shel90

How was I exposed to it when I couldnt hear it? My dB loss was 120 in both ears. I missed out at least 95% of what was said throughout the day..the only time I had full acess to English was during my speech lessons cuz it was on an one-on-one basis or at home with my mom (again..one-on-one)..other than than, I had no language access 95% of the time...either auditorally or visually (since I was denied ASL). Reading gave me access to the English language so it was through print and my speech lessons, I was able to acquire English...not thru the spoken form throughout the day..impossible!).

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

jillio

It would be the same amount of English used for any kindergarten classroom. You are again, I think, confusing English with spoken language only.

shel90

1st grade and beyond, English will be used a LOT...I write everything on the board for my deaf students and they have to read and tell me what's going on in class...every half hour, I do that.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

faire_jour

No, I mean any English at all. And it is a lot less than an average classroom because all the communication is in ASL, whereas in a typical classroom it would be English. There is some print work, but only a little.

shel90

That's why it is a BiBi program ..in the public schools, it is a mono-language setting. As for bibi programs, that's how they do it in the European countries which is why children grow up being fluent in more than one language.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

jillio

Print work would be English. And if by "typical"classroom you mean a hearing classroom, communication would be in spoken English because it is a uni-lingual environment. It is uni-lingual because there is no need for information to be presented in a bi-lingual mode. All the students are uni-lingual.

jillio

I've got to start reading your posts before I reply!

shel90

Same here...I guess the misconception here is about kindergarten classes..they are about children's language development and understanding of concepts and how the world works around them and then first grade, it is about acquiring literacy skills and for the BiBi programs whether it is a Deaf or hearing program (in other countries) first grade and beyond is about acquiring the 2nd language.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

jillio

Exactly. Unless a child has the conceptual understanding of the symbolic nature of language, they will not be able to develop fluency in any language.

deafdyke

Yes, probaly. The research indicates that most orally sucessful kids got the benifit of the private oral programs. Really sucessful oral kids may just be part of the "private school effect." and or the fact that families who are attracted to the AVT methodology may be the type of families where a lot of emphasis is placed on acheivement like it's expected that the kid will go off to an Ivy League College.
Continue with the private AVT. That's prolly the best thing you can do for now.

doubletrouble

Here's what I have seen personally from my experience. Once a child is implanted, the school district has increased services for speech therapy- heck even one school district is letting a child use his private Speech Therapist because he iwas just implanted in his other ear and the SLP was the best qualified person to help the student get that ear up to speed. I have to say, family members of mine who were born Deaf (had Deaf family and parents) once they were implanted, they were sent to a mainstream program with sign language services and speech therapy services given. The speech therapy that is given is every day for 45 minute sessions after school- so that there is no pulling out of the classroom, as well as a TOD for 45 minutes every day. Your child may be getting the academic needs met , but not her aural needs- both need to be addressed. You cannot do well with the implant with incidental hearing (like a hearing child).. It requires work and commitmment. A tv is just not good enough, I speak from personal experinece. I had Deaf parents and still was required to go to speech every day until 6th grade because I spoke like a deaf child. Just something to think about.

Bottesini

Why can't you speak while signing to her at home? I can say from personal experience that my father spent a huge proportion of his non working hours at the dining room table with me focusing on language and watching him one on one.

I think he did a good job, but he did it mostly by this one on one focus. The schools have very little to do with my English proficiency.

__________________

faire_jour

I want her to succeed with the implant, but I don't want it to cost her happiness. I have no idea how to balance the two needs she has.

deafdyke

Melissa, you are doing a pretty good job right now actually. You just need to supplement the speech that she's getting right now. You have to rememeber that most preschool/kindergarten dhh kids still have significent oral language delays. There is a reason why there are still a lot of oral dhh early childhood education programs still in place. In fact, I think I was still having language therapy in kindergarten. (and I caught up really fast in terms of spoken language, once I got my hearing aids at three.

IslandBreeze07

Hi I've been reading this thread and want to say that if the opportunity is there for a child to learn, the child WILL learn in his own time and his own way. Provide TV, books, sign/voice, whatever is good for the child.

