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Old 04-16-2007, 12:02 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by deafdyke View Post
Exactly!!!! I mean the pro oral folks tend to push Sign as a "crutch"........but in this day and age of out of control heath care costs, its now the oral deaf kids who are technology dependant, and can't function without technology. Someone who's bilingal in both ASL and speech CAN function without expensive technology!
And the serious pschological problems...........YES, I mean we have high rates of depression, and drug and alchohol abuse!
Higher rates of PTSD and diagnosed personality disorders and anxiety based disorders as well.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:43 PM   #152 (permalink)
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"For you to hold your daughter's success up as the standard for all parents of all deaf children is simply egotistical."

You know, I am simply not going to let you post a lie and get away with it.

I have never, ever used my daughter as the standard for all parents of all deaf children and you know that. Why you need to lie about it is troubling. Please show me the post wherein I stated that she is the standard.

I know too well the time, effort and devotion that goes into raising a deaf child, especially one with a ci. I know too well that despite all that time, effort, devotion and love, results vary. I know too well that we have been blessed to have our daughter do as well as she has.

I have been involved in the ci community for nearly two decades and have spoken to many parents considering the ci, I have written articles and spoken at seminars and conventions and not once have I ever said to anyone that if you get a ci then this is what will happen and certainly never that your child will achieve the same success with her ci as my daughter has.

But yes, I have encountered people who say that a child with a ci cannot (fill in the blank, there are so many) and when appropriate have said that is not true because my daughter can or does.

I do not care if you insult my grammar, spelling or intelligence nor do I care that you need to label me as defensive or insecure in order to make your points. I am a big boy and I also consider the source. However, do not make things up about me and especially my daughter.

There you go: making assumptions again. This began with you making the statement that I was anit-CI when NOTHING could be further from the truth. You take any remark that refers to limitation and turn it into an attack on those who have chosen CI for their children. You seem to be incapable of discussing the pros and cons of the options without responding as if disagreement is a personal attack on you.

I respond with insult because you respond with insult. Youare incapable of discussing an issue without including a personal attack. If you disagree with me, simply provide valid reasosning and data to support yourself. Do not make accusations or assumptions regarding me or my belief system.

I have no idea where you are getting this "making stuff up about me or my daughter". I have not fabricated anything. I have, however, voiced my opinion. That can in no way be contrued as being a lie. Obviously, you are satisfied with the choices you have made, and that is well and good. But you continue to limit yourself to one side of the coin. Yousay you are involved with other parents who are considering or have chosen CI for their children. I am as well. However, I am also involved with those who have made a different dicision in order to maintain a balanced perspective. Until you look at both sides of the issue, and in relation not just to your daughter, but to all deaf children, you have a skewed perspective. If you are, indeed so secure in your choice and so confident in you knowledge, why is it that you become so personally agressive toward those who point out inconsistencies?
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:55 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Speaking of alchohol abuse, when I was in high school, I felt that I needed to get at least a good buzz from alcohol at high school parties. I was usually making so many rounds to the beer key. My friends didn't drink at every party and they asked me why I needed to drink at every party we went to. I didn't know why but after my therapy seesions 10 years later, I came to the realization I was using alcohol to help me feel comfortable in large crowds and not worry abouit nobody understanding me nor me understanding them. I was lucky I didn't become a full-fledged aloholic by the time I graduated from high school. Luckily, in my senior year I made friends with this great group and they treated me no differently so I didn't drink at all during my senior year..well maybe prom and graduation. LOL!

Never touched drugs cuz I was tooo scared of them. Whew!
Thanks for sharing that, shel.. Its just another example of the issues that are tied to communication. Its not all about oral vs. ASL. It about the best way to give our deaf children a balance to prevent the psychological and social problems they are at risk for. ALL deaf children carry an increased risk.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:56 PM   #154 (permalink)
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That reminds me. The difference between academic reputation for Howard University (#88 on US News list of top national universities) and Gallaudet has always bugged me. It'd be nice if Gallaudet could build the academic mettle to make it to Howard's level for undergraduate education.

