Is mainstream good for deaf? - Page 6

jillio · 05-20-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fivesolasjz

I experienced being in a public school and was onced called myself "regular" student in a majority of hearing children. I went to a school for the Deaf for several years before I enrolled nto a public school system. I was the only deaf student in entire system and I have my regerts in some ways. I missed out the fun-socialize life while I was kid and now I graduated from a hearing university and experienced the same way I have went through in school. I am blessed to learn the difference between the deaf way and the hearing way. Unfortunately, I do not support or would advocate mainstreaming programs in public school because of a large percent of the deaf students that graduated from public school tend to become very isolated and not funcation very well in the society; compare to the deaf residential graduates tend to be able to adapt in a different settings in their course of their life. Another thing I would want to emphasis this is that I am very concerned about the future of our deaf generation--where is new leadership within the deaf communties? There are so many veteran Deaf leaders now are retired and not active involve in our deaf communites. We need more Deaf leadership people who do have a strong sense of unity and desire to protect the deaf culture and the value of deaf core.

Good posting!

Buffalo · 05-22-2008, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

To answer your question, Meggie... Yes I think it's good idea to be on mainstream because we live in real world where it's hard enough to survive. We (the disabled people) need to learn how to get along with mainstream and to function with them. Yes it is hard enough when we're in schools that have ignorant people, bullies, or administrators who are not very helpful.

Not at our expense. We need to get a good education without getting a lousy interperter who only took one sign language course. We need a good education so we can continue on to college if we wish so. It is the real world who need to get along with us and sadly many of them failed to get along with us. We need a school for the Deaf so we can have a proper socialization in order to have a health outlook on life. We need ASL like we need air to breathe.

Jiro · 05-22-2008, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

Not at our expense. We need to get a good education without getting a lousy interperter who only took one sign language course. We need a good education so we can continue on to college if we wish so. It is the real world who need to get along with us and sadly many of them failed to get along with us. We need a school for the Deaf so we can have a proper socialization in order to have a health outlook on life. We need ASL like we need air to breathe.

I don't think the school would hire an interpreter with just one sign language course. Doesn't she/he have to be certified to be a competent interpreter? It's not the real world who need to get along with us. There are far too many of them and too few of us to represent as the majority so it's us who need to get along with them. In School for Deaf - they only socialize with deaf people. They would not have enough experience to interact with hearing people. (please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I've never been to deaf school).

And yes of course you can learn ASL and have interpreter with you anywhere - at schools and work. I doubt the interpreter would be that incompetent with only 1 ASL course. My friend is deaf and has an interpreter with her thru whole schools - mainstream high school and college. She went to the MIT as mechanical engineer. Now she works for biggest firm for automobiles (I can't remember the name). She's extremely smart and excels in any classes. Perfect score in SAT and GMAT. My point is - well life's not easy. don't limit your lifestyle because of your disability. Any one of us can exceed past our limitation if you want to and disability is of no concern because there is always a solution for our disability. Handicapped? no problem - wheelchair. Deaf? no problem - ASL or CI. Blind? no problem - braille. Remember NY Governor? He's blind. Look at Stephen Hawkins too! How can a man with no mobility at all be a cosmology genius?

jillio · 05-22-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

I don't think the school would hire an interpreter with just one sign language course. Doesn't she/he have to be certified to be a competent interpreter? It's not the real world who need to get along with us. There are far too many of them and too few of us to represent as the majority so it's us who need to get along with them. In School for Deaf - they only socialize with deaf people. They would not have enough experience to interact with hearing people. (please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I've never been to deaf school).
Children whohave been educated in themainstream, when looked at as a group, have notoriously delayed social skills as a result of the isolation caused by restricted interaction with peers and teachers. Children educated at a deaf school, shere communication is not restricted, are able to interact with peers and teachers without restriction, and therefore develop more advanced social skills. This facillitates interaction with the hearing world.

