jillio

Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing the results, as well. Bi-Bi does allow a child to access all the tools much in the same way that TC was designed to do. The main difference is that the L1 language is ASL, and the L2 language is English. In most TC programs, the language in the classroom was always English, even if it was supported through sign as in sim-com. Sweden has been using a more Bi-Bi approach for some time now. They have been acieving very good results in increasing literacy scores, so it makes me hopeful that we will see the same results here in the U.S. Shel;s program seems to be getting good results,particularly since so many of her students are language delayed.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Cheri

Speech is not use in the classroom, second of all how do you teach the students English as a second Language? You use ASL to teach them English to read and write correct?.

__________________

jillio

Oh, no. Bi-Bi is not about signs only. Its about giving a child access to 2 complete languages.

Angel

Cool

Angel

Got it

jillio

I would agree that exposure to both is beneficial, but I think in the case of a deaf child, exposure to the written form of English improves the spoken form rather than the other way around. But Bi-Bi idoes not promote an ASL only environment. Followers of this philosophy just keep the 2 languages separate, because of the differences in grammar and syntax. They don't try to change sign to fit English format, and they don't try to change English to fit ASL format. Each language is kept pure. A student in a Bi-Bi program learns to write in English grammar and syntax through the methods that have already been proven successful for teaching ESL.

jillio

You would use the same techniques that are used to teach a hearing person who speaks a different language English. That is why Bi-Bi focuses on keeping the languages separate and not trying to make ASL more likeEnglish or English more like ASL. The child has 2 pure and accurate models of 2 different languages: a fluent ASL model and a fluent English model.

jillio

I never said that speech skills were not important. But what I did say is that English skills, in whatever mode the child can access them, are more important than diction. In other words, it is more beneficial to be able to read and write fluently in English than to be able to pronounce some words clearly, but be limited in vocabulary and language usage. For instance, a deaf person who is unable to develop the ability to speak clearly, but has a grasp of English that allows them to read and write at a college level will be more independent and have more opportunity available in the job market. Just being able to speak does not neccessarily mean that one has fluent use of the language. like, I can speak a bit of Yiddish, and can understand much of what is said to me in Yiddish. Sometimes, I have to guess the meaning from the context,though. And I cannot express my thoughts in Yiddish as easily as I can in English. So, just being able to pronounce the words so others can hear them doesn't mean that I can communicate fluently in Yiddish. That is what I mean about speech being a bonus. The real goal should be to develop fluency in English. And fluency in the written form of English will benefit more than concentrating so hard on the mechanics of sound production that fluency is neglected. Of couse, work on speech skills if that is what the individual wants. But make literacy the priority, not diction.

jillio

Good! I think we all got a little of track and it was creating some misunderstanding.

shel90

Because that would make it Sim-com not ASL.

Also, we have other teachers who r deaf working too who have no speech skills themselves. Poprose that, they use their intelligible or nonextistent speech skills while teaching or just fire them cuz they don't have speech skills and that wud make us just as bad as those people who discriminate deaf people.

Also, the quality of education goes down cuz while sim-comming the teachers r using two languages stimulatenously and both languages or one becomes compromised giving the kids a poor model of language.

Not my idea of a good quality education. Besides, if I sim com, I have to concentrate hard on using both language therefore taking my ability to teach the lessons effectively away. Even the hearing teachers at my work say that they won't be able to teach engaging and insightful lessons if they sim-com. They feel that the quality of the lessons go up when using just one language not both.

At least one good thing about the oral-only approach that it uses one language at one time.

I prefer to choose an approach that gives high quuality education for all of our students whether they have speech skills or not.

__________________
~Shel~

Cheri

They are not similar alike while TC uses speech, signs, lipreading in the classroom and bi bi program uses ASL in the classroom. Big differences.

__________________

jillio

I think that we are all trying to say the same thing: that English fluency is important for success. But that the way to achieve that for a deaf student is by having a strong foundation in sign.

shel90

Yes I do and it is working. Since the beginning of the year, my students' reading and writing levels went from mid first grade to early 2nd grade. I highlight the English phrases like for example "setting up the table" with neon see-through tape so when I am done highlighting all 4 books (very time consuming), I write the phrases on index cards so before I have my students read the book, I introduce the phrases and ask them to sign it word for word (yes, a little SEE) and then ask them to explain them in ASL. If they dont know it, then I model it. If I was always signing using my speech my signs would give the kids the concept that I am putting the table up since the word "up" is in the phrase which can be confusing for the kids. Instead I write the phrase in isolation and explain to the kids what that means in ASL (my kids already understand that ASL and English are two separate languages) and that while reading out loud, whenever they see the yellow tape, they know it is an English phrase and think of the concept rather than signing it for word and word without understanding the concept. That is how English is taught thru using ASL. Of course, all the vocabulary words are introduced before they read the story and we discuss the meanings of the words.