I'll hope for that.
You and I both, Endy!
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:08 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Jillio,

Your opinions and personal attacks are duly noted and as I said before, I will just consider the source. I do note however, that your failure to respond to my specific questions speaks volumes.
Have a nice day!
Rick
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:06 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Jillio,

Your opinions and personal attacks are duly noted and as I said before, I will just consider the source. I do note however, that your failure to respond to my specific questions speaks volumes.
Have a nice day!
Rick
I do believe that I have responded to the questions posed. The problem appears to be that I have not responded in the way that you wished. If you choose to view that as a personal attack, so be it.
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:13 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I have no problem that someone I do not know nor have never met does not agree with me. I realize that there is no one correct way to raise any child, even a deaf one.

However, since you asked, here is one question that you failed to answer:

"Please show me the post wherein I stated that she is the standard."

Hopefully, since it is technically not in the form of a question as it lacks a question mark, you will still be able to answer it.

"Knowledge is good"
Emil Faber
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:52 AM   #158 (permalink)
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Yes, I can answer it. Your refusal to understand that your daughter has reached a level of acievement that most deaf children don't--don't because they are not capable, bur because they are not being provided oppoertunity in the most condusive environment implies that you do not have a realistic understandingof the problems that continue to face the deaf child and the deaf adult inthis country. Your continual focus on CI as the solution demonstrates that you have a very understanding of the issues. This is based on any number of posts in any number of threads, and your insistence that anyone who voices a limitation of CI is anti CI.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:12 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Yes, I can answer it. Your refusal to understand that your daughter has reached a level of acievement that most deaf children don't--don't because they are not capable, bur because they are not being provided oppoertunity in the most condusive environment implies that you do not have a realistic understandingof the problems that continue to face the deaf child and the deaf adult inthis country. Your continual focus on CI as the solution demonstrates that you have a very understanding of the issues. This is based on any number of posts in any number of threads, and your insistence that anyone who voices a limitation of CI is anti CI.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:47 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:19 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Jillio,

You response does not surprise me: devoid of facts and comprised merely of erroneous statements and baseless assumptions. When you can come up with some facts, not unsubstantiated statements that you create to bolster your bogus assumptions, please let me know.


Rick
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:36 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Rick, hope you don't feel like we're all plieling on you, but very sadly your daughter is the exception. It's great that she's done that well, but most dhh kids do not get that level of involvement, or the choice whether or not to use Sign. I do wish there were a lot more oral parents like you. ....who decided on oral as a choice, rather then the default.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:00 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Rick, hope you don't feel like we're all plieling on you, but very sadly your daughter is the exception. It's great that she's done that well, but most dhh kids do not get that level of involvement, or the choice whether or not to use Sign. I do wish there were a lot more oral parents like you. ....who decided on oral as a choice, rather then the default.

DD,

Thanks for asking but don't worry, I'm doing fine. We may disagree on a few things...well most things, but you are always honest and above board.

I think what mattered most is that my wife never viewed our initial decisions as ones set in stone but she constantly re-evaluated and re-assessed them in order to determine what was best for our daughter.
Rick
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:10 AM   #164 (permalink)
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Kayla1234, don't take it personally.....I think shel is mostly venting... And I mean she's not a Sweetmind (ie extreme anti CI) She's NOT saying that there aren't sucess stories. Just that, just as with hearing aids, results vary enourmously across the board.
I guess too, that she,me and jillo are more targeting our comments towards the parents who are very audist. I've got a lot more to say, but I need to get to bed.......been a long day. deafdyke

Mind you, deafdyke There are too many huge oral militants here as well. You dont know nothing about me. I am not a Deaf militant since I was freaking ex deaf oralist if you mind after all those experiences I HAD for years and years. That is full of hogwash about having oral method rules only that these men are still use that kind of audist attitudes. Guess what I am not the only one who is against CI on these Deaf children who doesnt want it. Those deaf children have no way to stop their parents if you mind after all, the parents knew a deaf child doesnt want it. That's inhuman cruel treatment toward Deaf children. They give us impression that we must deal with a hearing world only that is bullshyte. They did not have any choices to prevent that happens. This is not the honorable awards for anyone to take over Deaf children s physical body that is usually become more double disabled as usual. SO BE IT because they do not have any faiths in Deaf children's natural abilities and adaptations. They are against their Deaf children 's wills.

