuable perspective that should be included, as a CODA will recognize certain behaviors and nuances that might be missed from someone who does not have that experience. Parents also need to be encouraged to become informed and to participate, not just accept the word of the IEP team or the TOD. Or if they feel they are just not able to become involved to that degree, at least hire an advocate that is aware of all the issues.

Agreed on the educational background.

jillio · 04-21-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

But wait!! You as a child don't have the creds or the job to determine that your teacher is stupid. Are you sure you can answer that with authority?

Oh, yeah. Children know much more than they articulate.

They recognize stupidity and a false front very quickly.

BecLak · 04-22-2011, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

But wait!! You as a child don't have the creds or the job to determine that your teacher is stupid. Are you sure you can answer that with authority?

purplewowies · 04-22-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

Just because you do doesn't mean everyone does. There are kids who need Section 504 plans or IEPs for all kinds of reasons, and a lot of the time they either just don't get them (the school says they're "not qualified"--even when by law they are, the school is on board but the parent flat out denies/rejects it, or the parents (or the school, depending) just don't seek it out) or the school will write one up with whatever goals they want and an unknowing/ignorant parent will sign it, not knowing they can/should be included in the process.

**Reba** · 04-22-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

here's my question, why do you think that you know better than parents and highly qualified teachers who spend years learning how to teach young deaf children?

your job is to interpret the message, that's it. That is all you are qualified to do. Your role does not include the study of child development, literacy, and all the rest that a TOD (who generally hold Master's degrees) does actually know.

just as it would be inappropriate for mainstream teacher to judge your interpreting skills, you do not have the knowledge to decide if a TOD is quailifed.

oh, and as a parent, i DO know the qualifications of the TODs who work with my child and i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

I'm sorry that you see the TOD and terp relationship that way.

The optimal mainstream situation would be a team working together. That team should include (but not be limited to) the student, the TOD, the subject teachers, the interpreters, the principal, and, of course, the parents.

In an ideal situation, the TOD and terps should work together.

The terp's responsibility in a mainstream school setting is not just to mechanically convey the message. The terp is also a language facilitator, and anything that the terp observes that can be used to improve language acquisition should be incorporated into the child's program.

That doesn't mean the terp contradicts, overrides or ignores the TOD. As mature professionals they should be able to brainstorm together in a rational manner. Turf wars have no place in education.

(I realize that's the ideal. Personalities and politics do play a part in the real world.) For the child's sake, I hope the grown ups can overcome their clashes.

**shel90** · 04-22-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codaterp

I am struggling year after year watching TOD make decisions that will effect the future of our DHH students. I am a CODA and an educational interpreter. The stories of what my parents went through with their mainstreamed educational experiences makes me want to offer all of the students I come in contact with nothing but the best. There are many checks and balances in place for the interpreters, however I don't see any for the TOD. They make decisions for the students and write their IEP's. Most parents are hearing with little to no background and put all of their trust in the TOD to do what is right for their child. As hard as I try to offer opportunities to my DHH students, I am up against the hearing world with very little support from the "hearing" administration and TOD.
There are resources and information for parents concerning the educational interpreters that are working with their kids (ie. classroominterpreting.org), but I have yet to find any information or know of any system of checking the qualilfications of the TOD. Many of the TOD's that I have met barely know how to sign. Yet, these are the people determining what kind of educational goals a DHH child should have!
I realize that this does not apply to ALL TOD's. I have worked with wonderful teachers in the past. However, newer concepts in teaching and expectations from administration (ie. full inclusion) are isolating and destroying our children's opportunities for a solid education.
Thank you for the opportunity to vent my frustration here. I just want the best for all of my students.

I so know what you mean!!! I used to work for a deaf program at a public school. I had so many head butting episodes against the "hearing" adminstrations about how to meet the deaf children's needs. They were soooo clueless!

BTW, I was raised mainstreamed orally and my needs were definitely not met!

Vent all you want...many of us got your back!

deafdyke · 04-23-2011, 12:12 AM

faire joure, I think... No... I KNOW you don't understand that not all parents of dhh kids are as knowledgable about deaf education as you are. You actually lucked out.... You had the advantage of getting into the system early on.....A lot of parents get told "oh all they need is a general "easter seals" placement and then mainstream them....they don't need "deaf ed" ...You have NO clue how political educational placement even IS! You lucked out BIG TIME!

faire_jour · 04-23-2011, 05:14 PM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

faire joure, I think... No... I KNOW you don't understand that not all parents of dhh kids are as knowledgable about deaf education as you are. You actually lucked out.... You had the advantage of getting into the system early on.....A lot of parents get told "oh all they need is a general "easter seals" placement and then mainstream them....they don't need "deaf ed" ...You have NO clue how political educational placement even IS! You lucked out BIG TIME!

luck doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. Do you actually imagine for a moment that i haven't had to fight tooth and nail for every step along the way for my child? You are amazingly ignorant about the IEP process, and the role of parents in it. Why is that? Because you have zero experience & you make sweeping generalizations about EVERYTHING you talk about.

the longer i think about it, the angrier i get about your post. I hate your ignorance. Luck? Seriously? You don't think we have spent hundreds of hours researching, reading and studying about the needs of deaf children? Learning about language, literacy, phonics, phonemic awareness, asl and second language aquisition, bilingual and bimodial education. Spent long late nights researching appropriate goals and the manner of service delivery as well as placement that will help our kids reach those goals? That we have researched what appropriate language acquistion looks like, in whatever modiality that is, and every tiny step that it takes to get there.

