What makes for a good teacher of the Deaf? - Page 2

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Hmm, maybe you are seeing it in a different way. I'm basing "good" on the effort utilized by the educator.

Ignore the score given by hearing educators when it comes to the Deaf. They are basing their grades and assumptions upon preconceived hearing perspectives, and I suspect that no deaf student is inherently "good" enough for them. That sounds brutal, I know. The best Deaf teachers I know are not giving more effort than the hearing teachers. Maybe it is just me, I dunno.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

But I'm not referring to you, shel, I hope you aren't taking it that I'm singling you out.

I'm talking about when the assessment of education is based from an overall perspective through evaluation. Even the education in America, is uncontested and lower when we compare it with the education given overseas in other first world nations.

Their teachers puts in higher effort than ours do, and that results in higher knowledge than Americans. The same that a deaf would have to in order to teach efficiently compared to a hearing teacher, who has an easier case teaching a lecture of 100 students.

I know you arent singling me out solely but are you saying that for deaf people to be recognized as distinguished teachers, we have to put twice or more than twice the effort? If so, I was questioning ..why? I dont care about getting "Teacher of the Year" Award that hearing people give out. I am not out to impress them. I am there to do my best for my students not for any hearing people. If I read you wrong, then my apologies.

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 07:50 PM

Really, that's pretty intriguing and interesting at the same time. This was the way I've always saw it, it wasn't just today, had this thought and discussion in the past.

I always pictured it as a scenario like this, we have general chemistry going on between a hearing mainstream class, and a Deaf class, both separated by rooms. Each class has 50 hearing, or 50 deaf students. Equal situations, both teachers being adept in their methods of communication.

over the course of an hour, I was pretty fixated to the idea that the mainstream teacher can get his/her material on a random subject like elimination reactions out faster than the Deaf teacher can, because of shortcuts to explain stuff like 'halide attacking' and 'substitution', or when talking of the change of a chemistry compound.. throw in a random one, C16H34O6 (just googled, and is called 3,6,9,12,15-pentaoxahenicosan-1-ol, lol).

It must sound like a ton of effort required for the deaf teacher to sign or explain that compound every single time. In order to circumvent that, I thought that the deaf teacher would have to print a handout prior to class for students to learn, or go over a brief method to shorten down complex names, unless they are signing the exact word or writing it down every single time (the hearing teacher likely just uses speech to name it, or draws a quick sketch of it while talking at the same time to reduce the amount needed to draw).

Does that kind of make more sense of what my thought is? I'd imagine a good Deaf teacher 'putting' more effort than a hearing teacher in this case to get the material out and understood between all learners in the class. Am I wrong?

**Bottesini** · 04-23-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I know you arent singling me out solely but are you saying that for deaf people to be recognized as distinguished teachers, we have to put twice or more than twice the effort? If so, I was questioning ..why? I dont care about getting "Teacher of the Year" Award that hearing people give out. I am not out to impress them. I am there to do my best for my students not for any hearing people. If I read you wrong, then my apologies.

I think he is saying deaf kids are harder to teach. Nothing to do with the teacher.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Really, that's pretty intriguing and interesting at the same time. This was the way I've always saw it, it wasn't just today, had this thought and discussion in the past.

I always pictured it as a scenario like this, we have general chemistry going on between a hearing mainstream class, and a Deaf class, both separated by rooms. Each class has 50 hearing, or 50 deaf students. Equal situations, both teachers being adept in their methods of communication.

over the course of an hour, I was pretty fixated to the idea that the mainstream teacher can get his/her material on a random subject like elimination reactions out faster than the Deaf teacher can, because of shortcuts to explain stuff like 'halide attacking' and 'substitution', or when talking of the change of a chemistry compound.. throw in a random one, C16H34O6 (just googled, and is called 3,6,9,12,15-pentaoxahenicosan-1-ol, lol).

It must sound like a ton of effort required for the deaf teacher to sign or explain that compound every single time. In order to circumvent that, I thought that the deaf teacher would have to print a handout prior to class for students to learn, or go over a brief method to shorten down complex names, unless they are signing the exact word or writing it down every single time (the hearing teacher likely just uses speech to name it).

Does that kind of make more sense of what my thought is? I'd imagine a good Deaf teacher 'putting' more effort than a hearing teacher in this case to get the material out and understood between all leaner in the class. Am I wrong?

Oh you are talking about TOD whether they are hearing or deaf who teach deaf children using ASL?

Not teachers who are deaf themselves?

