Should Deaf Schools be Shut Down? - Page 3

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Not quite true. A 16 year old student did rape a 6 year old on the bus going home for weekend.

And that could have just as easily happened to a hearing student going home on a bus. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was 2 students from a deaf school. It happens with mainstream students all the time. I can think of at least 3 cases in my state recently where a disabled student was coerced into sexual behavior at school or on the bus by another student. The problem, obviously, is not with the school, but with the fact that an individual student had problems that aren't being addressed. Likewise, if you look at it proportionately, far more hearing teachers at public schools are arrested, loose their license, or are accused of sexual contact with students.

**Bottesini** · 10-26-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And that could have just as easily happened to a hearing student going home on a bus. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was 2 students from a deaf school. It happens with mainstream students all the time. I can think of at least 3 cases in my state recently where a disabled student was coerced into sexual behavior at school or on the bus by another student. The problem, obviously, is not with the school, but with the fact that an individual student had problems that aren't being addressed. Likewise, if you look at it proportionately, far more hearing teachers at public schools are arrested, loose their license, or are accused of sexual contact with students.

Did not say it couldn't happen mainstream. But it is counterproductive to make a case by saying it does not happen when it does.

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I also prefer truth!

Me 2.

Tousi · 10-26-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I also prefer truth!

Of course, don't we all? The existence of residential schools and all that they mean/represent is greater than reasons to shut them down, especially if the majority (as in the case of my school) of students are mainstreamed (day students) and the personnel hired therein have higher qualifications than that of many, if not most residential schools. And I think there's greater national awareness to improve on that situation and this of, course, means more money for higher qualified personnel. Its an uphill political/philosophical battle to attain this.

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Did not say it couldn't happen mainstream. But it is counterproductive to make a case by saying it does not happen when it does.

I don't think I suggested that it didn't happen. I was simply pointing out that it is not exclusive to deaf schools. If we are going to close down deaf schools based on these reports, then why aren't we suggesting that the public schools with the same problems be closed down?

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Of course, don't we all? The existence of residential schools and all that they mean/represent is greater than reasons to shut them down, especially if the majority (as in the case of my school) of students are mainstreamed and the personnel hired therein have higher qualifications than that of many, if not most residential schools. And I think there's greater national awareness to improve on that situation and this of, course, means more money for higher qualified personnel. Its an uphill political/philosophical battle to attain this.

**Bottesini** · 10-26-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Correction. One deaf school. And none of the most recent cases involved skin in skin sexual contact, but were related to text messages of an explicit nature. While this certainly cannot be condoned in any circumstance, it does not qualify as evidence that most deaf students are sexually abused. There was a case of another young lady at a different school who was recently charged with the same crime, and yet, everyone wanted to "wait and see" if she was found guilty before they said anything about her behavior. But different standards are now being applied to the same thing in a different school.

If one reads this whole article, espcially as it is related to the individual pictured, one will realize that this student is now 27 years old (hardly recent) and is also diagnosed with another disability.

Not to harp on it, but yes you did. In the bold. And the rape of the 6 year old on the bus is one of the most recent cases.

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Not to harp on it, but yes you did. In the bold. And the rape of the 6 year old on the bus is one of the most recent cases.

If that is the way you wish to interpret it, then fine. But I in no way indicated that sexual abuse was not occurring in the deaf school reported. I simply qualified the type of sexual abuse that the teachers had been accused of. In those cases, there had been no skin on skin sexual contact, but was restricted to innappropriate and explicit text messaging.

From the article linked, and to which I refer:

In a recent interview, state Superintendent of Education Paul Pastorek stressed that the five arrests of school employees were for alleged crimes that did not involve actual “skin-on-skin” sexual contact with students. Investigators have said that there was no skin-on-skin contact in the other two arrests either.

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Sexual abuse has taken place at schools/programs for the deaf for many years. To date, these schools are known to have had sexual abuse incidents:

Amherst School for the Deaf/Halifax
Deaf, in Canada
Arkansas School for the Deaf
Jericho Hill School for the Deaf in Maine
Eastern North Carolina School for the Deaf/Central (North Carolina School for the Deaf- closed)
Margarget Sterck School for the Deaf, Delaware
South Africa- Limpopo school for the Deaf
Washington School for the Deaf- This school has been the subject of an entire newspaper series by the Seattle Post Intelligencer.
Oregon School for the Deaf
St. Rita School for the Deaf in Ohio (alleged)

Source

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Source[/LIST]

Sexual abuse has taken place at public schools for years, at military schools for years, in church groups, in Boy Scout troops, Girl Scout troops, and even by physicians. Should we close all doctors offices, all public schools, all Scouting orgranizations, and all churches down as a result, or should be be addressing the reason that the sexual abuse is occurring across domains?