Next week, one of the books has the word "like" in it often but it is used in the content as "I want to be like you." Before the kids read the story, I sign using "like" as in that content not in the content "I like you." so they understand that the word like has different meanings.

I use 3 different books each week with my students so that means I cut that tape in tiny bits and highlight every page that has English phrases or words that have different meanings so 4 students times 3 books is 12 books a week. It is hard hard work and hearing children's teachers dont do all these kinds of modifications. That's why I have such little time to do anything at work and not only that, I am getting a new student on Tuesday so that means I will have to do 15 books a week!!!

__________________
~Shel~

shel90

Yes and that is why I work my ass off daily to ensure my students have success with English fluency. It feels so great when their test scores show improvement in literacy skills just like they did last week compared to August.

__________________
~Shel~

Miss-Delectable

That's great, Shel!
Maybe Australia should lure you over here and teach

__________________

shel90

Do the deaf ed programs use the BiBi approach in Australia?

__________________
~Shel~

jillio

I really like the technique of highlighting the English phrases and idioms for easy recognition to train them to interpret automatically. That really creates a work overload for you, but the trick is to get them to understand the different conceptual meanings for the same word, such as "like" as in affection for and "like" as in "same as". That is where ASL comes in so handy for explaining conceptual differences. Are the hearing teachers reluctant to do these modifications because they don't understand the need for them, or because they don't think it would be helpful? Just curious.

jillio

Yes, that is a difference, but it is a difference that keeps from creating a confusing linguistic atmosphere and give the students 2 models of pure language rather than distorted models of one language.

jillio

I have no doubt that those scores will continue to improve with the Bi-Bi approach. They may reach a point where they will plateau out for a short time, but that happens with all students, deaf or hearing because of developmental plateaus. The key is that after the evening out, you see gradual increases continuing.

jillio

IMO, she would be an asset to any program!

flip

It hit me how similar the questions and replies in this thread is to the spanish-english bi-bi education debate. Bi-bi for spanish people have been accused for relying too much on spanish. The most successful bi-bi program for spanish people have far much more english training that claimed by many critizers. Some of the "bad" spanish bi-bi program are to me similar to the "bad" bi-bi programs for deaf people, which are randomly depending on who is working in that school, with either too much english or too much spanish and quite often outdated pedagogy techniques. This is my impression after googling this topic on internet. Nice thread we got here.

Cheri

From what I know is the bi bi methodology is 20 years old, You have told me this was a new program instead of trusting your word for it, I should have done more research but the problem is there wasn't enough, from what I've came to learned that the first school that use the bi bi program was in 1989 which it was The Learning center for the deaf children in Framingham, Mass. And then in 1990 Indiana for the deaf use bi bi program too and so on. The point is that this methodology is just not well known.

This debate is never going to be completely resolved, we go around and around. Everyone has an opinion. But from what I've see on here is some of you are making TC so bad to the public. I have been in a TC program and I have nothing bad to say about that methodology. I got to learned signs, lip reading and speech. Who could ask for anything better than that?

Some of you have said that Bi Bi is better than TC or better than Cued Speech or better than Oralism. The point is no deaf is the same as another deaf person. What might work for this deaf individual might not work for another deaf individual. Now I can really see how hearing parents must felt when they're trying to do all that they can. Education is an extiemely important to ALL OF US.

My goal is to get all hearing parents of deaf children to get involved in ASL, I don't care what Education they decide on for their child, I just want them to use signs too and stop focusing on hearing and speech ONLY, Its the same I would say to Deaf Adults to stop focusing on ASL ONLY. Come on, we should not leave no child left behind. They have that right to know as many communication tools as possible.

Now for hearing parents of deaf children, ASL has been around since 1817, and it should be well perseved as long as there's deaf people on this earth with or without the use of cochlear implants. If you want a close bond with your deaf child then its time to put signs in your life, because you will reget it down the roads from now, I'm not kidding either.

Enough said by me.

__________________

Cheri

That what I've been saying three times on this thread but it seems that you had trouble understanding me, so therefore you use ASL all the way in the classroom. I rest my case.

__________________

Miss-Delectable

Yes, a few, but which one to be precise, I cannot say.

However, I know of maybe three or four programs that uses BiBi in Victoria and Sydney. My old stomping ground (deaf school) use bi-bi and with some success, so it seem.

__________________

Miss-Delectable