And yes of course you can learn ASL and have interpreter with you anywhere - at schools and work. I doubt the interpreter would be that incompetent with only 1 ASL course. My friend is deaf and has an interpreter with her thru whole schools - mainstream high school and college. She went to the MIT as mechanical engineer. Now she works for biggest firm for automobiles (I can't remember the name). She's extremely smart and excels in any classes. Perfect score in SAT and GMAT. My point is - well life's not easy. don't limit your lifestyle because of your disability. Any one of us can exceed past our limitation if you want to and disability is of no concern because there is always a solution for our disability. Handicapped? no problem - wheelchair. Deaf? no problem - ASL or CI. Blind? no problem - braille. Remember NY Governor? He's blind. Look at Stephen Hawkins too! How can a man with no mobility at all be a cosmology genius?

Are you actually saying that 1 ASL course is sufficient to interpret? If so, I will have to strongly disagree with that one. Interpreting is more than knowing sign vocabulary. One ASL course hardly provides enough fluency to carry on a conversation, much less interpret.

Jiro · 05-22-2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Are you actually saying that 1 ASL course is sufficient to interpret? If so, I will have to strongly disagree with that one. Interpreting is more than knowing sign vocabulary. One ASL course hardly provides enough fluency to carry on a conversation, much less interpret.

OH CRAP! I mistyped it. It's supposed to say - I doubt the interpreter would be that competent with only 1 ASL course. Thank you for pointing it out.

Quote:

Children whohave been educated in themainstream, when looked at as a group, have notoriously delayed social skills as a result of the isolation caused by restricted interaction with peers and teachers. Children educated at a deaf school, shere communication is not restricted, are able to interact with peers and teachers without restriction, and therefore develop more advanced social skills. This facillitates interaction with the hearing world.

I see. I somehow feel that deaf people who socialized a lot with deaf people at deaf school tends to stick with their own kind. Usually, it is a nice gateway to hearing world by having hearing friend. But that's my opinion.

jillio · 05-22-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

OH CRAP! I mistyped it. It's supposed to say - I doubt the interpreter would be that competent with only 1 ASL course. Thank you for pointing it out.

I see. I somehow feel that deaf people who socialized a lot with deaf people at deaf school tends to stick with their own kind. Usually, it is a nice gateway to hearing world by having hearing friend. But that's my opinion.

Who says children who attend deaf school don't have hearing friends? The vast majority come from hearing families.

Jiro · 05-22-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Who says children who attend deaf school don't have hearing friends? The vast majority come from hearing families.

families and friends are different. Can you say for certainty that most deaf children attending deaf school will be in mainstream life? You'll have to correct my view on deaf school because I have never gone there nor do I know any deaf friend (except just 1 but she was on mainstream path).

jillio · 05-22-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

families and friends are different. Can you say for certainty that most deaf children attending deaf school will be in mainstream life? You'll have to correct my view on deaf school because I have never gone there nor do I know any deaf friend (except just 1 but she was on mainstream path).

Well, my son attended a deaf school. 80% of their graduates go on to attend mainstream colleges. And any deaf person who has a job will be interacting with mainstream society.
If a deaf person goes to the doctor or the dentist, chances are they will be interacting with hearing society. If they eat in a restaurant, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. If they drop their clothes off at a dry cleaners, pick a prescription up at the pharmacy, or go to the grocery store, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. It can't be avoided.

Likewise, if a deaf child comes from a hearing family, simply by that family's association with other families, they will be in contact with hearing peers. Chances are better that their neighbors and playmates will be hearing that that they will be deaf. That is why the deaf school provides an environment that gives them the opportunity to interact with peers that are the same as them so that they are not constantly reminded of their difference, and hold themselves to hearing standards. Likewise with being exposed to deaf adults that can serve as mentors.

The point is that the mainstream environment does not provide for the educational needs of the deaf students, nor for the psychosocial developmental needs.

Bottesini · 05-22-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, my son attended a deaf school. 80% of their graduates go on to attend mainstream colleges. And any deaf person who has a job will be interacting with mainstream society.
If a deaf person goes to the doctor or the dentist, chances are they will be interacting with hearing society. If they eat in a restaurant, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. If they drop their clothes off at a dry cleaners, pick a prescription up at the pharmacy, or go to the grocery store, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. It can't be avoided.

