meyag2

Umm,

I had post all the topic since I was new a week ago or so.

I'm sorry for my grammar english.

I've had struggle with grammar english.

I'm not alone, my other friends who's also deaf/hoh who has problem with grammar english.

My experience with some hearing people who made fun of deaf/hoh about grammar english, I remembered hearing student offended to deaf, "your grammar english's awful". That was a long time ago

I have to keep trying,
I took a writing class with my teacher who's also intrepeter. Boy, I'm not like a hearing person. But I'm not giving up, it's a challenge.

Deafness

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jillio

You don't need to apologize for your grammar. English grammar is a struggle for many people, deaf and hearing both. I know many hearing people who have horrible grammar.

You hang in there and keep trying. You will improve.

RilianSharp

Hm. Why is it so hard?

sequoias

Don't be sorry about your grammar. You will improve as time goes by. I have seen hearing people with bad grammar...generally the ones who use English as a second language or didn't get a good education or something like that. You can find plenty in other forums.

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jillio

I suppose you find nothing difficult. Must be nice to be able to do everything well and with ease.:rollLet me direct you back here: :http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...opinion-3.html


Oops....I see some grammatical errors!

Liebling:-)))

Don´t worry about your grammar... You are not only one in the world but million hearing and deaf have the problem with grammar, too.

Those Forums will help you to improve your English grammar when you visit Forum and read everyone´s posts.

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Brian

Like other say no need to apologize. Did you know that reading on forums (like AllDeaf.com), newspapers, books and even television with closed-captioning can help to improve one's literacy?

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-Brian

jillio

Absolutely!

Liza

MeYag, you sound like a determined person. Go for the gold

RilianSharp

Why are you reading stuff into my question that is not there? I don't see the part where I said, "Why is this so hard for you, dumby? It is easy-peasy for me-e!" I asked why it is hard. Care to shed light on my question or be you only rude?

I don't see any grammatical errors that I made on that page, but I know I have made quite a few on this site already.

Tousi

Before answering this, I gotta ask ya if'n yer deef.

jillio

Your question was rude. Think about it. Why do you think that the grammatical structure of a spoken language would be difficult for someone who can't hear that spoken language?

Matilda

I admit that I found it difficult to grasp the meaning of the words/sentences or most subjects when I was taught oral during my educational years. Even though my grammar and spelling were excellent but I have to admit when my speaking/writing a story or sentence was boring, bland, not creative.

It was about 20 years ago, that I chose to read easy books then onto deeper materials that helped me. There are some which are too deep for me to comprehend.

jillio

jillio

I've gotten ahold of a few of those books myself, Ozzie!

Matilda

Out of curosity, are you saying that there are differences between us and hearies in terms of comprehending reading and grammar? I wish I was very quick-witted or giving out snappy comebacks, so therefore is that what held me back due to lack of understanding during schooling?

jenni-m

Well, in my opinion, if you truly want to get better with English grammar... you must make yourself start using it as best you can.

It is very easy to fall back on what you know, but mixing things up -trains the mind-. Your brain is like a muscle, if you always do the same thing, or don't do much, it will stay the same or even decline.

I am not the best at English, and it took me a long time to learn. I think I may have a slight advantage in that I spent a lot less time learning a sign language, and use finger spelling a lot.

I still have problems understanding, especially when things are structured in ways that I don't usually do, and I have problems with metaphors and 'sarcasm' at times. But I have learned much just by reading. Lots and lots of reading. If I see a word I don't know, I look it up.

It kind of all starts out with 'see dog run', like they used to teach kids in books, except instead of knowing what words sound like, you know what they -look- like and what the ideas behind them are.

If you train yourself to do things differently, you don't have to get it all correct the first time (I still don't) but each time you look up the correct way to write something, start using it every time. Eventually that becomes a habit, and you can use that knowledge to expand your ability and vocabulary.

meyag2

Thanks Everyone.

To: Jillo,
Some hearing student at college, We felt that some hearing people who are too smart than US (deaf/hoh) because of grammar english. I remembered at college that some hearing people looked at us like we're stupid or dumb. and they don't seem interested in deaf when we're in hearing class.

And I came up to a hearing guy for help but he rejected me and totally ignored me like he doesn't want to be friend with me. (sigh, he's jerk). he rather friend with hearing only and he think he's too smart than me and my other deaf friends. It does hurt my feeling. I let it go and moved on.

So me and my deaf friend changed to class that we finally have english teacher for deaf class only for writing class. However, we are sad that our english teacher is moving to another state next fall. I'm thinking of going to different college.

jenni-m

Well, unfortunately there are a lot of people like that.
One, thing I was taught is this:
Just because someone 'talks' with an accent, that does not mean they -think- with one. You could be an incredibly intelligent person and not write English well, just like anyone else who has not learned it as well as others.

There are many -highly intelligent- people who do not speak or write English well, because it is not their language. Scientists, doctors, physicists... do if someone accuses you of being stupid only by the way you write, then they are the one being stupid.

sequoias

You do have a good point on that one. I have seen doctors, scientists, etc with grammar not as good as an average person with good grammar skills. It is nothing new, anyhow. As long they can read and comprehead instructions, then they will do the job just fine.

