Originally Posted by jillio

Unfortunately, in the States, that is a problem with many of the Bi-Bi programs, as well. I think shel can attest to the fact that many of the students she gets are referred after having been labeled "oral failures" or have begun to experience problems with academic content that don't show up until the the 4th or 5th grade, approximately.

That is a problem if they are only offering English as a second language without offering things such as composition classes or literature classes. The whole purpose of learning English as a second language is to make the student able to access literature and to develop proficient writing skills. If students who have English as a first language take classes in formal English use and reading, then students who have English as a second language most certainly should, too. I would never advocate for ESL as being the only English classes offered. My committment is to ESL techniques being used to facilitate learning in classes focused on things like composition and literature. Certainly, once a child has gained a strong foundation in English as an L2 language, they should be receiving class work that will allow them to use those skills and refine them.

BTW, you have obviously overcome the problems with the system, and found opportunities on your own to refine your skills.

Originally Posted by Banjo

Well, I was in elementary section of the school while she was in the secondary school. But yes, we rode on the same taxi. We did go to the same school but in separate buildings. She graduated before I entered the secondary building.

Yes, both of us were in the Bi-Bi program. I did exceptionally well, I was one of the top students in the school. At that time, cochlear implants were still not making a big impact so the students did somewhere better compared to the students enrolled there now.

Originally Posted by Banjo

I definitely overcame the problems with the system. No doubt about that and I can thank my parents for playing a big part in it. You may be unaware of the fact that there are in fact, 2 separate high schools on the same campus. One is ran by the Halton School Board and one is ran by the government. You can guess which one is ran by the government.

Anyway, the one being managed by Halton is much better in comparison to the government-funded school. There is a special program where they let the deaf students take courses in the other school with interpreters. It's basically an integrated program that is shared by both schools to the deaf student's benefit. They both share the same building, though we don't really socialize with each other that much. We do prefer to socialize with our own kind due to the fact that we can sign in ASL.

Originally Posted by jillio

I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

You don't need to tell me which one is government run, LOL.

Socialization is a very important part of education. That is one of the reasons that I see problems with a fully mainstream placement where there is 1 deaf child in a school of 300-400 students. The only person they can fully communicate with, and socialize with throughout the entire day is their terp. That is not a situation that facilitates social skills.

Originally Posted by jillio

Unfortunately, in the States, that is a problem with many of the Bi-Bi programs, as well. I think shel can attest to the fact that many of the students she gets are referred after having been labeled "oral failures" or have begun to experience problems with academic content that don't show up until the the 4th or 5th grade, approximately.

The majority of the student population have been referred to us after falling so far behind. I wish it was the other way around. *sighs*

That is a problem if they are only offering English as a second language without offering things such as composition classes or literature classes. The whole purpose of learning English as a second language is to make the student able to access literature and to develop proficient writing skills. If students who have English as a first language take classes in formal English use and reading, then students who have English as a second language most certainly should, too. I would never advocate for ESL as being the only English classes offered. My committment is to ESL techniques being used to facilitate learning in classes focused on things like composition and literature. Certainly, once a child has gained a strong foundation in English as an L2 language, they should be receiving class work that will allow them to use those skills and refine them.

BTW, you have obviously overcome the problems with the system, and found opportunities on your own to refine your skills.

Originally Posted by jillio

I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

You don't need to tell me which one is government run, LOL.

Socialization is a very important part of education. That is one of the reasons that I see problems with a fully mainstream placement where there is 1 deaf child in a school of 300-400 students. The only person they can fully communicate with, and socialize with throughout the entire day is their terp. That is not a situation that facilitates social skills.[/QUOTE]


I have seen that too many times.


If there was a BiBi program using ASL and English being offered for hearing kids as well, I would enroll my son in it for sure.

Arizona has a BiBi charter school for both deaf and hearing kids. I think that would be my idea of a perfect program because the deaf kids can learn how to deal with situations when the hearing kids use spoken language without singing. That would be a good skills for them to develop.

