deafdyke

Faire_jour.........well network with the parents of THOSE kids! See what resources etc they discovered to help their kids talk.

Deafness

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vallee

When is the meeting? What have you decided? Remember she has only had her CI for a month and not sure in which direction she will lean. Remember if you don't agree with the IEP you must make a note of that on the IEP. If you don't sign it, it goes into effect even without your signature.

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dreama

Please don't move her from this school as it's sounds like she's getting what is MOST IMPORTANT. Age apropriate accademic skills and good social skills. She seems to be doing really well. If you want her to develop more oral skills that can be suplimented outside school. It sounds like you are doing that already.

No placement will ever be perfect for your daughter. I don't think I spoke that much either as a young kid and I was only mildy deaf. I'm told at one stage I wasn't speaking AT ALL but I can't remember that. Now I speak so well some people find it hard to believe I'm deaf.

Maybe try cued speach?

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faire_jour

The last thing we want is more visual! She is hearing really well, so if she is exposed to spoken language she should be able to hear well enough to learn it.

rick48

The two are not mutually exclusive. From what you have described of Miss Kat's present school, it is clear that her aural needs will never be met and a therapist who actually slaps kids' hands really tells you all you need to know.

Go visit both the oral program and the mainstream school, talk to the administrators, you may find that it is a more appropriate setting than what she is in now.

I am not discounting the social aspect at all but it is extremely unlikely that the kids she is friendly with at age 5 will still be her friends at age 15, if the other schools will meet her needs and the academics are fine, she will make new friends at a new school.

Good luck.
Rick

deafdyke

Ditto. I think a good placement right now would be the same placement PLUS trying to get supplemental speech/listening therapy or looking into a "split placement. You know....it is very possible that it's either too soon to tell how well she is going to develop speech (it's only been a month) or she may have a secondary condition that is somehow impairing her abilty to develop spoken language. You did say she started out hoh right? Most hoh kids do develop decent spoken language.

Sorry, rick but I disagree with you.
Deaf ed kids tend to have pretty strong social bonds. Also, there's no guantee that she'll be able to make friends in a mainstream/oral program. I really do think that the key to educational and social sucess for kids with more "classic" disablities is going with a split placement, until the student is old enough to give feedback about what placement is best for them.
Too often, parents assume that mainstreaming and oral classes are "better" then deaf ed.

deafskeptic

My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.

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jillio

Well said, deafskeptic!

rick48

There are many pros and cons and in the end, there are no absolutes as it always boils down to the needs and best interests of the individual child. However, there is nothing to lose by going and looking at alternative placements at this point in time.

A good point was made about basing the future needs on just one month of post-ci progress but on the other hand while there are no guarantees about the future, it is pretty much a given that very, very few children will develop their oral language skills to thier fullest potential in a program that does not even care to utilize spoken language in its instruction and employs a therapist who the parent has already determined to be lacking the necessary skills in that area.

faire jour, I would include oral speech and language therapy in her IEP to be given by someone who has experience working with ci kids and also that, with respect to your child that she receive "voice on" instructions in the classroom.

faire_jour

It is only one month post activation, but if she isn't given the proper learning enviroment and instruction, she will not make progress. She is already, in that one month, gained, at least a dozen receptive words, and is starting to ask for the spoken words for the signs she uses.
She already has "alternative strageties" to communicate with hearing people, she's been doing it for 5 years.
As for education, she won't be losing it. I'm not pulling her out of school to put her in 24 hour a day speech, I'm merely considering other educational placements.

Lissa

I was not talking until I had my aids for over 2 years, and not until I Started school, signs were able to help me communicate until i develop the skills of talking. now i like doing both

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shel90

U just reinforced my point I made earlier in this thread. As usual, I couldn't agree with u more.

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shel90

Deafteen..u are right..it will probably take years.

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shel90

I agree wiith u that Rick most likely to be incorrect abou the social aspects. What I see is that deaf children tend to form tight and special bonds that usually last for a lifetime because of the connection they feel with others in an unforgiving hearing world. Many of the new posters who come in here expressing feeling lost in the hearing world despite getting CIs or having good oral skills is just one perfect example among many others.

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Oceanbreeze

I think parental atitude and expectations can make or break a kid's success.

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jillio

Good post. It really is a shame that more people don't look at the big picture.

