Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught - Page 12

faire_jour · 07-01-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

No, I do not find it rude at all. Its called educating the child. What, its ok to sign in front of students who do not know sign but not speak in front of students who do not know how to speak?

It would seem that the goal of the school if it is truly interested in educating a student is to provide that student as much access to their primary language as possible while they learn the the other half of the "bi-lingual" component.

I am sure that if a child was in a bi-bi classroom and didn't have access to ASL there would be accomadations.

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I am sure that if a child was in a bi-bi classroom and didn't have access to ASL there would be accomadations.

You are correct on that one as I have seen it happen myself. However, to your question bout using spoken English with the child without signing being rude or not, the answer is both yes and no depending on the situation. Yes, cuz the other deaf kids who have no oral skills will miss out but no cuz the oral deaf child has the right to access to the curriculm so what we do is if that happens, we share the information in ASL and then share the same in formation with the oral students if they havent become fluent in ASL yet. If we shared info with either one without sharing to the other group, then yes, it is very rude and very unfair. However, if the oral child is fluent in ASL and staff uses spoken English with the child all the time in front of the other children without signing then that is very disrespectful cuz the classroom is for all of the children not just a select few. That's why I feel that way about mainstreaming or oral deaf ed programs...it is the deaf children who are constantly missing out on some info or lagging behind. Why the need for CART or terps?

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

Yes, having teachers as role models is a GREAT thing--kids who are deaf and use ASL would be blessed to meet deaf adults "just like them"(great models for future success). AND oral deaf kids need the same thing! Ideally, having teachers "just like them" is a great concept for ALL kids. We should always realize the importance of adult role models in the lives of children. Since my daughter is deaf, speaks English, and wants to learn ASL, the best role model for her would be deaf adults who are fluent in English and ASL--she would do best with teachers who 1) understand what it means to be deaf/hh and 2) can converse with her in both English and ASL(once she learns ASL). Yes, there are some hearing teachers at FSDB, but I honestly was the MOST impressed when I met a few teachers who were "oral deaf" AND used ASL--they talked AND they signed--these are the role models for my daughter who are "just like her" or at least "just like the way she would like to be"(once she learns ASL). Meeting deaf people who wear hearing aids (she can kind of relate to CI users but hearing aid users are "more like her"), who speak English, and who have learned ASL as a second language--these are people who are MOST like her--people who are GREAT role models for her--the more teachers and adults that she meets who are "just like her", the better. Yes, she can definitely look up to teachers who are Deaf and teachers who are hearing--both kinds of teachers are presenting things in one of the two languages that she plans to use. But the BEST role model for her would be teachers who are "just like her"--people who are deaf and speak English as a first language and use ASL as a second language(what she hopes to do soon). We met some teachers like that at FSDB--she was very interested in the fact that these teachers wore hearing aids like she did, spoke like she did, and use sign like she wants to do--great role models for her!

Then I would be the perfect teacher who is just like your daughter. I am a hearing aid user who grew up fully oral, learning ASL as a 2nd language.

jillio · 07-01-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

Excellent suggestion.

jillio · 07-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

No, I do not find it rude at all. Its called educating the child. What, its ok to sign in front of students who do not know sign but not speak in front of students who do not know how to speak?

It would seem that the goal of the school if it is truly interested in educating a student is to provide that student as much access to their primary language as possible while they learn the the other half of the "bi-lingual" component.

She was referring to an informal situation on campus, not a classroom. Get your bias our of the way before you read the posts.

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

We share the information in ASL and then share the same information with the oral students if they haven't become fluent in ASL yet. If we shared info with either one without sharing to the other group, then yes, it is very rude and very unfair.