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think he is saying deaf kids are harder to teach. Nothing to do with the teacher.

I think kids with language delays or deficits are the hardest to teach. I have taught deaf children who had no language delays nor deficits with their L1 language (ASL) and they were soooo easy to teach.

I dont know about teaching a classroom full of hearing kids as I have never done that so I cant make any judgements since I have nothing to compare with.

However, deaf kids who are fluent in their first language are so so so so much easier to teach than those with language delays or deficits which is why I get so frustrated with the oral-only method putting so many children at these kinds of risks. Uggggh!

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Really, that's pretty intriguing and interesting at the same time. This was the way I've always saw it, it wasn't just today, had this thought and discussion in the past.

I always pictured it as a scenario like this, we have general chemistry going on between a hearing mainstream class, and a Deaf class, both separated by rooms. Each class has 50 hearing, or 50 deaf students. Equal situations, both teachers being adept in their methods of communication.

over the course of an hour, I was pretty fixated to the idea that the mainstream teacher can get his/her material on a random subject like elimination reactions out faster than the Deaf teacher can, because of shortcuts to explain stuff like 'halide attacking' and 'substitution', or when talking of the change of a chemistry compound.. throw in a random one, C16H34O6 (just googled, and is called 3,6,9,12,15-pentaoxahenicosan-1-ol, lol).

It must sound like a ton of effort required for the deaf teacher to sign or explain that compound every single time. In order to circumvent that, I thought that the deaf teacher would have to print a handout prior to class for students to learn, or go over a brief method to shorten down complex names, unless they are signing the exact word or writing it down every single time (the hearing teacher likely just uses speech to name it, or draws a quick sketch of it while talking at the same time to reduce the amount needed to draw).

Does that kind of make more sense of what my thought is? I'd imagine a good Deaf teacher 'putting' more effort than a hearing teacher in this case to get the material out and understood between all learners in the class. Am I wrong?

Hmmm, interesting scenario. I am trying not to assume that the deaf students in that class are pretty well versed with the names of compounds being discussed in class, hah. At any rate, I imagine the Deaf teacher needing to just slow down enough to sufficiently give the information. That doesn't necessarily mean more effort, does it? Really, I don't know, so I am bowing out, lol.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Hmmm, interesting scenario. I am trying not to assume that the deaf students in that class are pretty well versed with the names of compounds being discussed in class, hah. At any rate, I imagine the Deaf teacher needing to just slow down enough to sufficiently give the information. That doesn't necessarily mean more effort, does it? Really, I don't know, so I am bowing out, lol.

I just taught the foundations of chemistry to my 5th graders a few months ago...it was pretty easy to teach because it was very visual.

***naisho*** · 04-23-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh you are talking about TOD whether they are hearing or deaf who teach deaf children using ASL?

Not teachers who are deaf themselves?

Yea, I'm talking about teachers who are teaching deaf classes, regardless if they are Deaf or deaf or hearing, how they have to put more effort to be a good educator compared at an equal pay with a hearing teacher. I'm talking about having to put in more effort for the students, the hearing teacher seems to have it easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Hmmm, interesting scenario. I am trying not to assume that the deaf students in that class are pretty well versed with the names of compounds being discussed in class, hah. At any rate, I imagine the Deaf teacher needing to just slow down enough to sufficiently give the information. That doesn't necessarily mean more effort, does it? Really, I don't know, so I am bowing out, lol.

Time = effort was the basis of my talk.

Maybe we see differently on it, but I am cool with you having your opinion. I'm just trying to say how I saw mine.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Yea, I'm talking about teachers who are teaching deaf classes, regardless if they are Deaf or deaf or hearing, how they have to put more effort to be a good educator compared at an equal pay with a hearing teacher. I'm talking about having to put in more effort for the students, the hearing teacher seems to have it easier.

Well, there is one thing for sure. We have to be fluent in two languages while hearing teachers of hearing kids dont.

For that alone, we should get paid more.

**GrendelQ** · 04-23-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Well, there is one thing for sure. We have to be fluent in two languages while hearing teachers of hearing kids dont.

For that alone, we should get paid more.

I thought special ed teachers, including TODs, general require additional education (another MA, a prof. certification or doctorate) to specialize in the area and start at a higher step/scale, and so usually do make more than your average classroom teacher with just one MA in a subject area like English, Spanish, or Math?

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

I thought special ed teachers, including TODs, general require additional education (another MA, a prof. certification or doctorate) to specialize in the area and start at a higher step/scale, and so usually do make more than your average classroom teacher with just one MA in a subject area like English, Spanish, or Math?