I'm deaf with two hearing children. I'm not the best voice so I leave the TV on often. I keep the kids busy because I lead a busy life--in and out, and about. Some days, I'd say too much TV Some days, not much TV but if no TV, then they've been out and around people who talk. My four year old talks perfectly. I got together recently with a friend from way back when we were kids. She has a five yr old son. She told me that my lil one speaks so much better than her son. I said come on...every kid is different. She said noooo she's really good. Even if I'm not perfect, I do talk to my kids everyday. I believed that if I didn't teach them too much sign language, they will be talking alot, without too much dependence on sign. I also requested their dad talk to them consistently so that helped alot. I taught the lil ones few signs so I can get them what they needed quick. Milk, drink, nap/bedtime, hurt (to help me source of pain if any) thumb up over my shoulder (punishment's coming like go to your room). I noticed when they use the sign, they don't talk. That's okay but when they do it too much, I make them use a complete sentence to keep them on track for talking in the world out there. I don't even like the demanding attitude some children display so I put the brakes on that also. l's say I can't understand you talking like that. What did you just say---so they get a chance to re-prhrase what they were trying to say in a nicer way.

If children are interested in books, get active with them!! If you want them to be gentle with dogs, then teach them to be gentle. If you want them to do well in school, get active in school. Easier said than done but I believe that to be a fact. I'd listen to the people with six years of experience and I'd listen to people who know their children the best. I'm also known as mom that would let her kids get minor cuts before taking action to so they'd learn that things do hurt and to be careful the next time. I can't say the same about my two year old jumping from a five feet ledge though...

__________________
http://www.iboplus.com/KGraber
http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/KGraber
Life is like a farm. You have to get up early and do the chores

faire_jour

I agree. IF the opportunity is there, she will learn. And I am trying to make sure she has the opportunity.

I am terribly active in her school. I am there at least twice a week, talking to the teacher and I volunteer at every opportunity. We are just in this sort of inbetween time now, where things are a little tricky and the future is still so unclear.

deafdyke

faire_jour.......is it possible that you're just feeling like you're not doing enough for Kat to have the best possible speech? Are there any other speech therapists available? You're doing great by supplementing with AVT....I think you think that if some therapy is good, therapy 24/7 is going to be good.

Miss-Delectable

Let Miss Kat learn in her own time.

I didn't speak much when I was in an oral program, but then my speech took off when I was in a Signed English program and that was when I was 4 years old. Now my speech is passable, not perfect,though.

There is a chance that Miss Kat might hear better than she speaks. However, it takes time for speech to progress.

I had only half hour speech therapy once a week or a fortnight when I was at school. So, your daughter is getting more than I did.

My suggestion is to get her speech teacher replaced with one who you believe will do better. And use your voice while signing to her. Difficult for you perhaps, but easier for her to learn.

__________________
"Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light."
- Helen Keller

AlleyCat

faire_jour, you sound like a GREAT mom!

I wonder about the IEPs, though .. maybe times have changed. I was looking not too long ago through some of the old IEPs that my IEP teacher wrote up (in my case, this is about 30 years ago already if we are talking about elementary school age) and in there, improving speech skills was included. Has that been excluded now?

doubletrouble

alley cat:
In my son's case, no it is still part of his IEP..

faire_jour

My daughter too. She has speech goals every year. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help her get the things she needs.

jillio

If the school has a speech therapist that is on staff, speech therapy can still be written into an IEP, most usually in a mainstream environment. This is still done because in this environment, access to information requires that the child not just understand speech, but be able to communicate questions and ideas so that the other students and teachers will understand. However, Miss Kat is in a bi-bi-program.

faire_jour

Every child in our program is offered speech/listening therapy. They also have a program called "Oracy" to work on the same sort of skills (including speechreading and phonic awareness)

Deborah

Hi! Hang in there--you will get through this decision! My daughter is almost in high school, but I remember the tough educational decisions we had to make at this early stage, too. One of the most frustrating things is when you cannot find the resources that you feel that your child needs. I am going through the same thing even at this stage. For us, it means moving to a new place--but I know that is not an option for many people. In our current area, there was only TC--oral ed was not an option(during my daughter's elementary years). She was very oral(had attended an oral preschool) and the decision was made to let her mainstream and continue AV therapy. It worked out okay until she hit adolescence--then the social issues came into play.