That is how things seem to be done at FSDB--lots of back and forth. I was only there for a brief time, so I only can report the bits of time that I saw in the classrooms. One teacher was instructing the students in geography--hmm...speech first or sign first, I'm not sure--but what I saw was BOTH--the names of the places being both spoken and signed, the names of the rivers being both spoken and signed, not at the exact same time, but one first and then the other. There seemed to be a really good flow back and forth between the two languages--students who understood the spoken words and students who understood ASL were BOTH being accommodated. Sometimes, the kids would ask questions--sometimes orally and sometimes in sign--the response would always be in BOTH. I guess if the question was in sign, it would be repeated or interpreted out loud, then the teacher would answer in sign, followed by the oral interpretation. If a student asked a question orally, the question would be repeated/interpreted in ASL, the teacher would answer orally and quickly interpret what she said in ASL. Does this make sense? I saw a very good flow of BOTH languages--NO ONE was left out because BOTH languages were being used. I really admire the teachers that have to work doubly hard to teach in two languages--some of them were oral deaf adults and made the bilingual aspect really "come to life." Maybe other teachers would need interpreters to help in the process--whatever works, right? Just as long as EVERY student is getting access to BOTH languages--they may focus more on their first language but they are getting access to both--and NO ONE is being left out in ANY way.

So, if Bi-Bi is giving DUAL access, then that is great! Keep in mind that there may be more and more older deaf students who DO have English as a first language and want ASL as a second language--there should be plenty of deaf schools that make this an acceptable option for them. Many people on this board have said that they did not learn ASL until later in life--teens or adulthood--there needs to be lots of good options and access for people in that situation. I don't know how many deaf schools are like I described(good balance of both spoken English and ASL) and how many are like others have described(much more heavily balanced on the ASL side)--and, of course, public schools are heavily balanced on the spoken English side--some kids would do well in one, some in another, and some in another. I just know that, for my child, the very equally balanced environment of EQUAL use of spoken English and ASL--with NO ONE getting left out and EVERYTHING always being interpreted into BOTH languages--that seems like the BEST option. She feels left out in regular public schools, and she would feel left out in a deaf school that was heavily ASL with little to no spoken English in the environment. She would do her best in an equally balanced environment.

I don't know is FSDB considers themselves to be TC or Bi-Bi, but whatever it is, it seems to work. No kids who sign only seem to be left out, no kids who speak only seem to be left out--EVERYTHING seems to be presented in BOTH languages. I still do not know if this is the norm among deaf schools or not--I have been to a few campuses that seem much more "silent"--my daughter is much more comfortable when there is BOTH speech AND sign going on around her--not just one or the other. Being in a regular school with no other deaf kids was not right for her. Being in a deaf school with no other oral deaf kids would not be right for her. Being in a deaf school with a good balance of both : kids who speak, kids who sign, and complete interpretation between the two languages at all times--THAT seems to be the right place for her.

I completely agree that NOT interpreting for EITHER side would be RUDE,RUDE, RUDE!! People signing in front of someone not fluent in ASL--it needs to be interpreted so that they are not being left out. People speaking in front of someone who does not know(or cannot hear) spoken English--it needs to be interpreted so that they are not being left out. Not doing so--in EITHER case--would definitely be rude. THAT is why I was asking about the accommodations for English speakers in Bi-Bi programs--some said that YES all ASL would be interpreted for them, and some seem to indicate that it may not be(that they should be fluent in ASL first before being comfortable at that particular school). Also, many English speakers would not be comfortable if there were no other English speaking students(or just a few)--just as students who only know ASL may not feel comfortable in a school where they are the only ones(or almost the only ones) who use ASL. When looking for a good educational environment for our children, this is a major consideration. Being the "only one" or "one of the few" is not always a comfortable place to be--especially for teenagers. Yes, some may do okay in this isolated kind of environment, but many would LOVE to be surrounded with LOTS of people "just like them." THAT is why many deaf teenagers who may have done okay in the mainstream for a while suddenly begin to desire something different--they want to be around people like themselves--that is where deaf schools come into play. If they can find a deaf school where they really fit in, then they think it is "heaven on earth"--but if they feel just as isolated at a deaf school as they would at a hearing school, they would not be happy there either. Whatever it is called--TC or Bi-Bi or something else--as long as these students feel comfortable and can continue to use their first language, spoken English, while learning their second language, ASL, then all is well. And as long as they can make LOTS of friends "just like them" and not feel left out and "the only one"--then all is well. That is what my daughter is looking for--a deaf school where she can make lots of deaf friends--some who talk and some who sign--and some who do BOTH--and a good way to balance the TWO languages so no one ever feels left out. Sounds great, right? But it is harder to find than you would think--and, of course, there is the whole "where you live and what resources are available" issue--it is really a challenge to find the best placement for deaf/hh kids. We are trying to find the "best fit" for our daughter's high school years--it is a challenge, but we think we have found the right place for her. Now if we could just get ourselves moved so we can enroll her in the school she wants to attend--yet another challenge!

