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Unread 03-20-2007, 01:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What with the "Hey it's (name)" ?
Hey Mrs. Crickers... This is Garfield. Stop crawling under my bed last night.... go away !!



Just kidding
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Unread 03-20-2007, 02:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Well, the decline in deaf schools isn't always due to mainstreaming deaf students. I know that there are schools that have scandals of the past haunting them.

So you can't put the full blame on mainstream schools... because it's not always the mainstream schools that are causing the decline in enrollment of deaf schools..
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Unread 03-20-2007, 03:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kalista View Post
Hey Mrs. Crickers... This is Garfield. Stop crawling under my bed last night.... go away !!



Just kidding
chirp chirp
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Unread 03-20-2007, 04:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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as far as making hearing friends, well that's not easy either in the mainstreamed school. Most hearing can be friendly but they can be afraid to talk to you.

They do the same thing with someone on the wheelchair too. There was a person on a wheelchair and no one would sit with her in lunch. And she can hear very well too.

Getting education in mainstreamed can benefit us ... if we could only understand what the teachers are saying if we don't use ASL.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 04:50 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrickets View Post
as far as making hearing friends, well that's not easy either in the mainstreamed school. Most hearing can be friendly but they can be afraid to talk to you.

They do the same thing with someone on the wheelchair too. There was a person on a wheelchair and no one would sit with her in lunch. And she can hear very well too.

Getting education in mainstreamed can benefit us ... if we could only understand what the teachers are saying if we don't use ASL.
Yea..I know.

During my years in middle school, I often ate alone at lunch cuz nobody wanted to be seen with me. My good friends in middle school had the other lunch hour but I did try to make new friends with the other kids that had the same lunch hour as I did. they told me to go away and called me names so I gave up ( I had absulotely no self esteem at the time) and spent most of my lunches alone. Sometimes, a few girls would sit with me and say hi but they would start chatering away with their friends. I tried to keep up with their conversations but it was too difficult for me. Oh well..at least now, I have my co workers to sit with on lunch break to make up for it.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 05:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Umm, I went to public school from 7th grade till I graduated from high school but we had deaf/Hoh program so I went there only for my poor english and math then spend rest of time in regular classroom with skilled intrepters. So my questions was I mainstreamed? Well I was not only one, had many deaf/hoh kids went to school with me.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 07:04 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Jazzy, mainstream with dhh program is an excellent option. I just think that mainstream with very minimal accomondations and no formal dhh program is not good.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 10:39 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Jazzy, mainstream with dhh program is an excellent option. I just think that mainstream with very minimal accomondations and no formal dhh program is not good.
I think so too. Better that than LD class. LD teachers don't even have time with you either because they are so busy trying to teach other kids how to read.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 11:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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ditto jazzy,
One of the reasons why mainstreaming hasn't translated into huge acheivements for dhh folks is b/c the gross majority of sped programs in the US are set up for LD kids. Unless we are SuperDeaf (high acheiving) we get lumped in with the dumbasses.............hey, the sped mainstream program is so bad that kids with ALL sorts of disablities opt out for specialized placements. You know, when I was at college one of my friends did a project on specialized schools. They found that the research indicated that the kids who did best, were the ones who went to specialized schools!
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Unread 03-20-2007, 11:20 PM   #40 (permalink)
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ok.. if what you're saying is true.. then what about the deaf children who went to mainstreamed school with little or no formal dhh program?