Since your options are also limited, it will be a tough decision. It just isn't fair that parents of deaf children don't have ALL options available to choose from when making these decisions! Try to picture your daughter in each situation: the bi-bi school does not seem to be meeting her oral language needs and may not improve much in the future, the mainstream choice may be very tough if she will be one of the only children who do not speak in school(can be done though), and the oral program MAY have issues with ASL. However, if this oral program is through a public school, I would think that you would have every right to get her in that program WITH an ASL interpreter. You could probably do the same thing in a mainstream situation, but think of the social issues--if there are other deaf children in the oral program, that is definitely a plus. I only WISH that my daughter had that option in her public elementary school! The one thing she missed out on that REALLY seems to matter to her: knowing other deaf children who are like her.

OK--so picture each situation: if she continues in the bi-bi school she will have deaf friends but her oral language will not be encouraged(according to what you have said)--and it seems that you are no longer happy there(once again, just going on what you have said)--are there other kids with CIs there?--if so, then have you talked to the other parents about the speech issue at the school? One important thing if she stayed there--wouldn't she really really want to have friends who are "like her"(deaf with CIs)? If there are, then that is good--hopefully you and the other parents could "force" the school to meet the needs of your kids with CIs. If your daughter is the only child with CIs, she may end up feeling "all alone." The same goes for the mainstream option--she could do that and have an ASL interpreter, but there won't be a lot of AV therapy going on--if she felt that she "fit in" with the hearing kids it could work, but if she feels "all alone" then it will be tough--not impossible, but tough. With the oral ed option--hopefully one in which you COULD absolutely get her an ASL interpreter--she would probably have deaf friends who wear hearing aids and CIs. At this age, there will be a wide range of "oral ability" among the class--some of the kids may speak wonderfully and some may have very little oral language--for the most part, they will probably all feel "the same" because they are all deaf and have "things on their ears"(something most hearing kids do not have). It would be SO wonderful if your daughter could make a friend "like her" at this age!! A little girl who is fluent in ASL, has CIs, and is learning to speak--if that is at all a possibility, I would go for it. If there was some way to go back for my daughter, I would try to find her a friend "just like her" from kindergarten on--and hopefully they could go all through elementary school together and have a lot in common through the years. I know it isn't always possible--sometimes there just aren't any other deaf kids the same age as your child--but if there is, I would jump at the chance to make that connection.

So, I guess the main thing is: where would your daughter be the happiest and make the most progress? She definitely needs the ASL right now--don't let them take that away from her wherever she goes. And, it sounds as if she would do great with AVT--and hopefully she can continue that plus get a lot of oral language instruction and exposure at school. And the social issue is SO SO important: if you could find even one little girl her age going through the same thing, that would be so great for her. So, if you can find all of that at the bi-bi school, that is great. If you can find it at the oral program, that is great, too. You may be able to get it in the mainstream, but it is harder to find deaf kids in that situation. Good luck in whatever you do! I am sure she will be happy in the right situation. Good luck!

faire_jour

There are other CI and hearing aid users in the class but none of them are oral language users. There are a few in the school, but very few. I love the social and (for early elementary) the academics of her school, but we need more and I don't think we have the power to get the services she would need. We always knew we would eventually leave the school (they don't even have a high school program, not enough kids) but we didn't realize it would be so soon. Miss Kat just loves these kids so much, if we leave the school, we will HAVE TO stay in contact with her friends. Ugh, this hurts already....

deafdyke

Any possibilty for a "split placement?" I honestly do think that ambigious kids need a really good foundation (at least til third grade) of a split placement instead of automaticly assuming that this or that placement is the best.
Have you networked with the oral sucesses? Are there any Deaf mainstream programs in your area?

faire_jour

I know a few oral kids, but general they are mainstreamed and they are tough to contact. We have an oral program, but after they are decided to be mainstreamed they are just put in the local district.

ClearSky

faire_jour, why don't you try the oral program part of the day or bring your daughter to get a feel of the classroom? Maybe she won't be as nervous as you are as a parent, which is understandable. I think some speech exposure might help encourage Miss Kat to verbalize more. You could try part of the day to help try out the program or ease the transition depending on how Miss Kat does.

I think you've got a lot of great advices here. Whatever you choose to do, I wish Miss Kat much success.

deafdyke

faire_joure, I thought you mentioned that there were some kids at Miss Kat's current school who were orally skilled?
I second ClearSky's suggestion....maybe place her in the oral program part time and then the rest of the time at her current school?

faire_jour

I would say, in the entire program (between 80-100 kids) there are 20 who can use or want (or parents want) spoken language. And the majority of them are 2nd grade and under. There are maybe half a dozen that have better oral skills than Miss Kat.