Mainstream V Special School - Page 4

Lighthouse77 · 03-19-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEVO

Oh please.. Everyone knows that this world is messed up with full of judgement and prejudces. Nobody is prefect.

Sorry if I offended you the way if you think I'm judging, I was speaking from my experinces and what I have seen. So ge over with it.

I've seen differently so....

But you need to give me examples... and I'm not talking about education being oppressed because deaf culture can not grow under hearing ideals.

JoeyDeafNinja · 03-19-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEVO

Oh please.. Everyone knows that this world is messed up with full of judgement and prejudces. Nobody is prefect.

Sorry if I offended you the way if you think I'm judging, I was speaking from my experinces and what I have seen. So ge over with it.

true, NONBODY IS PERFECT. NOBODY IS NORMAL as well

jillio · 03-19-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDeafNinja

well reasons you were not happy to being mainstreamed is that you didnt give a chance to make a friend with hearing people. I am very happy here at Jl Mann, it is best mainstream school. I have good hearing friends. I dont care if I am only deaf. why you were unhappy there? cuz you "cant" make friends there? oh pssh

Knowing shel90 as I do, I can tell you that is an untrue statement. And it is extremely rude and self centered of you to make such a judgement against someone. Is that what they teach you in your hearing school...to be rude and intolerant?

jillio · 03-19-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEVO

Its nice. Ah i moved deaf school when i was little kid to full public school, I was pretty super happy and i owe to my parents and people who suggested me to, Because years later i saw same classmates who i grew up when i was kid in deaf school, I noticed that their education and social skill and knowledge was pretty different. Seems like they have more struggle with hearing world than i does because i learned to survive and function with hearing people very well. Even experienced more stuff. But the mainstream will be nicer. So that way kid have a deaf and hearing world in one ways but i cant answer about mainstream.

Before making a comparison of the quality of education in deaf vs. mainstreamed schools, you should really make sure that your English is a bit more up to par. It says something different about the education you received than you are claiming.

jillio · 03-19-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDeafNinja

Yeah!

. I wouldnt leave my friends for deaf school

Friends are more important than education? Let's see of any of those friends are around to help you when you are trying to find a job with sub par academic skills.

Lighthouse77 · 03-19-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Before making a comparison of the quality of education in deaf vs. mainstreamed schools, you should really make sure that your English is a bit more up to par. It says something different about the education you received than you are claiming.

The school and friends in mainstreamed usually don't say anything about your writing if you are deaf or HoH because they don't want to hurt your feelings.

In another boards, when people don't know your background, they constantly tell you go to grammar school and such. One person did know, but asked me why deaf people write everything in backward. She says even I do it often, and I had no idea what she is talking about. And I grew up oral-only too (I wasn't writing in ASL).

jillio · 03-19-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

The school and friends in mainstreamed usually don't say anything about your writing if you are deaf or HoH because they don't want to hurt your feelings.

In another boards, when people don't know your background, they constantly tell you go to grammar school and such. One person did know, but asked me why deaf people write everything in backward. She says even I do it often, and I had no idea what she is talking about. And I grew up oral-only too.

Yes, but the poster I was responding to keeps saying that mainstream ed is much better than deaf ed. The point I was making was that is not evident from his use of English writing skills.

Lighthouse77 · 03-19-2010, 08:32 PM

yes, I agree, it is not right for him to judge deaf school and deaf people's writing skills.

jillio · 03-19-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

yes, I agree, it is not right for him to judge deaf school and deaf people's writing skills.

We are on the same page!

**Bottesini** · 03-19-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes, but the poster I was responding to keeps saying that mainstream ed is much better than deaf ed. The point I was making was that is not evident from his use of English writing skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

yes, I agree, it is not right for him to judge deaf school and deaf people's writing skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

We are on the same page!

But I don't think this is how he started out here. He said he is happier and liked the mainstream better than deaf school, where he was until sixth grade.

He said he was better at it now than then.

And was immediately attacked.

Whether he is a great writer now should not matter. He may very well be much better than sixth grade.

jillio · 03-19-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

But I don't think this is how he started out here. He said he is happier and liked the mainstream better than deaf school, where he was until sixth grade.

