Miss-Delectable

That I can believe. So many ignorant hearies doesn't understand that deaf people can gain legitimate qualifications..

I wonder if most of his friends has any kind of qualifications or not! You should ask them that

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Deafness

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jillio

I know what you mean. It is a bunch of BS. Like they just gave you that damned degree to be nice! I know full well how much work it is. And the sad fact is, my M.Ed will give me greater credibility than your M.Ed will because I am hearing. That really sucks. We have to complete the same requirements.

Silentwolfdog

Here's a few reasons for this.

Poor education system. (My school was like this. The system was messed up and as results we suffered.)

They learned ASL far too late at this stage. (Best time to learn language is when you are born, not 5 or 6 years old.)

No motivation. (I remember I was the only one out of my class that really tried to do homeworks, studied, etc. and yet none of them seem to try. They blamed school when they did nothing to help themselves as well.)

They come from poor family background. (Can you really focus at school if you were abused or neglected by your own family member?)

That's only thing I can think of right now. I am sure there's more reasons for what you have asked.

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If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background!
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William
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shel90

Thanks! I couldnt remember. That shows proof that sign language would never ever interfere with the development of speech skills. Man!

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~Shel~

shel90

Like Jillo said, the BiBi philosophy is relatively new and a few deaf schools are starting to adopt it. My brother works at deaf school and he tells me that it still is a TC program. Maybe that was the case for your friends who graduated from the Deaf schools.

Did they have a full access to language since birth or were they introduced to ASL later on after "trying" out other methodologies?

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~Shel~

jillio

**nodding agreement** And your 2nd reason is probably the most responsible.

Cheri

Hearing people who uses English as their primary language some cannot read or write well.

I've seen some deaf adults and kids have dropped ASL when they had their cochlear implants.

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shel90

The learning of ASL later is the biggest problem at my school even though we are a BiBi program. When those kids who are delayed graduate from high school with a low reading level, who gets the blame? Us..of course!!! That really pisses me off.

Yes, the Deaf shcools of the old days didnt provide good quality education cuz of all the different methodologies being invented and then ASL was finally recognized as a language its own right by Stokes. It has been a long and slow change since then.

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~Shel~

shel90

Well, that's their choice and their rights cuz they have already completed their education. We are talking about children, are we? Yes, I have seen deaf adults drop ASL cuz they dont want to use it anymore and be immersed in the hearing world full time but at least they were provided the skills from the schools that they went to when they were kids to make that decision. They are on their own and capable of making their own decisions regarding their adult education or careers.

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~Shel~

Cheri

I just told you their primary language was ASL no others were introduced to them, even their parents signs better than I've seen most hearing parents would sign. It can't be in TC because TC are in public schools. I would have to ask what program they were in, all I know is that they grew up in a deaf residential schools.

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shel90

My brother works in a Deaf school and it is a TC program. He is studying for his Master's degree in the BiBi philosophy and he told me that there is no way that his place of employment is using a BiBi approach. Even in their handbook, they identified themselves as a TC program. BTW, he told me that AZ doesnt accept the BiBi philosophy for the public educational setting..same thing with California. Good question would be is that ...how many other states forbid BiBi education. Problem is that they are referring to the Spanish speaking population and forgot about the deaf/hoh population. Spanish-speaking hearing children can hear so therefore, they have full access to spoken English while deaf children dont so how is that fair...

Anyways...TC are not just in public schools only.. they are also in Deaf schools too. There are also oral deaf schools too.

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~Shel~

jillio

Most residential schools starting using the TC approach in the mid to late 70's. TC didn't start getting used in the public schools until the push for mainstreaming that came with IDEA. That is when they started developing self contained programs for the deaf in the public school system, and when they started using TC as a methodology for those programs.

shel90

I didnt know that..it was the Deaf schools that used the TC approach first? Interesting...lol!

