deafdyke

or at least increases in regional dhh programs? Granted they are death on out of district placements, BUT if they cut services like CPrint/CART or 'terps due to budget cuts then a lot of kids won't have access to learning in the mainstream, so they'll HAVE to go to a Deaf School or a regional program.

Deafness

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marcyp06

A lot of Deaf Schools are going through budget cuts too. Its going to get pretty messy I think.

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shel90

I hope so!

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jillio

You and me both Shel. Especially since students using CI s require some of the most expensive accommodations in the mainstream.

deafdyke

Really? Such as? I do have a feeling that a lot of the kids whose parents managed to get REALLY good mainstream accomondations, are going to be facing cuts. The stereotype of a CI kid is a minimal accomondations superstar, but most require a lot more extensive special ed interventions.

shel90

Tey require expennnnsssiiivvvveeeeeee materials just to function in the classroom.

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Beowulf

Or they'll be forced to do without and be on their own in the classrooms. Phooey.

deafdyke

Remember that mom who was all insistant that her kids who were doing AWESOME by ALL accounts were entitled to CPrint? I have a feeling a lot of those types of parents are in for a rude awakening.
I also wonder if a lot of oral OOD (out of district) placements will suffer b/c of this.
That sort of mainstreaming is illegal.....but then again I wonder if CI 504 Plan kids might get bumped off their plans.....Seriously I think mainstreaming and oral only is just an excuse to cheat kids out of a good education!

GrendelQ

Wow, its really discouraging to see an educator react in such a gleefully sneering way to the attempts by parents to get the best possible accommodations for their deaf children into the schools.

There are differences in how you accommodate a child with access to sound via a ci and a child using an ha or without aids, but i'm trying to figure out where you are finding the increased costs that children with cis incur for schools. Do the fm systems in use by CI students cost more than those in use by HA students? If bilingual, do ASL interpreters cost more if you have a CI than if you have an HA or no aid? Do CI students require more expensive carpeting than those with HAs?

I think budget cuts at schools would hurt placement at deaf schools: we rely on our local school to pay for my daughter's placement. They would save a great deal by mainstreaming her, and still comply with her iep, and yet we and they know she's getting a better education where she is. We have an advisor who told us to never let the discussion touch on money: the costs of placement in a deaf school far outpace even the most amazing accommodations we could get into a mainstreamed environment, including interpreters, ASL-fluent paras, slps, fm systems, etc. It's always got to be about providing the right educational environment for a child, regardless of cost and resources.

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GrendelQ

Hey, I think my child is doing AWESOME, too. That doesn't mean I don't want every possible means of making learning more accessible to her. Does using cprint or cart or an interpreter or an fm system mean you aren't doing great, whether you have a CI, an HA or not? Wouldn't you want your parents to fight for everything they could to make it possible for you to learn with ease? Doing so doesn't mean you aren't already doing awesome.

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AlleyCat

Then why so much opposition towards us for advocating for a full toolbox? "For everything they could to make it possible to learn with ease" ? I'm actually not singling YOU out because I know you have Li-Li learning ASL, English, and everything, but we get so much flak on this board for trying to ensure parents give their children EVERYTHING to make learning easier.

GrendelQ

I think you need to find someone who is opposed to full toolbox and ask that -- it's a good question. There are several people on this forum who don't believe that one or more of those tools in our box should be available to young children (CIs are one thing in particular that frequently meets with disapproval here, Cued Speech and SEE are others I've seen strike up some negative debate, ASL-only is another hot button, and there are a few who write about the negatives of HAs).

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Oceanbreeze

Here's a question to ponder (I guess for me, since I'm not exactly totally in the loop) and I'll post it to Grendel...

I am for a full tool box approach. I also know that a LOT of parents fight like HELL to get accomodations for their children. It's been going on since I was in school and on an IEP for my own disability. If you're lucky, you won't have as much of a fight, but a LOT of parents have to go to the wall on such things...

MY question: Exactly what accomodations does a child with a CI need? FM systems seem to be common. But, what else? Sounds fields are helpful, but, can you get that in a mainstream environment? Good acoustics in a classroom can also be difficult. Not every room is carpeted. So, what exactly happens?

Once a child is in the mainstream environment, acommodating them can be very difficult. How do you make it work? Can you make it work?

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GrendelQ

Hi Ocean, I think it's completely dependent on each individual child. Just like all children with HAs have no single uniform requirement for accommodations, same with CIs. There's a huge amount of variability -- especially if a child is implanted after 18 months, and many only have one CI, so they are dealing with some of the same issues as a child with unilateral hearing loss. About 25-30% of children with CIs don't need accommodations, but even if they can get by without, they should have them to be able to do their personal best rather than getting by. FM systems/soundfield are common. They make little difference to Li in her current small class, but might be very useful in a room with 28 loud kids. Acoustics is a big issue with CIs. Because they bring in sounds from outside the classroom (hallways, outside the windows, next rooms, etc.) just as loudly and clearly as the child right next to you, CIs can make you hear "too much." That's why rooms often have to be soundproofed to some extent to block anything from traffic noise to airconditioning units to chairs squeaking and scraping (and that's why you see tennis balls on the chair legs if carpeting isn't available).



