Is mainstream good for deaf? - Page 4

shel90 · 05-10-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

Math is easier to do well at for deaf people cuz math is based on the black & white concept. Reading and writing is based on the gray concept.

What is the black & white concept? Well, there's only one WHITE and one BLACK. Therefore, the answer is either right or wrong. 1 + 1 = 2. Any other answer would be wrong. Simple as that.

What is the gray concept? Well, there are many different shades of gray. Some grays are darker and close to black and some grays are lighter and close to white. That means, you can be close to right or close to wrong... it just depends on how you write and read.

A lot of people would say that this is because of ASL. ASL does not affect your math skills. (It will likely affect your word problem skills, but not basic number skills.) I could sign, "TWO PLUS TWO. WHAT?" There is no other answer but "FOUR." With reading and writing, a person who doesn't fully understand proper vocabulary, grammar, and English... will struggle with getting it right.

eeeh..today's math is not based on just computation anymore. There is more language involved in the math curriculm than 20 years ago. Kids have to explain why and how they solved each problem they way they did. The standardizing tests require the kids to write an explaination of how they solved each problem and why. That starts in 3rd grade. This year, teaching math was a challenge cuz I had to teach my kids to think critically which is not an easy task to do but so far, my class has done well.

The days of simple computation are over. LOL!

That's why my daughter is struggling with math cuz she doesnt have a strong foundation in math to begin with. She changed schools so I guess her old school did a bad job setting that foundation when she was young so she has been playing catch up with her peers for the past few years. We even got tutors.

jillio · 05-10-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

That is best thing I remember. My parents always standing up for me. It was important and I bet your son won't forget either. (From different thread, but I am female. Spread the word.)

Hey, its what we are supposed to do as parents. But thank you.

I'll relate a quick story that happened recently that brought tears to my eyes. I was doing a presentation for an education class on teaching tolerance to K-6 grade students as part of a school counselor curriculum. My son happened to have come home the day I did the presentation, and he went with me to the class. He sat through the whole thing, and afterwards, as I was discussing the curriculum with the students, and talking about ways that it could be incorporated outside the classroom as well, my son raised his hand and asked if he could speak. He then told everyone that he had experienced some teasing and bullying because of his deafness, but that I had taught him to be proud of himself no matter what other people did or said, and that's what got him through it. He said "I might be deaf but my mom taught me that I am just as good as everyone else, so when she tellls you this is the way to deal with this stuff in schools, you should listen to her." I don't think I have ever been prouder of him than at that minute.

jillio · 05-10-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's true for some deaf people...their math skills are far superior than their reading/writing skills. I am just not one of them. I really struggle when it comes to math especially at the college level. I am good at algebra though.

You know, the way an algebraic equation is set up,the syntax is very similar to ASL syntax. I mean, you have to read the equation in the same sequence that you would read someone signing an ASL sentence. Maybe that's why.

PowerON · 05-10-2008, 10:37 PM

Being in mainstream, it's not always deaf who are good in math than english, I spend my life in school with some deaf students.

It end up that I'm good in math and and he isn't. Yet, he or she is better in English than I do. Maybe I'm in different city, different state.

I'm still learn in English as I'm continues to typing something as I enjoy.

Pepsi · 05-10-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I had a principal tell me the same thing about my son. I told them then he'd better get used to me being in his office every day raising hell!

Good for you,jillio. You're son has a great mom.

AlleyCat · 05-11-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou

No one is HOH or Deaf..... it is always Deaf! lolz

I don't quite understand that comment. Anyone can call themselves what they want. We've had that discussion elsewhere already.

Anyways, I was mainstreamed all my school years. I was in a different school from K-2 with about 8 or 9 other deaf students, and that was fun. 3rd grade and on, I was in my own home school district with no other deaf students. (the K-2 was outside my home school district) and that was TOUGH. I was bullied, picked on, everything. Socially, it was a disaster. My parents refused to consider anything else, stating that education above all else was the most important. I did graduate with honors and did very well academically, but the social ineptitude it left me with still sticks with me today. I chose RIT for college because of the NTID program and knew there would be many (thousands) of deafies I could socialize with. It did help tremendously to bring me out my shell, but ... it's still tough to be mainstreamed with no other deafies.

deafdyke · 05-11-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Experienced bullying as well. School sucked, to be honest. Not just for me, but for a lot of kids in the so-called mainstream.