Why dont you come up to me and face it with me instead of backstabbing on my back as u knew I dont come here since last June. I have counted many knives from you and others. (LOL) Guess what, I dont give a shyte about people 's thinking of me anymore because it doesnt matter anymore since I am not a horrible person like Beast 666. (LOL) Nice try, DeafDyke you think you know it all but NOT. So here I am.

Also, thank you SexyPorkie and few others for speaking it out. That was a nice of you and few others who did it.

I saw it Ricky aka Rick48 and CI pop and Gosnism aka Cloggy and his dishonest ghostwriter friend of Beast 666 so it tells me they are not being honest from a start. They have a huge nasty mind games with you all along as I saw the truth that they are taking advantage of you deaf people all along as i can see it in their own hearing words only after all, deaf oralists with a very negative attitude went all along with those Audism militants who are a huge disrespectful attacks deaf/hearing people with a positive outlook about Deaf children's needs that should come first.

Whats more I can see Cloggy and Rick48 are not being honest since they are actually avoiding to use Sign Language as much as they can since I have watched and read them closely for a long time. I immediately knew what are they up to for a long time. Their negative audist attitude shows me that they want their children must to have HEAR AND SPEAK ONLY from a start that I already saw it thru my Deaf eyes. I am not sorry for being so blunt because it ticks me off the way parents are trying to cover up their buns to pretend they use sign language a lot more than we know. However it s actually that they dont use it much and keep saying my CI child doesnt need or want to use Sign Language that is full of crapola.

Whats more Cloggy doesnt use ASL but other foreign language in his hometown. I truly remember he mentioned that there is no sign language in that area. So thats how I got the fishy feelings all along. NO one can read my deep thinking with the bottom of my heart. I knew the truth all along from a start that you dont know nothing.

Thats the way CI Representative s way of saying to those people out there that is why I said all adveristment shows that they are hearing as a latened deaf person as usual. Read many CI adveristment or website and read it closely and carefully, please. Then you might understand where I am coming from.

CI deaf children is not a hearing person. So be it! All they do is ability to hear many sounds like HA device but it doesnt mean they are able to hear everything with those devices like what hearing people can hear if you mind.

It s about time for someone woke up and see there is not full honest going on by these men from a start.

Thank you!
Sweetmind
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:20 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Sweetmind ... back again, and cursing and insulting people within a few paragraphs.
You're a wonderful example for Deaf culture...
I hope Deaf people will ask you to leave, because I think that you are embaressing them... But, I'll leave that to them..

Quote:
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.........................

Whats more Cloggy doesnt use ASL but other foreign language in his hometown. I truly remember he mentioned that there is no sign language in that area. So thats how I got the fishy feelings all along. NO one can read my deep thinking with the bottom of my heart. I knew the truth all along from a start that you dont know nothing.

...............
So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:21 AM   #166 (permalink)
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Yes, I can answer it. Your refusal to understand that your daughter has reached a level of acievement that most deaf children don't--don't because they are not capable, bur because they are not being provided oppoertunity in the most condusive environment implies that you do not have a realistic understandingof the problems that continue to face the deaf child and the deaf adult inthis country. Your continual focus on CI as the solution demonstrates that you have a very understanding of the issues. This is based on any number of posts in any number of threads, and your insistence that anyone who voices a limitation of CI is anti CI.
Thank you so much Jillo1! He has been doing that all along for almost ten years that has not bit changed in his own audist attiude in here and other deaf forums.. Believe it or Not!

