Opinion survey; isolation in mainstream oral only schools

dreamchaser · 05-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Do you think that mainstreamed kids who don't have sign feel lonely or isolated at school? I am doing a survey. I want to know what you think and not just what the experts say.

Thanks for taking the time to answer this. If you have a story to share about a good experience or a bad experience, please share.

Rock on and happy Friday.

jillio · 05-02-2008, 11:15 AM

My short answer to your question is "Yes."

Gemma · 05-02-2008, 11:28 AM

My answer is Hell YES! Been there - hated it - it was such an agony.

***Chase*** · 05-02-2008, 12:29 PM

My sister ran away from an oral-only school back in the days when it was policy, not just an audist teacher's personal vendetta, to punish signers.

The idea of coping without sign isn't limited to schools. I feel lonely and isolated in any extended oral-only setting.

deafdyke · 05-02-2008, 06:56 PM

Yes. Off the top of my head, its fairly common for mainstream and oral organizations to have "social" issues as a topic at their conferences.

shel90 · 05-02-2008, 07:33 PM

Being mainstreamed really sucked but even sucked more because I was in a strictly-oral only environment.

U wouldnt believe all the emotional/social issues I had to endure and work through to be the person who I am no thanks to be mainstreaming.

Ozzie · 05-02-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemma

My answer is Hell YES! Been there - hated it - it was such an agony.

DITTO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Being mainstreamed really sucked but even sucked more because I was in a strictly-oral only environment.

U wouldnt believe all the emotional/social issues I had to endure and work through to be the person who I am no thanks to be mainstreaming.

DITTO!

undecisivegurl · 05-02-2008, 08:47 PM

Yes. People are definitely lonely when they are placed in mainstream oral schools. How can they communicate freely if they can't do their oral skills that well? It's too depressing to think about.

Boult · 05-02-2008, 08:54 PM

Mainstream or "Deaf School?" Both! Say Deaf Students (feature from Perspectives: in Education and Deafness; November-December 1997 issue --a publication of Pre-College National Mission Programs)

http://clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/InfoToGO/096.pdf

Raising Deaf Kids

deafedcomparison - Residential or Mainstream?Â Deaf Schools vs Hearing Schools

Just throwing links in here...

of course isolations do occur in mainstreaming way in the past when there were no IEP or such. for example;
Amazon.com: Alone in the Mainstream: A Deaf Woman Remembers Public School (Deaf Lives Series, Vol. 1): Gina A. Oliva: Books

But it's not 1950's today...

deafdyke · 05-02-2008, 09:33 PM

Boult, an IEP cannot really help with socialization. It doesn't help if there's a snobby/ whitebread school population or if the teachers have NO clue whatsoever how to teach kids like us. Hell.........kids with learning disabilites (most common sped disabilty) often have significent social-emotional issues.
Very often socio-emotional issues are the direct result of not having a good grasp on language. Most oral kids have OK oral skills, but they aren't sophisticated enough to use socially.

deafbajagal · 05-02-2008, 10:37 PM

Big YES!

Lavender · 05-03-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

My sister ran away from an oral-only school back in the days when it was policy, not just an audist teacher's personal vendetta, to punish signers.

I was the opposite run away from deaf school when I was in h.s.

jillio · 05-03-2008, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Boult, an IEP cannot really help with socialization. It doesn't help if there's a snobby/ whitebread school population or if the teachers have NO clue whatsoever how to teach kids like us. Hell.........kids with learning disabilites (most common sped disabilty) often have significent social-emotional issues.
Very often socio-emotional issues are the direct result of not having a good grasp on language. Most oral kids have OK oral skills, but they aren't sophisticated enough to use socially.