Likewise, if a deaf child comes from a hearing family, simply by that family's association with other families, they will be in contact with hearing peers. Chances are better that their neighbors and playmates will be hearing that that they will be deaf. That is why the deaf school provides an environment that gives them the opportunity to interact with peers that are the same as them so that they are not constantly reminded of their difference, and hold themselves to hearing standards. Likewise with being exposed to deaf adults that can serve as mentors.

The point is that the mainstream environment does not provide for the educational needs of the deaf students, nor for the psychosocial developmental needs.

Sorry to jump in your argument. I am the prime example of the mainstreamer with unmet psychosocial developmental needs. So I agree with that part of argument against mainstreaming. And I did get picked on a lot. But my children(hearing) told me when they went to school that people are more sensitive today and less mean.

jillio · 05-22-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Sorry to jump in your argument. I am the prime example of the mainstreamer with unmet psychosocial developmental needs. So I agree with that part of argument against mainstreaming. And I did get picked on a lot. But my children(hearing) told me when they went to school that people are more sensitive today and less mean.

I would certainly hope so, but it is not what I am finding in the public school systems.

Thanks for your confirmation on the psychosocial needs.

And no need to apologize. All are welcome to express their opinions and their experience.

Jiro · 05-22-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, my son attended a deaf school. 80% of their graduates go on to attend mainstream colleges. And any deaf person who has a job will be interacting with mainstream society.
If a deaf person goes to the doctor or the dentist, chances are they will be interacting with hearing society. If they eat in a restaurant, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. If they drop their clothes off at a dry cleaners, pick a prescription up at the pharmacy, or go to the grocery store, they will be interacting with mainstream hearing society. It can't be avoided.

Likewise, if a deaf child comes from a hearing family, simply by that family's association with other families, they will be in contact with hearing peers. Chances are better that their neighbors and playmates will be hearing that that they will be deaf. That is why the deaf school provides an environment that gives them the opportunity to interact with peers that are the same as them so that they are not constantly reminded of their difference, and hold themselves to hearing standards. Likewise with being exposed to deaf adults that can serve as mentors.

The point is that the mainstream environment does not provide for the educational needs of the deaf students, nor for the psychosocial developmental needs.

hhmmmm.... very true. I suppose I can attest to that because I remember my intelligence level exceeded my peers by 2 grades ahead but the school did not want me to skip grade because my social development (or whatever you call it) was lagging - in other word immatured. Thanks for information. I guess I'll know what to do if I ever have a deaf child. It was difficult enough for me as HOH in mainstream schools. I can imagine such difficulty for deaf child.

jillio · 05-22-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

hhmmmm.... very true. I suppose I can attest to that because I remember my intelligence level exceeded my peers by 2 grades ahead but the school did not want me to skip grade because my social development (or whatever you call it) was lagging - in other word immatured. Thanks for information. I guess I'll know what to do if I ever have a deaf child. It was difficult enough for me as HOH in mainstream schools. I can imagine such difficulty for deaf child.

Absolutely!

Buffalo · 05-22-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

I don't think the school would hire an interpreter with just one sign language course. Doesn't she/he have to be certified to be a competent interpreter? It's not the real world who need to get along with us. There are far too many of them and too few of us to represent as the majority so it's us who need to get along with them. In School for Deaf - they only socialize with deaf people. They would not have enough experience to interact with hearing people. (please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I've never been to deaf school).

I have read the part about an interpreter for the deaf who took only one course of ASL but I can't recall where I had read it - in here or elsewhere. I am not surprised because of the closing of deaf schools and increasing mainstreaming the deaf kids. All these result in needing interpreters for the deaf. So why not take in an interpreter without any certification? The schools are that desperate. Just look at Webexplorer's experience with interpreters.

I think the world need to get along with us because it is the world who made things very difficult for us by refusing to learn ASL, refusing to hire us, preventing us from this and that. I find that astounding that they expected us to lipreading/speaking with our four senses while they don't learn ASL with their all 5 senses. To top it all, they even think they are better than us!!! If they know what is best for us, then why are they failing us big time.