Originally Posted by jillio

I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

Originally Posted by Banjo

That would had been nice. It was only for our benefit to get a better education. The hearing students weren't enrolled in any of our programs, probably due to the fact that our school is intended for deaf and hard of hearing students. Though they did have one program where hearing students could enroll in and that was the ASL class. Quite a number of the students enrolled in the program are now professional interpreters.

If we had fully integrated the Bi-Bi program in both schools, I could see it making a difference since they are already required to take French classes while we weren't. It would had been nice if I was able to take French classes. Oh well.

Originally Posted by shel90

Speaking of taking other foreign language classes while at the Deaf school...my brother took basic Spanish at the nearby public high school (magnet program) and he said that he could understand Spanish better than English cuz the syntax of ASL resembles to Spanish.

I am not fluent in even the basics of Spanish but a lot of deaf people have told me that about ASL and Spanish. I thought it was interesting...

Originally Posted by Banjo

That would had been nice. It was only for our benefit to get a better education. The hearing students weren't enrolled in any of our programs, probably due to the fact that our school is intended for deaf and hard of hearing students. Though they did have one program where hearing students could enroll in and that was the ASL class. Quite a number of the students enrolled in the program are now professional interpreters.

If we had fully integrated the Bi-Bi program in both schools, I could see it making a difference since they are already required to take French classes while we weren't. It would had been nice if I was able to take French classes. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Banjo

English is one of the most unique languages and so different from pretty every other language out there. It's incredibly difficult to learn, it's a wonder we, deaf people even managed to understand it in the first place! Of course, I don't find it difficult to read and write English because I grew up with it. But I do understand why so many people find it difficult.

French, Spanish, Italian and such languages share similar syntaxes and rules.

Originally Posted by jillio

Indeed! English is difficult for hearing students, let alone someone who can't hear it.

Originally Posted by Banjo

Yes and it may explain why the deaf folks are better spellers. :-)

I often see people misspelling words like "lose" and "weird." I am always seeing the word, "Loose" when it's obviously "Lose."

Originally Posted by Banjo

I did exceptionally well, I was one of the top students in the school.

Originally Posted by Banjo

Unfortunately, I can't say that the education they provide at the school is something to be proud of. The problem is, a lot of students enrolled at that school are often students who did not do well at the schools they previously attended.

Not only to mention that students don't take Academic English courses. Instead, they take English as a Second Language courses without telling them what the difference is.

I should know, I used to attend that school.

Originally Posted by Miss-Delectable

Except that one year I beat you in Canadian History and I'm not Canadian. LOL!

Originally Posted by Miss-Delectable

Yep, I can attest to that. I was under misconception that deaf schools in North America was more advanced in academic standard compared to my school in Australia.

Boy, I was wrong! Victorian College for the Deaf, in fact, exceeded their standard and I had challenges. Whereas I had very little or no challenges at ECD.

Originally Posted by Banjo

That's pretty sad when an Australian beat us at our own game. :-/

One thing I did notice about exchange students is that they often perform far better than most students at Ernest C. Drury which is quite amazing considering the fact that neither ASL nor English are often their native languages.

You were the only one that I know of who came from an English-speaking country that I remember in my years at the school. We had one from Sweden, several from Germany and such. Though they told me they learned English in schools over there too. I found that interesting.

Originally Posted by Miss-Delectable

Ahem. What about that New Zealand boy Daniel? He came from English speaking country, too.

I'm sure the standard & quality at ECD has improved since they were made to meet the hearing standard. Right?

Originally Posted by Banjo

That's pretty sad when an Australian beat us at our own game. :-/

One thing I did notice about exchange students is that they often perform far better than most students at Ernest C. Drury which is quite amazing considering the fact that neither ASL nor English are often their native languages.

You were the only one that I know of who came from an English-speaking country that I remember in my years at the school. We had one from Sweden, several from Germany and such. Though they told me they learned English in schools over there too. I found that interesting.

Originally Posted by Banjo

Yes, though I do consider myself lucky that I am quite knowledgeable and well-educated. A large part of that is because of my parents. :-)