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#181 (permalink) | |
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Urdhva Dhanurasana
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 363
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Very interesting to see how you define what constitutes the deaf community, though no one should be surprised at the social circumstances leading to the exclusivity through the process of requirements and qualification for membership. I personally consider any oral deaf person to be part of the deaf community, whether they elected it or not and whether they know or not, and even more, part of an invisible minority group threaded to a colorful history. Often, it seems more deafies who use ASL know more about deaf history than deafies who don't, unless the latter happen to be well-educated. If I meet another deaf person who doesn't know any sign language, it doesn't stop me from communicating with her. Nor does it influence my judgment of that person. But it does produce a gap, one I'm conscious of, as it would with a monolingual and a bilingual speaker, the latter forced to accommodate the former with no language choices. I am at my best when I can code-switch in both ASL and English. Last edited by me_punctured; 04-21-2007 at 03:42 PM. |
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#182 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,163
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#183 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,163
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Look it up, dude. If you are so intent on advocating, I suggest to take the necessary stepts to educate yourself. They are all over the United States and Great Britain. You shouldn't have any trouble at all locating them.
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#185 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,163
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#186 (permalink) | |
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Always 1 beat off
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 3,008
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Thank you! |
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#187 (permalink) | |
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Az Monsoon Summer Lover!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Tucson
Posts: 4,236
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deaf and hoh community numbers 30 millions thereabouts.
while Deaf community numbers less than 1 millions thereabouts.
__________________
Boult I.T.M.F.A.I am a CI Borg, Proud to be and loving it!MYTHS AND LIES ABOUT CI / New Chat Rooms Social / Internet Explorer Users: Switch to Safari / Get a Mac Quote:
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#188 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,163
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Quote:
Sure. It's a sociological distinction. In the United States, there are more hearing people than there are deaf people, so the enculturation would demand that the Deaf culture not just adapt, but completely adopt the hearing perspective, as the hearing are dominant. Dominant culture has more sociological, political and economic poer than non-dominanat cultures. |
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#190 (permalink) | |
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Sun Whorshipper
![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland
Posts: 16,119
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
Maybe the oral deaf people will form a culture of their own but they will still be using spoken language which will place them as a part of the hearing culture. If the oral deaf people dont know ASL or any signing, it will be difficult for them to interact with deaf signers unless they learn. U cant expect deaf signers to start taking speech therapy classes or get CIs so they can adapt to meet the oral deaf people's communication needs. Hell, many of them took speech and lipreading classes growing up but were unable to master those skills. Many people, both deaf and hearing here keep saying that the hearing and deaf community need to come together..well, I am all for it but gotta learn ASL or some signing otherwise it is not gonna happen. I am so grateful for the many hearing people here who are taking ASL classes or learned it just because they want to even though they had no ties to the deaf community. It helps tremendously and I welcome them with open arms. I wouldnt be as welcoming to those who say they dont need to learn ASL. It is very difficult if not impossible for many deaf people to interact with people using spoken language freely.
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~Shel~ ![]() "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana |
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#191 (permalink) | |
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SxyPorkie
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,095
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#192 (permalink) | |
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SxyPorkie
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,095
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__________________
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#193 (permalink) | |
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Sun Whorshipper
![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland
Posts: 16,119
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
Another thing is that at deaf socials or events, I dont see oral deaf people there. Everyone, even hearing people, are signing whether it is ASL, PSE or SEE. U know that there is a rule in the deaf culture that if two hearing people who know sign language stop signing in front of deaf people and start chatting away in spoken language is considered rude? So, if oral deaf people who dont know sign and refuse to learn sign go to a deaf social and use spoken language to communicate with each other or to communicate with signers, they wont be really interacting with deaf signers freely, right? Either they will chat with other oral deaf people or with hearing people. If they come to deaf socials and explain that they never learned sign language but want to learn (like I did) then that is a different story.
__________________
~Shel~ ![]() "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana |
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#194 (permalink) | |
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So NOT a Princess!