Some of the more common accommodations are:

• Preferential seating
• Acoustic modifications (wall and/or ceiling tile, carpeting, drapes, etc.)
• Closed captions
• Copy of class notes/study guides
• Interpreter
• Communication notebook
• Specialists to address delays (many children are implanted late, after 18 months)
• Team meetings (for parents, school personnel, and/or outside providers)

And then there are all kinds of behavioral requests to the teachers you put in the IEPs:

• Face the class when speaking and get the student’s attention prior to speaking (make eye contact).
• Reduce auditory distractions such as background noise. Sound from sources such as a fan, or being close to a hallway door can be significant.
• Clearly enunciate. But don't over-exaggerate speech, or talk too slowly.
• Allow for extra time to process auditory information.
• Frequently check for understanding by asking open-ended questions.
• Use visual supplements (overheads, chalk board, real objects, pictures, charts, vocabulary lists, lecture notes or outlines, videos).
• Use captioning or scripts for TV, videos, movies.
• Repeat information that has been expressed by a person out of view or over an intercom or who is soft-spoken.
• Seat the group in a circle or horseshoe so the child will be able to see everyone taking in a group discussion.
• Point to the person who is talking, or call on them by name, so the student knows who or where to focus. Often, a child with a hearing loss takes a longer time to find the source of a sound, and will miss the beginning of the speaker’s comments.
• Repeat or rephrase comments or questions for the whole class before moving on to a new speaker.
• Foster understanding of what it means to be deaf among peers, and communication between the children
• Get to know each child's MAP, understand how and when to change programs (music class, a video, discussion, one on one, noisy environments) and how to adjust volume and sensitivity
• Learn how to do a listening check/ troubleshoot

But this is just general stuff. So much depends on what language a child uses (if ASL, you want instruction in ASL, not just an interpreter, if possible, and peers using the same language, etc.). Here is what AB recommends and what Cochlear suggests.

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Beowulf

[QUOTE=GrendelQ;1770213]

[*]Interpretor



Not to be finicky, but this is a misspelling.

GrendelQ

[quote=Beowulf;1770220] thanks -- that looks almost sinister, doesn't it?

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Beowulf

[quote=GrendelQ;1770221]Yeah, for a second it got me thinking they don't use interpreters much.

GrendelQ

[quote=Beowulf;1770223]Nah, that was just my typo, I was listing things off the top of my head and then poking through some of the docs I have on IEPs.

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Beowulf

[quote=GrendelQ;1770224]I am impressed. You have surpassed my knowledge.

GrendelQ

[quote=Beowulf;1770226]I highly doubt that , I just have many stacks of lists. And I've been fighting AGAINST this approach, so as they say, know your enemy.

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shel90

It was a joke..lighten up. Sometimes it is good to laugh at ourselves. I costed the school a lot of money with my FM system.

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ASLMommax2

Just had to say, with my daughter having a CI, she gets more "special" treatment with the lighting w/in hers classrooms due to migraines that she does for her CI. We've never requested special systems or classrooms - she receives Speech2x a week for only 30 minutes per session. If there is any cost that comes from my daughter it would the hour drive to school in her cab more so that her CI could ever be!

shel90

That's a question I have in my head as well.

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jillio

Of course. But the mom being referrred to was a hard core oralist who insisted that her children had never been in anything but an oral environment, functioned completely as hearing students, and did so because they were completely oral. She refused to recognize the fact that because accommodations were necessary, her children were far from functioning as hearing children.

jillio

Let's look at CART for instance. And many also require terps. Not to mention special ed teachers that are running the resource programs, the use of SLP's that are paid by the school district, etc.

jillio

I assume your daughter is still very young. I just want you to keep in mind that the need for accommodation increases as the student gets older.

ASLMommax2

Jillio, my daughter is an 8th grader - 14 years old. Has had her CI for 10 years - accomodations aren't neccassary, she is to bring the CI to what ever degree she may want - the ball belongs to her!

jillio

I see. Thanks for the information. I somehow got the impression that she was much younger.

It is great that she does not require accommodations, and it is also great that you have empowered her to have the call on this.

deafdyke

jillo, the reason she doesn't require accomondations is b/c she attends a Deaf School!
The "accomondations" are already built into the system in Deaf Ed!
And in addition, her kids were doing AWESOME under minimal accomondations......but b/c they weren't getting straight A's, she was whining that she wanted "cutting edge" accomondations for them. Almost like those parents who dx shop for some flimsy dx (ie difficulty with Gestault thinking) so their kid can get untimed tests and other accomondations?!?!

bbaseballboy123

I believe Clarke school for the deaf underwent budget cuts too.

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