I agree. The IEP does not help with psychosocial issues, or with socialization. And, quite often, the IEP is not even sufficient to help with the educational issues. The mainstream is guilty, in the case of the deaf.hoh student, of not including services that are appropriate or sufficient for education. The majority of IEPs for deaf children do not even include input from a TOD, but are completed by a team including a general education classroom teacher, a generic special ed. teacher, a counselor,( if you're lucky!), a principal, and a very confused parent. And the teams are known to be very coercive in getting parents to sign off on the IEP with as few services as they can get away with providing.

shel90 · 05-03-2008, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

Mainstream or "Deaf School?" Both! Say Deaf Students (feature from Perspectives: in Education and Deafness; November-December 1997 issue --a publication of Pre-College National Mission Programs)

http://clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/InfoToGO/096.pdf

Raising Deaf Kids

deafedcomparison - Residential or Mainstream?Â*Deaf Schools vs Hearing Schools

Just throwing links in here...

of course isolations do occur in mainstreaming way in the past when there were no IEP or such. for example;
Amazon.com: Alone in the Mainstream: A Deaf Woman Remembers Public School (Deaf Lives Series, Vol. 1): Gina A. Oliva: Books

But it's not 1950's today...

I had an IEP and yet, I was still pretty much isolated.

rick48 · 05-03-2008, 07:59 AM

Based on personal experiences-No.

Is there a universal answer to this question-No.

jillio · 05-03-2008, 09:12 AM

8 yes, 2 no.

vallee · 05-03-2008, 09:13 AM

My experience is no. I did not feel isolated in mainstream education.

dreamchaser · 05-03-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

Mainstream or "Deaf School?" Both! Say Deaf Students (feature from Perspectives: in Education and Deafness; November-December 1997 issue --a publication of Pre-College National Mission Programs)

http://clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/InfoToGO/096.pdf

Raising Deaf Kids

deafedcomparison - Residential or Mainstream?Â*Deaf Schools vs Hearing Schools

Just throwing links in here...

of course isolations do occur in mainstreaming way in the past when there were no IEP or such. for example;
Amazon.com: Alone in the Mainstream: A Deaf Woman Remembers Public School (Deaf Lives Series, Vol. 1): Gina A. Oliva: Books

But it's not 1950's today...

thank you so much for these links... I will glean everything I can from them..

dreamchaser · 05-03-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Based on personal experiences-No.

Is there a universal answer to this question-No.

Hi Rick, thanks for your post. I appreciate it and hope that we can find a common ground to be buds. Rock on, and I hope you and yours are well and happy.

deafdyke · 05-03-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

And the teams are known to be very coercive in getting parents to sign off on the IEP with as few services as they can get away with providing.

Tell me about it! It's like the mainstream doesn't even give a shit about the quality of the education....they just want the money that comes along with the student. I mean SHEESH. I didn't get a notetaker until I was a sophomore in high school (AND I have a fine motor skill disabilty) and never even GOT a TOD. TODs services tend to suck too........Two minutes with a TOD and then the student is signed off as having been provided services.

rick48 · 05-03-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

Hi Rick, thanks for your post. I appreciate it and hope that we can find a common ground to be buds. Rock on, and I hope you and yours are well and happy.

Me too!

deafdyke · 05-04-2008, 02:14 AM

and rick............it's awesome that your daughter did really well being mainstreamed. There are some kids who really do THRIVE in the mainstream.
However, it's pretty much a given that even kids who do well in the mainstream often have significent social-emotional issues. I know for example that social-emotional adjustment seems to be a perennial at the Clarke Mainstream conference as well as AG Bell conferences.
We're not anti-mainstream at ALL. More like, anti-mainstream as always the best educational setting.
It really does seem like organizations like AG Bell etc see mainstreaming as some sort of glorious utopia, with NO downsides.
It can be an appropreate setting for some kids.......but NOT all.And don't even get me started on the downsides. Its great that you had a great experiance.
Heck if mainstreaming was so good, then how come sped student acheivement hasn't risen as a whole in the thirty years that its become the norm?

dreamchaser · 05-04-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

and rick............it's awesome that your daughter did really well being mainstreamed. There are some kids who really do THRIVE in the mainstream.
However, it's pretty much a given that even kids who do well in the mainstream often have significent social-emotional issues. I know for example that social-emotional adjustment seems to be a perennial at the Clarke Mainstream conference as well as AG Bell conferences.
We're not anti-mainstream at ALL. More like, anti-mainstream as always the best educational setting.
It really does seem like organizations like AG Bell etc see mainstreaming as some sort of glorious utopia, with NO downsides.
It can be an appropreate setting for some kids.......but NOT all.And don't even get me started on the downsides. Its great that you had a great experiance.
Heck if mainstreaming was so good, then how come sped student acheivement hasn't risen as a whole in the thirty years that its become the norm?