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Why the need for CART or terps?

I am curious about CART--is that the same thing as "real time captioning"? Even when students are understanding things through spoken English and/or ASL, it seems that the captioning/transcription would be a helpful tool. I am just imagining that having EVERYTHING that is said or signed in class completely translated into written English would be good, right? Kind of like "court transcription"--a visible reference to everything that is said in court? Wouldn't it be a great extra tool? I'm thinking that it could be a great way of having notes from class--it is hard for deaf/hh kids to make that transfer from catching what is presented and understanding to writing down notes about what is presented. I know that in public schools, some deaf/hh kids have note-takers. I don't know a lot about CART--I was thinking that it was a mechanical equivalent of a note-taker, or is it an individual who is transcripting? Isn't there now technology that translates all speech into print? Hmm...but what about kids who use ASL--how can that all be translated into print? I guess there just needs to be LOTS and LOTS of printed materials given to the students. Still, I really like the idea of everything presented being translated into print--is CART a good tool for that?

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Then I would be the perfect teacher who is just like your daughter. I am a hearing aid user who grew up fully oral, learning ASL as a 2nd language.

I am sure you would be!

I am sure that you a blessing to your students and a wonderful role model. Don't you wish more Deaf/deaf people would go into deaf education? That would be great to have many more role models for the kids. Oh, and we try very hard to find other role models, too--we are constantly searching for deaf people who could provide that for our daughter. I think that being involved in a deaf school will be a great way to do that. And she admires Heather Whitestone and Marlee Matlin--two beautiful deaf women who she kind of identifies with(although they are quite a bit older than her). We have tried to find info on younger deaf girls and women in entertainment--there was a deaf girl named Shoshanna on a show this past fall, I think. Recently, she discovered the Deaf Performing Artists Network--I think that is what it is called. She has watched the music videos with sign--she loves them! There are some teenage girls in these videos--if she could find out their names, she would be a big fan! I am just assuming these are professional deaf actresses--I hope more and more deaf teens go into acting and eventually make their way into Hollywood. I know--Hollywood isn't the best place to find role models--but hey, teens are really into that. They want to know all about the glamorous lives of people like Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus--wouldn't it be GREAT to have some deaf teenagers providing that kind of role for today's deaf teens? And, of course, they need role models in many different careers so that they can see deaf people working in fields in which they may be interested in doing themselves. We are always on the lookout for things like this--my daughter has always been very interested in meeting others like herself. Usually, though, when she notices someone else wearing hearing aids, it is an elderly person(not deaf, just lost hearing as they aged)! That is SO not the same thing! Is it just her, or do other people go around peeking at people's ears to see if maybe there are hearing aids or cochlear implants there? She is discreet, of course--but she gets excited when she notices someone whose ears look like hers(with hearing aids in them)! And then the Bluetooth came out--anyone else look at one and think "hearing aids" until they got a bit closer? Anyway--for my daughter, finding others who wear hearing aids has always been an interesting endeavor. She will be in "hog heaven" at the deaf school!

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

I am sure you would be!