OMG YES.
Parents, adminstrators etc are SO fucking naive. You read Exceptional Parent, and the manuals......they seem to think that once a kid is integrated into a classroom academicly, you don't have to worry about friendships.
The only thing that matters is academics. It wasn't nessarily straight out bullying.....more like this whitebread generic suburban "we're better then you" attitude. Some of the shit I went through in school was almost totally sociopathic. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have received an obscene letter, I would LOVE for the "experts" to be told "You suck!" when doing nothing more then walking on the side of the road. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have been thought of as retarded simply b/c of the way they talked. I would love for the "experts" to experiance things like always getting picked last in gym, or sitting alone at the lunch table. I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel like they didn't fit in.....I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel sucidal and islolated adrift from people. I would LOVE for the "experts" to experiance being told "Oh you're smart.....why aren't you doing better in school?" when they didn't even give me decent accomondations? (and as a matter of fact, in college I started doing well...like DEANS LIST when I was given the right accomondations. I really do think that if I'd been in a school where I got the right accomondations, I would be working on my Ph.D by now, and I wouldn't have depression and bipolar)

Yes, my experiances may seem extreme. But you know what? THIS SORT OF STUFF HAPPENS FAR TOO OFTEN!!!! I deal with the emotional aftereffects (I really do think that my mainstream experiance triggered my depression/bipolar)
OceanBreeze, you may have graduated twenty years ago......but things are still very much the same.

Quote:

I think a lot of deaf students were pushed through the system when growing up in the mainstreamed school

Yes indeedy. Social promotion....happens to hearies too!

***VamPyroX*** · 05-11-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Highlander

Do you actually read or "listen" to what you just said. Do you actually enjoy trying to make yourself into something that you are not?

What do you mean by making myself into something I'm not?

Oceanbreeze · 05-11-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

OMG YES.
Parents, adminstrators etc are SO fucking naive. You read Exceptional Parent, and the manuals......they seem to think that once a kid is integrated into a classroom academicly, you don't have to worry about friendships.
The only thing that matters is academics. It wasn't nessarily straight out bullying.....more like this whitebread generic suburban "we're better then you" attitude. Some of the shit I went through in school was almost totally sociopathic. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have received an obscene letter, I would LOVE for the "experts" to be told "You suck!" when doing nothing more then walking on the side of the road. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have been thought of as retarded simply b/c of the way they talked. I would love for the "experts" to experiance things like always getting picked last in gym, or sitting alone at the lunch table. I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel like they didn't fit in.....I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel sucidal and islolated adrift from people. I would LOVE for the "experts" to experiance being told "Oh you're smart.....why aren't you doing better in school?" when they didn't even give me decent accomondations? (and as a matter of fact, in college I started doing well...like DEANS LIST when I was given the right accomondations. I really do think that if I'd been in a school where I got the right accomondations, I would be working on my Ph.D by now, and I wouldn't have depression and bipolar)

Yes, my experiances may seem extreme. But you know what? THIS SORT OF STUFF HAPPENS FAR TOO OFTEN!!!! I deal with the emotional aftereffects (I really do think that my mainstream experiance triggered my depression/bipolar)
OceanBreeze, you may have graduated twenty years ago......but things are still very much the same.
Yes indeedy. Social promotion....happens to hearies too!

Maybe, but you're not alone. My first year of mainstreaming was third grade. The stories I could tell from that year alone, would make the average person cry.

But, Deafdyke... Your school experience didn't cause bipolar disorder. It may have aggravated it, but it didn't cause it. But, I get what you're saying.... Trauma in any form causes a bunch of problems that we need not have to deal with if we're only provided with the means to function in the environment we're in.

deafskeptic · 05-11-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Maybe, but you're not alone. My first year of mainstreaming was third grade. The stories I could tell from that year alone, would make the average person cry.