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

luck doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. Do you actually imagine for a moment that i haven't had to fight tooth and nail for every step along the way for my child? You are amazingly ignorant about the IEP process, and the role of parents in it. Why is that? Because you have zero experience & you make sweeping generalizations about EVERYTHING you talk about.

the longer i think about it, the angrier i get about your post. I hate your ignorance. Luck? Seriously? You don't think we have spent hundreds of hours researching, reading and studying about the needs of deaf children? Learning about language, literacy, phonics, phonemic awareness, asl and second language aquisition, bilingual and bimodial education. Spent long late nights researching appropriate goals and the manner of service delivery as well as placement that will help our kids reach those goals? That we have researched what appropriate language acquistion looks like, in whatever modiality that is, and every tiny step that it takes to get there.

Good Lord, you make it sound like your child is chained to a treadmill, with tubes and wires, with charts and graphs being printed out with each agonizing step. Chill out and let your child be a child. We know how concerned you are but sometimes you take it a bit far, it seems. No offense intended.

**GrendelQ** · 04-23-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Good Lord, you make it sound like your child is chained to a treadmill, with tubes and wires, with charts and graphs being printed out with each agonizing step. Chill out and let your child be a child. We know how concerned you are but sometimes you take it a bit far, it seems. No offense intended.

Beowulf, I doubt FJ outsourced the long nights of research on language acquisition to the toddler. I suspect by "we" she meant herself and her husband. Although from what I've read, Miss Kat is pretty advanced, and may have taken on a few chapters

.

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 06:48 PM

A good Deaf teacher will have to invest multiple times the effort an impressive hearing teacher has to put in.

This is an amicable statement that doesn't need to be questioned, everyone knows this.

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

A good Deaf teacher will have to invest multiple times the effort an impressive hearing teacher has to put in.

This is an amicable statement that doesn't need to be questioned, everyone knows this.

That makes no sense. A good Deaf teacher should put in an equal effort for the students as a hearing teacher. It is the hearing world/attitude that makes it seem the way you claim.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

A good Deaf teacher will have to invest multiple times the effort an impressive hearing teacher has to put in.

This is an amicable statement that doesn't need to be questioned, everyone knows this.

Why??

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

That makes no sense. A good Deaf teacher should put in an equal effort for the students as a hearing teacher. It is the hearing world/attitude that makes it seem the way you claim.

Thank you.

If that is how society percieves me as a educator who is deaf then I will not put in an extra effort anymore. For what?

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

That makes no sense. A good Deaf teacher should put in an equal effort for the students as a hearing teacher. It is the hearing world/attitude that makes it seem the way you claim.

??
I'm talking about effort wise. An upcoming deaf teacher, who wants to be distinguished, just as a hearing teacher, has to to put in more effort to teach their class than a hearing teacher needed to.
When you have students who don't understand, you need to go over the material over with them.

The hearing educator has an easier time due to being able to work with group settings, than a case-by-case basis. Thus, they have less effort. Is this not realized?

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

??
I'm talking about effort wise. An upcoming deaf teacher, who wants to be distinguished, just as a hearing teacher, has to to put in more effort to teach their class than a hearing teacher needed to.
When you have students who don't understand, you need to go over the material over with them.

The hearing educator has an easier time due to being able to work with group settings, than a case-by-case basis. Thus, they have less effort. Is this not realized?

I will do what works for my class and students not what works for the hearing world.

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 07:28 PM

But I'm not referring to you, shel, I hope you aren't taking it that I'm singling you out.

I'm talking about when the assessment of education is based from an overall perspective through evaluation. Even the education in America, is uncontested and lower when we compare it with the education given overseas in other first world nations.

Their teachers puts in higher effort than ours do, and that results in higher knowledge than Americans. The same that a deaf would have to in order to teach efficiently compared to a hearing teacher, who has an easier case teaching a lecture of 100 students.

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

??
I'm talking about effort wise. An upcoming deaf teacher, who wants to be distinguished, just as a hearing teacher, has to to put in more effort to teach their class than a hearing teacher needed to.
When you have students who don't understand, you need to go over the material over with them.

The hearing educator has an easier time due to being able to work with group settings, than a case-by-case basis. Thus, they have less effort. Is this not realized?