Nope, I make a lot less than the regular ed teachers in the public schools around here.

I dont know if special ed teachers get paid more than the regular ed teachers in the public schools.

**GrendelQ** · 04-23-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Nope, I make a lot less than the regular ed teachers in the public schools around here.

I dont know if special ed teachers get paid more than the regular ed teachers in the public schools.

Oh, you are at a private school? That's just wrong (the payscale, not the private school job

). I do think it's a more difficult job requiring greater expertise. The whole point of having TODs is to tap into that greater expertise.

Much as he loved the school, my husband made much less when he taught at a private Quaker school and had to look for something that paid more reasonably. I guess it's just the nature of the beast -- ironic, too, when parents are paying so much to send their kids to private schools.

**shel90** · 04-23-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

Oh, you are at a private school? That's just wrong (the payscale, not the private school job

). I do think it's a more difficult job requiring greater expertise. The whole point of having TODs is to tap into that greater expertise.

Much as he loved the school, my husband made much less when he taught at a private Quaker school and had to look for something that paid more reasonably. I guess it's just the nature of the beast -- ironic, too, when parents are paying so much to send their kids to private schools.

However, I dont think TODs get paid more in the public schools. My friend is a TOD at one and she said that she is on the same pay scale as the other teachers. I will need to ask her again.

deafdyke · 04-23-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

luck doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. Do you actually imagine for a moment that i haven't had to fight tooth and nail for every step along the way for my child? You are amazingly ignorant about the IEP process, and the role of parents in it. Why is that? Because you have zero experience & you make sweeping generalizations about EVERYTHING you talk about.

WTF? Sorry, but I have had DECADES of experiance both personally AND via friends who have kids in the system......and we're talking public school system. If you think it's hard getting accomondations or proper services in a Deaf School, you don't even WANT to know how bad it is in the public school....Yes, we get the idea that your Deaf School was bad in providing spoken language therapy. Yes, we realize you had a lot of trouble trying to get access to good oral schooling. That was just ONE area. I can guarntee you if Miss Kat had started out in an Easter Seals style placement (the way a LOT of kids with moderate or hoh style losses do) or a public school placement you would be ranting and raving about how crappy sped services are. You are lucky you started out in the deaf ed system!

jillio · 04-24-2011, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

WTF? Sorry, but I have had DECADES of experiance both personally AND via friends who have kids in the system......and we're talking public school system. If you think it's hard getting accomondations or proper services in a Deaf School, you don't even WANT to know how bad it is in the public school....Yes, we get the idea that your Deaf School was bad in providing spoken language therapy. Yes, we realize you had a lot of trouble trying to get access to good oral schooling. That was just ONE area. I can guarntee you if Miss Kat had started out in an Easter Seals style placement (the way a LOT of kids with moderate or hoh style losses do) or a public school placement you would be ranting and raving about how crappy sped services are. You are lucky you started out in the deaf ed system!

Let it go and consider the source, deafdyke. Another episode of defensiveness and all about me going on.

faire_jour · 04-24-2011, 08:57 AM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Quote:

luck doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. Do you actually imagine for a moment that i haven't had to fight tooth and nail for every step along the way for my child? You are amazingly ignorant about the IEP process, and the role of parents in it. Why is that? Because you have zero experience & you make sweeping generalizations about EVERYTHING you talk about.

WTF? Sorry, but I have had DECADES of experiance both personally AND via friends who have kids in the system......and we're talking public school system. If you think it's hard getting accomondations or proper services in a Deaf School, you don't even WANT to know how bad it is in the public school....Yes, we get the idea that your Deaf School was bad in providing spoken language therapy. Yes, we realize you had a lot of trouble trying to get access to good oral schooling. That was just ONE area. I can guarntee you if Miss Kat had started out in an Easter Seals style placement (the way a LOT of kids with moderate or hoh style losses do) or a public school placement you would be ranting and raving about how crappy sped services are. You are lucky you started out in the deaf ed system!

you have fought for a deaf school placement for yourself? I had no idea...

and again, it is not luck that my daughter has always been in deaf schools, it is because i made it happen. We didn't accept the public school placement they offered.

**Beowulf** · 04-24-2011, 10:09 AM

The more I think about it, the more I realize a good Deaf teacher has the ability to have the student visualize the lessons effectively. At least that was from my recollections.

***naisho*** · 04-24-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

The more I think about it, the more I realize a good Deaf teacher has the ability to have the student visualize the lessons effectively. At least that was from my recollections.