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~Shel~

jillio

**nodding agreement** The fact is, there are relatively few Bi-Bi programs out there. And you are correct, that most policy isset based on the immigrant population, and the policy makers seem to forget that we have a native U.S. population that needs ESL as well.

shel90

[quote=jillio;899477]**nodding agreement** The fact is, there are relatively few Bi-Bi programs out there. And you are correct, that most policy isset based on the immigrant population, and the policy makers seem to forget that we have a native U.S. population that needs ESL as well.[/QUOTE]

or they think that all Deaf children need to learn spoken language not ASL.

I am happy that we have adopted the public school curriculm, however, I have some problems with the LA curriculm. Too much emphasis on phonics so I have to be creative on how to make those phonics lessons benefit my students who dont have any auditory input...presto! I changed them into fingerspelling lessons and my students reading and spelling skills just took off like a rocket!!! Teachers HAVE to be creative so I dont have time to worry about how to teach using both signing and speech. No thank u...

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~Shel~

Buffalo

AGBell
Clarke School for the Deaf
Central Institute for the Deaf
St. Joseph Institute for the Deaf
John Tracy Clinic

They all are pro-oralism. I am sure there are more that I didn't know of. Somebody is suggesting an oral only enviroment.

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It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.
- Gilbert Chesterton

shel90

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~Shel~

jillio

[quote=shel90;899483]Even a phonetic approach doesn'twork for all hearing kids. But itdoesn't surprise me that you found a cerative solution to the problem!

shel90

[quote=jillio;899506]Thanks...it is NOT easy...sometimes I wish there were other teachers of the Deaf here who have experienced many different programs here so at least we can have some people who can understand what it is like. U are the closest to knowing what it is like.

I am referring to Deaf ed not teaching hearing kids cuz it takes a different skills to teach Deaf kids especially those with language delays. It would be nice if someone here can walk in my shoes what I walk in daily. I love it but it is heartbreaking regarding to different issues sometimes.

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~Shel~

shel90

I would love to dare any of you to take my shoes and do my job for one month and try your beliefs on my students. I would love to know if your opinions would still remain the same or change.

I used to believe that all deaf children were better off being raised in an oral-only environment and that ASL interfered with their spoken language development. I also used to blame ASL for deaf people's poor literacy skills. I was proved WRONG on all counts BIG time. Now, I know all the issues and factors surrounding those concerns and realized that ASL is not to be blamed, that is for sure.

I just would love for some of you to experience teaching deaf children in different programs and try to teach them using the philosophies you believe in. I had to do a lot of hard self-analyzing on my values of educating deaf children..it was an eye-opener for me.

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~Shel~

Silentwolfdog

Well I don't blame you.

Before I had to help deaf students doing their homework. I found out it was very tough to help them with their homework. Even it isn't teach them but helping them with homework are very tough and I can't imagine what teacher have to go through everyday in class.

Only teachers I don't like are those with lousy expectations. Making thing too easy for students instead of challenge them everyday.

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If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background!
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William
Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

shel90

OOHHH I dont have low expectations for my students...

These are their vocabulary words for next week...

disguise
hollow
moss
crater
owling
threading
swoops
pumping
and 10 or so more...I give them 20 vocabualry words for them to identify each week.

For math, they will have to learn how to subtract using mental math..

like 57-28...instead of 57
-28,

they have to say in iether ASL or writing..."change 28 to 30"

"57 subtract 30 is 27
27 add 2 cuz we added 2 to make 28 into 30
so 27+2 is 29 therefore the answer is
57-28 equals 29."

I expect them to explain that using ASL or in writing. Those are 8 year olds that I am teaching. I have high expectations.

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~Shel~

jillio

[quote=shel90;899509]Even though I am able to understand the issues, I don't do your job, and therefore, can't understand it from your perspective. I know enough, however, and have seen the results often enough to know that your job is very difficult, and one that takes a very special person. The closest I have come to doing a job like yours is one on one tutoring for deaf students, and a few students with LD. It takes a strong person to keep on trying to make a difference even though it can be heartbreaking. But if you make a difference in just one child's life, you have done your job well.