But, Deafdyke... Your school experience didn't cause bipolar disorder. It may have aggravated it, but it didn't cause it. But, I get what you're saying.... Trauma in any form causes a bunch of problems that we need not have to deal with if we're only provided with the means to function in the environment we're in.

I concur with you here. I have an OCD which I do not want to discuss here and my family's reaction to it and my undx'd addhd made my mainstream experience much worse than it should have been. I didn't even tell anyone about it till this forum and I found out that my experience seem to have been much worse than what many of them went through. Mainstream didn't cause my OCD but it certainly made a bad situation much worse than it should've been.

shel90 · 05-11-2008, 10:59 AM

What do u think about mainstreamed programs that have no clue how to serve deaf children so instead of consulting with someone who is trained in the field of deaf education, they place the children in classes with other children who have mental retardation, severe LD, austistic, or with behavior disorders?

It makes me outraged because it should not be happening and those children deserve to be taught using the regular ed curriculm not a life-based curriculm!

jillio · 05-11-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Lover

Good for you,jillio. You're son has a great mom.

jillio · 05-11-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Maybe, but you're not alone. My first year of mainstreaming was third grade. The stories I could tell from that year alone, would make the average person cry.

But, Deafdyke... Your school experience didn't cause bipolar disorder. It may have aggravated it, but it didn't cause it. But, I get what you're saying.... Trauma in any form causes a bunch of problems that we need not have to deal with if we're only provided with the means to function in the environment we're in.

I have to agree on that. For Bi-Polar to manifest, there has to be combination of a biological predisposition, and negative environmental impact that interact.

jillio · 05-11-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What do u think about mainstreamed programs that have no clue how to serve deaf children so instead of consulting with someone who is trained in the field of deaf education, they place the children in classes with other children who have mental retardation, severe LD, austistic, or with behavior disorders?

It makes me outraged because it should not be happening and those children deserve to be taught using the regular ed curriculm not a life-based curriculm!

**nodding** To do otherwise is to prevent these kids from realizing their full potential and to become fully productive members of society.

CrzyMeg · 05-11-2008, 04:15 PM

I agreed that kids need to realize their full potential and fully productive members of our society.

CrzyMeg · 05-11-2008, 04:58 PM

I Came To Full Potential And Fully Productive Member Of Deaf Society

deafdyke · 05-11-2008, 05:36 PM

LOL....sorry about that......But I do think that my experiance growing up in the mainstream was a VERY severe trigger for my bipolar issues. I know enviroment or genes cannot and usually don't trigger illnesses. It's usually a combonation.

Oceanbreeze · 05-11-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

LOL....sorry about that......But I do think that my experiance growing up in the mainstream was a VERY severe trigger for my bipolar issues. I know enviroment or genes cannot and usually don't trigger illnesses. It's usually a combonation.

Not to worry. I know what you're saying. It may not have caused it, but it made it worse.

CrzyMeg · 05-11-2008, 05:46 PM

My Fault. I Don't Tend To Do That.

CrzyMeg · 05-11-2008, 09:09 PM

First mainstreaming was 4 years old in kindergarten.

deafdyke · 05-12-2008, 01:09 AM

It really does seem like mainstreaming has only helped the small percentage of dhh folks who are either really high achiever types, (who very often are the kids who would have acheived any way....even before 1975, there were dhh kids who did really well mainstream!) or they are relatively late deafened. Mainstreaming it's too fucking easy for kids to fall through the cracks. Heck, sped kids aren't the only kids who are underacheiving........believe it or not, GIFTED kids often underacheive! So what that means, is that a public school tends to be targeted to that Mythical Average Learner.

jillio · 05-12-2008, 03:11 PM

You know what really bothers me is even those who claim academic success in the mainstream report socialization problems. School aged kids have many developmental tasks to complete, and the majority are dependent upon those kids being in an environment that helps them learn, through interaction with their peers, how to begin to individuate and develop relationships outside the family, as well as identity development. If they are in a school environment that does not allow for healthy resolution of the psychosocial tasks of childhood, the difficulties created for them last a lifetime, unless they receive help as adults to resolve what should have occurred naturally in childhood. In effect, they spend their adult years trying to learn those things that should have been learned in childhood, but they were prevented from doing so by an environment that restricted their psychosocial development.