Aid workers were recently found to be sexually abusing young children in Africa (since one of the schools you mentioned was in Africa). Should we do away with the Peace Corps, too?

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Of course, don't we all? The existence of residential schools and all that they mean/represent is greater than reasons to shut them down, especially if the majority (as in the case of my school) of students are mainstreamed and the personnel hired therein have higher qualifications than that of many, if not most residential schools. And I think there's greater national awareness to improve on that situation and this of, course, means more money for higher qualified personnel. Its an uphill political/philosophical battle to attain this.

That's why I voted "not sure". Also I thought majority means 50% of people? :shrug:

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Sexual abuse has taken place at public schools for years, at military schools for years, in church groups, in Boy Scout troops, Girl Scout troops, and even by physicians. Should we close all doctors offices, all public schools, all Scouting orgranizations, and all churches down as a result, or should be be addressing the reason that the sexual abuse is occurring across domains?

I don’t know where you get the impression that I said it only happened at deaf residential schools?

I did not say anything about closing Deaf schools nor did I voted yes either.

jillio · 10-26-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

That's why I voted "not sure". Also I thought majority means 50% of people? :shrug:

No, majority means more than 50%. Usually significantly more.

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, majority means more than 50%. Usually significantly more.

Ah I see,

jillio · 10-26-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Ah I see,

You're welcome!

jillio · 10-26-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I don’t know where you get the impression that I said it only happened at deaf residential schools?

I did not say anything about closing Deaf schools nor did I voted yes either.

It wasn't directed at you only. It seems that sexual abuse gets brought up in every agrument against deaf schools, and I am just showing that not sending your child to a deaf school in no way protects them from the risk of being sexually abused, nor are they more likely to be sexually abused at a deaf residential school than anywhere else.

I realize that you voted "don't know", but you also opened the door for the discussion of sexual abuse as related to deaf schools.

**Bottesini** · 10-26-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, majority means more than 50%. Usually significantly more.

Majority means more than 50%. Not significantly more. 51% is a majority..

jillio · 10-26-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Majority means more than 50%. Not significantly more. 51% is a majority..

It is a small majority, and not enough of a majority to be considered significant. Not when we are talking about the experiences of people. And keep in mind, that is a majority only of those reporting, and not the entire population.

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Not to harp on it, but yes you did. In the bold. And the rape of the 6 year old on the bus is one of the most recent cases.

And we have to see if the bus services and the hiring of bus staff were the responsibility of the public schools or the deaf schools before we assign blame. Usually the staff who work on the buses are paid very low and usually underqualified which is VERY unfortunate for the kids riding on the buses. I was watching utube videos and saw so many videos of bus drivers abusing hearing students or even not paying attention to what the hearing kids do to each other on the buses. It was an eye-opener!

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Of course, don't we all? The existence of residential schools and all that they mean/represent is greater than reasons to shut them down, especially if the majority (as in the case of my school) of students are mainstreamed and the personnel hired therein have higher qualifications than that of many, if not most residential schools. And I think there's greater national awareness to improve on that situation and this of, course, means more money for higher qualified personnel. Its an uphill political/philosophical battle to attain this.

I agree with you.

**Bottesini** · 10-26-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And we have to see if the bus services and the hiring of bus staff were the responsibility of the public schools or the deaf schools before we assign blame. Usually the staff who work on the buses are paid very low and usually underqualified which is VERY unfortunate for the kids riding on the buses. I was watching utube videos and saw so many videos of bus drivers abusing hearing students or even not paying attention to what the hearing kids do to each other on the buses. It was an eye-opener!

I agree with you completely and it needs to be fixed.

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I agree with you completely and it needs to be fixed.

Oh yea big time!!! Both in deaf and public schools. I hope since the implementation of strict background checks has helped improved these problems.

I remember getting bullied and harrassed on the bus in middle school. It sucked big time.

**Bottesini** · 10-26-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh yea big time!!! Both in deaf and public schools. I hope since the implementation of strict background checks has helped improved these problems.

I remember getting bullied and harrassed on the bus in middle school. It sucked big time.

Yes. It did. Me too again!

**Angel** · 10-26-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And we have to see if the bus services and the hiring of bus staff were the responsibility of the public schools or the deaf schools before we assign blame.

The rape occurred on a bus by the Louisiana School for the Deaf. It says "Pastorek has said that the reported assault began on the back seat of the bus and continued when the boy locked himself in the bus restroom with the girl.

A chaperone, who was a residential adviser at the school for one year, ignored or did not understand another student’s attempt to tell her about the rape while it was happening, Pastorek said.

After the incident, Pastorek fired the chaperone, who did not know sign language when she was hired, he has said."

Source

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

The rape occurred on a bus by the Louisiana School for the Deaf. It says "Pastorek has said that the reported assault began on the back seat of the bus and continued when the boy locked himself in the bus restroom with the girl.