I'm a product of little or no dhh programs in school... and I don't see any disadvantages because I enjoyed my time in school with very few distractions.. mainly due to the fact that I managed to get more of my education in than socializing.. And you can't say that having a DHH program will work for every deaf child. It may work for some, but not others. I had interpreters.. but I was thankful I had the oppournuity to focus on my schoolwork instead of the social scene.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 11:30 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Did you say you had ASL interpreter? If so, no wonder you were able to focus on Education. If you don't know what the teacher is saying, and you don't have any friends, then what are you suppose to do with yourself in a mainstreamed school. This is what I had to go through. I learned more from my textbook than my teacher. Because I learned from textbooks and chalkboard, I think I would have been better off homeschooled, school served no purpose for me. Don't get started, My speech is not very clear either. Have of the people ask Me to repeat myself because they could not understand me.
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Unread 03-20-2007, 11:45 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Bear Beauty, how long ago was your mainstreaming experiance?
Did you get semi decent accomondations? I mean yeah, sure there are some kids who do well with minimal accomondations (even kids who are honors students) but my point is that even with the IEP tool, a lot of students are just getting a FAPE.....not the best education that they could get........but just basic minimal education, with basic minimal accomondations that EVERYONE should thrive on (so much for the indivdual in IEP) The Rowley case says that kids with disablities aren't guarteed a right to "strict equality"
You also forgot to address the "lumping in" that I brought up. That can be and is a very real problem.
Even I experianced that, and I'm not exactly dumb.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 12:27 AM   #43 (permalink)
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this Is Daniel Wright 3rd. yeah specifically some mainstream schools could be worse then a deaf school but generally it could provide a better learning experience then a deaf school which would offer social skills both are important but depending of certain variables from person to person those i think would be the more looked at Pros and Cons.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 12:40 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Ok... To answer a few questions.. I had ASL interpreters yes, but at the time they were doing more PSE than ASL.. due to the fact that My brain was more english than ASL.. But I eventually started understanding ASL more.

The main reason I focused on education instead of socialization was that I was a VERY VERY shy person back then, and still have some effects of it today.

To answer the mainstreamed expierence... Umm I started mainstream at age 5 which was 23 years ago.. and finished school almost 10 years ago.. will be 10 years next year LOL. I graduated High School in 1998.. Whoa. I feel old now.

My IEP was bascially interpreter, note taking, speech therapy (I agree with the person who said that public schools don't get good speech therapists), and my JR year of high school.. I had the pleasure of getting my therapist kicked off my IEP team. It was a choice I made due to she did not spend enough time with me. And i had one teacher that I spent the most time with, due to the fact I managed some of his teams in high school, be enstated as my IEP manager.

Anyway... The lumping in issue.. I gotta check that.. gimme a sec Oh i see.. I was lumped in when i was in elementary school.. but one teacher recognized the fact that I was more intelligent than the school thought.. and upon 3rd grade, I was put in a regular classroom with therapy 2 hours a day in the morning and afternoon.. But they always scheduled the therapy during french/spanish or music classes.. becuase those 2 classes I did not want to take. And everyone, including me, did not see a point for me to take the classes at that time.

But middle school I never went to therapy due to the school I was in didn't have any therapists in the offices.. but I did have interpreters during classes, which helped. High School.. I had speech theraphy during morning classes.. (which was study hall) but half the time she never showed.. so I quit after like 4 months becuase it was NOT helping me when she was rarely showing up.

After 3rd grade, I was mainstreamed until I graduated. And speech therapy issues aside, I turned out pretty good, IMO.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 07:41 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Ok... To answer a few questions.. I had ASL interpreters yes, but at the time they were doing more PSE than ASL..
at least they were signing to you. They didn't leave you hanging in your own little world.

for the hearings. Take a mono (use mono because deaf people nor hearing aids have the ability to hear like a hearing person) he tape player and record yourself talk at least 30 minute (we deal with it all day) and see if you can understand every single words when you play it back. Do it in a noisy environment too. Better yet, switch tapes with your classmate and see if you can understand another person's voice.