A student who has achieved honor role grades, but is incapable of forming healthy relationships with others, has not developed a healthy self concept and has a fragmented identity is not going to be able to succeed in the world of employment. The whole purpose of the academic experience is to prepare a child to be a successful adult across the board. Part of the preparation includes being able to function as an individual and become self supporting not just financially, but socially, emotionally, and psychologically. What good have we done if we neglect these important issues involved in education?

shel90 · 05-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You know what really bothers me is even those who claim academic success in the mainstream report socialization problems. School aged kids have many developmental tasks to complete, and the majority are dependent upon those kids being in an environment that helps them learn, through interaction with their peers, how to begin to individuate and develop relationships outside the family, as well as identity development. If they are in a school environment that does not allow for healthy resolution of the psychosocial tasks of childhood, the difficulties created for them last a lifetime, unless they receive help as adults to resolve what should have occurred naturally in childhood. In effect, they spend their adult years trying to learn those things that should have been learned in childhood, but they were prevented from doing so by an environment that restricted their psychosocial development.

A student who has achieved honor role grades, but is incapable of forming healthy relationships with others, has not developed a healthy self concept and has a fragmented identity is not going to be able to succeed in the world of employment. The whole purpose of the academic experience is to prepare a child to be a successful adult across the board. Part of the preparation includes being able to function as an individual and become self supporting not just financially, but socially, emotionally, and psychologically. What good have we done if we neglect these important issues involved in education?

I am one of them. Boy, was I so screwed up when I look back on who I was in high school. My best friend just sent me a long email a few hours ago about her life and how much she hates it. She said being a mom puts her right back to high school. Something about her habit of putting herself on a pedestal to meet everyone's level of trying to please them. That unhealthy self-image came from being mainstreamed and she is still dealing with it because she has yet immersed herself full time in the Deaf community like I did. I used to have the same self-image of myself until I went to Gallaudet and separated from my ex hubby.

Everyone thinks because we were able to graduate from college, can communicate with hearing people, or whatever, we are both successful mainstreamed oral deaf people but they HAVE or HAD no idea what both of us had to go through or are dealing with. At least most of my issues have been resolved but hers...she still has a long long way to go and she may not get to where I am if she continues to be around hearing people who treat her like a 2nd class citizen.

Oceanbreeze · 05-12-2008, 05:34 PM

Being hearing, but also apart of Sped and mainstreaming, I had similiare issues. When I entered the school system at the age of 4, they labelled me MR. I was NOT MR, but that's the label they placed on me. It soon became apparent that I could learn and be on par with kids my own age. My parents fought to have me placed in a mainstreaming environment, but once that was accomplished (it took 4 yrs), I had other issues. They said that if I was to be mainstreamed, I had to be bussed to my regular neighborhood school. Fine. I was, but with that came all the teasing, redicule, bullying and terrorism I endured simply because I was "different". I was the only student in the school who was wheelchair bound. Yes, I was with my peers. Yes, I was learning, but at what cost?

I will tell you the cost. I went on to develop depression, GAD and a whole host of other things. I was quiet. I only interacted with my sister or when I was around family. Socially, I was very unsure of myself. And, those issues didn't go away once I graduated. Today, I struggle with GAD and other mental illnesses. I have trust issues. I have a social phobia and the list goes on.

For me personally, both Special Ed and mainstreaming were bad. The Sped curriculum wasn't advanced enough to meet my needs, and yet, the mainstream was downright cruel.

Where's the middle ground if there is one?

05-10-2008, 10:37 PM	#94 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,780 Blog Entries: 1	Being in mainstream, it's not always deaf who are good in math than english, I spend my life in school with some deaf students. It end up that I'm good in math and and he isn't. Yet, he or she is better in English than I do. Maybe I'm in different city, different state. I'm still learn in English as I'm continues to typing something as I enjoy. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

05-11-2008, 10:59 AM	#101 (permalink)
shel90 Sun Whorshipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 16,119 Blog Entries: 1	What do u think about mainstreamed programs that have no clue how to serve deaf children so instead of consulting with someone who is trained in the field of deaf education, they place the children in classes with other children who have mental retardation, severe LD, austistic, or with behavior disorders? It makes me outraged because it should not be happening and those children deserve to be taught using the regular ed curriculm not a life-based curriculm! __________________ ~Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