I am sure that you a blessing to your students and a wonderful role model. Don't you wish more Deaf/deaf people would go into deaf education? That would be great to have many more role models for the kids. Oh, and we try very hard to find other role models, too--we are constantly searching for deaf people who could provide that for our daughter. I think that being involved in a deaf school will be a great way to do that. And she admires Heather Whitestone and Marlee Matlin--two beautiful deaf women who she kind of identifies with(although they are quite a bit older than her). We have tried to find info on younger deaf girls and women in entertainment--there was a deaf girl named Shoshanna on a show this past fall, I think. Recently, she discovered the Deaf Performing Artists Network--I think that is what it is called. She has watched the music videos with sign--she loves them! There are some teenage girls in these videos--if she could find out their names, she would be a big fan! I am just assuming these are professional deaf actresses--I hope more and more deaf teens go into acting and eventually make their way into Hollywood. I know--Hollywood isn't the best place to find role models--but hey, teens are really into that. They want to know all about the glamorous lives of people like Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus--wouldn't it be GREAT to have some deaf teenagers providing that kind of role for today's deaf teens? And, of course, they need role models in many different careers so that they can see deaf people working in fields in which they may be interested in doing themselves. We are always on the lookout for things like this--my daughter has always been very interested in meeting others like herself. Usually, though, when she notices someone else wearing hearing aids, it is an elderly person(not deaf, just lost hearing as they aged)! That is SO not the same thing! Is it just her, or do other people go around peeking at people's ears to see if maybe there are hearing aids or cochlear implants there? She is discreet, of course--but she gets excited when she notices someone whose ears look like hers(with hearing aids in them)! And then the Bluetooth came out--anyone else look at one and think "hearing aids" until they got a bit closer? Anyway--for my daughter, finding others who wear hearing aids has always been an interesting endeavor. She will be in "hog heaven" at the deaf school!

Thank u and I understand what u mean.

My deaf brother is friends with Shoshanna Stern. I dont know if they still keep in touch though.

I think less deaf people are interested in deaf education cuz of the push for the oral-only philosophy on all deaf children now. It is unfortunate.

jillio · 07-01-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

I am curious about CART--is that the same thing as "real time captioning"? Even when students are understanding things through spoken English and/or ASL, it seems that the captioning/transcription would be a helpful tool. I am just imagining that having EVERYTHING that is said or signed in class completely translated into written English would be good, right? Kind of like "court transcription"--a visible reference to everything that is said in court? Wouldn't it be a great extra tool? I'm thinking that it could be a great way of having notes from class--it is hard for deaf/hh kids to make that transfer from catching what is presented and understanding to writing down notes about what is presented. I know that in public schools, some deaf/hh kids have note-takers. I don't know a lot about CART--I was thinking that it was a mechanical equivalent of a note-taker, or is it an individual who is transcripting? Isn't there now technology that translates all speech into print? Hmm...but what about kids who use ASL--how can that all be translated into print? I guess there just needs to be LOTS and LOTS of printed materials given to the students. Still, I really like the idea of everything presented being translated into print--is CART a good tool for that?

CART is a transcribing service. It has pluses and minuses. One of the drawbacks is that a child who is language delayed, or is deficient in reading skills, will not be able to keep up with the transcription. Most often, transcription services do not provide a written transcript. The student reads the transcription during class from a computer terminal.

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 01:42 PM

[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?[QUOTE]

We aren't there yet, but we hope to be there soon. We haven't been able to "link up " with many students or parents there yet. Since we aren't there yet, it is hard to do long distance. However, we DID discover a blog written by a teenage girl who is in the blind program at FSDB. Her mother also contributes to the blog, and they often post things about the school. It proved to be a great way to see things from an insiders point-of-view--they LOVE FSDB--the girl is very happy there and the mother is very pleased with it, too. Yes, the deaf and blind programs are very different, but we can see through their perspective that people at FSDB seem very nice. The girl had been mainstreaming I think, and came to FSDB for middle school--she made lots of friends, loves her teachers and classes, and is VERY happy to be there. I commented on the blog and now the mother and I have been emailing back and forth. My daughter loved looking at the photos on the blog about her "dream school." If we could find more blogs like this one, it would be great! She would love to find a teenage girl in the deaf program online--she is looking through things like MySpace and Facebook--no luck yet. Maybe soon she can connect this way first, then meet some of her classmates in person as soon as we move. For now, she feels as if she already has one friend there this way--she would like to find more! I know the internet has it's danger zones, but it can be a great way to facilitate things like this when you can't physically be where you want to be yet. We even considered deaf summer camps, but they seemed to only be for Florida residents. We are trying very hard to become residents, but we are not yet, so there are some things we just can't do yet. Hopefully we will be very soon though!