Last edited by nightcrickets; 03-21-2007 at 07:58 AM.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 07:53 AM   #46 (permalink)
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about speech therapy in middle school, I never had one. They told me I was finish with speech therapy. I guess it is because I was older and my brain doesn't absorb like it use to be.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 12:00 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nightcrickets View Post
Did you say you had ASL interpreter? If so, no wonder you were able to focus on Education. If you don't know what the teacher is saying, and you don't have any friends, then what are you suppose to do with yourself in a mainstreamed school. This is what I had to go through. I learned more from my textbook than my teacher. Because I learned from textbooks and chalkboard, I think I would have been better off homeschooled, school served no purpose for me. Don't get started, My speech is not very clear either. Have of the people ask Me to repeat myself because they could not understand me.
I went thru the eaxact same thing except that my speech was pretty clear most of the time. however, lipreading skills were the total opposite so I missed out a lot during social conversations and in the classrooms. I learned from textbooks, reading for enjoyment and on the chalkboard. Made learning very boring for me.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 03:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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IF i missed any questions, please let me know and I'll answer them.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 07:00 PM   #49 (permalink)
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BearBeauty, so did you attend Deaf classes before being mainstreamed? Actually, believe it or NOT I think that's a really good option......thing is so much of the time, dhh kids are just automaticly put in neighborhood schools, without getting the foundation of proper Early Intervention services and classes. I just don't approve of kneejerk "mainstream is the best place all the time" If there was some sort of process that kids had to go through to make sure that they were ready for mainstreaming, then I'd be perfectly OK with it. Also, I'd be OK with mainstreaming if the kid had resources etc, and the option to go to another placement.
Like, one thing that I think that more Deaf schools should adopt (that some Blind schools have as an option) is a week or so stay at the Deaf school, so that Dhh kids can meet other dhh kids, and work on things like ASL etc etc.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 08:50 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if this would be considered a deaf class.. but I was in a program at the local auditory center where I learned speech and language after my deafness was diagnoised and I was fitted with HA's(later discovered they don't work at all). And during the summer from the time I was 4 to 11.. i went to this class with a teacher where I would work on speech development and writing development. Very Limited sign langauge in that class, tho. But it was occasionally used.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 11:00 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RITCount View Post
Mainstreamed schools:

Pros -
  • Improved socializing between the deaf and the hearing.
  • Better use of English grammar.
  • Better education i.e. better at math, science, etc.
  • More maturity.

Cons -
  • A disassociation between the deaf student who went to deaf and the mainstreamed schools.
  • Jealousy from the other deaf students who did not go to deaf schools.

Deaf Schools:

Pros -
  • No language barrier in a situation that requires communication.
  • More unity
  • Easy to make new friends.
  • More maturity.

Cons -
  • Less socialization with the hearing
  • Weak English grammar.
  • Less involved in Science, Math, etc.
  • Less maturity.
You said it!

I grew up in mainstream school. I started out a few years in the Central Institute for the Deaf. At age 5, I moved to Texas and entered mainstream school. I didn't begin mainstream classes part-time until 3rd grade and full-time in 8th grade.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 12:33 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nightcrickets View Post
oh yeah, I am the proof of that. Not. If a deaf want very good English grammars, they are better off with cued speech, CI in both ears, or Lots and Lots of speech therapy and parental help. Don't rely on mainstreamed school for good grammars.

I went to mainstreamed from K-12 and never attended a deaf school

If you go to a mainstreamed school, be prepare to be harrassed, bullied, made fun of, being called "hey deaf ear", etc.
Not one of them, he means that write a english in sentence, just for writing but not use oral language.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 12:51 AM   #53 (permalink)
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For me, mainstream school at middle school and high school are different, there's pros and cons on both of them since middle school have more cons than high school in mainstream.

For middle school, I don't like mainstream program at middle school because speech teachers are treat me unfairly and always write all on note to my parent about how is my poor oral language but stopped when started 9th grade at high school. I know that she's not good speech teacher and got out of job due not enough deaf or HoH who want attend speech therapy. I had wear uniform at middle school and hate it but its certain middle school (Like around 70% of middle school don't have uniform policy) since all high school and most deaf school (K-12) don't wear uniform, though. When I started attend at high school, that full mainstream with all hearing students and looks change so much from middle school, I feel like more communicate with hearing students at lunch time, nutrient and classroom and rules are different since high school is more responsible. You only get deal with inexperience interpreter and using in bad sign language but won't happen to my full-time interpreter but only happen to sub interpreter when my real interpreter is out for sick or important meeting. Same thing are applied to 12th grade after got out from deaf school.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 02:13 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Very Limited sign langauge in that class, tho. But it was occasionally used.
So how did you get the Sign fluency nessary to receptively understand the 'terp?
I mean it does sound like you got the proper EI, and it wasn't one of those kneejerk placements. Like a lot of our generation (first generation to be mainstreamed as a matter of course, rather then just as an option afforded for very high functioning kids ) might have gotten into generic sped needs placements, where they didn't get the proper EI or foundation for mainstreaming.
Unfortunatly that's still happening. But I mean it does seem like the best mainstreamers are those who've had a foundation in really good intervention, whether it be oral/aural or Sign based or whatever.
And I still think that the socialization aspect is also important. I was mainstreamed, and they thought that I didn't need Sign or exposure to Deaf things. .......but I had so much issues with socialization. That in turn affected my school performance. If I'd gone to a center based school, then maybe I would have done a lot better academicly and socially! .......and it's very common for mainstreamed and/or oral kids to have significent issues in that area.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 02:40 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Deafdyke...

