Frisky Feline

I was focusing on you since you said you are one of them without ASL. but you did know some ASL. That is only i want to know. I dont care about successful. everyone can be successful either with or without asl. Or hearing people with limited function can be successful or not successful. *shrug*

Deafness

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jillio

But, the point that souggy is making is that it is not necessary in the U.S. to speak German in order to access school curriculum, or society. The same cannot be said for the signing deaf. He is correct. Your comparison is fallicious.

A

Most languages is for the hearing and speaking people. Sign Language is different. It's a language but a very unique type of language so some people can have a language at all. So it isn't like going from German to English.

kokonut

Unless you are actually living with your parents as an adult then I'd be inclined to agree.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

souggy

I am not talking about how many people there are.

Where is it important to know German?

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"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

kokonut

When you're in a German community.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

That statement makes absolutely no sense as a response to the comment souggy made.

souggy

I can see the need to learn English in a French-majority society like Quebec. Some of the Anglophones there don't know French, yet are still an important part of business in Montreal and neighbouring areas.

__________________
"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

jillio

Try to keep up, here, koko. Shall we sign it for you?

That is the whole point. This is not a German country, and it not necessary to speak German in order to access society and school curriculum.
That is why it is a fallicious comparison.

souggy

The constant need to prove to the hearing society and the Deaf World that you're independent acts in opposite of that.

If you really are independent, then you don't need to prove that to anyone.

__________________
"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

naisho

anecdotal evidence =/= documented reality and should not either.
In this case correlation does not equal to causation as a standard which obviously should not be imposed for others to follow.

You can suggest opinions, but that does not make it factual based on one experience.

Everyone knows this.

jillio

Sure.

jillio

Well, you would certainly think that someone with a claimed research background would know it, wouldn't you?

A

Some deaf rely on text, writing, etc. if not ASL to be successful

Like this: HOME - sComm Online

faire_jour

Yes, for the signing deaf, but not all deaf people use ASL. I was demonstrating that while knowing a particular language can be useful, does not define success.

Bottesini

Ubi-Duo?? I don't think that exactly took off, did it?

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kokonut

Naisho, understand the difference of a person asking if it's possible that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. All it takes is to have ONE example, and that was me. And it's a fact. I am walking proof that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. That's undeniable. Of course, people are now quibbling over the definition of the word "successful." Although I already added a caveat, which you seemed to have conveniently ignored, by stating that "it is an area that's quite subjective and several factors are involved in making it work." Secondly, the word "deaf" is broad and can include hard of hearing children who may have mild or moderate/severe hearing loss.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

It is still a fallicious comparison. And you have yet to define success. If not knowing ASL means that a deaf child cannot access the curriculum, nor society fully, and as a consequence ends up performing at an average level, when they have the potential to perform at a very well above average level, then how is that successful? It is settling for less than one is capable of because they have not been given the tool to live up to their potential.

jillio

Anyone with a research background would immediately ask for an operational definition of "success". The question is far too broad to be answered as stated. But one thing you have learned to do well, if not quite successfully, is back pedal.

kokonut

Oh, you'd be surprised.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Bottesini

Did it? I pretty much thought the high price put it out. And I have not seen one in a business or for public use.

__________________

kokonut

That's a different kind of success which allows one to successful communicate with hearing people. There are native ASL signers who user that communication device to help improve their successful interaction with hearing people. It makes good business sense in a lot of ways to do that.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

kokonut

Oh, again, you'll be surprised. Just because it's not in your area doesn't mean it's not growing or expanding.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

jillio

That is because the hearing are ASL impaired.

GrendelQ

I'm very happy for you that you have only made wise choices in your life and that your life and that of your child's are a model of success you think we all should emulate.

I believe that every family has a unique path to take and that there should be many, many options. That's one reason why I think the bill is a step forward. I can't stop you from making disparaging and cartoonish generalizations of anything that doesn't fit your own personal path, as you've done here, but the fact that you feel the need to mock and attack my choices is not constructive and has undermined any credibility you had in my eyes as a reliable voice of experience.

I would NEVER pass judgment on your approach to raising your child. You are welcome to hold the view that your child's deafness is something sad and terrible that you should be grieving about and readjusting your hopes and expectations around. But the idea that I need to adopt that same view or jeopardize my daughter's psyche is truly offensive to me. Perhaps 20 years ago you didn't have the choices I have, and as a hearing person you saw deafness as some negative, limiting factor. I didn't feel limited, and that feeling of having options predated any awareness of a CI as one possible option.

Your presumption at dispensing your own brand of uninformed armchair psychology -- laughable at best, but more often damaging -- is an exercise in irresponsible behavior. I'm appalled at an outstanding lack of empathy or sensitivity to there being anything more than the way you raised your child vs. some fantasy vision you have of how people raise 'hearing children' -- it's a sad example of a 'my way or the highway' mindset.

I have repeatedly and honestly admitted my emotional reaction to my daughter without denial: it's love, delight, excitement, enthusiasm, and so on, in the same positive vein. I don't lay away crying because she's deaf or changing my hopes and dreams for her and I don't see why it would benefit her for me to do so. I tailor everything about her upbringing to her unique needs and abilities, exactly as I always planned to.

Lacking any corresponding insight and wisdom, the roadmap you are shoving in my face is about as relevant as a 20 year old guide through a long-disused bicycle path to my daughter's journey throughout the world today.

faire_jour

Grendel, you are my hero, here, on your blog and CICircle! You are a brillant person, advocate for your child and a great mom. I wish the world of Li-Li's and Miss Kat's all had Grendel's for moms!

jillio

Your first sentence is so full of sarcasm and misrepresentation that I didn't even bother to read the rest of the post. The defensiveness speaks for itself.

jillio

Ahhh...CI Circle.

naisho

Appreciate you sharing your sentiments, it is noted.

Nevertheless questions regarding your experiences are still begging an answer, it appears we are intrigued by your stay at Gallaudet University. Why did you decide to choose that institution given the plethora of other predominant non-sign based schools?

I note that your residency is on the west coast, yet you had traveled across the country. There must have been some compelling notion to attend Gallaudet, had there not?

faire_jour

Why is a support group of parents funny? It is a great place to go for advice about a broken headpiece or what to do if the processor falls in the toliet, or what that funny H3 error message means after your audiologist's office is closed. Why is that funny to you?