What a relief to have you and Shel90 to be here!

Have a good day!
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:26 AM   #167 (permalink)
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So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!

NICE TRY Cloggy Leave SexyPorkie out of it because she has nothing to do with me or I dont speak with her for a long time since she had her heart attacks few times and ended it up in the hopsital. Stop attacking at SexyPorkie or anybody else who doesnt agree with you. yeah you lied about me as being SexyPorkie from a start. LA LA I wouldnt dare to use the term " sexy' for myself. Scoffs!

Anyway back to topic please!
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:01 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Sweetmind is back again?

Just behave yourself.
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:26 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Thank you so much Jillo1! He has been doing that all along for almost ten years that has not bit changed in his own audist attiude in here and other deaf forums.. Believe it or Not!

What a relief to have you and Shel90 to be here!

Have a good day!
Sweetmind
Sweetmind! Good to see you back and posting! Shel and I will keep trying, because its the deaf kids that we are concerned about. And the parents of deaf kids that come here looking for information. Stick around for a while!
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:29 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Jillio,

You response does not surprise me: devoid of facts and comprised merely of erroneous statements and baseless assumptions. When you can come up with some facts, not unsubstantiated statements that you create to bolster your bogus assumptions, please let me know.


Rick
My involvement with the Deaf Community, and sensitivity to the plight of the Deaf in the US gives me all the credibility I need. My assumptions are based not only on 20 yearss of involvement, but also extensive research doen in pursuit of my PhD. Obviously, you are far too intellectually lazy to do your own research and require the information to be spoon fed to you. Ih ave neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to educated those who are closed minded and incapable of learning.
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:30 PM   #171 (permalink)
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When a child is exposed to sign as their primary mode of communcation, the auditory centers in the brain process sign langauge as they would process audiory language in a hearing child. Auditory memory is stimulated through recognized morphemes in handshapes just the morphemes in oral language would be recognized through hearing.

You are right in that her conlcusions are based on her own interpretation of the data. However, there have been numerous studies done regarding auditory memory function in the field of cognitive psychology. And these are published studies, not simply research papers, which means that testing methods and data analysis, as well as particpant selection and research methods must comply with IRB standards, and must be reviewed by the board. I'd suggest you check out some of the very credible research done on this subject if you are truly interested.
Jillio, can you provide references or sources of this material and research. Thanks!
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:31 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Sweetmind ... back again, and cursing and insulting people within a few paragraphs.
You're a wonderful example for Deaf culture...
I hope Deaf people will ask you to leave, because I think that you are embaressing them... But, I'll leave that to them..



So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!
You think--how is it that you can judge what is embarrassing to the Deaf community when y0ou approach it from such a completely hearing perspective? I bet you're a big believer in Manifest Destiny as well.
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:43 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Jillio, can you provide references or sources of this material and research. Thanks!
Absolutely, rockdrummer. Give me over the weekend to sort through all of my books and papers and journals to provide you with that info.
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:55 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Please reread my statement. To make it a bit simpler, if the standards for reading at a 12th grade level is A for a hearing child, when the deaf child is measured using that standard, then her score is equal to or better than that of her hearing peers and is deemed a success. Therefore, when the score is equal to or better than that of her hearing peers, she is considered to be an exception to the results normally found for orally educated deaf children. More often standards are lowered and scores are maniluplated to indicate success. In other words, the oral deaf child is not functioning as well or better than her hearing peers, she is simply being judged by lowered standards. This propogates the idea that the deaf child's abilites are not as high as the hearing child's because we must lower the standards to identify them as successful.
Jillio, In another thread you said the standards should be different for deaf vs hearing kids. Other than lowering the standards how would you make them different? Are you talking about completly revamping the testing procedures for deaf kids?
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:21 PM   #175 (permalink)
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