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 01:44 PM

[QUOTE=Deborah;1023690][QUOTE] Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

Quote:

We aren't there yet, but we hope to be there soon. We haven't been able to "link up " with many students or parents there yet. Since we aren't there yet, it is hard to do long distance. However, we DID discover a blog written by a teenage girl who is in the blind program at FSDB. Her mother also contributes to the blog, and they often post things about the school. It proved to be a great way to see things from an insiders point-of-view--they LOVE FSDB--the girl is very happy there and the mother is very pleased with it, too. Yes, the deaf and blind programs are very different, but we can see through their perspective that people at FSDB seem very nice. The girl had been mainstreaming I think, and came to FSDB for middle school--she made lots of friends, loves her teachers and classes, and is VERY happy to be there. I commented on the blog and now the mother and I have been emailing back and forth. My daughter loved looking at the photos on the blog about her "dream school." If we could find more blogs like this one, it would be great! She would love to find a teenage girl in the deaf program online--she is looking through things like MySpace and Facebook--no luck yet. Maybe soon she can connect this way first, then meet some of her classmates in person as soon as we move. For now, she feels as if she already has one friend there this way--she would like to find more! I know the internet has it's danger zones, but it can be a great way to facilitate things like this when you can't physically be where you want to be yet. We even considered deaf summer camps, but they seemed to only be for Florida residents. We are trying very hard to become residents, but we are not yet, so there are some things we just can't do yet. Hopefully we will be very soon though!

Do you want only deaf teenaged girls from FSBD or from any deaf sschools?

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

CART is a transcribing service. It has pluses and minuses. One of the drawbacks is that a child who is language delayed, or is deficient in reading skills, will not be able to keep up with the transcription. Most often, transcription services do not provide a written transcript. The student reads the transcription during class from a computer terminal.

\

Oh, ok--like a "running commentary" as things are being said. Hmm... yeah, that would be MUCH better if it was then transferred into print, printed out at the end of class, and given to each student. I do like the idea of real time captioning, though--it can help clarify things sometimes. However, a student may have trouble knowing where to focus if they are having to always stare at the captioning screen. I don't know--I just like the idea of everything being translated into printed English--and a printed out hard copy would be a great study tool. The BEST thing would be to have a written transcript given to each student. If not, then I can see how it is almost a completely different tool otherwise. Hey, I am hearing, but I often wish that life worked a bit like closed-captioning tv, followed by a printed transcript afterward. I am definitely a visual learner--no matter how much I hear, I still prefer to have as much as possible in written or other visual format. I would imagine that is the case with deaf/hh people, too--what invention still needs to be made to facilitate that? If everyone could somehow walk around with a device that translates everything into print, saves it into memory, and can be printed out later--that sounds great! I can think of things that partially fit that need, but not completely--is there anything out there that would do all of that? If so, I want one!

Deborah · 07-01-2008, 02:00 PM

[QUOTE=shel90;1023691][QUOTE=Deborah;1023690]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

Do you want only deaf teenaged girls from FSBD or from any deaf sschools?

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course!

But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=Deborah;1023698][QUOTE=shel90;1023691]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course!

But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

I can ask around...

AlleyCat · 07-01-2008, 03:37 PM

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

jillio · 07-01-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

\

Oh, ok--like a "running commentary" as things are being said. Hmm... yeah, that would be MUCH better if it was then transferred into print, printed out at the end of class, and given to each student. I do like the idea of real time captioning, though--it can help clarify things sometimes. However, a student may have trouble knowing where to focus if they are having to always stare at the captioning screen. I don't know--I just like the idea of everything being translated into printed English--and a printed out hard copy would be a great study tool. The BEST thing would be to have a written transcript given to each student. If not, then I can see how it is almost a completely different tool otherwise. Hey, I am hearing, but I often wish that life worked a bit like closed-captioning tv, followed by a printed transcript afterward. I am definitely a visual learner--no matter how much I hear, I still prefer to have as much as possible in written or other visual format. I would imagine that is the case with deaf/hh people, too--what invention still needs to be made to facilitate that? If everyone could somehow walk around with a device that translates everything into print, saves it into memory, and can be printed out later--that sounds great! I can think of things that partially fit that need, but not completely--is there anything out there that would do all of that? If so, I want one!