The hearing teacher would be driven mad if forced to teach deaf students, whether case by case or in group settings. Is this not realized as well? We are talking about "good" teachers, are we not?
Pardon me for being confused, lol.

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

The hearing teacher would be driven mad if forced to teach deaf students, whether case by case or in group settings. Is this not realized as well? We are talking about "good" teachers, are we not?

Hmm, maybe you are seeing it in a different way. I'm basing "good" on the effort utilized by the educator.

04-19-2011, 12:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
codaterp Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5	What makes for a good teacher of the Deaf? I am struggling year after year watching TOD make decisions that will effect the future of our DHH students. I am a CODA and an educational interpreter. The stories of what my parents went through with their mainstreamed educational experiences makes me want to offer all of the students I come in contact with nothing but the best. There are many checks and balances in place for the interpreters, however I don't see any for the TOD. They make decisions for the students and write their IEP's. Most parents are hearing with little to no background and put all of their trust in the TOD to do what is right for their child. As hard as I try to offer opportunities to my DHH students, I am up against the hearing world with very little support from the "hearing" administration and TOD. There are resources and information for parents concerning the educational interpreters that are working with their kids (ie. classroominterpreting.org), but I have yet to find any information or know of any system of checking the qualilfications of the TOD. Many of the TOD's that I have met barely know how to sign. Yet, these are the people determining what kind of educational goals a DHH child should have! I realize that this does not apply to ALL TOD's. I have worked with wonderful teachers in the past. However, newer concepts in teaching and expectations from administration (ie. full inclusion) are isolating and destroying our children's opportunities for a solid education. Thank you for the opportunity to vent my frustration here. I just want the best for all of my students. jillio likes this.

04-21-2011, 01:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	To the CODA OP: I know how frustrating it is when you consistently see deaf students provided with services that are innappropriate, services that keep them socially isolated, and services that do not address their needs in the least. And it is especially frustrating when it happens because someone who is supposed to be educated and informed regarding these matters has a distorted view of deafness and the educational issues. These hearing TOD's who think they know what is best for the deaf have generally never taken the time or made the effort to actually ask a deaf adult what would have been useful for them in an educational setting when they were a child. They learn from other "hearing" experts and generally carry a very audist perspective. Are all TOD's like this? Of course not. There are many excellent TOD's; the vast majority associated with deaf schools where they communicate with students one on one, the way it should be in an educational setting. Where you find the less than competent ones are in the mainstream, where a terp is necessary for any communication, and are part of a hastily put together and rarely reviewed program that was devised from an economic standpoint rather than the perspective of what is best for the student. Thanks for the opportunity to rant on this topic. It is near and dear to me. AlleyCat, Buffalo, BecLak and 1 others like this.

04-21-2011, 01:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,225	=x Last edited by Frisky Feline; 04-22-2011 at 08:59 AM.

04-21-2011, 01:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,130	There are some excellent TOD. One that I know personally is a CODA. We've worked together, so I've seen this teacher in action, and we've had discussions about the philosophy of teaching DHH students. He also picks my brain for my viewpoint of what the students experience when they move into the college experience. I've also observed the good, the bad, and the ugly of what goes on in the mainstream classrooms. The excellent TOD are in the minority. The educational backgrounds of TOD are not all equal, to say the least. __________________ Tell us the truth about Benghazi!

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04-21-2011, 01:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
faire_jour Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,202	Wirelessly posted here's my question, why do you think that you know better than parents and highly qualified teachers who spend years learning how to teach young deaf children? your job is to interpret the message, that's it. That is all you are qualified to do. Your role does not include the study of child development, literacy, and all the rest that a TOD (who generally hold Master's degrees) does actually know. just as it would be inappropriate for mainstream teacher to judge your interpreting skills, you do not have the knowledge to decide if a TOD is quailifed. oh, and as a parent, i DO know the qualifications of the TODs who work with my child and i certainly participate in writing the goals, it is not someone else's job.

04-23-2011, 12:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,082	faire joure, I think... No... I KNOW you don't understand that not all parents of dhh kids are as knowledgable about deaf education as you are. You actually lucked out.... You had the advantage of getting into the system early on.....A lot of parents get told "oh all they need is a general "easter seals" placement and then mainstream them....they don't need "deaf ed" ...You have NO clue how political educational placement even IS! You lucked out BIG TIME!

04-23-2011, 06:48 PM	#22 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,161	A good Deaf teacher will have to invest multiple times the effort an impressive hearing teacher has to put in. This is an amicable statement that doesn't need to be questioned, everyone knows this.

04-23-2011, 07:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,161	But I'm not referring to you, shel, I hope you aren't taking it that I'm singling you out. I'm talking about when the assessment of education is based from an overall perspective through evaluation. Even the education in America, is uncontested and lower when we compare it with the education given overseas in other first world nations. Their teachers puts in higher effort than ours do, and that results in higher knowledge than Americans. The same that a deaf would have to in order to teach efficiently compared to a hearing teacher, who has an easier case teaching a lecture of 100 students.