He said he was better at it now than then.

And was immediately attacked.

Whether he is a great writer now should not matter. He may very well be much better than sixth grade.

But still not justification for stating that mainstream schools are better than deaf schools. It could also be said that deaf students are better at it now than they were then.

It wasn't intended as an attack. Simply a reminder that one needs to support statements that qualify as better or best.

**Bottesini** · 03-19-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

But still not justification for stating that mainstream schools are better than deaf schools. It could also be said that deaf students are better at it now than they were then.

It wasn't intended as an attack. Simply a reminder that one needs to support statements that qualify as better or best.

He said he liked it better. You were not his attacker.

Lighthouse77 · 03-19-2010, 08:42 PM

It seem to me he was comparing himself with his deaf friends. If he is happy being with hearing people, that's fine. But don't compare yourself to deaf people as if they don't have good education.

**sallylou** · 03-19-2010, 08:50 PM

Choosing a school for any individual is such a complicated decision that it's hard to generalize which type of educational environment is better. My hearing kid goes to an IB charter school that's great for him. Some students would be very unhappy there. It depends on the student's needs, personality, interests and goals. There is no "one size fits all" education.

jillio · 03-19-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

He said he liked it better. You were not his attacker.

Thanks for the clarification.

Lighthouse77 · 03-19-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Choosing a school for any individual is such a complicated decision that it's hard to generalize which type of educational environment is better. My hearing kid goes to an IB charter school that's great for him. Some students would be very unhappy there. It depends on the student's needs, personality, interests and goals. There is no "one size fits all" education.

That's fine, but the biggest problem is too many denial and negative thoughts about deaf school which is why many parents will not put their kids in deaf school when they feel they are not happy in oral/mainstreamed.

**sallylou** · 03-19-2010, 09:04 PM

Lighthouse, do these parents investigate the deaf schools? When a parent makes a decision, the parent has to consider all of the options, visit schools, look at test scores, speak to professionals and listen to current students and their parents, etc. If a parent doesn't make the effort to do this, how can she make an informed decision?

jillio · 03-19-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Lighthouse, do these parents investigate the deaf schools? When a parent makes a decision, the parent has to consider all of the options, visit schools, look at test scores, speak to professionals and listen to current students and their parents, etc. If a parent doesn't make the effort to do this, how can she make an informed decision?

Ohhh....truer words were never typed.

JoeyDeafNinja · 03-19-2010, 09:15 PM

okay I am sorry I attacked you guys

deafdyke · 03-20-2010, 12:53 AM

Joey, Actually I think the reason why you had a good experiance in the mainstream is b/c you had the foundation of Deaf education. That is how it should be.....start out in Deaf Ed, with TODs who are experianced with teaching kids like us.
I think if you'd started out in mainstream without having the foundation of Deaf ed, you would have had a much worse experiance.

faire_jour · 03-20-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Lighthouse, do these parents investigate the deaf schools? When a parent makes a decision, the parent has to consider all of the options, visit schools, look at test scores, speak to professionals and listen to current students and their parents, etc. If a parent doesn't make the effort to do this, how can she make an informed decision?

And, in my experience, parents do that, and many parents don't choose Deaf schools.

**shel90** · 03-20-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDeafNinja

well reasons you were not happy to being mainstreamed is that you didnt give a chance to make a friend with hearing people. I am very happy here at Jl Mann, it is best mainstream school. I have good hearing friends. I dont care if I am only deaf. why you were unhappy there? cuz you "cant" make friends there? oh pssh

No friends with hearing people?

yea right.

**Daredevel7** · 03-20-2010, 12:26 PM

I'd like to make a comment here. I recently visited a state school for the deaf. Granted, I was there just for one day, but in my experience, I would NEVER send my deaf child to that specific school. Most of the students were obviously very behind and they seemed to have low faith in their future. A few already talked about using SSI after graduation from high school!! I honestly have no idea where it comes from (parents or teachers) but I know that I do not want my child to be surrounded in that environment. Even though I had lots of fun by being able to communicate with everyone, it was just so depressing to be in that state of environment. Just because they teach in ASL should NOT make it an automatic choice for your deaf child.