Well, CART and other transcription services can provide a written transcript, but generally it is not used that way in an educational atmosphere. It is considered sufficient accommodation if a student is provided with a visual for the material that hearing students are getting orally. Unless we allow all hearing students to tape record lecture and classroom instruction, it is considered uneccessary to provide a written transcript that can be accessed outside of class for the deaf student.

jillio · 07-01-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

And excellent food for thought at that. I have often said that those who have been oral all of their lives will say that they are satisfied with it because they have no comparison.

jillio · 07-01-2008, 09:57 PM

[QUOTE=Deborah;1023698][QUOTE=shel90;1023691]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course!

But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

You could contact the counselor at FSDB, and see if she would find some girls your daughter's age that would be willing to correspond with her via email. It would also be a great way for all of them to practice their English writing skills.

**shel90** · 07-01-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

I am in the exact same shoes as your ex-hubby. I thought being oral was all that until I learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community. Like Jillo said, I had nothing to compare it with so I thought it was the best for me. Thank god I discovered ASL and the Deaf community cuz I cant imagine how miserable my life would be now being oral-only. *Shudders*

deafdyke · 07-01-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school.

Or how abt seeing if there's a summer camp style program at FSDB?

Buffalo · 07-02-2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Or how abt seeing if there's a summer camp style program at FSDB?

Good idea! if not, then look around for a summer camp for the Deaf in Florida or close by. I have been to a summer camp for the Deaf (Michigan) and it was fun.

iaskedalice09 · 10-10-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah

Hi! From your entry, I am assuming that you are a high school student...right? I would love to hear more about your experience in the "regular" high school--and I really hope that you continue to post here when you are a student at the Deaf school so that we can see things from "an inside view." I am also curious about the oral/ASL/Bi-Bi issue--from what you wrote, I am assuming that your family is oral and hearing and that you were raised orally--is that the case? If so, did you learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf in mainstream schools? I am trying to see if your experience is anything like my daughter's--hearing family/wears hearing aids and hears well with them/learned to speak by listening with her hearing aids/spoken English is her first language and she LOVES to talk/went to mainstreamed public schools and was the only deaf student for years/now wants to go to school with other deaf teenagers--trying to move to Florida and enroll in FSDB--oh, and she is trying to learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf so that she can communicate with ALL deaf people(those who speak, those who sign, those who do both).

I hope you will pardon my "wordiness"--I just get a bit excited when I meet another deaf teenager who may be feeling as my daughter is feeling. I have found a lot of information from deaf adults who can look back at their experiences in the past as deaf teenagers, but it is rare to actually communicate with a deaf teen who is currently going through these issues. If there is a way to link my daughter into a "deaf teen message board" I would love to do it--she NEEDS that connection and it is hard to find it!

Oh, and one more question--can you tell us a bit more about your feelings in different situations? Like, you said you prefer Bi-Bi--is that usually "voice off"? Is that when you are successfully communicating with others through ASL only? What about when communicating with other "oral deaf" teens? See, my daughter just wants to make some friends her age, who are deaf and wear hearing aids, and who talk to her. She wants to learn sign to communicate with other deaf people too, but she does NOT want to "turn her voice off" or "give up her voice"--she loves to talk too much!

As far as I can see, FSDB seems to have a "total communication" kind of atmosphere--from what I have learned from this board, that seems very different than a school that is more "Bi-Bi". My daughter would not feel comfortable in a school where there is a lot of pressure to "turn her voice off"--that just is not for her. Can you tell us a bit more about your feelings about Bi-Bi? I am trying to understand--and I am also seeing how very different deaf schools can be regarding communication issues. In other words, some deaf schools would be a good fit for some, but a bad fit for others--and vice versa. How can we compare based solely on the fact that they are "deaf schools"? We need to know their "communication philosophy" and their "communication atmosphere" to see if they would or would not be a "good fit" for us or our children. I hope that the school that you will be attending is a "good fit" for you--and I hope you have a very happy and successful high school career!

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

jillio · 10-11-2008, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaskedalice09

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

Thanks for sharing your perspective as a deaf student!

**shel90** · 10-11-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaskedalice09

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

I agree with u on all counts especially our rights to access to language. that's my big battle here.

prayerflag · 11-12-2008, 08:10 PM

Shel90,

I put up a thread today titled 'residential versus mainstream education - which best?" I'm gathering information for a class assignment on this topic and would love to have your personal perspective specific to my questions. My post and profile will tell you more.
Any other sources you could suggest would also be helpful.

