Deaf Education - One size does not fit all - Page 11

Cheri · 01-21-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

. It doesn't matter if the program is only 20 days old, I have still never seen a child that has not had better communication and literacy skills from being provided a more enriched environment.

Wow

are u saying that your son and us deaf people have no better communication or literacy skills than those kids in the bi bi program?

shel90 · 01-21-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Where did it says that I support oral?

U said that it is fair for all deaf children to experience oral, TC, and CS. I was surprised that u mentioned oral.

I am not against CS nor TC programs but I am against the oral only programs big time.

Omg I almost die laughing bi bi is less the risk failure? How would you know because you say so or because Shel says so, I'm sorry but I would rather to see the studies that would show me this program will beat the odds.

And bi bi has everything?? Gives a child everything??

If it doesnt give the child everything, then what are we not giving the child since u know so much about it? Pls name what the BiBi program is not giving the children? I dont think deaf education is a laughing matter cuz these kids' future are at sake.

jillio don't say never either, when this program is only 20 years old, you cannot say you never saw bi bi had fail a child.

Have u worked in a bibi program?

I nor Jillo didnt develop the bi bi program. For me, I had observed many different deaf ed programs except for CS and saw what the bibi program can do for the kids so I picked it. I cant speak for Jillo on why she believes in it.

Has nothing with because I say so or Jillo says so...it is all about the kids' needs. If all the kids show progress whether faster or slower in those programs, what's wrong with supporting those kids? If it wasnt, then I wouldnt say all those things but I havent seen any kid regress cuz of the program itself.

Besides, Jillo is talking about what she saw in her experience in the past so unless she is lying, she hasnt seen it fail a kid but she never said anything about the future. None of us know what will happen in the future..only what we saw in our experiences. I saw so many other programs fail many deaf/hoh chidlren including the one I was raised in but I havent seen the BiBi approach fail any SO FAR. Doesnt mean I am saying it never will in the future.

shel90 · 01-21-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Wow

are u saying that your son and us deaf people have no better communication or literacy skills than those kids in the bi bi program?

I see that my current students have better knowldege and literacy skills than I did when I was their age. I didnt even know what a Venn Diagram was until college and these kids know what it is.

I dont take offense that these kids are doing better than I did when I was their age. It is not about me. It is about making deaf ed better for these kids. Why are u taking offense to that if it is a possilbilty that those kids will achieve higher literacy skills than any of us including Jillo's son and my brother?

Nor do I take offense when people bash the oral-only programs even though I was raised in it cuz I know it is not about me.

Silentwolfdog · 01-21-2008, 05:00 PM

Ok, from what I am reading, I am summarizing it up.

TC, oral, cued speech = a risky gamble

bi-bi= set a good foundation to start with (a sound ground)

This is what I am getting from reading those posts.

And if I have to pick one, I would pick one that doesn't involve gambling with a child's life. Who would do that to their own child? O.o;

But that's just me.

Tousi · 01-21-2008, 05:09 PM

Outliers? What/who's that?

loml · 01-21-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

It's difficult to get some real results out of many types of educational programs for the deaf and hard of hearing.

Very, very true Banjo, especially with FOIPA, and small enrollment numbers in schools for the deaf along with the "special needs" umbrella of the education systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

One of the reasons is the lack of language development during the first five years of a child's life. It is absolutely crucial that language development is made a top priority, if not then you are likely to be in for a very rough ride. Educators and the educational programs will not work if the parents don't work with their children in acquiring a language or more.

It's a continuing trend and not much is being done about it. It's the same old story all of the times.

Banjo, I couldn't agree with you more. I believe a child could/should be provided the language of their family via Cued Speech, from members of their family, at time of diagnosis along with ASL, from a deaf adult role model, who is fluent in ASL, then the child has the best of both languages.

I have said this many times, if/when a child is provided access to the family language via Cued Speech, (especially as an early intervention approach), perhaps then the family may be able to approach learning of ASL with less trepidation.

It is imperative for families to have a tool that expediates "making the connection", with their deaf/hoh child.

jillio · 01-21-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Wow

are u saying that your son and us deaf people have no better communication or literacy skills than those kids in the bi bi program?

No, my son's literacy skills are not better than a child coming from a Bi-Bi program matched for age, grade level, and intelligence. But that isn't what I said...that's jsut what you are assuming I said. And my son was educated in a TC environment, but he also had the advantage of a Bi-Bi environment at home.

I think you are confusing a Bi-Bi program with an ASL only program, Cheri, and they are not the same thing at all.

jillio · 01-21-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

Ok, from what I am reading, I am summarizing it up.

TC, oral, cued speech = a risky gamble

bi-bi= set a good foundation to start with (a sound ground)

This is what I am getting from reading those posts.

And if I have to pick one, I would pick one that doesn't involve gambling with a child's life. Who would do that to their own child? O.o;

But that's just me.

That's it in a nutshell.

Bear · 01-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Mod Note: Thread closed for review and to let people have a chance to calm down.

Bear · 01-23-2008, 11:45 AM

Mod Note: Thread reopened.

Tousi · 01-23-2008, 12:14 PM

I have never seen nor heard of an ASL only program. Tell me where they are......

Cheri · 01-23-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

I have never seen nor heard of an ASL only program. Tell me where they are......