I agree with you that the Deaf people should be more independent. How can they do that if the hearing people are in the way? How can they do that if the hearing people facilitate dependency by doing everything for the Deaf and not teaching them to do things themselves? Too often, the hearing people don't tell them anything they need to know. They just left them in dark about many things. That is why I want to see the Deaf people get a good education in everything - not just school but also anything to do with everyday life.

Webexplorer's interpreters:
http://www.alldeaf.com/captioning-si...preter-me.html

Problem in getting qualifed interpreter for court process (Wisc.):
FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO LOVE (Part 1) «

Lawyer thinks it is okay to use the client's 9 yrs old boy as interpreter:
- National Association of the Deaf

shel90 · 05-22-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

OH CRAP! I mistyped it. It's supposed to say - I doubt the interpreter would be that competent with only 1 ASL course. Thank you for pointing it out.

I see. I somehow feel that deaf people who socialized a lot with deaf people at deaf school tends to stick with their own kind. Usually, it is a nice gateway to hearing world by having hearing friend. But that's my opinion.

Well, I was around only hearing peers except for my best friend who is also deaf. I had no clue what they talked about in socialization groups cuz I couldnt keep up with everyone talking at once since I depended on lipreading rather than my hearing. How does that help me to develop socializing skills if I was missing out on almost everything? At least in a group of deaf signers, I would learn how to socialize with others.

Besides, so what if deaf stick together? hearies stick together and nobody says anything. If deaf people HAVE to socialize with hearing people then why not all hearing people socialize with deaf people too? To me it is like saying deaf people arent good enough for each other. We are all humans despite our hearing status.

Not trying to nitpick you or anything but I constantly get this kind of view from the medical community, oral educators and parents. That deaf children need to interact with hearing children instead of other deaf children. It just seems like that because one is deaf, one is considered as a bad role model or something like that.

Blackpaws76 · 05-29-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meggie2

I am interest in your comment. I am attending public school and soon will graduate in couple weeks. I am Hard-hearing, if you are interest. What i have seen that there is only few deaf attend public school.

Its depends on where deaf people and families live. I went to mainstream school all the way (K to 12). I graduated from VERY SMALL high school because I used lived on the farm called MERINO, Colorado! My family still live there. Merino is southwest of Sterling in Colorado. I graduated with 24 kids! I am glad that I went there and I was satisfied with that school I went since they had a good program for me to help me to get thru school and I had speech specialist came once a week during school till I was junior in high school. My parents asked me if I wanted to go to deaf school in Colorado Springs, I said NO NO!! because I was REALLY involved in SPORTS, so I stayed with the public school and I had interpreters there since I was only one DEAF in that school.

Buffalo · 05-31-2008, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Besides, so what if deaf stick together? hearies stick together and nobody says anything. If deaf people HAVE to socialize with hearing people then why not all hearing people socialize with deaf people too? To me it is like saying deaf people arent good enough for each other. We are all humans despite our hearing status.

Agreed. I have heard of complaints that the deaf people are clannish. I can say that hearing people are also clannish as they usually don't want to hang out with a deaf person.

Matilda · 05-31-2008, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

Agreed. I have heard of complaints that the deaf people are clannish. I can say that hearing people are also clannish as they usually don't want to hang out with a deaf person.

On the button!

CrzyMeg · 06-06-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I'm sorry, Meggie, I don't remember if you said or not: did you have an interpreter with you in the classroom?

This moment yes. since 4th grade

RedFox · 06-14-2008, 06:32 PM

I didn't socialize so much when I moved from my elementary school deaf class to full mainstreaming in 7th grade. I was getting bored and going nuts at home about not having a social life. My schoolwork kept me distracted from that so I did a lot of work and ended up doing really well like I did in elementary school. So I got to know other smart kids and ended up eating lunch with them and doing activities with them like National Honor Society community service and dances. My high school class had an unusual number of smart students. They'd usually name the top ten. For ours, they listed the top 20 and I was second.

I also saw some deaf friends I knew from elementary school each weekend and we'd go out to lunch sometimes. That way, my head didn't explode from being lonely.