Thanks for being so prolific,
prayerflag

prayerflag · 11-12-2008, 08:14 PM

iaskedalice09,
You gave so much info above, I'd like to ask you two questions? Could you respond to my thread on "residential versus mainstream education - which best?". I know you've already given much, but specific input from you would be great. Also, may I use information you've offered in responding to my current class assignment? My post and profile will tell you more.

Thanks for all you've shared,
prayerflag

prayerflag · 11-12-2008, 08:49 PM

Deborah,
For an unbiased view of deaf education, you might try 'Hands and Voices' at handsandvoices.org. They do not take a stand on which is best, and seem to promote whatever type of education is the best fit for each individual child. You can reach the director, Leeanne Seaver, at the following:

www.parentadvocate@handsandvoices.org
OR
1-866-422-0422
OR
Hands and Voices National
P.O. Box 445
Carthage, IL 62321

I spoke with her today - she was very helpful.

Good luck in your continuing efforts with your daughter; such commitment on your part can only mean good things in the future.

Sincerely,
prayerflag

11-12-2008, 08:49 PM	#358 (permalink)
prayerflag Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	Deborah, For an unbiased view of deaf education, you might try 'Hands and Voices' at handsandvoices.org. They do not take a stand on which is best, and seem to promote whatever type of education is the best fit for each individual child. You can reach the director, Leeanne Seaver, at the following: www.parentadvocate@handsandvoices.org OR 1-866-422-0422 OR Hands and Voices National P.O. Box 445 Carthage, IL 62321 I spoke with her today - she was very helpful. Good luck in your continuing efforts with your daughter; such commitment on your part can only mean good things in the future. Sincerely, prayerflag Last edited by prayerflag; 11-12-2008 at 08:50 PM. Reason: misspelled URL

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07-01-2008, 01:42 PM	#341 (permalink)
Deborah Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 122	[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?[QUOTE] We aren't there yet, but we hope to be there soon. We haven't been able to "link up " with many students or parents there yet. Since we aren't there yet, it is hard to do long distance. However, we DID discover a blog written by a teenage girl who is in the blind program at FSDB. Her mother also contributes to the blog, and they often post things about the school. It proved to be a great way to see things from an insiders point-of-view--they LOVE FSDB--the girl is very happy there and the mother is very pleased with it, too. Yes, the deaf and blind programs are very different, but we can see through their perspective that people at FSDB seem very nice. The girl had been mainstreaming I think, and came to FSDB for middle school--she made lots of friends, loves her teachers and classes, and is VERY happy to be there. I commented on the blog and now the mother and I have been emailing back and forth. My daughter loved looking at the photos on the blog about her "dream school." If we could find more blogs like this one, it would be great! She would love to find a teenage girl in the deaf program online--she is looking through things like MySpace and Facebook--no luck yet. Maybe soon she can connect this way first, then meet some of her classmates in person as soon as we move. For now, she feels as if she already has one friend there this way--she would like to find more! I know the internet has it's danger zones, but it can be a great way to facilitate things like this when you can't physically be where you want to be yet. We even considered deaf summer camps, but they seemed to only be for Florida residents. We are trying very hard to become residents, but we are not yet, so there are some things we just can't do yet. Hopefully we will be very soon though!

07-01-2008, 03:37 PM	#346 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,770	I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.) It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect. Just food for thought ...

11-12-2008, 08:10 PM	#356 (permalink)
prayerflag Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	Shel90, I put up a thread today titled 'residential versus mainstream education - which best?" I'm gathering information for a class assignment on this topic and would love to have your personal perspective specific to my questions. My post and profile will tell you more. Any other sources you could suggest would also be helpful. Thanks for being so prolific, prayerflag

11-12-2008, 08:14 PM	#357 (permalink)
prayerflag Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	iaskedalice09, You gave so much info above, I'd like to ask you two questions? Could you respond to my thread on "residential versus mainstream education - which best?". I know you've already given much, but specific input from you would be great. Also, may I use information you've offered in responding to my current class assignment? My post and profile will tell you more. Thanks for all you've shared, prayerflag