Parents NEED to visit the schools to see how it is. It's that simple!

For my elementary school, my mom went to several schools, including some out of state for deaf schools, and decided a hearing but small private school was the best balance for me. Look at your child's abilities, and then choose. Not look at other children's abilities and then choose (just so that your child can become one of them).

**shel90** · 03-20-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'd like to make a comment here. I recently visited a state school for the deaf. Granted, I was there just for one day, but in my experience, I would NEVER send my deaf child to that specific school. Most of the students were obviously very behind and they seemed to have low faith in their future. A few already talked about using SSI after graduation from high school!! I honestly have no idea where it comes from (parents or teachers) but I know that I do not want my child to be surrounded in that environment. Even though I had lots of fun by being able to communicate with everyone, it was just so depressing to be in that state of environment. Just because they teach in ASL should NOT make it an automatic choice for your deaf child.

Parents NEED to visit the schools to see how it is. It's that simple!

For my elementary school, my mom went to several schools, including some out of state for deaf schools, and decided a hearing but small private school was the best balance for me. Look at your child's abilities, and then choose. Not look at other children's abilities and then choose (just so that your child can become one of them).

How many of those children were put in public schools first before transferring to the deaf schools after falling behind? I wouldnt be surprised if it was a high percentage of them.

Other factors to consider...did these children have full access to language during their formative years or have additional cognitive delays?

**Daredevel7** · 03-20-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

How many of those children were put in public schools first before transferring to the deaf schools after falling behind? I wouldnt be surprised if it was a high percentage of them.

Other factors to consider...did these children have full access to language during their formative years or have additional cognitive delays?

That's the thing... does that even matter for MY child?

Isn't that the same thing as asking about the kids in a school located in a bad area? Let's say that this school has a lot of kids who do very badly because of various reasons (poor families, need to work outside of school, etc), and let's just say that it so happens that most of them are hispanic and speak Spanish. Should I send my child to that school for the sake of preserving culture or a better school but more "whitey"?

I am not saying that it's the school's fault for how the kids are. Let's say that ALL of them DID come from public schools before coming to the deaf school. How does that change things? Do you STILL want to put your kids with them? That is my point. I am not talking about what we can do about deaf schools or changing deaf education or whatever. I am talking about RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, I have a deaf child, I look at that school, and I refuse to put my child there. And I'm willing to bet a lot of parents would do the same thing. Sad story, really.

(Btw, also want to clarify, I am talking about only one school that I visited. And of course, I am sure a lot of deaf schools isn't like the one I saw.)

Lighthouse77 · 03-20-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

A few already talked about using SSI after graduation from high school!! I honestly have no idea where it comes from (parents or teachers) but I know that I do not want my child to be surrounded in that environment. Even though I had lots of fun by being able to communicate with everyone, it was just so depressing to be in that state of environment.

And you think mainstreamed student don't think about this? Some of them do have a negative view of their future as well.

you know, My mom used to feel that way in deaf meeting. She says it was sooo depressing that she didn't want us to be exposed to that. She told me when I asked her if she ever went to one.. but at the same time when we got older, she had to hear it from us all the time.

**shel90** · 03-20-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

That's the thing... does that even matter for MY child?

Isn't that the same thing as asking about the kids in a school located in a bad area? Let's say that this school has a lot of kids who do very badly because of various reasons (poor families, need to work outside of school, etc), and let's just say that it so happens that most of them are hispanic and speak Spanish. Should I send my child to that school for the sake of preserving culture or a better school but more "whitey"?

I am not saying that it's the school's fault for how the kids are. Let's say that ALL of them DID come from public schools before coming to the deaf school. How does that change things? Do you STILL want to put your kids with them? That is my point. I am not talking about what we can do about deaf schools or changing deaf education or whatever. I am talking about RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, I have a deaf child, I look at that school, and I refuse to put my child there. And I'm willing to bet a lot of parents would do the same thing. Sad story, really.