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Chase

Speech: Oversimplification, but most people learn the grammar of their native tongue by listening to speech and mimicking it, then practicing by talking with others.

Those who can't hear, can't mimic, and thus can't practice without special help.

Writing: Another oversimplification is writing is speech represented by visual code. If speech is delayed, then breaking the code of reading is usually delayed, resulting in poor reading skills.

But as Ozzie so wisely pointed out, any of us can overcome poor writing skills by first reading basic books, then expanding to ever advanced content. As with anything, the more we practice, the better we get.

Pay careful attention to the spelling, punctuation, and grammar of what you read, then practice, practice, practice writing in the same manner.

It's not easy for those who are deprived of the first steps by deaness, but those determined to read and write well can do so.

deafdyke

It's NOT a spoken language vs. visual language thing. Rather research has indicated that dhh kids make the same exact errors as people who are English as a Second Language. Also, it might be b/c a lot of dhh people have a disreprency between their verbal and nonverbal IQ scores.

jenni-m

This is very true. I still remember the time when I didn't know what punctuation was supposed to do... I used to make unnecessary marks all the time, like decoration, then I went through a phase of not using it at all. I also wrote random things and words, and did not have a clue what they meant, I guess I thought that was how it was supposed to be or something...

But now, writing -is- my main form of 'speech'.

Grummer

me too, got some bloody difficult books to read too, but i dont throw it away until the time is right (happened alot that i 'finally matured enough' in the head to read it, as always EVERYDAY i THINK about things, sometimes id think about things a a 1,000 times before i'd decide to do it, or read about it.....

Grummer

good points deafdyke, as usual you always good to bring up pithy research or hypothetical comments

Grummer

yeah i can relate with that, my handwriting is very shocking, its scribbles - thought i draw with alot of sensitivity (as my drawing art tutors says i attend drawing classes this year to refresh my old interest, go figure handwrite really shitty but draw well) hate to say I dont think my hand writing has improved since i was 10, while, I did write stuff in school but looking back well not as much as I should have so hence probably 'were let off' somehow as teachers praised and focused on my maths ( i was good back then now forgotten it all) computer programming was another like way back in 1985-1986 i was like the third top student in entire school on computer science , only the teachers didnt interact with me PROPERLY like (their subtle disablist attitudes masked their 'oh Grum can't do that, doesnt understand - maybe one day - sort of attitude - this sort of lack of insight teachers have on with deaf student in the present and in the past, does alot of damage. It is idiotic for teachers to assume its ok to give in and leave it.

Back to the point of handwriting (sorry for being so convoluted, maybe that's my thought-speech dialougne interferring the writing! - the very topic we're discussing right now) the thing about my hand writings is not uniform, it doesnt follow the imaginary lines for the mid-point of each letters (capitals and lower caps, and joining lines in writing as opposed to printing) is uneven though sometimes depending on the handwriting mood (not emotion mood -wierdly enough) the handwriting comes out really good , smooth and flowing leaning to the right side direction then sometime it would (i cant control it) flip over and lean to the left-side while still writing...... or the small loops in the little 'e's become too narrow as its becomes to easily mistaken for an 'i'......

the whole point im saying, ive noticed when ppl see my hand writing, esp strangers or ppl whose dont know me well, in "i cant hear you, let write this down communication tactics employed' then these people judge my intelligence by my handwriting , often the answers i get can be unfavourable.

im not sure if im sticking with this thread topics, but id thought id throw in a comment or two about handwriting along with the grammar problems
my grammer is problematic too, i have to work long and hard to fix, re-read it, and read again at later time/date then re-draft then send off.

like jenni=m i sometimes have trouble to organise my thoughts onto paper..... but when i write i use the computer and do a lot of copy/cut/paste until i get a sentence, paragraph right.....rarely i get a line right out once.... and i think its partly because im deaf, not 'wired' in both biologically and linguisically sense that socialisation/ verbalising communication from really young is something i did not have, i had to be trained in deaf units, and shit, and been verbally slower because of the mainstream oralist method applied on me i was slowly verbalised. I didnt hate it becuase as a child back then i did not know the difference i obliged but all the while bit by bit i slipped behind in class aand the peers outside school. Seem familar?

yeah well i partly think hearing teachers, (and not sure about the present Deaf/deaf teachers - that remain to be seen i know of a teacher aides who 'helps to remind sign language to teachers BUT she doesnt know jack shit about things.....so i kind of am frightened for the kids with this disasterous combination - along with a newly qualifed 'teacher of the deaf whose is hearing -with a 20-25 years teaching experience BUT with NO sign language abilty - ive met her and she is soooooo shyte like an old bag,mean oralist teacher type i cant believe it -anyway) are just lazy when it come to stop analysing the kids, and start FUCKING TEACHING , FORGET catergorising or doing any 'specialist' bullshit. Like i reckon as soon as they stop this erroneous ways of assuming , there would be a lot of difference and wonderous results from the kids could be expected since to less intimidation brought on about from less 'intervention' that interferes with their learning in school. Although some intervention are appropriate but I still think it could be done better and with less over-analysiing.
my 2 cents