Lissa

Children are normally implanted before they are two so they can learn amd maybe start to talk by the time they are three/four. Miss Kat was a little bit older so she may take a while to talk if she has never spoke before, she has to learn how to speak, hear and use her implant at the same time.It's a big adjustment. Let us know how Miss Kat gets on

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rick48

Not for many kids who are implanted close in time to the onset of deafness, recieve real oral s&l therapy and are imersed in a rich and full oral environment. These are the kids who generally develop good and fluent speech skills.

As for social aspects, as usual dd and you take what I say to the extreme, many of the oral deaf kids that I know have both hearing and deaf friends and maintain close relations with both. My point is that most kids, deaf and hearing alike usually do not maintain the same set of friends forever thus, I would not necessarily use the friendships a child has at the age of 5 to be the controlling factor in a child's educational placement.

Again, I am very aware of the social aspects and needs of any child and realize that, especially in the mainstream, good oral speech skills will play a critical role in the socialization of a deaf child.
Rick

jillio

I've got reams of research that says different. In fact, several members of this forum have that research, as I sent out several copies.

shel90

Ok so by what Rick is saying, any deaf child who has good oral skills automatically will fit in the hearing world? Then, why do so many oral deaf children feel lost and isolated until they meet or connect with others in the Deaf community? Ooooh ok.

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jillio

Exactly. I think I sent you a copy of that research, didn't I? If not, I will. In fact, it shows that oral skills do not improve a child's social experience in the mainstream. That is a myth perpetrated by the oralists, and believed by parents that want to think it is true to justify their decisions. Millions of deaf people and much research shows that it simply is not true.

Jiro

I still maintain friendships with the same set of friends (more than 10 people) "forever." Our friendship began when we wore diapers (no really... kindergarten). I started moving about 4x in my life since 9th grade (1996).

At that time - Internet was at its early stage and things like facebook/AIM/myspace/etc didn't exist at that time so it was hard for me to keep in touch with them via phone calls. Year 2004 or so was the boon of the Internet Age at its best and everybody have emails, AIM, etc... We managed to find each other thru Internet and the bonds are still very strong as if it was yesterday even though we have not spoken with each other for several years.

see BOLD print of your post - I beg to differ. I am oral deaf person and since I grew up in oral-only environment... my social skill was immatured compared to my peers even though my academic skill was ahead of them. My academic skill was probably 2 grades ahead of my peers but my social skill was about 2-3 grades behind. When I look back at my early year - I was embarrassed because I had done things that were awkward and inappropriate... I blame that on being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment and that retarded my social development. The result would probably be better than mine and easier on my parents if I attended deaf school.

If you recall from long debate - deaf students do not limit themselves to deaf-only lifestyle for rest of their life. It actually helps them make a transition into mainstream (hearing environment) better.

Jiro

please do send me that copy as well.

rick48

I would love to see the research that says that deaf children with poor oral skills find it easier to socialize with hearing children in the mainstream then deaf children with good oral language skills.

If having good oral language skills is not a key factor for deaf children developing social relationships with their hearing peers then what, according to your "reams" of yet to be produced research, are those key factors?

If, as you claim, several members of this forum allegedly have this research, then sending it to others should not be such a big deal.

rick48

That is not even remotely close to what I wrote.

rick48

Good for you that you maintain those friendships but what I wrote was stated in general terms as there are always exceptions. Again, as to what you experienced, and since I have no way of knowing whether you have good oral skills or not, I am speaking in general terms. Since you have described yourself as "being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment" it may be that you do not have the oral skills that many children who received their cochlear implants at an early age do indeed possess.

From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills. The fact that they could speak and communicate orally to hearing children was a benefit to them.

Since this is a thread by a parent seeking IEP help, this is my last post responding on these non-IEP issues. If you want to continue it then do it somewhere else and let this thread get back to its intended purpose.
Rick

AlleyCat

Good post, as always. The bolded part, especially -- "From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills." It definitely applies to me.

Jiro

only for HOH with certain damage but not for many who have bad hearing to the point where trying to hear is pointless.

AlleyCat

How do you figure? I have a profound hearing loss yet I socialized very well in the mainstream (from an oral standpoint) - I have good speaking skills. Many other deaf people on this forum have said the same.

AlleyCat

Meaning that my level of hearing loss isn't always proportionate to speaking/socializing skills.