That's what I was talking about from the whole spinoff on TOD effort last night, lol. I thought some of you folks were against that and I was like

!!

**Beowulf** · 04-24-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

That's what I was talking about from the whole spinoff on TOD effort last night, lol. I thought some of you folks were against that and I was like

!!

I never said I was a rocket scientist. Just gimme time and I will have my moment of "Eureka!"

TheOracle · 04-24-2011, 10:17 AM

I always felt like whoever makes a good teacher of ___________ is one that busts their ass to make sure the students feel safe and respected in a rigorous academic environment with accessible material.

jillio · 04-24-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

The more I think about it, the more I realize a good Deaf teacher has the ability to have the student visualize the lessons effectively. At least that was from my recollections.

Absolutely.

TheOracle · 04-24-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

??
The hearing educator has an easier time due to being able to work with group settings, than a case-by-case basis. Thus, they have less effort. Is this not realized?

What hearing school are you talking about?

I'd love to teach children at the same skill and language level!

Actually, I'm getting out of teaching and into relative linguistics because of this. Too much paperwork. Overwhelming bureaucracy. Half of your time is babysitting. No emphasis on academics. bleeh

posts from hell · 04-25-2011, 02:42 AM

*chuckles*

TheOracle · 04-25-2011, 05:11 AM

*amused*

**shel90** · 04-25-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOracle

What hearing school are you talking about?

I'd love to teach children at the same skill and language level!

Actually, I'm getting out of teaching and into relative linguistics because of this. Too much paperwork. Overwhelming bureaucracy. Half of your time is babysitting. No emphasis on academics. bleeh

Yea, I have been thinking a lot about getting out of teaching as well.

**deafskeptic** · 05-02-2011, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Yea, I have been thinking a lot about getting out of teaching as well.

My little sister certainly did. She used to be a second grade teacher then she went to grad school and now she works for in the adminstrative section of thof Dept of Education.

keikogrusendorf · 06-07-2011, 09:26 PM

hearing or deaf teachers?

**Bottesini** · 06-07-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keikogrusendorf

hearing or deaf teachers?

What are you asking? In relation to what? TOD's can be either hearing or deaf.

04-24-2011, 10:17 AM	#51 (permalink)
TheOracle Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 1,491	I always felt like whoever makes a good teacher of ___________ is one that busts their ass to make sure the students feel safe and respected in a rigorous academic environment with accessible material. jillio and jdickins like this. __________________ In the confusion we stay with each other, happy to be together, speaking without uttering a single word. Question everyone. This is the Internet.

04-25-2011, 05:11 AM	#55 (permalink)
TheOracle Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 1,491	amused __________________ In the confusion we stay with each other, happy to be together, speaking without uttering a single word. Question everyone. This is the Internet.

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04-23-2011, 07:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,268	Really, that's pretty intriguing and interesting at the same time. This was the way I've always saw it, it wasn't just today, had this thought and discussion in the past. I always pictured it as a scenario like this, we have general chemistry going on between a hearing mainstream class, and a Deaf class, both separated by rooms. Each class has 50 hearing, or 50 deaf students. Equal situations, both teachers being adept in their methods of communication. over the course of an hour, I was pretty fixated to the idea that the mainstream teacher can get his/her material on a random subject like elimination reactions out faster than the Deaf teacher can, because of shortcuts to explain stuff like 'halide attacking' and 'substitution', or when talking of the change of a chemistry compound.. throw in a random one, C16H34O6 (just googled, and is called 3,6,9,12,15-pentaoxahenicosan-1-ol, lol). It must sound like a ton of effort required for the deaf teacher to sign or explain that compound every single time. In order to circumvent that, I thought that the deaf teacher would have to print a handout prior to class for students to learn, or go over a brief method to shorten down complex names, unless they are signing the exact word or writing it down every single time (the hearing teacher likely just uses speech to name it, or draws a quick sketch of it while talking at the same time to reduce the amount needed to draw). Does that kind of make more sense of what my thought is? I'd imagine a good Deaf teacher 'putting' more effort than a hearing teacher in this case to get the material out and understood between all learners in the class. Am I wrong?

04-24-2011, 10:09 AM	#48 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,516	The more I think about it, the more I realize a good Deaf teacher has the ability to have the student visualize the lessons effectively. At least that was from my recollections.

04-25-2011, 02:42 AM	#54 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,433	chuckles

06-07-2011, 09:26 PM	#58 (permalink)
keikogrusendorf Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Waco, TX Posts: 31	hearing or deaf teachers?