At RIT, two people were once talking in Gracies and they saw me and made comments about how sad it is that mainstreamed people have lousy social lives. I got one at RIT that involved plenty of drama sometimes. At at some points, the drama got Public Safety involved (I was the one who imed them at the urging of one of my roomies). It also nearly resulted in injuries and at one point, almost resulted in several people, including me, getting killed on campus. No wonder there is a Facebook group about not wanting deaf drama.

Another time in Gracies, I showed someone a story I was writing for fun and she was amazed at my good grammar. That reminds me of when people like my mom told me about some deaf schools, NYSDD in particular, being terrible and graduating people with 3rd-4th grade level English. I know two people who graduated from that school who are doing fine with good English because they were smart and not lazy like some other people I've seen.

Now I'm living with a hearing person in a pretty little Vermont village and visited the nearest deaf school, Austine, for a sign language show. There, I met someone who remembered me from RIT who invited me to go camping up in Grand Isle, which was fun. I hope to get involved in deaf stuff around here.

CrzyMeg · 06-15-2008, 06:10 PM

I don't socialize much in deaf community. I do socialize sometimes.

Miss-Delectable · 06-16-2008, 01:15 AM

Sometimes mainstream is not a good option because teachers, sometimes, can be seen to have different standard or expectation for the deaf and the hearing.

Like they might expect the hearing to put their all into pulling good grades and don't expect the same of the deaf students.

shel90 · 06-16-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss-Delectable

Sometimes mainstream is not a good option because teachers, sometimes, can be seen to have different standard or expectation for the deaf and the hearing.

Like they might expect the hearing to put their all into pulling good grades and don't expect the same of the deaf students.

Get this...my friend went to North Carolina last week to test the test for a job with the United States Post Office..she learned, to her dismay, that the passing scores had been lowered by 50% just for the deaf takers. I can believe that mainstreamed teachers may do the same when it comes to tests.

06-15-2008, 06:10 PM	#170 (permalink)
CrzyMeg I love Toby Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 5,499 Blog Entries: 1	I don't socialize much in deaf community. I do socialize sometimes. __________________ "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart." Anne Frank GO PIRATES! Pensacola Junior College

06-16-2008, 01:15 AM	#171 (permalink)
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06-14-2008, 06:32 PM	#169 (permalink)
RedFox Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bellows Falls, VT Posts: 1,195	I didn't socialize so much when I moved from my elementary school deaf class to full mainstreaming in 7th grade. I was getting bored and going nuts at home about not having a social life. My schoolwork kept me distracted from that so I did a lot of work and ended up doing really well like I did in elementary school. So I got to know other smart kids and ended up eating lunch with them and doing activities with them like National Honor Society community service and dances. My high school class had an unusual number of smart students. They'd usually name the top ten. For ours, they listed the top 20 and I was second. I also saw some deaf friends I knew from elementary school each weekend and we'd go out to lunch sometimes. That way, my head didn't explode from being lonely. At RIT, two people were once talking in Gracies and they saw me and made comments about how sad it is that mainstreamed people have lousy social lives. I got one at RIT that involved plenty of drama sometimes. At at some points, the drama got Public Safety involved (I was the one who imed them at the urging of one of my roomies). It also nearly resulted in injuries and at one point, almost resulted in several people, including me, getting killed on campus. No wonder there is a Facebook group about not wanting deaf drama. Another time in Gracies, I showed someone a story I was writing for fun and she was amazed at my good grammar. That reminds me of when people like my mom told me about some deaf schools, NYSDD in particular, being terrible and graduating people with 3rd-4th grade level English. I know two people who graduated from that school who are doing fine with good English because they were smart and not lazy like some other people I've seen. Now I'm living with a hearing person in a pretty little Vermont village and visited the nearest deaf school, Austine, for a sign language show. There, I met someone who remembered me from RIT who invited me to go camping up in Grand Isle, which was fun. I hope to get involved in deaf stuff around here.

06-16-2008, 10:34 AM	#173 (permalink)
Buffalo Anobium Pertinax Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,467