A chaperone, who was a residential adviser at the school for one year, ignored or did not understand another student’s attempt to tell her about the rape while it was happening, Pastorek said.

After the incident, Pastorek fired the chaperone, who did not know sign language when she was hired, he has said."

Source

Glad that woman was fired. It showed that the school took action but why did the school hire her if she didnt know sign language? Strange!

jillio · 10-26-2008, 03:09 PM

[QUOTE=shel90;1133873]Glad that woman was fired. It showed that the school took action but why did the school hire her if she didnt know sign language? Strange![/QUOTE]

Agreed. She was supposed to be chaperoning, but could not even communicate with the students. That sounds negligent to me.

faire_jour · 10-26-2008, 03:39 PM

My daughter recently attended a summer camp at our residental school for the Deaf. We stayed in the dorms. The dorm workers did not know sign and were unable to understand the speech of the deaf children who used spoken language. I have no idea how these kids are supposed to communicate with the adults.

As for the sexual abuse,as a parent my number one concern is the availablity of alone time with adults (which is significantly increased by living in the dorms) and mixed age groups. The rape could only take place at a Deaf school (or private school) because a mainstream school would not have a six year old and 16 year old on the same bus. They would be seperated.

Oceanbreeze · 10-26-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

My daughter recently attended a summer camp at our residental school for the Deaf. We stayed in the dorms. The dorm workers did not know sign and were unable to understand the speech of the deaf children who used spoken language. I have no idea how these kids are supposed to communicate with the adults.

As for the sexual abuse,as a parent my number one concern is the availablity of alone time with adults (which is significantly increased by living in the dorms) and mixed age groups. The rape could only take place at a Deaf school (or private school) because a mainstream school would not have a six year old and 16 year old on the same bus. The would be seperated.

Not necessarily. I was bussed to a mainstreamed school and the age range of the kids on the bus was anywhere from 3 yrs old to teen or even adulthood. Some of the schools for developmental delays took kids until their 21st birthday. Likewise, alot of the kids started school very early; some as young as 2-3 yrs old.

Sexual abuse can happen anywhere, however.

faire_jour · 10-26-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Not necessarily. I was bussed to a mainstreamed school and the age range of the kids on the bus was anywhere from 3 yrs old to teen or even adulthood. Some of the schools for developmental delays took kids until their 21st birthday. Likewise, alot of the kids started school very early; some as young as 2-3 yrs old.

Sexual abuse can happen anywhere, however.

By mainstream school I mean the neighborhood school that the child would attend if they had been born hearing. In my experience, high school kids and elementary children are not bussed together.

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 04:48 PM

School Bus Aide Accused Of Sexual Abuse - Topix

Williston school bus driver charged with sexual abuse of child... | KXNet.com North Dakota News

School bus aide charged with sexual abuse

News uncovers 225 more cases of school bus abuse

The City Education Department hid 225 complaints of abuse aboard public school buses to keep the numbers down, a Daily News investigation found.

Bus Driver Is Charged With Sexual Abuse - New York Times

It happens all over the place not just at Deaf schools.

View Poll Results: Should Deaf schools be shut down?
Yes	7	11.48%
No	47	77.05%
Not sure	5	8.20%
I dont care	2	3.28%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

10-26-2008, 03:39 PM	#87 (permalink)
faire_jour Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,199	My daughter recently attended a summer camp at our residental school for the Deaf. We stayed in the dorms. The dorm workers did not know sign and were unable to understand the speech of the deaf children who used spoken language. I have no idea how these kids are supposed to communicate with the adults. As for the sexual abuse,as a parent my number one concern is the availablity of alone time with adults (which is significantly increased by living in the dorms) and mixed age groups. The rape could only take place at a Deaf school (or private school) because a mainstream school would not have a six year old and 16 year old on the same bus. They would be seperated. Last edited by faire_jour; 10-26-2008 at 04:22 PM.

10-26-2008, 04:48 PM	#90 (permalink)
shel90 Audist are not welcome Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,504 Blog Entries: 3	School Bus Aide Accused Of Sexual Abuse - Topix Williston school bus driver charged with sexual abuse of child... \| KXNet.com North Dakota News School bus aide charged with sexual abuse News uncovers 225 more cases of school bus abuse The City Education Department hid 225 complaints of abuse aboard public school buses to keep the numbers down, a Daily News investigation found. Bus Driver Is Charged With Sexual Abuse - New York Times It happens all over the place not just at Deaf schools. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

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10-26-2008, 03:09 PM	#86 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	[QUOTE=shel90;1133873]Glad that woman was fired. It showed that the school took action but why did the school hire her if she didnt know sign language? Strange![/QUOTE] Agreed. She was supposed to be chaperoning, but could not even communicate with the students. That sounds negligent to me.