05-12-2008, 05:34 PM	#114 (permalink)
Oceanbreeze Happy Holidays to all! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: S. FL Posts: 6,841	Being hearing, but also apart of Sped and mainstreaming, I had similiare issues. When I entered the school system at the age of 4, they labelled me MR. I was NOT MR, but that's the label they placed on me. It soon became apparent that I could learn and be on par with kids my own age. My parents fought to have me placed in a mainstreaming environment, but once that was accomplished (it took 4 yrs), I had other issues. They said that if I was to be mainstreamed, I had to be bussed to my regular neighborhood school. Fine. I was, but with that came all the teasing, redicule, bullying and terrorism I endured simply because I was "different". I was the only student in the school who was wheelchair bound. Yes, I was with my peers. Yes, I was learning, but at what cost? I will tell you the cost. I went on to develop depression, GAD and a whole host of other things. I was quiet. I only interacted with my sister or when I was around family. Socially, I was very unsure of myself. And, those issues didn't go away once I graduated. Today, I struggle with GAD and other mental illnesses. I have trust issues. I have a social phobia and the list goes on. For me personally, both Special Ed and mainstreaming were bad. The Sped curriculum wasn't advanced enough to meet my needs, and yet, the mainstream was downright cruel. Where's the middle ground if there is one? __________________ "And I don't want the world to see me 'Cause I don't think that they'd understand When everything's made to be broken I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

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05-11-2008, 04:15 PM	#105 (permalink)
CrzyMeg I love Toby Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 5,499 Blog Entries: 1	I agreed that kids need to realize their full potential and fully productive members of our society.

05-11-2008, 04:58 PM	#106 (permalink)
CrzyMeg I love Toby Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 5,499 Blog Entries: 1	I Came To Full Potential And Fully Productive Member Of Deaf Society

05-11-2008, 05:36 PM	#107 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,684	LOL....sorry about that......But I do think that my experiance growing up in the mainstream was a VERY severe trigger for my bipolar issues. I know enviroment or genes cannot and usually don't trigger illnesses. It's usually a combonation.

05-11-2008, 05:46 PM	#109 (permalink)
CrzyMeg I love Toby Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 5,499 Blog Entries: 1	My Fault. I Don't Tend To Do That.

05-11-2008, 09:09 PM	#110 (permalink)
CrzyMeg I love Toby Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 5,499 Blog Entries: 1	First mainstreaming was 4 years old in kindergarten.

05-12-2008, 01:09 AM	#111 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,684	It really does seem like mainstreaming has only helped the small percentage of dhh folks who are either really high achiever types, (who very often are the kids who would have acheived any way....even before 1975, there were dhh kids who did really well mainstream!) or they are relatively late deafened. Mainstreaming it's too fucking easy for kids to fall through the cracks. Heck, sped kids aren't the only kids who are underacheiving........believe it or not, GIFTED kids often underacheive! So what that means, is that a public school tends to be targeted to that Mythical Average Learner.

05-12-2008, 03:11 PM	#112 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,163	You know what really bothers me is even those who claim academic success in the mainstream report socialization problems. School aged kids have many developmental tasks to complete, and the majority are dependent upon those kids being in an environment that helps them learn, through interaction with their peers, how to begin to individuate and develop relationships outside the family, as well as identity development. If they are in a school environment that does not allow for healthy resolution of the psychosocial tasks of childhood, the difficulties created for them last a lifetime, unless they receive help as adults to resolve what should have occurred naturally in childhood. In effect, they spend their adult years trying to learn those things that should have been learned in childhood, but they were prevented from doing so by an environment that restricted their psychosocial development. A student who has achieved honor role grades, but is incapable of forming healthy relationships with others, has not developed a healthy self concept and has a fragmented identity is not going to be able to succeed in the world of employment. The whole purpose of the academic experience is to prepare a child to be a successful adult across the board. Part of the preparation includes being able to function as an individual and become self supporting not just financially, but socially, emotionally, and psychologically. What good have we done if we neglect these important issues involved in education?