Morning, Happy Sunday to all. Can you tell me where I can cite the data about the sped student achievement test? I forgot to mention when I started this thread that I am doing a research assignment for school about the emotional effects of mainstreaming. I am trying to represent all sides and then come to a conclusion in the end of what I think. If you want to give me a quote it would be cool. Thanks... And, yes I am too am glad that Ricks daughter thrived in mainstream school and that her CI works so well for her. She obviously had a lot of support from home etc. Many parents can't be that involved in their childs schooling, one from ignorance, two from money problems, other siblings, and having to work all the time. Some jobs will fire you if you miss for an IEP meeting. And of course, if the IEP is insufficetnt,, THe parents don't really even know it.

THanks for all... Forgive my typos,,, I am inundated with homework and just trying to hurry through everything I do...

dreamchaser · 05-04-2008, 12:23 PM

I posted a thread this week asking for opinions about mainstreaming and the emotional affects it has on Deaf children if they feel isolated.

I forgot to mention that the survey if for a shool research project. So any and all opinions are welcome. I need enough responses from the Deaf community to be able to use the data.

Like I mentioned, I don't want to base my paper on the experts only, because most of them are hearing and don't have a personal view based on experience. That is why I was asking for your help to tell your story. Both sides of the issue will be represented in my paper to the best of my ability.

I will post the paper when it is done.

I hate to post two posts about the same issue, but I don't think my first post was very clear about the nature of the quesiton .. Thanks guys,,,

still chasin the dream for a better tomorrow...

***VamPyroX*** · 05-04-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

I posted a thread this week asking for opinions about mainstreaming and the emotional affects it has on Deaf children if they feel isolated.

I forgot to mention that the survey if for a shool research project. So any and all opinions are welcome. I need enough responses from the Deaf community to be able to use the data.

Like I mentioned, I don't want to base my paper on the experts only, because most of them are hearing and don't have a personal view based on experience. That is why I was asking for your help to tell your story. Both sides of the issue will be represented in my paper to the best of my ability.

I will post the paper when it is done.

I hate to post two posts about the same issue, but I don't think my first post was very clear about the nature of the quesiton .. Thanks guys,,,

still chasin the dream for a better tomorrow...

Mod Note: Threads merged.

There's nothing wrong with bumping a previous thread to state your intentions. Posting a new thread that's similar to an old thread will likely make members think that it's a repeat and is likely to be ignored. Bumping it with a new message will still be read and more response will likely be made.

***VamPyroX*** · 05-04-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

I posted a thread this week asking for opinions about mainstreaming and the emotional affects it has on Deaf children if they feel isolated.

I forgot to mention that the survey if for a shool research project. So any and all opinions are welcome. I need enough responses from the Deaf community to be able to use the data.

Like I mentioned, I don't want to base my paper on the experts only, because most of them are hearing and don't have a personal view based on experience. That is why I was asking for your help to tell your story. Both sides of the issue will be represented in my paper to the best of my ability.

I will post the paper when it is done.

I hate to post two posts about the same issue, but I don't think my first post was very clear about the nature of the quesiton .. Thanks guys,,,

still chasin the dream for a better tomorrow...

Mod Note: Threads merged.

There's nothing wrong with bumping a previous thread to state your intentions. Posting a new thread that's similar to an old thread will likely make members think that it's a repeat and is likely to be ignored. Bumping it with a new message will still be read and more response will likely be made.

dreamchaser · 05-04-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

Mod Note: Threads merged.

There's nothing wrong with bumping a previous thread to state your intentions. Posting a new thread that's similar to an old thread will likely make members think that it's a repeat and is likely to be ignored. Bumping

05-02-2008, 10:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
dreamchaser Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 448 Blog Entries: 1	Opinion survey; isolation in mainstream oral only schools Do you think that mainstreamed kids who don't have sign feel lonely or isolated at school? I am doing a survey. I want to know what you think and not just what the experts say. Thanks for taking the time to answer this. If you have a story to share about a good experience or a bad experience, please share. Rock on and happy Friday.