You would need to study the history of Deaf Culture, there was an ASL only program and DeafMonkey also told me that she was in an ASL program also, I rather her to tell you that herself.

kalboy · 01-23-2008, 05:25 PM

How about ASL + oral + writing? Kids are smart. Raise them in bi-lingual environment won't hurt a thing.

jillio · 01-23-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalboy

How about ASL + oral + writing? Kids are smart. Raise them in bi-lingual environment won't hurt a thing.

There you go!

shel90 · 01-23-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

I have never seen nor heard of an ASL only program. Tell me where they are......

Same here

rockdrummer · 01-24-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Up to you if u want to think that way. I dont think of it that way.

Yes I do see it as a crap shoot and a sad state of affairs. Alot of that comes from you and Jillio (and others) with all of the negative things you post about how screwed up the system is. It also comes from articles I have read. It comes from things that many on this board have posted about their individual experiences. It also comes from the fact that not all programs are created equally and that there are good and bad programs out there and not any definitive way to distinguish the differences without seeing results which means enroll your child and cross your fingers. I'm sorry but to me that's nothing more than rolling the dice.

rockdrummer · 01-24-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

Ok, from what I am reading, I am summarizing it up.

TC, oral, cued speech = a risky gamble

bi-bi= set a good foundation to start with (a sound ground)

This is what I am getting from reading those posts.

And if I have to pick one, I would pick one that doesn't involve gambling with a child's life. Who would do that to their own child? O.o;

But that's just me.

Why would you consider TC a risky gamble?

jillio · 01-24-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

Why would you consider TC a risky gamble?

Because it confuses linguistic systems. Also, TC has been in use in this country for a long enough time that we have been able to gatherr sufficient data on students froma longitudinal perspective. Have literacy rates increased? The answer is "no". Therefore, it is a risky gamble.

jillio · 01-24-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

I have never seen nor heard of an ASL only program. Tell me where they are......

There are none.

fredfam1 · 01-24-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

There are none.

There has recently been a phenomenal growth in
homeschooling with a number of families starting
there own private schools to teach other kids
whose parents didn't feel they could take on such
a job. What about fluent ASL signers starting
private schools in order to teach ASL only
educational programs? I wish I were fluent! Then
I would start one myself. I've been homeschooling
for 20 years with much success. My kids were all
above 90th percentile by the time they graduated.
And some of them had learning disabilities. This
could be a wonderful opportunity for people with
the right skills! CODA s would be good for this!
Or just any Deaf person who can teach. Total
immersion would be cool too. I would take my
kids every day if someone local offered that,
and we could trade. I could teach their kids
English.

jillio · 01-24-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredfam1

There has recently been a phenomenal growth in
homeschooling with a number of families starting
there own private schools to teach other kids
whose parents didn't feel they could take on such
a job. What about fluent ASL signers starting
private schools in order to teach ASL only
educational programs? I wish I were fluent! Then
I would start one myself. I've been homeschooling
for 20 years with much success. My kids were all
above 90th percentile by the time they graduated.
And some of them had learning disabilities. This
could be a wonderful opportunity for people with
the right skills! CODA s would be good for this!
Or just any Deaf person who can teach. Total
immersion would be cool too. I would take my
kids every day if someone local offered that,
and we could trade. I could teach their kids
English.

I think it's a great idea. There are a number of charter schools being opened to accomplish just this. Hearing and deaf students educated together using a Bi-Bi philosophy. I think it is a very beneficial trend for both hearing and deaf students.

DeafMonkey · 01-24-2008, 04:43 PM

Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf

or

Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf

look at the "Language"

they are same said English and ASL

Banjo · 01-24-2008, 07:19 PM

They use the Bi-Bi program at Ernest C. Drury School for the Deaf.

jillio · 01-24-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafMonkey

Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf

or

Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf

look at the "Language"

they are same said English and ASL

Yes. This is one of the Bi-Bi Canadian programs.

jillio · 01-24-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

They use the Bi-Bi program at Ernest C. Drury School for the Deaf.

Oops. didn't see you reply before I typed mine.

01-21-2008, 05:00 PM	#304 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 689	Ok, from what I am reading, I am summarizing it up. TC, oral, cued speech = a risky gamble bi-bi= set a good foundation to start with (a sound ground) This is what I am getting from reading those posts. And if I have to pick one, I would pick one that doesn't involve gambling with a child's life. Who would do that to their own child? O.o; But that's just me. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

01-21-2008, 06:55 PM	#309 (permalink)
Bear Out Of Hibernation Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,023	Mod Note: Thread closed for review and to let people have a chance to calm down. __________________ http://bears-city.myminicity.com/

01-23-2008, 11:45 AM	#310 (permalink)
Bear Out Of Hibernation Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,023	Mod Note: Thread reopened. __________________ http://bears-city.myminicity.com/

01-23-2008, 05:25 PM	#313 (permalink)
kalboy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 243	How about ASL + oral + writing? Kids are smart. Raise them in bi-lingual environment won't hurt a thing. __________________

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01-21-2008, 05:09 PM	#305 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,024	Outliers? What/who's that?

01-23-2008, 12:14 PM	#311 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,024	I have never seen nor heard of an ASL only program. Tell me where they are......

01-24-2008, 04:43 PM	#322 (permalink)
DeafMonkey SUN/MOON Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,553	Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf or Ernest C Drury School for the Deaf look at the "Language" they are same said English and ASL

01-24-2008, 07:19 PM	#323 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,871 Blog Entries: 1	They use the Bi-Bi program at Ernest C. Drury School for the Deaf.