Trust me when I say this.. i have no idea how I learned to sign fluently... I think I was just visually picking it up and storing it somewhere in my brain most of the time. To be honest.. I was exposed to sign.. not necessarily ASL, but more SEE and PSE.

I remember as a kid.. I almost never used sign language until Middle school. I was using all oral.. then middle school I was using sign a lot.. which surprised a lot of people. I remember one woman who had known me since I was 4 years old come to see me in high school.. I was talking to my terp about something I didn't understand in class.. and this woman was staring at me open-mouthed.. And said "Where the hell did you learn to sign?"

I had lipread the whole sentence on her mouth cuz i was used to her.. And my terp was laughing cuz she thought I'd been doing it all my life.. until the lady and I explained that I had never used it much til middle school.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 03:45 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Wow...............that's good! Maybe you were Deaf in your last life too!
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Unread 03-22-2007, 04:34 AM   #57 (permalink)
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That sure as heck wouldn't surprise me.. but It would surprise a lot of people who've known me. But what I find interesting is.. I was at Gallaudet in 98/99 and For some reason, I was NOT comfortable going to school there.. It could have been that I'm used to mainstream schools and being in an all deaf enviroment was freaking me out. But I wasn't happy in an all deaf enviroment.. and I still don't know why to this day.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 07:31 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Not one of them, he means that write a english in sentence, just for writing but not use oral language.
And that's what I mean. Someone actually mocked me on the internet and told me that he have never seen anyone butchered English grammar so much that it made him sick. or something like that.

Anyway, I didn't know how to use the "ed" and "s" in my writing until I went to college. My college had a special English class for people who didn't pass the writing test. I still don't know how to use them sometimes, but I did improve after that. I think my college professor did a better job teaching me in one semster than all the teachers in my school. And I struggles on how to express myself in a proper sentence, that's why I keep editing my writing.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 08:37 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I noticed that Bearbeauty has a more positive perspective about being mainstreamed than nightcrickets and I do. Wonder is it because, u, bearbeauty, had terps which enabled u to be fully involved in your educational process and as a result u feel statisfied while nightcrickets and I were always left out? Just wondering...

I know for myself I have many bitter feelings about being mainstreamed due to so many reasons.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 08:40 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Deafdyke...

Trust me when I say this.. i have no idea how I learned to sign fluently... I think I was just visually picking it up and storing it somewhere in my brain most of the time. To be honest.. I was exposed to sign.. not necessarily ASL, but more SEE and PSE.

I remember as a kid.. I almost never used sign language until Middle school. I was using all oral.. then middle school I was using sign a lot.. which surprised a lot of people. I remember one woman who had known me since I was 4 years old come to see me in high school.. I was talking to my terp about something I didn't understand in class.. and this woman was staring at me open-mouthed.. And said "Where the hell did you learn to sign?"

I had lipread the whole sentence on her mouth cuz i was used to her.. And my terp was laughing cuz she thought I'd been doing it all my life.. until the lady and I explained that I had never used it much til middle school.
That just goes to show that a deaf kid will do what ever they can to make sense of what is going on around them. You were picking up and using visual cues without really being taught to dothat because that was how you made sense of your world. It comes naturally to the deaf child. That's why I am such an advocate for the early use of sign. If a deaf child naturally uses visual cues, then we should be capitalizing on that strength. There are times that a toddler is able to naturally pick up visual cues so well that the parents actually think he/she is hearing them. One of the reasons so many diagnoses are delayed.

I work with deaf students here at my college. Currently, I am working with a young man that was mainstreamed K-12, and he was implanted in the 8th grade. Wonderful oral skills, but still needs a terp in class to keep from missing lecture material, and the same as you, he still has a lot of trouble with -ed and -s and punctuation in his writing. But he was an A/B student in high school. Even received a scholarship for his freshman year at college for his grades. Mainstream tends to make allowances for errors in writing, rather than instituting remedial classes to work on the problems.
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