05-02-2008, 07:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
shel90 So ready for Springtime! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 11,365 Blog Entries: 1	Being mainstreamed really sucked but even sucked more because I was in a strictly-oral only environment. U wouldnt believe all the emotional/social issues I had to endure and work through to be the person who I am no thanks to be mainstreaming. __________________ ~Shel~

05-02-2008, 08:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
undecisivegurl Chihiro to Sen Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ohio and New York Posts: 186	Yes. People are definitely lonely when they are placed in mainstream oral schools. How can they communicate freely if they can't do their oral skills that well? It's too depressing to think about. __________________ Comprendre, c'est pardoner.

05-03-2008, 07:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
rick48 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,016	Based on personal experiences-No. Is there a universal answer to this question-No. __________________ ""We're going to put the Yankees back on top and restore the universe to order" - Hank Steinbrenner

05-03-2008, 09:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 848	My experience is no. I did not feel isolated in mainstream education. __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony http://talesfromacigal.blogspot.com/

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05-02-2008, 11:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 12,592	My short answer to your question is "Yes."

05-02-2008, 11:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gemma Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 452	My answer is Hell YES! Been there - hated it - it was such an agony.

05-02-2008, 12:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Chase* Mod with training wheels Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 1,834	My sister ran away from an oral-only school back in the days when it was policy, not just an audist teacher's personal vendetta, to punish signers. The idea of coping without sign isn't limited to schools. I feel lonely and isolated in any extended oral-only setting.

05-02-2008, 06:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ROOOARRRR!!!, that's where! Posts: 6,097	Yes. Off the top of my head, its fairly common for mainstream and oral organizations to have "social" issues as a topic at their conferences.

05-02-2008, 09:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ROOOARRRR!!!, that's where! Posts: 6,097	Boult, an IEP cannot really help with socialization. It doesn't help if there's a snobby/ whitebread school population or if the teachers have NO clue whatsoever how to teach kids like us. Hell.........kids with learning disabilites (most common sped disabilty) often have significent social-emotional issues. Very often socio-emotional issues are the direct result of not having a good grasp on language. Most oral kids have OK oral skills, but they aren't sophisticated enough to use socially.

05-02-2008, 10:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 700	Big YES!

05-03-2008, 09:12 AM	#16 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 12,592	8 yes, 2 no.

05-04-2008, 02:14 AM	#22 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ROOOARRRR!!!, that's where! Posts: 6,097	and rick............it's awesome that your daughter did really well being mainstreamed. There are some kids who really do THRIVE in the mainstream. However, it's pretty much a given that even kids who do well in the mainstream often have significent social-emotional issues. I know for example that social-emotional adjustment seems to be a perennial at the Clarke Mainstream conference as well as AG Bell conferences. We're not anti-mainstream at ALL. More like, anti-mainstream as always the best educational setting. It really does seem like organizations like AG Bell etc see mainstreaming as some sort of glorious utopia, with NO downsides. It can be an appropreate setting for some kids.......but NOT all.And don't even get me started on the downsides. Its great that you had a great experiance. Heck if mainstreaming was so good, then how come sped student acheivement hasn't risen as a whole in the thirty years that its become the norm?

05-04-2008, 12:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
dreamchaser Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 448 Blog Entries: 1	I forgot to mention... Please wiegh in I posted a thread this week asking for opinions about mainstreaming and the emotional affects it has on Deaf children if they feel isolated. I forgot to mention that the survey if for a shool research project. So any and all opinions are welcome. I need enough responses from the Deaf community to be able to use the data. Like I mentioned, I don't want to base my paper on the experts only, because most of them are hearing and don't have a personal view based on experience. That is why I was asking for your help to tell your story. Both sides of the issue will be represented in my paper to the best of my ability. I will post the paper when it is done. I hate to post two posts about the same issue, but I don't think my first post was very clear about the nature of the quesiton .. Thanks guys,,, still chasin the dream for a better tomorrow...