(Btw, also want to clarify, I am talking about only one school that I visited. And of course, I am sure a lot of deaf schools isn't like the one I saw.)

I would put my deaf child at a deaf school because I dont want my child to suffer with not understanding what everyone is saying and gettting left out in social situations.Then I would volunteer some time with the other children and show them how to set and achieve goals. Someone needs to step up and it can take one person. I wouldnt mind doing it since I am so used to encouraging deaf children to do the best they can be.

Maybe you have a different view than I do.

**Daredevel7** · 03-20-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

And you think mainstreamed student don't think about this? Some of them do have a negative view of their future as well.

To be quite honest, I have no idea. I don't know that many mainstreamed kids, perhaps only 10-15 kids/adults, and I've never even heard of SSI/SSDI until I started to meet more Deaf people.

But then again, I didn't even know about VRS and IPrelay either.

**shel90** · 03-20-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

To be quite honest, I have no idea. I don't know that many mainstreamed kids, perhaps only 10-15 kids/adults, and I've never even heard of SSI/SSDI until I started to meet more Deaf people.

But then again, I didn't even know about VRS and IPrelay either.

Got one question..while growing up, have you ever heard of welfare?

Lighthouse77 · 03-20-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Got one question..while growing up, have you ever heard of welfare?

I don't think she have because she went to a private school.

03-19-2010, 08:32 PM	#98 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	yes, I agree, it is not right for him to judge deaf school and deaf people's writing skills. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

03-19-2010, 08:42 PM	#103 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	It seem to me he was comparing himself with his deaf friends. If he is happy being with hearing people, that's fine. But don't compare yourself to deaf people as if they don't have good education. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

03-19-2010, 08:50 PM	#104 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Choosing a school for any individual is such a complicated decision that it's hard to generalize which type of educational environment is better. My hearing kid goes to an IB charter school that's great for him. Some students would be very unhappy there. It depends on the student's needs, personality, interests and goals. There is no "one size fits all" education. __________________

03-19-2010, 09:04 PM	#107 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Lighthouse, do these parents investigate the deaf schools? When a parent makes a decision, the parent has to consider all of the options, visit schools, look at test scores, speak to professionals and listen to current students and their parents, etc. If a parent doesn't make the effort to do this, how can she make an informed decision? __________________

03-19-2010, 09:15 PM	#109 (permalink)
JoeyDeafNinja Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Travelers Rest, SC Posts: 1,281	okay I am sorry I attacked you guys __________________ Strength and thrown off reason and reality Cut myself and screamed for their insanity Wake up to this nightmare that will never end Main attraction of this twisted master plan I will be your deadman With nothing but this blood on my hands Stuck in your wonderland I wanna make you bleed just like me So make me your deadman With only poisoning in my veins Stuck in your wonderland Stagnated by the passivity I'm gonna make you bleed like me

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

03-20-2010, 12:53 AM	#110 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,234	Joey, Actually I think the reason why you had a good experiance in the mainstream is b/c you had the foundation of Deaf education. That is how it should be.....start out in Deaf Ed, with TODs who are experianced with teaching kids like us. I think if you'd started out in mainstream without having the foundation of Deaf ed, you would have had a much worse experiance.

03-20-2010, 12:26 PM	#113 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I'd like to make a comment here. I recently visited a state school for the deaf. Granted, I was there just for one day, but in my experience, I would NEVER send my deaf child to that specific school. Most of the students were obviously very behind and they seemed to have low faith in their future. A few already talked about using SSI after graduation from high school!! I honestly have no idea where it comes from (parents or teachers) but I know that I do not want my child to be surrounded in that environment. Even though I had lots of fun by being able to communicate with everyone, it was just so depressing to be in that state of environment. Just because they teach in ASL should NOT make it an automatic choice for your deaf child. Parents NEED to visit the schools to see how it is. It's that simple! For my elementary school, my mom went to several schools, including some out of state for deaf schools, and decided a hearing but small private school was the best balance for me. Look at your child's abilities, and then choose. Not look at other children's abilities and then choose (just so that your child can become one of them).

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