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And I agree with you. Oral deafies are all " Oh it's so wonderful and glorious to be a part of the hearing world!" and then in their next breath, they start whining and complaining about the inequalities of oralism. The solution is SIMPLE oral deafies. If you want to be a part of the Deaf-world.............LEARN Sign and the culture! Sheesh, is that that hard to understand? |
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#196 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
First, Cloggy's daughter is being taught sign and second, I do not recall either of us saying that sign language was not needed. I am not going to repeat reasons we chose to raise our daughter orally but just say briefly, that our decision was one that was constantly reevaluated and reassessed. I think you should also know that many of my daughter's friends do know sign and that she is learning as well. Whether you or your friends think she is part of the deaf community or not, is something she cannot control but the reality is that she and her friends are deaf and share a bond with each other. If you cannot welcome these people into your community then the loss is yours, not theirs but they are definitely part of some deaf community. I am not going to repreat things I have said many times but just say that my daughter has always been around deaf people since she lost her hearing. I cannot change your perceptions or how you interpret things other than to say that the things you have attributed to me in your above post are not correct. Rick |
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#197 (permalink) | |
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Always 1 beat off
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 3,008
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#198 (permalink) | |
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Sun Whorshipper
![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland
Posts: 16,119
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-...hildren-9.html Every parent wants to communicate and signing with your deaf child should start as soon as possible. Having said this, there are now babies being inplanted soo early that they have not had any contact with either sign or speech. Parents of these children will focus on speech and will not see the need for sign since neither the child nor the parent knows it. I have seen other few posts with the comment "sign is no longer needed or no need for sign language" I understand where Cloggy is coming from with those comments but I can understand why he got attacked by other members because it seems like it is not important to expose the child to the deaf community. Rick, when I referred to u..I know u never said "not needing sign"..that was meant for Cloggy but u keep saying your daughter is oral and her friends are oral deaf....so it seems like there is no interest in being involved with the deaf community? Yes, it is your decision and everything but u have to understand why the deaf community in general wont consider them a part of the deaf community unless they want to learn ASL. My point of that is that it would sure suck if all deaf children of the future who are implanted never learned sign or be exposed to (probably a better word) to the signing community because it would create a gap. If their parents dont take their deaf children to deaf events and deaf socials for children because they felt there is no need for it, it would seem like a rejection to the signing community. Of course we dont want to reject them intentionally but it happens only simply due to the inability to communicate with each other freely. That was my whole point of it. We dont want that gap, u know, so how can deaf signers who cant lipread or speak if their lives depended on it interact with deaf non signers? The bonding will be difficult unless the deaf non signer say they want to learn ASL. If they say they dont want to nor need it, then it feels like a rejection...like I stated when I met that deaf oral guy in the store. What he said about sign language really gave me a bad feeling so I guess to describe that feeling would be as a "turn-off". I am not arguing with u or your decision but just to hope show why many people feel threatened by the concept of not needing sign if the CI works so well.
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~Shel~ ![]() "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana |
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#199 (permalink) | |
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SxyPorkie
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,095
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Quote:
There you go.... I completely agree with you.... YOu had been there as oralist.. you went through lots of frustrations... Then you learned the sign langauges... you feel like you finally broke the barrier??? I mean the barrier crumbled down....you now feel comfortable with sign langauges,,,I am sure you still speak to hearies,, is ok about it... I feel that you like sign langauges better.. Am I right???? you have good posting. My first langauges was ASL... at age of 5 I learned to speak... I was HOH... i feel more comfortable with ASL.....
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#200 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
I am not arguing with you either! Thanks for that post from Cloggy because it does help me to better understand what you are saying. Let me just step back and say two things as clear as I can. We have always involved our child with the deaf community from day one and have always viewed that as extremely impoartant. She has not grown up in a family that pretends she is not deaf. She was deaf before her ci and is still deaf with it but it does allow her to hear and has allowed her along with very good speech reading abilities, to speak. Second, frame of reference is very important, my daughter was implanted in 1989 at a time when there were less than 500 kids nationwide with cis. I have already told you of the horrible things that we, as her parents and she, as our child were called by the Deaf community. We had so called "Deaf leaders" such as Harlan Lane comment on our decision to implant our daughter even though he has never met either her or us. I already mentioned what the then NAD President said about our ci decision. So when you tell me that I should understand how some people may feel "threatned" by our decision, my only response is to tell them to "get over it" and realize that for us, it has and never will be about them and their community but always about what was and is best for our daughter. If they cannot understand nor accept that, then it really is their problem. Again, Shel not arguing with you, just trying to let you see where I am coming from ![]() Rick |
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#201 (permalink) | |
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Sun Whorshipper
![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland
Posts: 16,119
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
With ASL, I am completely relaxed and don't think about how well r others able to understand me or how much information iam getting from others. Yes, I still talk to hearies..such as my family and few old school friends but on a limited basis or mostly thru email. I have nothing against people who don't sign and I am ok with geting together with them on a one on one basis but in a group situation...I prefer not. I just feel a lot closer to people who sign whether they r hearing or not.
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~Shel~ ![]() "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana |
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